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Aging Parents

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  • Sarasa wrote: »
    I've heard a lot about her GP over the years but not met him before, he was lovely and I can see why she likes him. He did the MMSE test and mum scored 26 so well within normal. I thought she'd do that as she is good at answering simple questions, I think you have to be with her for some time to see how confused she can be. The GP did order blood and urine tests though after reading my letter about our concerns.
    Exactly, Sarasa - she's with the doctor who is male and whom she likes. When the Dowager did that test Dr. B gave her a higher score than I personally would have done - 'what season is it?' 'HIGH summer' in late September when she sat there in a coat and two jumpers! - but I think they save their most dotty behaviours for us.

    Would she sign a form to allow the GP to speak to you about her, Sarasa? I found that useful before she went into care.

    Piglet and cliffdweller - you are so right, with the proviso that if you are 'with it' enough to choose to go, and to choose the facility, things could be different. But, no-one ever chooses to go, so the element of coercion is always present. A lovely staff member at Waitrose told me once that her mother was in a home where her own daughter (this lady's sister) was Matron, and every morning she would go in to see the old lady, and every morning this old lady would say she wanted to die - 'open the window and I'll throw myself out'. So, at least the Dowager doesn't do that!

    Mrs. S, grateful for small mercies


  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    After I'd written my previous post the GP surgery phoned up. I'd mentioned in my note that we had LPA and enclosed a photocopy of the first page as 'proof'. They wanted me to email the whole thing over which I did. Hopefully they'll contact me or my brother if they have any concerns.
    When it comes to care homes I'm missing Uncle Pete and his view from the inside as it were. :cry:
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    edited March 2018
    Re the comments about nursing homes triggering a decline in interest. My father is living at home, fully compos mentis, still driving etc, but I fear this shutting down of interest is happening to him.

    At the last funeral he attended he said that as soon as he stood for the second hymn, he felt light-headed. He stood for all five verses in a state of increasing anxiety that he was going to faint. I asked him why he didn't just sit down, but he didn't feel this was an option - it would be disrespectful, what would people think? I heard this story on three consecutive visits, and I know he told my brother several times too. My brother and I both told him he should just have sat down.

    But now I fear that he won't go to the next funeral on the basis that he might feel light headed again, and won't countenance sitting down. The fact is that he didn't faint, nor has he fainted recently, but he thought he "might". I'm not suggesting that funerals are the highlight of his social calendar, but if he stops that sort of social interaction it will make a difference.

    His life seems to be contracting and I don't really understand why. He seems to think that if he can't do something as well as he could five years ago, when he was still very active and able to e.g. go hill walking, he won't do it at all.
  • His life seems to be contracting and I don't really understand why. He seems to think that if he can't do something as well as he could five years ago, when he was still very active and able to e.g. go hill walking, he won't do it at all.

    This.

    So true, NEQ. I think it's another way of looking at the fact that the elderly (she says, generalising wildly) tend not to make the best of things. 'It isn't as good as it used to be, or as it is for you, so I shall complain'. The idea of 'counting your blessings', i.e. they have a roof over their head, they can afford to pay for help so they don't have to live in grime (or poverty) or worry about their heating bills - seems to pass many of them by completely and I include the Dowager in this.

    Culminating in my MiL, who needed a stick to go out, so refused to go out even with someone else because only old people used sticks. She was only 80 at the time :grimace:

    Mrs. S, using a walking pole now, to get accustomed to it!

  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    I must say, Dad isn't complaining much, if he was I think I'd challenge him on it. He is still complaining about some things (I was one of a group of volunteers who got a buffet lunch paid for by the Council last week, which he felt was a Waste of Taxpayers Money) and he is still complaining about Other People, but he really doesn't complain about his own situation.
  • Lily PadLily Pad Shipmate
    Tell your dad that I said that a small glass of water or eating a small piece of fruit just before a funeral will solve the problem perfectly. (And no, not enough to make him need to take a bathroom break during the funeral which would be mortifying!) And tell him to carry an unwrapped mint in his pocket if he feels that way again. That will fix it too. Speak authoritatively so that he knows it will cure the trouble. :)

    Seriously though, I have gone from having unseen problems with accessing public things to walking with two sticks. It changes my experience of so many things. I've never been called "dear" so much in my life. The more that you can cultivate independence without seeming to, the better.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    It creeps up on you, this ceding of territory. The reason I got a hearing aid when I was only a little deaf was that I found myself retreating from using the phone.

