Fucking Guns

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Comments

  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    If the cop was off-duty, why did he have a gun? And if he was stupid enough not to realise that the gentleman had paid for his sweets, how did he get to be a cop in the first place?
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I did my time working late nights in a servo. I reckon if someone pulled a gun in my store I would have freaked too.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    The off-duty cop was evidently in street clothes. He's lucky the clerk didn't pull out a gun. Here, convenience stores are targets for robbers.

    And, IMHO, even if the man *had* been stealing items (particularly one pack of mints!), a gun would be a total over-reaction, unless the man was armed. If the man had been robbing the register and/or threatening the clerk, which probably would involve a weapon, displaying a gun might have been a more sensible approach.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth 8th Day Host, Mystery Worship Editor
    Piglet wrote: »
    If the cop was off-duty, why did he have a gun?

    They usually keep their guns on their persons at all times just in case they happen to stumble upon an outrageously heinous crime in progress, such as someone putting a candy bar that he has already paid for into his pocket.
  • Piglet wrote: »
    If the cop was off-duty, why did he have a gun?

    They usually keep their guns on their persons at all times just in case they happen to stumble upon an outrageously heinous crime in progress, such as someone putting a candy bar that he has already paid for into his pocket.
    But, it wasn't just someone putting a candy bar they'd already paid for into his pocket. I've seen the video, there's a very important fact that statement misses out. It was a Hispanic man putting a candy bar in his pocket. If he'd been black the gun would have been used.

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    People with testosterone surfeit syndrome should not carry guns.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    The statistics strongly suggest that anyone with systematic estrogen deficit should not have guns.
  • The statistics strongly suggest that no-one should have guns.

    But, no one cares about statistics.
  • Buena Park Police Chief Corey Sianez shared the Orange County Register article in a Facebook post Friday, writing: “The video of the incident clearly shows our officer drawing his gun, but not pointing it, at a subject he allegedly believed was committing a theft.”

    Chief Sianez expects his OFF-DUTY officers to be ready to use deadly force to stop the theft of one roll of Mentos. So much for serving and protecting. Do we need to have yet another conversation about the relative value of life vs. stuff?
  • Yes. Clearly we do.
  • Oliver North? Really?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    People with testosterone surfeit syndrome should not carry guns.

    I wonder if anyone's ever done a systematic study of male cops for something like that, or hormone levels in general and how quickly they change? There's a condition where an extra chromosome causes men with it to be violent. (When you consider that Down Syndrome is caused by an extra chromosome...)
  • Genetics are more complicated than that. If you feel angry all the time and are aggressive, your physiology begins to change and your hormonal balance is altered. Thus more hormones associated with stress and aggression will result. The genetics aren't the cause, they're the foundation.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    edited May 2018
    Oliver North? Really?

    The incredibly ridiculous and astoundingly stupid are the new normal.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    NP--
    Genetics are more complicated than that. If you feel angry all the time and are aggressive, your physiology begins to change and your hormonal balance is altered. Thus more hormones associated with stress and aggression will result. The genetics aren't the cause, they're the foundation.

    It's "XYY syndrome" (Wikipedia). The "History" section includes info on the aggression question, studies, brutal attitudes and things done to boys with XYY, etc. Lots of technical info, but that's way over my head.

    See also "XYY Syndrome" (NORD - National Organization for Rare Disorders)
    In some cases, affected individuals develop behavioral problems such as an explosive temper, hyperactivity, impulsivity, defiant actions, or, in some cases, antisocial behavior. There is a higher rate of attention deficit and hyperactivity disorder and a smaller increased risk for having an autism spectrum disorder.

    NOTE: Skimming those and some other things: it was thought to be the way I said; professional opinions have mostly changed; but some professionals still hold the older opinion.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    The right gun laws don't stop tragedy. Seven people were found shot dead today near Margaret River in Western Australia. It's probably a murder-suicide involving two Grandparents, their daughter and four children. Its our worst mass-shooting since Port Arthur in 1996. I can't get Dylan's Hollis Brown out of my head.

