If dropping bombs on another country isn't an act of war, what is?
The US hasn't technically declared war in decades. It's one of many ways the US has decided that its own constitution is kind of annoying and the rule of law is for the little countries/people.
If the head of a country is able, without reference to that country's elected representatives, to initiate an act of aggression against a foreign sovereign state, can that country be viewed as a democracy in any meaningful sense of the word?
If the head of a country is able, without reference to that country's elected representatives, to initiate an act of aggression against a foreign sovereign state, can that country be viewed as a democracy in any meaningful sense of the word?
No.
I believe Blair had some sort of backing from parliament for his strikes.
This should put him in jail. If it is not kidnapping it is pretty darn close.
In the UK it was always OK for the executive to declare war without reference to the legislature. Until Cameron stuffed it up (as so many things) by insisting that he needed Parliament's backing for a strike on Syria.
The US Constitution is supposed to say otherwise though. But this has often been treated in a hazy fashion.
My problem with the Venezuelan action is not so much US constitutional issues as the further step towards "great power" politics where those with the big sticks run their patch as they see fit. I'm not shedding many tears for Maduro as a ruler, but I think Trump and Vance would be just as prepared to remove any other leader in their self-appointed "sphere of influence" if they found it expedient. Not a comforting thought!
A friend on FB pointed out, I think not unreasonably, that if the US were "at war", Trump could claim that as an excuse to cancel the midterm elections. Now that would set a dangerous precedent.
A friend on FB pointed out, I think not unreasonably, that if the US were "at war", Trump could claim that as an excuse to cancel the midterm elections. Now that would set a dangerous precedent.
Sorry, this is completely unreasonable. We have always had elections during wars. He'd need an excuse of a huge internal disruption.
The US hasn't technically declared war in decades. It's one of many ways the US has decided that its own constitution is kind of annoying and the rule of law is for the little countries/people.
It's more that Congress has ceded more and more of its power over the decades, and a majority of the American people either don't know or don't care. It's kind of stunning how little many of us know about the constitution and how the government is supposed to function.
If dropping bombs on another country isn't an act of war, what is?
And he still thinks he should get the Nobel Peace Prize ... 😳
On New Year's Eve, I wrote out my "bingo card" for 2026. Air strikes on Caracas was on there. Followed by him suing the Nobel Committee for not awarding the Peace Price.
I speculated earlier on who might be next in line - on reading an article in today's Guardian, I guess Iran, Colombia, and Cuba might be wondering if they're on the insane Trump's hit-list...
Note, I am not justifying the capture of Maduro, but this is how Trump is justifying the capture.
Maduro and his wife are indicted in the US for narco-terrorism, cociane importation conspiracy and other weapons related charges.
Trump states the operation was conducted in conjunction with US law enforcement. This is the capture of indicted fugitives rather than an act of war.
This is similar to when the US captured Manuel Noriega the president of Panama in 1990. He had been indicted for drug trafficking, racketeering and money laundering. He was also accused of threatening US citizens and interfering with US strategic interests in the region with the seizure of the Panama Canal.
One other law to consider is the War Powers Resolution of 1973 which does give the president the power to introduce the US armed forces into hostilities without congressional approval provided the president consult with congregational leaders before hostilities and report to Congress within 48 hours of doing so. If Congress does not approve of continued hostilities, the president has to withdraw forces within 60 days.
Since this is a CIA operation, the War Powers Resolution does not generally apply, though. Now if, the military were used in support of the operation, the WPR should be applied.
A friend on FB pointed out, I think not unreasonably, that if the US were "at war", Trump could claim that as an excuse to cancel the midterm elections. Now that would set a dangerous precedent.
Sorry, this is completely unreasonable. We have always had elections during wars. He'd need an excuse of a huge internal disruption.
And given that elections were held during the Civil War, any such internal disruption would need to exceed the nation being at war with itself. That's an exceptionally high bar.
A friend on FB pointed out, I think not unreasonably, that if the US were "at war", Trump could claim that as an excuse to cancel the midterm elections. Now that would set a dangerous precedent.
Sorry, this is completely unreasonable. We have always had elections during wars. He'd need an excuse of a huge internal disruption.
And given that elections were held during the Civil War, any such internal disruption would need to exceed the nation being at war with itself. That's an exceptionally high bar.
He'd claim things are worse than they really are, but yeah, it would be a hard sell. And it would be hard to do for other reasons, given that the states hold the elections and his efforts to nationalize states' National Guard troops just got stomped on.
Trump seems to think he's effectively annexed Venezuela, and intends to 'run the country'.
I know the US has immense resources, but is this a realistic view?
We do not have immense resources. This is all in Trump's head.
In fact, the US recognizes Edmundo Gonzalez as the president elect of Venezuela following the disputed 2024 election. He should be installed as President.
But there is the old saw, if you break it, you own it.
I would hope Congress or SCOTUS would limit the power Trump is claiming.
A friend on FB pointed out, I think not unreasonably, that if the US were "at war", Trump could claim that as an excuse to cancel the midterm elections. Now that would set a dangerous precedent.
