Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • Ford Automobile had a huge car they called a Landau. Picture here.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    Unless by some chance the joke was that such a thing did not really exist, and Emma’s nemesis was being subtly mocked by her constant harping on the (non)thingie?
  • Unless by some chance the joke was that such a thing did not really exist, and Emma’s nemesis was being subtly mocked by her constant harping on the (non)thingie?

    Wikipedia seems to think it existed through most of the 19th century. I know they're not perfect but I doubt they would extrapolate a whole century from one line in Emma.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    JA is letting you know just how much of a socially-insecure parvenu Mrs Elton is.

    You can amuse yourself by thinking of what vehicle she would drag into conversation nowadays.
  • Yes. Try telling Mrs Elton they don't exist!
  • Firenze wrote: »
    JA is letting you know just how much of a socially-insecure parvenu Mrs Elton is.

    You can amuse yourself by thinking of what vehicle she would drag into conversation nowadays.

    A Rover 800, for my money, along these lines.
  • Off topic, butI thought if you're interested in language this may appeal:
    Residents of an overwintering station in Antarctica provided linguists with evidence of the first small changes in speech that may signal the development of a new accent.

    ...

    And even during their short time in Antarctica, the way the winterers produced certain vowels began to converge, averaging out the resonances. ...
  • Not surprising. The longer you stay in an isolated culture, the more pronounced that accent will become.
  • I find it difficult to come to terms with the way different groups of people greet each other at Christmas. I grew up with saying Happy Christmas as I had English parents. However, in Australia most people say Merry Christmas. Our friends in the USA say Happy Holidays which seems really strange to me as holidays to me are taking time off work any time of the year and going away for what the Americans call a vacation. The strangest expression though I ever heard was from my late Mother in law who always said Compliments of the Season. That always seemed like something the business manager would write in a message to his clients.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    I think "Compliments of the season" is an old greeting, maybe from around Dickens' time.

    ETA: "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays" in the US is complicated. HH is partly to accommodate non-Christians and anyone who doesn't celebrate any kind of Christmas. Also to include New Year's, Hanukkah, Solstice, etc. Some people consider that part of "the war on Christmas".
  • May I wish Condiments of the Seasoning to all?
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    I think "Compliments of the season" is an old greeting, maybe from around Dickens' time.

    ETA: "Merry Christmas" vs. "Happy Holidays" in the US is complicated. HH is partly to accommodate non-Christians and anyone who doesn't celebrate any kind of Christmas. Also to include New Year's, Hanukkah, Solstice, etc. Some people consider that part of "the war on Christmas".
    Yes, but “Happy Holidays” does predate the so-called war on Christmas, going back at least to 1942 and the Irving Berlin song of the same name from the movie “Holiday Inn.”

    But yes, I think it cake yo be viewed as useful as encompassing Christmas or Hanukkah, as well as New Year’s, which pretty much everyone (well, except maybe JWs) observes. Then as observance of Kwanza, Solstice, etc. became more common, it continued to be useful.

    In the American South, though, I still hear it much less often than Merry Christmas, except in contexts where you know a group comprises people who celebrate different holidays, or maybe speaking to a stranger.

    On the other hand, calling the season “the holidays”—as in “what are your plans for the holidays?” or “Oh, There’s No Place Like Home for the Holidays”—is very common.

  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, Hell Host
    "The holidays" is the period when work grinds to an end for everyone except retail workers, restaurant workers, delivery folk of varying descriptions, entertainers, and journalists.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    And clergy :neutral:
  • And church musicians.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    BroJames wrote: »
    And clergy :neutral:

    Especially in a year (such s this) when Christmas Day falls on a weekday. That means they have to work two days in the same week.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, Hell Host
    As a church musician and sometime preacher (I used to be given Advent IV AND Christmas Day on a regular basis), I'm now wondering how I left out those categories. It must be chemo brain! ;-)
  • Urfshyne wrote: »
    May I wish Condiments of the Seasoning to all?

    :wink:
  • Rossweisse, I suspect you'd make an interesting preacher! ;)
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, Hell Host
    "Interesting" is such a useful word. But yeah, I did a decent job. This morning, I was reflecting on a sermon I did a few years ago on Advent IV. At that time I was the only woman on the regular preaching rota who had ever been pregnant, and I started out talking about Mary's journey to Nazareth: how she must have been in that I-want-my-body-back stage, riding on a donkey while nine months pregnant in that rough country. (The female parishioners were enthusiastic; the men were...quiet.)
  • Gee D wrote: »
    BroJames wrote: »
    And clergy :neutral:

    Especially in a year (such s this) when Christmas Day falls on a weekday. That means they have to work two days in the same week.