    There are other areas - and there ought to be more - where I put in the work because I know if I don’t, stealthy tides will wash them away.
  • I have some sympathy with your father not wanting to take boring safe walks when he's used to hill walking. It's really not the same thing. We're dealing with similar things here and having to walk on flat smooth surfaces instead the sort of fell walking we used to do. It takes effort to find interesting things that are within current abilities. We've planned walks along canals and old railway lines as a compromise. (And done a whole lot while we still could over the last few years.)

    Rather than trying to get him to do something he used to enjoy and cannot do to the same extent can't you suggest a different activity that he hasn't tried and could master?
  • LeRocLeRoc Shipmate
    My parents just sold the house where they'd lived for 38 years and where we grew up in, to live in a smaller house without stairs. I think they took the decision at the right point, but still it's a bit emotional for all of us.
  • His life seems to be contracting and I don't really understand why. He seems to think that if he can't do something as well as he could five years ago, when he was still very active and able to e.g. go hill walking, he won't do it at all.

    It's hard to accept that you are less competent than you used to be. Is your father by chance a bit of a perfectionist? Doing something which doesn't meet the standard of your previous capabilities can feel like deliberately half-arseing it, which is a hard thing to accept. Sitting down for the hymn is rather similar.

    The corollary of "if its worth doing something, it's worth doing well" is "if you can't do it well, don't bother."
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I think my dad would have sympathised with yours, NEQ. I remember asking him a while back (probably not long after Mum died) if he had attended the funeral of a friend, and he said he hadn't, because he was worried about having to go out to use the loo.

    I think our parents' generation does have high standards when it comes to how one behaves in certain public situations, and I can totally understand why your dad would have felt he was letting the side down if he sat during the hymn.
  • DiomedesDiomedes Shipmate
    Indeed - my mother, as she became increasingly unsteady on her feet, stopped going to church ' in case she felt wobbly', and refused to be taken to the park in a wheelchair as people would think she was old. She was 93 at the time.
  • JacobsenJacobsen Shipmate
    His life seems to be contracting and I don't really understand why. He seems to think that if he can't do something as well as he could five years ago, when he was still very active and able to e.g. go hill walking, he won't do it at all.

    It's hard to accept that you are less competent than you used to be. Is your father by chance a bit of a perfectionist? Doing something which doesn't meet the standard of your previous capabilities can feel like deliberately half-arseing it, which is a hard thing to accept. Sitting down for the hymn is rather similar.

    The corollary of "if its worth doing something, it's worth doing well" is "if you can't do it well, don't bother."

    George Bernard Shaw wrote:"If a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing badly."
    Better badly than not at all, though I do have sympathy for those longing for their lost youth. I have friends who will suffer, standing painfully for longish periods at events, because to do otherwise would be to become " that old person"!
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    Piglet wrote: »
    I think our parents' generation does have high standards when it comes to how one behaves in certain public situations, and I can totally understand why your dad would have felt he was letting the side down if he sat during the hymn.

    I remember years ago at my then-current church that an elderly parishioner complained that we should never sing, "I bind unto myself today" because it was hard on her to stand that long. Someone said that she should just sit down. She said, "Oh no, I couldn't do that."

    She didn't realize that she was demanding that we refrain from singing a hymn we liked because she didn't feel free to sit down.

  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Oh the tyranny of ‘What would people think?’
  • Lily PadLily Pad Shipmate
    Moo, had someone suggested that that hymn be sung with the whole congregation seated, then everyone would do fine. That's what drives me nuts about how we do things in the church. Yes, the true singers would be prevented from singing at full voice by sitting rather than standing, but still, it would be a good compromise. Stealthy accommodation of differences is great.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    You don’t have to be old to feel a bit knackered by the end of "Paddy's Bra" (as St. Patrick's Breastplate is affectionately known). I'm usually ready for a stiff drink by the end of the ninth verse!
  • Firenze wrote: »
    It creeps up on you, this ceding of territory...I put in the work because I know if I don’t, stealthy tides will wash them away.