    Report
  • Seven dead in a murder-suicide is, as it should be, a tragedy worthy of reporting in international news. The problem is when something like that is just an everyday occurrence that rarely makes the front page of the local rag.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    The right gun laws don't stop tragedy. Seven people were found shot dead today near Margaret River in Western Australia.
    But they make it much less frequent. How many mass shootings in Australia so far this year? How many in the United States? Get it?
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Seven dead in a murder-suicide is, as it should be, a tragedy worthy of reporting in international news. The problem is when something like that is just an everyday occurrence that rarely makes the front page of the local rag.

    Seriously? C'mon. Where is it that 7 dead in a murder-suicide doesn't make the front page of the local paper? Someone was shot, not fatally, at a high school out in the desert NE of Los Angeles today, and right now it's on the front page of the LA Times website and the Long Beach Press-Telegram website. Long Beach is a couple hours' drive from where this happened; LA is only a little bit closer.

    Gun violence is in the news here every fucking day.
  • Look up the word "hyperbole" sometime.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth 8th Day Host, Mystery Worship Editor
    I've said it before -- there are three things you can count on seeing on the morning newscast each and every day here in Phoenix. One of them is that someone got shot the night before. It is so commonplace it is merely reported without comment or discussion.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Look up the word "hyperbole" sometime.

    If we were all blase about it, your figure of speech would have worked.
  • "Guns and sex in the same sentence", said Sigmund.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Look up the word "hyperbole" sometime.

    When I was a kid, I used to pronounce this word Hyperbowl. I really wish there was a hyper bowl, like a Rose bowl.

    And yeah, I know there are many more shootings in the USA Mousethief. I'm not calling for gun law reform, I'm lamenting their deaths. In my country its domestic violence that often needs addressing through law reform and other reforms like sentencing practices, availability of services and community education. It looks like domestic violence might be the relevant reform factor here, but the police are still investigating. I'm assuming the Grandfather was the shooter and that his guns were lawfully at the premises. It's a rural area and I think he was a farmer.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited May 2018
    I'm sorry, "Gun laws don't stop tragedy" is not hyperbole (look it up). It's just stupid.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    mousethief wrote: »
    I'm sorry, "Gun laws don't stop tragedy" is not hyperbole (look it up). It's just stupid.

    I suspect the alleged hyperbole is referring to the non-remarkable-ness of gun deaths in 'Merika.
  • Piglet wrote: »
    If the cop was off-duty, why did he have a gun?

    They usually keep their guns on their persons at all times just in case they happen to stumble upon an outrageously heinous crime in progress, such as someone putting a candy bar that he has already paid for into his pocket.
    But, it wasn't just someone putting a candy bar they'd already paid for into his pocket. I've seen the video, there's a very important fact that statement misses out. It was a Hispanic man putting a candy bar in his pocket. If he'd been black the gun would have been used.

    I went to the convenience store yesterday, handed over $40, and without even thinking about it, pocketed my items while waiting for my change, while being Hispanic AND while wearing a fricking hoodie. Fortunately, there were no hyper-reactive ultra-paranoid USA cops around, but I did feel a frisson* of "Holy Shit, if I was back in the USA I might be dead now."

    *a sudden strong feeling of excitement or fear
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    ... I did feel a frisson of "Holy Shit, if I was back in the USA I might be dead now."
    And that's a feeling nobody should get while buying a bar of chocolate and waiting for the change, whether they're black, white, Hispanic or pink with purple polka-dots.

    The more of these horror-stories I hear about, the sorrier I feel for our neighbours to the south - you really are living in a ghastly dystopia.
  • RooK wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I'm sorry, "Gun laws don't stop tragedy" is not hyperbole (look it up). It's just stupid.

    I suspect the alleged hyperbole is referring to the non-remarkable-ness of gun deaths in 'Merika.
    Indeed. And, I know that local (at least) media do cover gun crime in the US - we've had many such reports shared on this thread (and the predecessor on the Old Ship) over the years. And, other gun deaths such as suicides. Since it should be obvious to anyone who's followed these threads for a while that US media do cover gun deaths, a statement from someone who knows that to the effect that they don't should be obvious hyperbole.