    Actually this year my work schedule has/ will run as follows:
    13th Rehearsal in evening
    14th Rehearsal in afternoon, concert in evening
    15th Service in morning, concert in afternoon,service (covering for another organist) in evening
    16th Carol Service afternoon
    17th Rehearsal afternoon, concert in evening
    18th Funeral morning, evening concert
    19th Carol Concert evening
    20th Memorial Service morning, rehearsal evening
    21st Rehearsal afternoon
    22nd Services morning and evening
    23rd Funerals (2)
    24th Service evening
    25th Services (s) in morning

    Some of those are "extras" because I'm covering for a colleague with 'flu but even so, its 13 days on the bounce. None of the clergy at the services involved, or school music teachers, will have done half as much.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    But you're not clergy, the class about whom I posted.
  • Wet KipperWet Kipper Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    A question for my US based shipmates

    the new song by Taylor Swift, "Christmas Tree Farm" talks about 'Cider flowing'.
    Similarly I recall seeing bottles / cartons (similar to what milk would be in) of "Apple Cider" in the juice sections of supermarkets when i visited some years ago

    In the US, is Cider synonymous with "Apple Juice?" (or pear or whatever fruit) ?
    here in the UK, Cider always denotes the fermented, alcoholic drink from apples (or other fruit).
    If it is just US-speak for Apple juice, what do you then call the alcoholic version?
  • Not US based, but I spent 7 years there... I think they call what we call cider "hard cider".
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    "The holidays" is the period when work grinds to an end for everyone except retail workers, restaurant workers, delivery folk of varying descriptions, entertainers, and journalists.
    And police, firefighters, EMTs, health care workers, lots of government workers, and quite a few others I can think of. My office is closed Dec 24, 25 and 26 and Jan 1. If I want anything more than those days off, I have to use some of my vacation days (which I doing since my kids are home from college, though it remains to be seen how much I’ll need to work while on vacation).

    I remember when work slowed down in the legal world in late December. Those days are gone, and have been gone a few decades.

    @Wet Kipper, as @Cathscats says, what is called cider in the UK is generally called “hard cider” here, though that is changing a little. Cider here generally means unrefined apple juice.

  • Yes I've never been able to figure out the distinction between "apple juice" and "apple cider." In general they both mean unfermented apple juice. As noted we call the real stuff "apple cider." In the old days we had something called "apple jack" but I'm not entirely sure what that was, since it was for all intents and purposes gone by the time I was drinking booze.
  • The general, if vague, distinction that seems to be used here is that apple juice is strained and purified to the point of having a translucent, jewel-like amber color. It may or may not be sweetened. Kids drink it.

    Cider is not strained or purified and retains a thickish, cloudy color that isn’t in the least translucent. It isn’t sweetened, and kids typically won’t touch it.

    I’m about to make caramel sauce with the aforementioned kind of cider, which will be delivered to neighbors.

  • Wish I lived closer.
  • Apple Jack I'd take to be distilled cider. Same principle as Calvados.
  • I've read a historical fiction description of the making of apple jack (is that carefully circumlocuted enough?) which involves freezing hard cider and then removing the unfrozen alcoholic "heart" of the barrel. So basically way over-alcoholized hard cider.
  • I've read a historical fiction description of the making of apple jack (is that carefully circumlocuted enough?) which involves freezing hard cider and then removing the unfrozen alcoholic "heart" of the barrel. So basically way over-alcoholized hard cider.

    That sounds very familiar.
  • Then I expect you’ve read the Outlander novels! Or possibly Michael Pollan.
  • Reportedly, Johnny Appleseed, the folk hero US kids learn about in school , actually went around planting all those trees to eventually make *hard cider* with.

    Not quite what I was taught! ;)
  • Right. Hard cider was the most widely-consumed drink in the US in the early days of the country.

    Johnny Appleseed (aka John Chapman) was also a Swedenborgian minister.

  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Right. Hard cider was the most widely-consumed drink in the US in the early days of the country.

    Johnny Appleseed (aka John Chapman) was also a Swedenborgian minister.

    This explains the converts from Methodism. (joking)
  • Before Prohibition "cider" did refer to an alcoholic drink in the US as nearly all fruit juices will turn into alcohol if not pasteurized. When prohibition came into effect, American producers had to learn to change with the times. Lately, though, many local producers hare beginning to sell the hard stuff again.

