What a wonderful read. I enjoyed it greatly. Thank you for introducing me to it.
1 - Most important! Did you enjoy the book? Why - or Why not?
I did, very much so. I found it a delightful romp and something I was in the mood for currently. The style and words used kept me reading -- the descriptions, particularly of the relatives, were wonderful I thought.
2 - The author makes up a number of words and expressions, such as sukebind and mollocking. Why do you think she does this, and how effective is it?
Not having a large vocabulary, I googled these at first.
I think it works well. It fitted in well to the overall style of the book.
3 - The story has a number of set-pieces, including Brother Amos' Preaching and The Counting. Which is your favourite?
They were all wonderfully described, but the trip to Amos' preaching and the preaching itself stick in my mind as favourites. In my youth I spent some time in a church obsessed with Hell -- it made me laugh.
4 - There are a number of unresolved ‘secrets’ at the end of the book. Did that affect your enjoyment of it?
No, but I do confess throughout I did want know he exact nature of them. But a bit of mystery is good.
5 - To what extent are the characters stereotypes? If they are, does it matter?
They are, and no. As Marama wrote, Reuben subverting the stereotype was interesting.
I found it not troubling as I read this from Flora's view, as her seeing these poor benighted souls in need of her help. And, thus, some exaggeration. I enjoyed picturing this family living together (well, partners in town) with all their eccentricities.
It's not as if the Starkadders haven’t had plenty of common sense directed at them over the years, courtesy of Mrs. Beetle; perhaps Flora is just more persistent.
No-one seems to have spotted that before Elfine’s wedding, Adam sings a smutty song that he’d learnt for the wedding of George I. George had actually married when he was only the Elector of Hanover, long before he came to the British throne; so just how old must Old Adam be? Better not ask, I suppose...
Sorry to be late to the show. January is one of my busiest months at work.
- Most important! Did you enjoy the book? Why - or Why not?
I loved the book. Parodies and satires always entertain me. I loved the spoof on the helpful character giving each person she meets exactly what they need.
2 - The author makes up a number of words and expressions, such as sukebind and mollocking. Why do you think she does this, and how effective is it?
It adds to the charm of the novel. Usually, you could figure out the meaning of the words based on context
3 - The story has a number of set-pieces, including Brother Amos' Preaching and The Counting. Which is your favourite?
The counting was probably my favourite. The matriarchs over the top behavior would make great cinema.
4 - There are a number of unresolved ‘secrets’ at the end of the book. Did that affect your enjoyment of it?
I think the unresolved secrets added to the charm of the novel/
5 - To what extent are the characters stereotypes? If they are, does it matter?
If it had not been for this book of the month topic, I would probably never have read Cold comfort Farm again, nor would I have read the whole Wikipedia page on stella Gibbons, and that would have been a shame because I would have missed a treat.
Thanks @Andras, I always enjoy the discussions when you lead them.
This is a bit wider than just being about Cold Comfort Farm, but on @SusanDoris 's recommendation I read the WIkipedia article of Gibbons. It was interesting, but the thing that struck me was she sounded a bit like Flora, which lead me to wondering if I would have liked Gibbons if I'd met her in real life. There are some authors like Elizabeth Gaskell that I'm pretty sure I'd get on with and other like Waugh that I probably wouldn't, though I like his writing anyway. I think not only wasn't I that keen on the book, but I probably wouldn't want to meet Gibbons herself more than once.
I hadn’t read the wiki page but I felt when I was reading the book that Flora was the author’s voice, she sounded authentic (I teach via distance learning so often never meet my students in the flesh but when I read their essays I feel like I get to know their personality, if you see what I mean). As I said in my review, I could relate to Flora and thought I would get on well with the author
There is a curious aftermath to this, which I have not been able to join in so far, being unable to find my copy, and comment on my mother's liking for it, her being brought up on a small farm in Sussex.
This evening I was watching Grantchester, which has moved beyond Runcie's original, when I was suddenly thrown into Cold Comfort Farm. There was the father preaching, there was the aged woman, who had seen something nasty in the hay loft (but kep quiet about it, until found out), there was the young man who had been mollocking with the daughter of the house. There was, also, the outsider who wanted to improve things (the new vicar in this case). It was not funny, though. And I think they rather maligned the Mennonites (and were they ever in this country dressed like the Amish?) But I would not be surprised if the authors had been researching in Gibbons.