    Ouch. That's a strong metaphor which speaks to me even now, on the young side of 50. Time to get back on the Lent wagon.
  • JacobsenJacobsen Shipmate
    It's the vacuum cleaner. Bloody heavy. That's the one my cleaner uses. I got a special light upright one for me to use when she's on holiday. As I'm still working, a person to do the basic cleaning is a near necessity, but when I retire*, what then? Will I discover that the tides have swept away the ability to do housework?

    *Retirement - a concept which, in the UK, recedes as we approach it. Many people can't afford it.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    My vacuum cleaner, the one which is up to dealing with the living floor needs*, but which there is nowhere on that floor to store, is labelled "lightweight". It might deserve that adjective on the Moon.

    *She has taken to having the nurses wrap her legs in the living room where there is carpet, which makes vacuuming up skin particles vital. Instead of using the lightweight wipey thing on the kitchen vinyl.
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    One of the reasons that my mother stayed so fit for so long, and is only finding housework a bit too difficult at the age of 90 was that she spent a good chunk of her sixties steering a 70ft. canal boat, opening locks etc etc.
    NEQ anyway you can introduce your father to interest groups on the internet? When my father's heart condition meant he could no longer go on long canal trips he sold his boat and took to the internet instead. This was in the late nineties, so chat groups were still a pretty new thing. He managed to find friends all over the world as he imparted his knowledge of Britian's Inland Waterways and it certainly gave him a new interest in the last eighteen months or so of his life.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    The internet idea sounds good. My father was lucky in that he had a pre-internet interest that carried him up to his last illness. He was an amateur radio operator who talked to people all over the world. He had gotten his first license as a teenager and made his last contacts in his nineties. It was particularly satisfying because besides being fun, it had a public service aspect. Once or twice a year, he would be involved with helping with a mayday call of boats in the Pacific. One of the sweetest things I did after he passed was attend a yachting dinner that included a posthumous award to Dad for his service to the sailing community. :cry:
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Interesting development in my situation. Today the doctor turned up with the nurses, and she has really riled D. This was going to be long post, but the nub of the matter is that I am going to have social services support for some respite every now and then, and she is furious that they are going to come to the house.
    D thinks this will be her being taken off for care, from which she will never return, and this is what I want. I think it will be someone coming in for part of a day.

    There has been flak following, and grumbles about interference in her private matters, and dislike of the doctor, but things have calmed down now a bit as she processes things.

    And someone is going to do something.

  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    edited March 2018
    Yay! Progress! Maybe having professionals come in regularly will give the PTB a clear understanding of what's going on, thus edging her toward your goal. Plus you may be able to get out and kick up your heels. Or wait for it....have lunch and see a movie with friends. :triumph:
  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    Good there has been some progress Penny S. If no one turns up from the Social Services or there isn't enough help keep hassling them. You need to start getting your own life back.
  • Tree BeeTree Bee Shipmate
    Glad to hear it Penny S.
  • I hope you've learned your lesson.

    My sister (a nurse practitioner) thought she could handle taking in our mother, who had Lewy body dementia and was recovering from complications from exploratory surgery gone wrong (long story, but she was near death -- really!). Well, my sister quickly realized she had bit off much more than she could chew, and as soon as my mother was well enough we settled my father and her in a senior facility.

    And this woman was not even related to you!
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    edited March 2018
    Yeah, like the man who fell among thieves wasn't related to the Samaritan. Going to church twice a Sunday as a child has a lot to answer for. Jesus wants me for a sunbeam, tell me the stories of Jesus, hear the pennies dropping..(I had to play that on the piano which was set on a glass panel in the floor so the room downstairs had natural light!)

