Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Yeppers.

    I have warned my husband that he'd better prepare himself for the possible attempt to strip him and any number of other folk in our community of their naturalization. After all, they are sadly brown, and we all know that that constitutes an error in the citizenship process now!

    I am with you on this one. My son in law is Filipino. When he came into the US he got into a bit of trouble for a petty crime. It was expunged several years ago but he could not be naturalized. When his green card expired--and he did not renew it--the Obama administration tried to deport him. He fought it and won, His immigration lawyer advised him to get his citizenship which took going through some extra hoops.

    Still, while he did have his US citizenship, Canada refused to admit him because Interpol still showed that petty crime. It took another round of getting a Queen's pardon which he finally got. So, if 45 tries to go after him, he will likely just move to Canada.
  • ...sometimes, I wonder if part of T is screaming "get me out of here--stop me before I 'president' again!" That would explain a lot about his behavior. He seems to do just about anything he can think of to get people so sick of him that they'll drop-kick him out of office.

    (NOT minimizing Shipmates' concerns.)
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Unfortunately, the part of him that would like to be President for Life (shudder!) seems to have the upper hand.
  • Wow. I can't believe that I'm almost necroing this thread!

    I did a big drive yesterday, and got into the meaty part of Vol 2. of the Mueller Report. It looks like Priebus and McGahn were not only taking legal advice almost every time the President gave them a direction about the Russia Probe, but that they laid it all out for Mueller.

    If Trump loses in 2020 and is charged and the facts in the Mueller Report are proven, he's going inside, huh. I mean, Papadopoulos went inside for lying to the FBI. Surely Trump's blatant obstruction is worse.

    Also, are the time limits on prosecutions for these types of crimes capable of being extended by the Courts upon application? Surely the President's immunity in office should stop the clock!
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    So this allegedly happened:
    In a previously undisclosed secret mission in 2017, the United States successfully extracted from Russia one of its highest-level covert sources inside the Russian government, multiple Trump administration officials with direct knowledge told CNN.

    A person directly involved in the discussions said that the removal of the Russian was driven, in part, by concerns that President Donald Trump and his administration repeatedly mishandled classified intelligence and could contribute to exposing the covert source as a spy.

    The decision to carry out the extraction occurred soon after a May 2017 meeting in the Oval Office in which Trump discussed highly classified intelligence with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and then-Russian Ambassador to the US Sergey Kislyak. The intelligence, concerning ISIS in Syria, had been provided by Israel.

    The disclosure to the Russians by the President, though not about the Russian spy specifically, prompted intelligence officials to renew earlier discussions about the potential risk of exposure, according to the source directly involved in the matter.

    The tl;dr is that the U.S. intelligence community regarded Donald Trump as a security risk in early 2017 to the extent that they pulled a valuable agent/asset who was inside "the Russian government". The fact that the American president* is credibly considered a security risk is pretty bad.

    The interesting question is who are the (multiple anonymous) sources for this story. Some have argued that this is an attempt by the intelligence community to "check" some of Trump's more egregious behavior. If that's the case, that seems . . . sub-optimal at best. Elected leaders should serve as a check on intelligence agencies, not the other way around. On the other hand some have speculated that the impetus for the story originated with John Bolton. This kind of bureaucratic knife-fighting is his one competent governing skill skill and he's been at odds with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo. Pompeo was the head of the CIA when this decision was made and this story is bound to make Trump go ballistic when he hears about it from Fox & Friends.

    And just in time to remind people that endangering American agents/assets is standard operating procedure for Republican administrations, not some Trumpish anomaly, Valerie Plame announced her candidacy for Congress today. (Whoever it was on her communications staff who came up with that video deserves a bonus.)
  • Indeed!
  • So...

    "Mick Jagger Lashes Trump For Wiping Out Environmental Protection" (HuffPost).

    Actually, actor Donald Sutherland got in on the act, too.
  • What a fantastic campaign ad!
  • For whom? ;)
  • Valerie Plame!!! I love the driving and the cowboy feel. She has my vote.
  • Re Valerie Plame:

    ROTFL. What a great campaign video! You go, girl!!!

    And, if she doesn't win, she might just have a career on screen.