There is a curious aftermath to this, which I have not been able to join in so far, being unable to find my copy, and comment on my mother's liking for it, her being brought up on a small farm in Sussex.
This evening I was watching Grantchester, which has moved beyond Runcie's original, when I was suddenly thrown into Cold Comfort Farm. There was the father preaching, there was the aged woman, who had seen something nasty in the hay loft (but kep quiet about it, until found out), there was the young man who had been mollocking with the daughter of the house. There was, also, the outsider who wanted to improve things (the new vicar in this case). It was not funny, though. And I think they rather maligned the Mennonites (and were they ever in this country dressed like the Amish?) But I would not be surprised if the authors had been researching in Gibbons.
The Grantchester books were written by James Runcie, the Archbishop’s son, so there’s always a positive CoE spin on things. I haven't seen this episode yet, but indeed I’d not expect the poor old Mennonites to be traduced as you say they were. Poor show!
I live in the village next to the real Grantchester and it’s always been far posher than my village of Trumpington (these days we’ve been swallowed up by Cambridge suburbs but we were once a stand-alone village). I’d certainly be surprised if anyone there dressed in Amish style in the 1950s, unless perhaps they were American visitors at the university to study.
The medieval word is Cantebrigge so it is not so surprising that Cant is Grant. (Cambridge people are Cantabrigian).
Just looked it up to remind myself and the river was originally the Granta not the Cam - the river’s name was changed to reflect the city’s changing name to Cam.
A chester is a fort though, not a bridge, perhaps it is similar to ford.
There is a curious aftermath to this, which I have not been able to join in so far, being unable to find my copy, and comment on my mother's liking for it, her being brought up on a small farm in Sussex.
This evening I was watching Grantchester, which has moved beyond Runcie's original, when I was suddenly thrown into Cold Comfort Farm. There was the father preaching, there was the aged woman, who had seen something nasty in the hay loft (but kep quiet about it, until found out), there was the young man who had been mollocking with the daughter of the house. There was, also, the outsider who wanted to improve things (the new vicar in this case). It was not funny, though. And I think they rather maligned the Mennonites (and were they ever in this country dressed like the Amish?) But I would not be surprised if the authors had been researching in Gibbons.
The Grantchester books were written by James Runcie, the Archbishop’s son, so there’s always a positive CoE spin on things. I haven't seen this episode yet, but indeed I’d not expect the poor old Mennonites to be traduced as you say they were. Poor show!
The amish are an offshoot of the Mennonites, but in this country, they are less radical. They are normal. We even have one on the ship.
Rather what I thought. From the evidence of the Mennonite hymnbook which had somehow found its way into our school piano stool. I suspect that the writers went for something they thought to be very unlikely to be extant, or litigious, or known to most of the audience. A pity they couldn't have been as inventive as Gibbons. There were plenty of limited range tin chapel congregations in Sussex, so I assume elsewhere as well. (One branch of my family was responsible for one of the chapels, but I don't know much about it. Presumable the one they attended started preaching something they didn't like. Still around last time I passed, though.) I came across another group while teaching whose behaviour would be more conducive to going off the rails, but they wouldn't have been that way back in the 50s.
“The hell-instructed Grocer
Has a temple made of tin,
And the ruin of good innkeepers
Is loudly urged therein;”
I didn’t realise when I first read The Flying Inn (aged about 12) that this was a hit at Dissenters and the closely-associated Temperence movement - with more than a hint of class war.
I have just remembered something I meant to mention. Charles is Flora's cousin I can't remember whether he is a 'distant' cousin or not, but I think it is interesting that Stella Gibbons appears to take it for granted that marrying one's cousin was quite usual. I think that has become much less common during the intervening years. I certainly have not heard mention of that for a long time. Any opinions on this?
First cousin marriage is legal in the UK, and in the 1870s appears to have been around 4%. In the twentieth century it dropped to be about 1%. Currently in the USA it is estimated to be sbout 0.1%.
The risk of birth defects appears to rise from 2% (in the general population) to 4% - about the same as the increase for a woman over 40.
I suspect it was a more general distant ‘cousin’ rather than a specific first cousin, unless that is supposed to be another parody, perhaps of her class.
(When I was an eye nurse in London I looked after several babies being investigated for serious genetic eye defects which were thought to be caused by consanguineous marriage)
It depends on the community - I know of localised isolated rural communities and specific groups* where consanguineous relationships are common. Where the community group is so small it's practically impossible to not marry a cousin
Thank you for your comments and for the statistical and personal experience info - most interesting. I imagine that the rapid expansion of means of travel since pre-WWII plus the similar expansion of communication must have a lot to do with the drop in numbers of cousin marriages.