    Though, it certainly seems like the reports of so many gun deaths rarely progresses beyond mere reporting to initiate wide ranging discussion in society, the media and at all levels of government into what can be done to reduce the frequency of these tragic events. An impression that @Amanda B Reckondwyth also appears to share with his comment that "It is so commonplace it is merely reported without comment or discussion."
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Alan--

    Re hyperbole:

    Over the years, we American Shipmates have had a great many serious remarks like that thrown at us and our country...along with insults, vilification, fury, and a lot of "ewww, ick". Particularly on this topic.

    So intentional hyperbole can be hard to detect.

    And the whole thing is wearying.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    RooK wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I'm sorry, "Gun laws don't stop tragedy" is not hyperbole (look it up). It's just stupid.

    I suspect the alleged hyperbole is referring to the non-remarkable-ness of gun deaths in 'Merika.

    I wasn't responding to that.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    I'm sorry, "Gun laws don't stop tragedy" is not hyperbole (look it up). It's just stupid.

    In Australia its an obvious truth. I posted a story about a tragedy in Australia in a thread called "Fucking Guns" and I am commenting about the Australian situation. In our situation, tragedies like these need to be looked at not from the perspective of gun control but from the perspective of domestic violence. I am assuming that the family were shot by the Grandfather using his lawfully owned and stored guns. That is not yet established publicly. We need to examine, I think, the availability of domestic violence services to rural people, and the availability of emergency accommodation. It's three hours drive from Margaret River to the nearest city, Perth (according to google maps), and I reckon that's where the nearest Womens Shelter will be. But I live on the other side of the country and have never visited the area, so I'm not sure. Gun laws are not the main focus, but rather the causes of violent deaths.

    How could I not know that in America (I think you're American mousethief), you are having a continuing argument about guns, and powerful political forces are arrayed against sensible gun control. I understand that it is not the time to look at a truth in America that will only be worth saying once you have dealt with the primary issue: access to military grade weapons. We did that back in 1996, and if I have my timing right, so did you when Bill Clinton banned assault weapons. So we have the luxury now of being able to look at violence through a different lens.

    If you think that saying "Gun laws don't stop tragedy" is stupid in an Australian context, please put your argument. My suspicion is that you haven't even turned your mind to my context. I invite you to do so. You might find it useful.
  • edited May 2018
    Piglet wrote: »
    .The more of these horror-stories I hear about, the sorrier I feel for our neighbours to the south - you really are living in a ghastly dystopia.

    The La Loche (Saskatchewan) shooter was sentenced this week. A 17 year old got a gun, went to a home and shot two brothers, and then went to school and shot and killed two teachers, seriously wounding 7 others. It happens here too. Just not very often. The prior one which comes to mind is Taber (Alberta) in 1999 where one person was killed.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I'm sorry, "Gun laws don't stop tragedy" is not hyperbole (look it up). It's just stupid.

    In Australia its an obvious truth.

    Of course it's an obvious truth. It's a fucking tautology. All tautologies are true, by definition.

    My "argument" is this: it's the wrong question. Of course no individual gun tragedy that slips past the gun control laws was not stopped by the laws. That's rather tautological and therefore worthless as concerns precautions, policy, etc. It's just so much noise, and the sort of noise used by the right to shut down discussion of potential gun laws.

    The question is, do gun laws make tragedies less frequent?
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    that wasn't the question I was asking. I was lamenting, you dickhead.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    that wasn't the question I was asking. I was lamenting, you dickhead.

    Which fucking board do you think you're on? In the context of this board, your comments are most obviously interpreted as a gauntlet thrown down in the face of bothering with gun control legislation. If you meant for us to recognize that you were merely sad, I'm afraid that your telepathic communication failed.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    that wasn't the question I was asking.
    Then you were asking the wrong question, dickhead. Otherwise, what RooK said.
  • TwilightTwilight Shipmate
    RooK wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    that wasn't the question I was asking. I was lamenting, you dickhead.