    (Oh, I wish she were running against T. Can you imagine the debates?)
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    On the other hand some have speculated that the impetus for the story originated with John Bolton. This kind of bureaucratic knife-fighting is his one competent governing skill skill and he's been at odds with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo.
    Annnnnnnnd Bolton has resigned/was fired. I have to admit, I did not see that coming. I figured Pompeo would go first. But, reading the article, clearly Trump would get rid of Bolton first--Bolton dares to think differently from Trump!

  • Hedgehog wrote: »
    Annnnnnnnd Bolton has resigned/was fired. I have to admit, I did not see that coming. I figured Pompeo would go first. But, reading the article, clearly Trump would get rid of Bolton first--Bolton dares to think differently from Trump!

    Surprised me too, but the firing just seems so . . . Trump. Despite Trump's claim that he asked Bolton for his resignation last night it seems pretty clear Bolton was just fired by tweet. If that's true it seems like quite the screw up that Bolton was still listed as being part of a press briefing with Pompeo and Mnuchin at 1:30 pm ET today. The fact that Bolton was allegedly fired because he opposed peace talks with the Taliban just makes it perfect. If you don't want someone who opposes peace on general principles, you don't hire John Bolton in the first place!
  • The discussions around about me is that trumpty will arrange to be "elected" again. It is likely isn't it?
  • Bolton, to me, is what I know as a chicken hawk. He continually wants to go to war to effect regime change, but he has no idea how to accomplish that. Though Rumsfeld took the fall for the Iraq War it was also the brainchild of Bolton. I am glad he is gone, but the question is who will want to replace him. 45 continues to burn through people, the turnstile does not have a chance to cool down.
  • Imagine you're right-wing and relatively high profile (with flexible ethics) and you get a call from a White House aide. If it was any other president you'd be thrilled but for working Trump - surely you'd have significant doubts after the 'churn' in his administration?
  • Wesley JWesley J Shipmate
    edited September 10
    Inadvertent victim of a malevolent tweet from the person in question, an evangelical pastor publishes an open letter.

    (Found via a Washington Post article; subscriber-only access I think)
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited September 11
    Another one to bite the dust today in the 45 administration is William Happer. He was a climate change denier who likened the attack on fossil fuels to the Holocaust. He was supposed to set up a panel to dismantle all the climate protection programs that the United States does have. Good bye. Don't let the door hit your behind as you leave.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Hang on a minute - Trump's actually fired a climate-change denier???

    Has he inadvertently done something sensible, or did Mr. Happer not deny it quite loudly enough?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited September 12
    Piglet wrote: »
    Hang on a minute - Trump's actually fired a climate-change denier???

    Has he inadvertently done something sensible, or did Mr. Happer not deny it quite loudly enough?

    According to the [url="Blob:https://www.msnbc.com/5fd5ab1d-0658-4d15-a2be-e8a6c363d8bc"]Rachel Maddow Show[/url] there was a whole slew people who abruptly left the NSA today.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    @Gramps49, I can fix the appearance of your link above, but it still gets ‘Page not found’.

    BroJames
    Purgatory Host
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited September 12
    Funny, I cannot pull it up either, sorry about that.
  • Just so we're clear, in case anyone is tempted to trot out the usual cliche...

    John Bolton was NOT one of The Adults In The Room.

    Creoses wrote:

    The fact that Bolton was allegedly fired because he opposed peace talks with the Taliban just makes it perfect. If you don't want someone who opposes peace on general principles, you don't hire John Bolton in the first place!

    My theory is that Trump's foreign policy is governed by two contradictory impulses: a) he is an isolationist who wants to avoid foreign military entanglements, and b) he wants the world to continue bowing to America as The Great Power. Bolton appealed to the latter longing, but was dangerously inconducive to the former.
  • Bolton also wanted to attack Iran for shooting down a drone--and we almost did, the planes were all but in the air when Trump demurred.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited September 13
    45 got hit hard last night at the Democratic Debate. Cory Booker called 45 a racist. Beto called him a white supremacist. Kamala Harris said his tweets provided the ammunition for the recent mass shootings. She went further comparing him to the small dude behind the curtain in the Wizard of Oz. You don't question 45's manhood without him hitting back. I can imagine his retort already--Harris has blood coming out of her eyes. She is a mean lady. Typical fourth-grade responses.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Bolton also wanted to attack Iran for shooting down a drone--and we almost did, the planes were all but in the air when Trump demurred.

    If Elijah Magnier's anonymous Iranian sources are to be believed, Trump contacted Tehran through a third party and asked them if he could just bomb an empty beach. That way he could tell everyone he hit back but Iran wouldn't actually lose anyone. The Iranians made it clear they would not play that game.