Other ethnic and religious groups might account for whatever is a larger proportion of current first cousin marriages. I do not of course know.
However, I do remember some years ago there was an item on the radio about a group of Orthodox Jews in London where inter-marriage had caused some quite serious health worries.
thank you. May I ask whether this is a subject in which you have some particular interest, or is it that you are obviously very good at quickly finding things out on the internet - in which case you have my admiration!
Orthodox Jews were one of the groups I was going to refer to above, hence the asterisk, then rethought doing so.
As recently as twenty odd years ago I went to training on supporting traveller communities in Somerset, GEST* training for what was one of the biggest minorities in the county. One of the speakers was a paediatrician with an interest in autosomal recessive abnormalities caused by consanguinity. As well as the incidence of cousin marriages in the Romany and traveller communities, there were known to be various local pockets of intermarriage in small communities in the area. At the time I was working in one and had grown up in another.
In the village where I grew up, there was a saw that Leggs should not marry Foots; that was because the families were so interrelated that the resultant children were usually born with autosomal recessive abnormalities. Occasionally this was how adulterous relationships were discovered.
This was very much Hardy country, which were possibly other books that Cold Comfort Farm is mimicking.
*not sure what it meant, but at the time it was the education training funded across the country to support ethnic minorities.
Charles Fairford is Flora Poste's second cousin: he is "studying" to be a parson. In the 1995 TV film he was played by Christopher Bowen. (BWT fantastic casting in that film, Rupert Sewell as Seth and Stephen Fry as Mr Mybug )
Thank you – that was most interesting. Bearing in mind your work was so recent, do you think that awareness of the problem will hav lessened the incidents of inter-marriage?
TheOrganist
Thank you – in that case I am happy to know that Flora and charles will have become a married couple, although I do not approve of his choice of career!
I had not read the book prior to 1995, so did not see the TV film. Just to think of Stephen Fry in the role of Mr Mybug is enough to raise a smile!
I remember that in 'The Nine Tailors' the Vicar's wife remarks that as so many of the young men in the village now possessed motor-cycles there would be fewer idiot children born.
Comments
1 - Most important! Did you enjoy the book? Why - or Why not?
I did, very much so. I found it a delightful romp and something I was in the mood for currently. The style and words used kept me reading -- the descriptions, particularly of the relatives, were wonderful I thought.
2 - The author makes up a number of words and expressions, such as sukebind and mollocking. Why do you think she does this, and how effective is it?
Not having a large vocabulary, I googled these at first.
I think it works well. It fitted in well to the overall style of the book.
3 - The story has a number of set-pieces, including Brother Amos' Preaching and The Counting. Which is your favourite?
They were all wonderfully described, but the trip to Amos' preaching and the preaching itself stick in my mind as favourites. In my youth I spent some time in a church obsessed with Hell -- it made me laugh.
4 - There are a number of unresolved ‘secrets’ at the end of the book. Did that affect your enjoyment of it?
No, but I do confess throughout I did want know he exact nature of them. But a bit of mystery is good.
5 - To what extent are the characters stereotypes? If they are, does it matter?
They are, and no. As Marama wrote, Reuben subverting the stereotype was interesting.
I found it not troubling as I read this from Flora's view, as her seeing these poor benighted souls in need of her help. And, thus, some exaggeration. I enjoyed picturing this family living together (well, partners in town) with all their eccentricities.
No-one seems to have spotted that before Elfine’s wedding, Adam sings a smutty song that he’d learnt for the wedding of George I. George had actually married when he was only the Elector of Hanover, long before he came to the British throne; so just how old must Old Adam be? Better not ask, I suppose...
- Most important! Did you enjoy the book? Why - or Why not?
I loved the book. Parodies and satires always entertain me. I loved the spoof on the helpful character giving each person she meets exactly what they need.
2 - The author makes up a number of words and expressions, such as sukebind and mollocking. Why do you think she does this, and how effective is it?
It adds to the charm of the novel. Usually, you could figure out the meaning of the words based on context
3 - The story has a number of set-pieces, including Brother Amos' Preaching and The Counting. Which is your favourite?
The counting was probably my favourite. The matriarchs over the top behavior would make great cinema.
4 - There are a number of unresolved ‘secrets’ at the end of the book. Did that affect your enjoyment of it?
