created by God

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Comments

  • But there is no "For eternity", under Hawking's rubric. There is nothing that could be said to endure.
  • I wonder if it can be said that music endures? I wonder whether there are harmonies in nature anywhere else but on Earth; the answer must, I would say, be probably, since wind blowing through holes against some kind of solid background, somewhere in the vastness of the universe, is likely. If it is to be observed in any way, then music needs some kind of species that notices.
  • But there is no "For eternity", under Hawking's rubric. There is nothing that could be said to endure.

    Aye, but he was only talking this hearbeat universe. Eternity is rational. And full. And growing.
  • I think that was one of Hawking's ideas, that there is no beginning or before, since they involve time, and time is of the universe. It produces an odd effect, of no before or after, until there is.

    Time is of the universe. Of course. The universe was created, and with that creation came time (as did the laws of physics, etc.). However, the Creator is not subject to His creation. Beginning and end which are a function of time, are meaningless when discussing God, as He is not a part of His creation. This is why God describes Himself as the beginning and the end. He just was, is, and always will be.
  • I think that was one of Hawking's ideas, that there is no beginning or before, since they involve time, and time is of the universe. It produces an odd effect, of no before or after, until there is.

    Time is of the universe. Of course. The universe was created, and with that creation came time (as did the laws of physics, etc.). However, the Creator is not subject to His creation. Beginning and end which are a function of time, are meaningless when discussing God, as He is not a part of His creation. This is why God describes Himself as the beginning and the end. He just was, is, and always will be.

    Any time I bring this up when referring to questions of God's omniscience, it gets shouted down quite vehemently. It's as if some people have decided that God's omniscience requires him to know BEFORE we do something, which forces us to do it, and the idea of God being outside of time ruins their conclusion so can't be allowed to stand.
  • I think that was one of Hawking's ideas, that there is no beginning or before, since they involve time, and time is of the universe. It produces an odd effect, of no before or after, until there is.

    Time is of the universe. Of course. The universe was created,
    That is a huge, huge assertion to make. Using the passive voice of the verb clearly implies an agency of some sort. I am interested to know why and how you make that claim without the qualification of 'I believe that..'
    Intrrested in hearing the answer, not in criticising it.
  • There have always been universes, therefore there has always been time. Not on the same string of beads necessarily at all obviously. And God's omniscience is of that which is knowable. Absolute reality isn't. It's meaningless. There ain't no such thing to be known. Like the future.
  • I think that was one of Hawking's ideas, that there is no beginning or before, since they involve time, and time is of the universe. It produces an odd effect, of no before or after, until there is.

    Time is of the universe. Of course. The universe was created, and with that creation came time (as did the laws of physics, etc.). However, the Creator is not subject to His creation. Beginning and end which are a function of time, are meaningless when discussing God, as He is not a part of His creation. This is why God describes Himself as the beginning and the end. He just was, is, and always will be.

    I think you're just straying beyond Hawking a teeny bit. As SD said, not sure what "was created" means. Oh, God, I get it, no evidence.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    edited February 15
    SusanDoris wrote: »
    I wonder if it can be said that music endures? I wonder whether there are harmonies in nature anywhere else but on Earth; the answer must, I would say, be probably, since wind blowing through holes against some kind of solid background, somewhere in the vastness of the universe, is likely. If it is to be observed in any way, then music needs some kind of species that notices.

    From harmony, from heavenly harmony, this universal frame began......
  • Like all the other infinite eternity of universes?
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