    On a different tack, I saw a report on the American BBC broadcast that British sign language is developing new signs for the scientific discoveries that had none. It reminded me that American Sign Language and British Sign Language also have some differences in signs
  • It irks me no end that the self-proclaimed Apple Capital of the World has so few ciders available, and most of what is at the grocery store is imported from other states, and virtually no restaurants or bars have it on tap.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    You remind me that I'm shortly going down to visit friends in Somerset for the New Year who live not a laden swallow's flight from a cider farm that does the real, cloudy, unpasteurised, non-carbonated traditional cider and perry for stupidly low prices. The perry (there is no such thing as pear cider) is particularly good.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    The rise of artisanal ciders has been a thing here in recent years. It's on nothing the scale of Real Ales, but it's now possible to find pubs with taps that aren't just Strongbow (a popular, but imo disgustingly thin and fizzy cider). Admittedly the most common - Weston's and Aspall's - are also large producers, but they do at least produce a range of regionally distinct styles.

    All are, of course, regarded as the Antichrist by Real Cidermakers. Anytime we are in England, we hunt for these. They tend to be found in small villages, in properties with rambling sheds full of burbling carboys.

    We are currently drinking some from darkest Nottinghamshire, which is completely still, natural fermentation (no yeast) and all from organic orchards - some, he assured us, even have their own bees!
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    On a different tack, I saw a report on the American BBC broadcast that British sign language is developing new signs for the scientific discoveries that had none. It reminded me that American Sign Language and British Sign Language also have some differences in signs

    As I understand it, each sign language is essentially a language, and not a representation of a spoken language. So this is not a case of dialect differences just because spoken American English and spoken British English are like that. There is no reason for sign languages to fall into the same language families as spoken languages do.

    A quick bit of googling led to the Wikipedia article on British Sign Language, which observes that American Sign Language is actually primarily based on French Sign Language, and is pretty much unintelligible to users of British Sign Language.

    EDIT: Turns out Wikipedia has entire articles on sign language families. The relationships are vastly different from the spoken languages.

  • And there can be various accents within a sign language. E.g., Gallaudet Univ. for the deaf has its own accent.

    **Hi, orfeo!** Good to see you! :)
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    **Hi, orfeo!** Good to see you! :)

    Yo.

  • Re French sign language:

    IIRC, that started out as the signing system used by Trappist monks in France. (Vow of silence.)
  • orfeoorfeo Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Re French sign language:

    IIRC, that started out as the signing system used by Trappist monks in France. (Vow of silence.)

    Well, Wikipedia doesn't go for that particular story...

    And it seems unlikely because that would be a signing system for French.

    Are you perhaps thinking of "Signed French"? Which is not the same thing as French Sign Language.
  • Gee D wrote: »
    But you're not clergy, the class about whom I posted.

    In response to mine about church musicians.

    Never mind.

    Suffice to say that even stripping out those events at other churches and straight concerts, I'll still end up doing more services at my own place than our priest.

  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    I've read a historical fiction description of the making of apple jack (is that carefully circumlocuted enough?) which involves freezing hard cider and then removing the unfrozen alcoholic "heart" of the barrel. So basically way over-alcoholized hard cider.
    That sounds very familiar.
    I know that description of applejack production from Terry Pratchett's Equal Rites.

  • There was a time when I visited a 90-year-old man. Where did I find him? On a ladder picking apples at the top of one of his trees. He invited me in to try our his apple jack. He poured the liquid out into a kitchen glass. I drank that, and he refilled it. My head was spinning so much, I had to walk home and had to sleep it off.
  • The British conveyancing system does shut down for about 2 weeks at Christmas - when we bought our house a couple of years ago we were warned we wouldn't be able to complete at any point from the Thursday before Christmas until the new year. (They weren't doing anything on the Friday as they were shutting at lunch and there wouldn't be time to fix issues before Christmas.)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Something I noticed when I was in Germany and I also saw it on Downton Abby was people eating with the fork in the left hand. In North America, people will switch the fork from the left hand when cutting to the right hand when placing the food into the mouth.

    I thought it was something we did on this side of the pond, but why I never knew.

    Well, it turns out that at one time both Europeans and Americans would switch from one hand to the other; however, it seems Europeans stopped switching hands more or less out of economy--it takes less time to eat. Odd, because it always seems Europeans take longer dining times.

    For me, I am ambidextrous. I can eat both ways. My wife has learned to cut her meat and eat it with the fork in her left hand, but she cannot eat the rest of her food without moving the fork to the right hand.

    Have you noticed this?

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