    I suppose one needs to make sure the patient is really near to death. We thought she was going to die before April last year. And on admission into hospital with pneumonia. In April. And get any arrangements in writing.
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    edited March 2018
    Penny S wrote: »
    Yeah, like the man who fell among thieves wasn't related to the Samaritan.
    Well the Samaritan didn't have to move the victim in with him in order to help him. In the Bible story the Samaritan took him to an inn, helped him recover, then continued on his way. :innocent:
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    BTW when I said that the Samaritan "didn't have to move him in" I meant that to offer the help you wanted to give, you yourself pretty much had to do that. I'm sure if you had a few thousand lying about you would have been happy to get her into a nice place with good help. But being a person of normal means, you did what you felt you could. It just backfired.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Glad to hear something sensible is happening at last, Penny - don't let Social Services palm you off with anything less than what your friend needs.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    I certainly have learned that Social Services can do palming off with relish.
  • JacobsenJacobsen Shipmate
    Which means that at long last you may get what you need - your space back. :joy:
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    I think you may be doing what my friend does, Penny S - becoming a martyr instead of a Marthur. My friend feels guilt too easily then takes on more than is good for her and ends up needing help herself.

    There is nothing wrong at all with looking after your needs and doing what you can for others. That doesn’t mean giving up your home and sanctuary. When the time comes I hope you can do it (allow her to be settled elsewhere but still then do your best for her) and - importantly - not feel guilty about it.

    <votive>

  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host

    Boogie wrote: »
    I think you may be doing what my friend does, Penny S - becoming a martyr instead of a Marthur. My friend feels guilt too easily then takes on more than is good for her and ends up needing help herself. <votive>

    I think this hits the nail on the head, but I can see how it happens. I'm trying to make sure this doesn't happen with me and my mother and at the moment I'm feeling slightly guilty about it. At least she is my mother and however much she annoys me I do like her as well as love her.

  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    edited March 2018
    Sarasa wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    I think you may be doing what my friend does, Penny S - becoming a martyr instead of a Marthur. My friend feels guilt too easily then takes on more than is good for her and ends up needing help herself. <votive>

    I think this hits the nail on the head, but I can see how it happens. I'm trying to make sure this doesn't happen with me and my mother and at the moment I'm feeling slightly guilty about it. At least she is my mother and however much she annoys me I do like her as well as love her.

    We looked after my Mum long after we really could cope. We all took it in turns to live with her on a 3 day rota for three years. She was in a hoist for moving around in the end and had severe dementia. My brother and I found it too much eventually. We called a family meeting. It was the hardest family discussion we have ever had. My SIL (wife of my other brother) wanted us to carry on ‘till the end and my nieces wanted whatever she wanted. We eventually persuaded everyone - and she was then in a wonderful home for two years. When she was dying we brought her back to my brother’s farm and she died with us all together.

    It was really, really hard to say ‘no more’ to my SIL who simply adored Mum and couldn’t let go. But she was a nurse and could keep up the nursing for as long as needed, we found it hugely difficult and stressful. SIL also had a huge ‘need to be needed’ and Mum filled this gap very well indeed. But she’s found other outlets for this and is fine now.

    <votive> Sarasa, none of this is easy :cry:
  • SparrowSparrow Shipmate
    This is not about a relative, but a friend of my partner. I haven't even met the man but I am concerned about what I have heard. I am in a quandrary about what to say and how much to say.

    Basically we have an 80 year old man who is quite vulnerable having lost his wife last year, after having looked after her declining health for many years. So he is lonely and bereft. He has two daughters who I believe keep an eye on him but do not live close by.

    Anyway the problem is ... what do you say to this man who is absolutely convinced that the 29 year old (she says) Georgian woman who has befriended him on line and bombarded him with hundreds of affectionate messages and sexy photographs, that she really genuinely does want to come and live with him and look after him?

    My partner has tried passing on my warnings to him but he doesn't appear to be taking them seriously. This woman hasn't asked for money yet but I feel it is only a matter of time.

    In one sense I realise it is none of our business ... he is mentally ok and can look after himself. But he can't seem to see that this is a scam. I feel I just can't stand back and see him taken advantage of.
  • MaryLouiseMaryLouise Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Catfishing scams too.