Your FB friend is displaying their ignorance, something for which FB seems ideally suited. As @Ruth and @Alan Cresswell point out, it is a totally unreasonable speculation.
Trump seems to think he's effectively annexed Venezuela, and intends to 'run the country'.
I know the US has immense resources, but is this a realistic view?
We do not have immense resources. This is all in Trump's head.
In fact, the US recognizes Edmundo Gonzalez as the president elect of Venezuela following the disputed 2024 election. He should be installed as President.
But there is the old saw, if you break it, you own it.
I would hope Congress or SCOTUS would limit the power Trump is claiming.
From Trump’s perspective I imagine this advances various agendas whilst distracting his base from the Epstein story (though I suspect that it will be a less effective distraction than he hopes).
If dropping bombs on another country isn't an act of war, what is?
And he still thinks he should get the Nobel Peace Prize ... 😳
No, no. It's a police action. That's what Hegseth, or someone equally respected, said. He is making the world a safer place for the rest of us. Like Vietnam, remember? That was a police action, according to certain of the Texans I worked with many years ago.
...one sometimes gets the false impression that the US is all-powerful.
That's kinda the view held by anti-American tankies, who claim eg. that pro-US governments in other countries have no democratic legitimacy, because the people there just voted that way because they were terrified of an American invasion if they didn't.
Interestingly, it also seems to be the view of American power held by Mr. Donald J. Trump, but in a morally inverted form.
From Trump’s perspective I imagine this advances various agendas whilst distracting his base from the Epstein story (though I suspect that it will be a less effective distraction than he hopes).
Well, the leaders of the MAGA faction most pro-transparency on Epstein, basically Rand Paul, Thomas Massie, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, are also the ones most hostile to attacking Venezuela. Greene tweeted something yesterday implying that the US shouldn't be trying to overthrow Maduro, because his government has strict laws against abortion.
How much this combo trickles down to the average America Firster at the pancake house, I don't know. It might depend on a) how long the current intervention in Venezuela lasts, and b) how scandalous the next round of Epstein documents is.
Any major discussion of the Venezuelan situation needs to go to Purgatory - and then be discussed seriously rather than Hell-style, with due attention to informed American perspectives.
This was posted by Occupy Democrats six hours ago:
BREAKING: MADMAN! Trump threatens Mexico’s president Claudia Sheinbaum just hours after kidnapping Venezuela’s president in an illegal and unconstitutional attack!
America awoke to the shocking news that Trump, Marco Rubio, and Stephen Miller had deployed US troops to attack Venezuela and kidnap President Maduro and his wife in a staggering violation of international law and American law.
But it appears he’s already salivating over his next target — the immensely popular president of Mexico, Claudia Sheinbaum.
Speaking to Fox and Friends, Trump said that "the cartels are running Mexico. She's not running Mexico. We could be politically correct and be nice and say, 'Oh, yes, she is.' No no. She's very frightened of the cartels. They're running Mexico. And I've asked her number times, 'Would you like us to take out the cartels?' ... something is gonna have to be done with Mexico.”
Not 12 hours have passed and he's already planning his next illegal attack against a sovereign country.
The entire narrative that America needed to take out Maduro because of “drug running” is even lazier than the imaginary “weapons of mass destruction” that the Bush administration lied about in order to start the Iraq War.
Donald Trump pardoned a drug-trafficking ex-president of Honduras not TWO MONTHS AGO. This is all just an excuse to flex American power and engage in naked gangsterism in order to steal oil resources and to depose left-wing leaders in an ideological purge, no matter the consequences for the people of those countries.
Donald Trump is the biggest threat to world peace in the world. He is unhinged, constantly breaking the law, and deteriorating into the throes of dementia. He needs to be removed from office ASAP.
If he does anything against Mexico in the next few months, that will get very awkward with the men's football world cup, which the US and Mexico are sharing with Canada.
Remind me, which organisation concocted a peace prize for the doddery old sleepyhead?
Never mind the excuse for invading Venezuela about its supposed drug export to the USA. It is frequently pointed out that Venezuela's drug 'export' to USA is substantially less than the drug shipped into USA from Mexico and Columbia . I have maintained that Trump aiming first at Venezuela is that has substantial oil. So their first move was to confiscate V's tankers and take it to USA, started several weeks before their land invasion.
So, I have maintained for weeks that the real reason for Trump's takeover is to help his oil companies to take over the sources in Venezuela. No doubt that the oil companies will give thanks to Trump , e.g. by giving him some free shares.
A friend on FB pointed out, I think not unreasonably, that if the US were "at war", Trump could claim that as an excuse to cancel the midterm elections. Now that would set a dangerous precedent.
The US held mid-term elections in 1942, and a presidential election in 1944, whilst heavily engaged in a World War. Trump can and will do whatever he likes, lying piece of crap that he is, but being technically "at war" is not a valid reason to cancel an election.
Such outrageous behavior should be met with freezing out by other countries so that the USA will be isolated. Trump has become another Hitler, but on steroids.