  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Bolton also wanted to attack Iran for shooting down a drone--and we almost did, the planes were all but in the air when Trump demurred.

    If Elijah Magnier's anonymous Iranian sources are to be believed, Trump contacted Tehran through a third party and asked them if he could just bomb an empty beach. That way he could tell everyone he hit back but Iran wouldn't actually lose anyone. The Iranians made it clear they would not play that game.

    I can believe that story. He did the same thing when the Syrians used chemical weapons shortly after Trump came into office. Trump ordered a missle-strike on the airbase where the Syrian planes came from, but only after telling the Russians what the target was. That way the Syrians and Russians moved their planes elsewhere and we just hit empty bunkers.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    How devious is that? He really is in Uncle Vlad's pocket, isn't he?
  • If he were in Uncle Vlad's pocket he could have just repeated the Russian government's argument that the attack was staged by Al Qaeda.
  • except he always wants to pretend he's the tough guy.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Meanwhile, I am currently listening to/sort-of-watching "Firing Line" on PBS where Condoleezza Rice is being interviewed by Margaret Hoover. It's the 2nd Rice interview I've seen in the last 2 or 3 days.

    Somebody please reassure me that she's not angling for the job of T's next National Security Advisor in the administration. I never watch Fox News; can anybody tell me if she's been touting her new book on Fox?

    In the last 10 minutes she's mentioned that Trump was right to do XYZ on some foreign policy situation at least 3 times.

    I think I'm going to go throw up now.
  • If he were in Uncle Vlad's pocket he could have just repeated the Russian government's argument that the attack was staged by Al Qaeda.

    If Trump were taking his orders from the Kremlin, I think his foreign policy would be very different from what it is.
  • Maybe he'd have a foreign policy?
  • stetson wrote: »
    My theory is that Trump's foreign policy is governed by two contradictory impulses: a) he is an isolationist who wants to avoid foreign military entanglements, and b) he wants the world to continue bowing to America as The Great Power. Bolton appealed to the latter longing, but was dangerously inconducive to the former.

    I disagree. Whilst your two points are true, Trump's foreign policy is mostly governed by his overwhelming desire to get a Nobel Peace award.

    Everything Trump does can be seen as an attempt to get revenge on Obama, who dared to ridicule him publicly. Whilst he can undo all the things that Obama did within the US, he can never take Obama's Nobel Peace prize away. So, in order to satisfy his ego, he NEEDS to match Obama and get a Nobel for himself. Hence his bizarre attempts in North Korea and Iran. He has no international strategy - he simply believes that if he can bluster enough, something will give and he'll get a Nobel nomination.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    I’m these crazy times that may yet work. :cry:
  • Heard on the radio that a couple of oil facilities in Saudi Arabia were destroyed via drone. T reportedly contacted the crown prince and offered assistance.

    ...and I'm wondering if T had something to do with it...
  • How did Obama ridicule Trump? I think of Obama as always polite and diplomatic.
  • By existing.
  • SirPalomidesSirPalomides Shipmate
    edited September 14
    They’re trying to blame the drone attack in Saudi directly on Iran. It seems to me that if Iran really wanted to attack Saudi directly the damage would be far, far greater.
  • How did Obama ridicule Trump? I think of Obama as always polite and diplomatic.

    Possibly at the White House correspondents' dinner (IIRC), when Obama was still in office. Various people did comedy, roasting various people and subjects. Barack had a turn on stage, and made a comment about T. Don't remember what it was, but I winced. T was not a happy camper, and that experience may have helped nudge him towards running for prez. (Though he didn't really *want* to be prez.)

    It's probably online somewhere. The clip surfaced in the media, during the last few years.
  • You mean this clip: https://youtu.be/k8TwRmX6zs4
  • Yes, that clip. In the comments below it, someone named Rafajafar said, "It's like witnessing the creation of a Sith Lord".*

    I agree. I do think that, though T really had it coming (and more), Barack unintentionally provoked T into running--and giving us this current mess.

    *Very bad guys in the Star Wars universe.
  • This is also why Trump will never attend another White House correspondents' dinner.
  • That was such an understated and well-aimed skewering. Really, the comment about Trump's TV show was a beautiful bit of surgery. He just went in there, opened him up and removed his credibility.
  • Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    This is also why Trump will never attend another White House correspondents' dinner.