    This is a case where friends and relatives should intervene. Money sent off and deposited could be hard to retrieve, and the emotional shock, disillusionment, embarrassment, etc can be very hard on the elderly. Those of us who didn't grow up with the Internet are still battling to read the obvious.
  • AravisAravis Shipmate
    Penny, just to let you know, it's likely to be a carer coming round for a couple of hours (not a trained professional).
    As I have said before, they will not remove D from your home unless she wants to go or unless they think she is at risk while living with you. This is not social services being evil or uncaring; it's a recognition that most people prefer to live with someone they are close to, rather than being isolated or institutionalised, and they will not disrupt an arrangement that appears to be working well.
    If you can't cope with the level of personal care she needs, and you make this clear to professionals, you should also get carers assisting with that. But you won't get this unless you ask.
    If you want her to leave your house, you will have to give her notice and inform social services of this - otherwise they will make decisions based on D's best interests, and those appear to be for her to continue to live with a friend who can provide a certain amount of companionship and support. They have a duty of care for D, who is elderly, unwell and vulnerable. They have none for you, unless you tell them that you can't cope and will no longer agree to house and support this woman.
    Sorry for repeating myself, but I get fed up with the regular sniping about social services not doing anything. Social services are far from perfect, but they're trying to do their best with an ageing population and an alarming lack of funding.
  • Sparrow wrote: »
    Basically we have an 80 year old man who . . . is absolutely convinced that the 29 year old (she says) Georgian woman who has befriended him on line and bombarded him with hundreds of affectionate messages and sexy photographs . . . does want to come and live with him and look after him.
    Try to engage him in conversation as follows:

    o What do you want her to do?
    o Why do you think she would want to do that?
    o Why wouldn't she instead settle for someone her own age in her own village?
    o What will happen to you if it turns out she is scamming you?
    o How would you feel if you were the one who died and your wife took up with a much younger man?
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    Oh, I know about the lack of funding. Despite that, the most recent bunch of social workers did their utmost to find a good outcome. The previous lot, though were unpleasant, and had been 8 years before, when D had CO poisoning. D had been uncooperative with both groups, and is terrified of going into care.
    Nobody from social services has checked up on how D is cared for, that I am not in any way taking advantage, though I suppose the community nurses can report back if they are concerned.
    It is because of the funding, the gap between hospital and social care, and D's fears that I am prepared to put up with things a bit longer. But I am 72, which doesn't exactly make me invulnerable. And the people who do come, nurses, dietitian, doctor, have seen that.
  • Penny S wrote: »
    But I am 72, which doesn't exactly make me invulnerable. And the people who do come, nurses, dietitian, doctor, have seen that.

    But you are not their client. And you need to understand that. As Aravis said, their job is to look after the best interests of D. They are not there to look after your interests, or notice your age or vulnerability. I think Aravis gave you some excellent advise that sounds like it comes from a place of experience/expertise. You will need to be clear, direct, and follow the correct protocol (in writing, I'm guessing) to be sure that your needs are addressed. I do not want to see you continue in this arrangement, it seems completely unmanageable. But it does work for D, so the arrangement is apt to continue until you take the initiative to advocate for yourself. I know that's hard for you-- you might even risk being misunderstood or judged unfairly. But you have a right to your life, and being misunderstood won't kill you (but being overworked just might). Know that you have an entire shipload of people backing you and praying for you and understanding.

  • SarasaSarasa All Saints Host
    Penny S - Not really anything I can add to the very good advice from Aravis and Cliffdweller, but I am praying that a good outcome is found.

    Sparrow - Is there anyway your partner can nudge his friend towards making new friends (romantic or otherwise)in real life? It sounds like he needs something to distract him from on-line romances.

    My brother has just been in contact. My mother tasked him with finding a suitable holiday for her. I don't think she ought to be going on holiday by herself, but she is determined to do so. In fact she would probably have booked something by now if she could actually see the number on her credit card. My brothers opinion is that if she wants to do it and a company is prepared to take her then fine.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    @Sparrow - I think anything your partner can do to steer his friend away from this cyber-lady should be tried. Has he spoken to his friend's daughters about it? I doubt that the sudden appearance of a "29-year-old" (if that's what she is) in their father's life is likely to fill them with joy!