I think the unresolved secrets added to the charm of the novel/
5 - To what extent are the characters stereotypes? If they are, does it matter?
Satire and spoof thrive on stereotypes.
The thread’s still open, of course, but I’d just like to thank everyone who either contributed or lurked.
This is a bit wider than just being about Cold Comfort Farm, but on @SusanDoris 's recommendation I read the WIkipedia article of Gibbons. It was interesting, but the thing that struck me was she sounded a bit like Flora, which lead me to wondering if I would have liked Gibbons if I'd met her in real life. There are some authors like Elizabeth Gaskell that I'm pretty sure I'd get on with and other like Waugh that I probably wouldn't, though I like his writing anyway. I think not only wasn't I that keen on the book, but I probably wouldn't want to meet Gibbons herself more than once.
That's kind - thank you!
And my own thanks go to everyone who took part in an interesting and informative discussion!
Annie
This evening I was watching Grantchester, which has moved beyond Runcie's original, when I was suddenly thrown into Cold Comfort Farm. There was the father preaching, there was the aged woman, who had seen something nasty in the hay loft (but kep quiet about it, until found out), there was the young man who had been mollocking with the daughter of the house. There was, also, the outsider who wanted to improve things (the new vicar in this case). It was not funny, though. And I think they rather maligned the Mennonites (and were they ever in this country dressed like the Amish?) But I would not be surprised if the authors had been researching in Gibbons.
The Grantchester books were written by James Runcie, the Archbishop’s son, so there’s always a positive CoE spin on things. I haven't seen this episode yet, but indeed I’d not expect the poor old Mennonites to be traduced as you say they were. Poor show!
Just looked it up to remind myself and the river was originally the Granta not the Cam - the river’s name was changed to reflect the city’s changing name to Cam.
A chester is a fort though, not a bridge, perhaps it is similar to ford.
The amish are an offshoot of the Mennonites, but in this country, they are less radical. They are normal. We even have one on the ship.
Has a temple made of tin,
And the ruin of good innkeepers
Is loudly urged therein;”
I didn’t realise when I first read The Flying Inn (aged about 12) that this was a hit at Dissenters and the closely-associated Temperence movement - with more than a hint of class war.
The risk of birth defects appears to rise from 2% (in the general population) to 4% - about the same as the increase for a woman over 40.
(When I was an eye nurse in London I looked after several babies being investigated for serious genetic eye defects which were thought to be caused by consanguineous marriage)
Thank you for your comments and for the statistical and personal experience info - most interesting. I imagine that the rapid expansion of means of travel since pre-WWII plus the similar expansion of communication must have a lot to do with the drop in numbers of cousin marriages.
Other ethnic and religious groups might account for whatever is a larger proportion of current first cousin marriages. I do not of course know.
However, I do remember some years ago there was an item on the radio about a group of Orthodox Jews in London where inter-marriage had caused some quite serious health worries.
One expert on the subject said the solution is not banning, but providing the necessary information - as is done, in fact, for older mothers.
thank you. May I ask whether this is a subject in which you have some particular interest, or is it that you are obviously very good at quickly finding things out on the internet - in which case you have my admiration!
As recently as twenty odd years ago I went to training on supporting traveller communities in Somerset, GEST* training for what was one of the biggest minorities in the county. One of the speakers was a paediatrician with an interest in autosomal recessive abnormalities caused by consanguinity. As well as the incidence of cousin marriages in the Romany and traveller communities, there were known to be various local pockets of intermarriage in small communities in the area. At the time I was working in one and had grown up in another.
In the village where I grew up, there was a saw that Leggs should not marry Foots; that was because the families were so interrelated that the resultant children were usually born with autosomal recessive abnormalities. Occasionally this was how adulterous relationships were discovered.
This was very much Hardy country, which were possibly other books that Cold Comfort Farm is mimicking.
*not sure what it meant, but at the time it was the education training funded across the country to support ethnic minorities.
Thank you – that was most interesting. Bearing in mind your work was so recent, do you think that awareness of the problem will hav lessened the incidents of inter-marriage?
TheOrganist
Thank you – in that case I am happy to know that Flora and charles will have become a married couple, although I do not approve of his choice of career!
I had not read the book prior to 1995, so did not see the TV film. Just to think of Stephen Fry in the role of Mr Mybug is enough to raise a smile!
Bro James
Thank you – a very useful skill in today’s world!