    Which fucking board do you think you're on? In the context of this board, [etc]

    Has it come to this? Any remark not part of the official group-think is a declaration of war?
    It's just so much noise,

    What has become just so much noise is the endless repetition of phrases like, "They were arrested for sitting while black?" Which was clever the first time someone in the Black Lives Matter movement used it, but is now trite and often just plain wrong, particularly when they were actually arrested for refusing to obey the police.

    These two attitudes; (1) that we must all be together on the extreme left in every one of our opinions and (2) that cute liberal sound bites are all that need be said about any event, stifle any interesting discussion.

  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    I am saddened that I cannot talk about Australian issues on this thread without being interpreted as attacking a political position in the United States. I know I talk allot about American politics, but it was pretty obvious from my post that I was talking about and lamenting a mass shooting in Australia. I urge Mousethief and Rook to take off their stars and stripes blinders, or just ignore posts about other countries. Mousethief, I regret calling you a dickhead.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Twilight, Simon Toad - fuck both of you.

    There are no blinders involved here, you're just both incredibly fucking stupid. We are motoring along in a continuing conversation about gun violence and the need for legislation. Then Simon Toad says that legislation doesn't work. This is a valid albeit volatile engagement with the thread, and it was treated as such. Except that then Simon Toad then squealed that this was not what he was talking about, instead claiming that he was actually meaning to lament the tragedy in OZ. He got the context fucking wrong, and now blaming others for his error. Fuck him, and anybody who expects others to psychically recognize a topic shift using language that is part of the original topic.

    Here's a hint: if you want to talk about something else, have a different fucking conversation, moron.

    And Twilight doesn't like contemporary use of language. Well, bless her heart.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    You were talking about Oliver fucking North two days before I posted. There was no continuing conversation. It's a catch-all fucking thread about fucking guns. You'd make a great recruit to Trump's new branch of the military Rook, because on this issue you're a goddam SPACE CADET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Oh gods, where is the cracking up smiley when I need it?

    https://emilyspostsdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/cracking-myself-up.gif?w=604
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    Hmmm...one can say many things about Rook...but, in all the years I've been aboard, I've never seen Rook display space-cadetness.

    Possibly reptilian overlord, mixed with a Klingon pirate who hasn't eaten any gach (food, but you don't want to know what it is) in 5 years.

    But no, not spacey.
  • Statements about gun-control laws not preventing violence are well worth derisive comments. Not least because how often they're wheeled out in opposition to gun-control - most recently by someone with a claim to the title President of the United States in regard to a spate of knife attacks in London.

    It's also true that gun-control is not a panacea that will prevent all ills. In regard to something like domestic violence we have much further to go, and gun-control is largely irrelevant to that - guns mean events become more tragic, but it doesn't make someone getting punched OK just because they weren't shot.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    tragedy Alan, not preventing tragedy.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    tragedy Alan, not preventing tragedy.

    Your posts are a tragedy of confused intent. Perhaps you and your microscopic brain would care to post your lament in All Saints. Here, in the Hell board, we're going to argue enthusiastically about the hows, the whys, and the whats. Except for Alan; he's too smart to need much enthusiasm to destroy lesser participants - like that calm spine-snapper he applied above.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    It sounds like you want Purgatory. My lament is of the angry, clothes-tearing variety. I just cloak it under a thin veneer of calm.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Gosh. Please mister, can you explain to me how the different boards work, so that I can finally figure them out?

    Maybe one day, I'll even be able to brag about a veneer of calm two posts after using all-caps and a score of exclamation points.

    Moron.
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    Yeah, it's weird isn't it. You seemed to be saying that hell was the place for debate, and you're an administrator. So, you're saying something that's only partially correct, and you're in a position to know that it is only partially correct. That's not very nice. But I guess it is hell, and if you want to throw your weight around, I suppose that's OK.

    What I did a few posts up was attempt to defuse the situation by making a humorous insult. I expected one back. I'm disappointed in you Rook. I think I have misunderstood you.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth 8th Day Host, Mystery Worship Editor
    Do either of you happen to own a gun?
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