Such outrageous behavior should be met with freezing out by other countries so that the USA will be isolated. Trump has become another Hitler, but on steroids.
Adderall, allegedly. Like if Göring had been Führer.
Comments
Maybe Orson Welles? It was his version of the story which supposedly had people believing it was real.
Ah, but it's not technically a war. [/sarcasm]
China will most likely not sit still for this interferense with its oil supply.
AFF
And he still thinks he should get the Nobel Peace Prize ... 😳
The US hasn't technically declared war in decades. It's one of many ways the US has decided that its own constitution is kind of annoying and the rule of law is for the little countries/people.
No.
I believe Blair had some sort of backing from parliament for his strikes.
This should put him in jail. If it is not kidnapping it is pretty darn close.
The US Constitution is supposed to say otherwise though. But this has often been treated in a hazy fashion.
My problem with the Venezuelan action is not so much US constitutional issues as the further step towards "great power" politics where those with the big sticks run their patch as they see fit. I'm not shedding many tears for Maduro as a ruler, but I think Trump and Vance would be just as prepared to remove any other leader in their self-appointed "sphere of influence" if they found it expedient. Not a comforting thought!
Mad and frightening times, indeed.
Sorry, this is completely unreasonable. We have always had elections during wars. He'd need an excuse of a huge internal disruption.
It's more that Congress has ceded more and more of its power over the decades, and a majority of the American people either don't know or don't care. It's kind of stunning how little many of us know about the constitution and how the government is supposed to function.
On New Year's Eve, I wrote out my "bingo card" for 2026. Air strikes on Caracas was on there. Followed by him suing the Nobel Committee for not awarding the Peace Price.
As far as the special military operation in Venezuela is concerned, we in the UK are being told that We Had No Involvement. I hope this is True™.
I speculated earlier on who might be next in line - on reading an article in today's Guardian, I guess Iran, Colombia, and Cuba might be wondering if they're on the insane Trump's hit-list...
Yes, that's the article I referred to earlier.
Maduro and his wife are indicted in the US for narco-terrorism, cociane importation conspiracy and other weapons related charges.
Trump states the operation was conducted in conjunction with US law enforcement. This is the capture of indicted fugitives rather than an act of war.
This is similar to when the US captured Manuel Noriega the president of Panama in 1990. He had been indicted for drug trafficking, racketeering and money laundering. He was also accused of threatening US citizens and interfering with US strategic interests in the region with the seizure of the Panama Canal.
Since this is a CIA operation, the War Powers Resolution does not generally apply, though. Now if, the military were used in support of the operation, the WPR should be applied.
I know the US has immense resources, but is this a realistic view?
He'd claim things are worse than they really are, but yeah, it would be a hard sell. And it would be hard to do for other reasons, given that the states hold the elections and his efforts to nationalize states' National Guard troops just got stomped on.
We do not have immense resources. This is all in Trump's head.
In fact, the US recognizes Edmundo Gonzalez as the president elect of Venezuela following the disputed 2024 election. He should be installed as President.
But there is the old saw, if you break it, you own it.
I would hope Congress or SCOTUS would limit the power Trump is claiming.
I don't think so. We don't have the troops for it, never mind a plan. We've just massively destabilized another sovereign country.
Thank you, both. You confirm what I thought, but one sometimes gets the false impression that the US is all-powerful.
No, no. It's a police action. That's what Hegseth, or someone equally respected, said. He is making the world a safer place for the rest of us. Like Vietnam, remember? That was a police action, according to certain of the Texans I worked with many years ago.
These things are almost never “surgical strikes” or “over by Christmas”.
And external coups will always lead to grass roots resistance at some level.
That's kinda the view held by anti-American tankies, who claim eg. that pro-US governments in other countries have no democratic legitimacy, because the people there just voted that way because they were terrified of an American invasion if they didn't.
Interestingly, it also seems to be the view of American power held by Mr. Donald J. Trump, but in a morally inverted form.
Well, the leaders of the MAGA faction most pro-transparency on Epstein, basically Rand Paul, Thomas Massie, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, are also the ones most hostile to attacking Venezuela. Greene tweeted something yesterday implying that the US shouldn't be trying to overthrow Maduro, because his government has strict laws against abortion.
How much this combo trickles down to the average America Firster at the pancake house, I don't know. It might depend on a) how long the current intervention in Venezuela lasts, and b) how scandalous the next round of Epstein documents is.
Remind me, which organisation concocted a peace prize for the doddery old sleepyhead?
So, I have maintained for weeks that the real reason for Trump's takeover is to help his oil companies to take over the sources in Venezuela. No doubt that the oil companies will give thanks to Trump , e.g. by giving him some free shares.
The US held mid-term elections in 1942, and a presidential election in 1944, whilst heavily engaged in a World War. Trump can and will do whatever he likes, lying piece of crap that he is, but being technically "at war" is not a valid reason to cancel an election.
Adderall, allegedly. Like if Göring had been Führer.