    Unless he mostly had the stage to himself.
  • Donald Trump is an incredibly stupid man, and that stupidity is just one of the many ways he is undermining American national security. The latest example was reported this week:

    "President Donald Trump has left the impression with foreign officials, members of his administration, and others involved in Iranian negotiations that he is actively considering a French plan to extend a $15 billion credit line to the Iranians if Tehran comes back into compliance with the Obama-era nuclear deal.

    "Trump has in recent weeks shown openness to entertaining President Emmanuel Macron’s plan, according to four sources with knowledge of Trump’s conversations with the French leader. Two of those sources said that State Department officials, including Secretary Mike Pompeo, are also open to weighing the French proposal, in which the Paris government would effectively ease the economic sanctions regime that the Trump administration has applied on Tehran for more than a year.

    "The deal put forward by France would compensate Iran for oil sales disrupted by American sanctions. A large portion of Iran’s economy relies on cash from oil sales. Most of that money is frozen in bank accounts across the globe. The $15 billion credit line would be guaranteed by Iranian oil. In exchange for the cash, Iran would have to come back into compliance with the nuclear accord it signed with the world’s major powers in 2015. Tehran would also have to agree not to threaten the security of the Persian Gulf or to impede maritime navigation in the area. Lastly, Tehran would have to commit to regional Middle East talks in the future."

    Let's be clear: At the end of May, the International Atomic Energy Agency reported that Iran was still in compliance with the deal. Iran has been in compliance all along. It was Trump who first threatened to break the deal. The European Union urged Congress to preserve it. And then even though Iran was in compliance with the deal, and it was he who was threatening to break it, Trump also threatened to sanction European businesses that do business with Iran. And then Trump did break the deal. This was a crisis entirely of Trump's own making.

    Iran's leaders are not nice, but they are smart. They saw what the Bush-Cheney administration did to Iraq. Saddam Hussein was not Iran’s friend. But he did give up his weapons of mass destruction, and Bush-Cheney took advantage of that. And like all aspirants to nuclear weapons, Iranian leaders understood that they were in a better position to bargain if they had nuclear weapons than if they left themselves open to being invaded and devastated for no reason, the way Iraq was. So Iran ramped up the development of its nuclear weapons program, and then-President Obama and the European Union made a deal with them to end that program. They abided by that deal, and then Trump broke it.

    Republican presidents are dangerous to national and world security, but none more than Trump. By breaking the deal with Iran, Trump gave Iran the incentive to resume its arms program, which they have done. Which makes the world less safe. Because that's what Trump's ineptitude does: make the world less safe.

    Trump's boot-licking Secretary of State Mike Pompeo was outraged that Iran was again ramping up its nuclear weapons program, nevermind why. And with tensions again rising, Trump did what he always does on the world stage: He got his ass kicked. Now he's considering giving Iran $15 billion dollars in credit to get back in compliance with the deal with which it had always been in compliance—until Trump gave them the incentive not to be. That's Trump's "genius" in making deals: getting his ass kicked.

    (Based on G7 reports)
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    This replicates exactly Trump's usual approach to property development. He acquires a property. The property may be in great shape, may have all manner of promising advantages, may have been solidly constructed, enhanced with state-of-the-art improvements, and on and on. No matter. T inspects the property, declares it a disaster, razes it down to its subbasements, and erects a vastly inferior, cheesy, simulacrum in its place.

    He didn't "negotiate" the original agreement with Iran, so it cannot have been any good. He scrapped it. Now he's developing the architecture for a "new, improved" (because his) plan to erect the stupidest possible deal, without the slightest grasp of how his wrecking ball approach to the original deal affects our allies or our adversaries or what poison this new deal will inject into what's left of the Trump World Order (so-called).
  • ...so he's still demolishing other kids' block constructions?
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Sure. Just wait till he unveils his plan to solve the US homeless problem.
  • Gramps, spot on re Iran. Macron is doing very well internationally, not so much on the domestic front. I understand he is trying to break the power of the union movement.

    I read the Sacramento Bee a fair bit. The homeless situation gets a great deal of press in that city. All sorts of things are being tried, mostly with really good aims. They need Trump's intervention like they need assault weapons given away on street corners.

    I sometimes feel afraid around homeless people, particularly overseas when I am out of my comfort zone. I need to start volunteering again. Giving money is good, but volunteering is the bomb.
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