    @Penny S - where does D's son fit into all this? Even though you've taken on (or been lumbered with) the role of D's carer, if there is consultation with Social Services, shouldn't he be involved, and it pointed out to them that he's an actual blood relation, which you're not?
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    One thing has been forgotten in all this is that at the beginning of last year, when I first took D in, we thought it was an end of life situation and that she would be unlikely to last until April 6th, which was her intention, to save inheritance tax! She was in a very bad way. The last time, I had been given the impression that it was for a very short period (a weekend) before she was in a convalescent home while her house was dealt with, or for the period of building work (a fortnight with lead in time). I never intended, or expected, this situation to last as long as it has.
    When I mentioned this to the doctor the other week, D was emphatic that no such assurance had been given, so I retreated with the suggestion of a misunderstanding rather than get into a "are you calling me a liar" situation. Had I known she did not intend to have the work done, she would not be here.
    Social services have had discussions with her son, but they lead nowhere. (I have not been privy to these discussions.) She is the householder, she has the rights over her house, she has the money, and he has no legal power to do anything. Especially no power of attorney, which she is not going to grant. He cannot employ builders without her permission - they would not engage in work under those conditions.
    I am waiting for her to have real trouble with the stairs to the toilet. It was very odd how she was suddenly able to manage stairs just before the last discharge, when I had made a major point of their being the difficulty, and there being no proper location for a commode on the living floor. I was trying very hard to make it clear this house was not appropriate. I gave the team plans of the floors and how rooms were used! The occupational therapist did her assessment over the phone! They were very keen on getting rid of her. The stairs are no longer as easy for her as they were last year, and she has trouble breathing after the effort. This would be the preferable way out, rather than more serious illness, requiring hospital again. From which she would not return.
    I was not at all pleased when D felt she could interfere in the possibility of social services being involved in my wellbeing, telling the doctor I didn't need support. As if I were her relation. But that may be useful in future.
    D herself does not have any social service involvement, so cannot be seen as their client. She has refused it. The dietitian was surprised there is no care manager. No-one has shown any interest since she left the hospital.
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    There is stuff I need to choose not to post here, though you may be curious about it.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Penny S wrote: »
    There is stuff I need to choose not to post here, though you may be curious about it.
    No worries - you should only post what you feel comfortable about passing on.

    However, bear in mind that this is a public forum, which can be read by anyone.

    Piglet, AS host
  • My daughter has moved back home because it is not safe for her to live alone; she has deteriorating health conditions that mean she cannot always be left alone safely. Trying to live independently she has at times had to rely on people who have not always accepted the restraints on them being around her. She describes how frightening it is to be dependent on someone who resented having to adapt their behaviour in her presence. When she has read about D on the Old Ship™ she empathises with how scared D must feel trapped in someone else's house, someone who she suspects doesn't like her, and from which she can't see an escape. Particularly when media cover of care homes preys on her mind and makes her believe these are not an option.
  • JacobsenJacobsen Shipmate
    @CK - your daughter clearly is capable of empathy, which D appears not to be. And she (D) is not trapped; she has, and has always had, the option of returning to her own home, of agreeing to have it made suitable for her to live in, and of importing carers to see to her
    needs. Where's the "trapped" in that? She does have an escape, but, from the sound of things, is too stingy and self-willed to use it, preferring to batten on her hostess. If she really is mentally competent, she is the relative/guest from hell.

    What D can't escape from are the fact and effects of old age. But she's having a damn good try, at PennyS's expense. OK, PennyS may have made a mistake in agreeing to have D to stay, but this whole situation is ridiculous. Sympathy for D ( and mine is minimal, as must be fairly obvious) should not prevent the proper resolution, which is for D to move out.

    @PennyS, it's time to stop acting like a lady, and to lay it on the line to Social Services. Forget being "nice." Your health and sanity are at stake. Take on board the advice given upthread. If push comes to shove, tell this useless son to pack his mother in the car and deliver her either to her own home, where SS can assess her, or to their offices. And leave her there.
  • There have been moments in the last few weeks when I have wondered about my daughter's capacity for empathy.

    I will have to answer your other points on the Bad Samaritan thread in Hell.
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