According to Google, the expression came from a Dr Kitchiner, who lived in the late 18th/early 19th century and advocated a nap of about 40 minutes to rejuvenate yourself during the day.
I used to have a boss who would shut himself in his office for a short time (not quite as long as 40 minutes, but maybe 10 or 15) and emerge feeling fresh as a daisy, so maybe Dr Kitchiner was on to something!
I have just used the phrase "Come back (name) all is forgiven!" which I think probably comes from a Victorian novel?
There's a new Robin Hood series out, which looks appallingly bad, so I commented "Come back, Errol Flynn, all is forgiven!"
My grandmother, born 1890, used 'like billio' or 'billy-o' as a superlative as in, 'we laughed like billio' or 'it rained like billio'. I've never heard anyone else say that. Has anyone else? I have no idea what the derivation was and Google says it doesn't either. It must have been a popular expression sometime between 1895 and 1910.
My grandmother, born 1890, used 'like billio' or 'billy-o' as a superlative as in, 'we laughed like billio' or 'it rained like billio'. I've never heard anyone else say that. Has anyone else? I have no idea what the derivation was and Google says it doesn't either. It must have been a popular expression sometime between 1895 and 1910.
Google found loads of pages about it for me, but the most interesting was about an origin named after a nonconformist minister from Essex in 1696 who preached lengthy sermons, but he predates the use if the word by several centuries. https://www.worldwidewords.org/tw-bil1.html
My grandmother, born 1890, used 'like billio' or 'billy-o' as a superlative as in, 'we laughed like billio' or 'it rained like billio'. I've never heard anyone else say that. Has anyone else? I have no idea what the derivation was and Google says it doesn't either. It must have been a popular expression sometime between 1895 and 1910.
My Mum used it a lot (Wilts, born 1933) and her parents were born about 1890. I still use it, but I don't think my kids do.
Complete speculation: could it be a reference to William of Orange, and his turning up in London with a massive fleet? I could see William of Orange turning into "Billy O" in late 17th and early 18th century London.
Complete speculation: could it be a reference to William of Orange, and his turning up in London with a massive fleet? I could see William of Orange turning into "Billy O" in late 17th and early 18th century London.
Complete speculation: could it be a reference to William of Orange, and his turning up in London with a massive fleet? I could see William of Orange turning into "Billy O" in late 17th and early 18th century London.
That’s a very good call.
Yes maybe, but it first appeared much later according to the page I quoted earlier:
The first recorded use is in the phrase “Shure it’ll rain like billy-oh!”, from The Record of 1885, in which the spelling of sure hints at an Irish origin. If it is Irish it might indeed be thought to have something to do with William III, who burned his name into Irish memory at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. But two centuries is a long time, even in Irish history.
Very common here in Australia for many years. If of 1885 origin, it travelled quickly, as my great-grandmother [b.1871] and grandmother [b.1891] both urban dwellers used it. Still heard here in our country town.
My googling suggest an origin in music hall songs about 'Billy O'Rourke' of the 1840s, or, more broadly, an Irish origin.
There have been instances - Lillibullero - of Irish words being anglicised, but not knowing Gaeilge I don't know a word or phrase which could be the basis.
Complete speculation: could it be a reference to William of Orange, and his turning up in London with a massive fleet? I could see William of Orange turning into "Billy O" in late 17th and early 18th century London.
That’s a very good call.
Yes maybe, but it first appeared much later according to the page I quoted earlier:
The first recorded use is in the phrase “Shure it’ll rain like billy-oh!”, from The Record of 1885, in which the spelling of sure hints at an Irish origin. If it is Irish it might indeed be thought to have something to do with William III, who burned his name into Irish memory at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. But two centuries is a long time, even in Irish history.
Of course first recorded use is often much later than actual use. Research can be patchy too - I saw a phrase a few years ago listed with a first use in the 1980s when I had a book on my shelf considerably older that used it. But yes, an Irish rather than London origin for referring to William of Orange is more plausible.
It's a very long time since I used or heard 'billyo', but I'll say 'like the blazes' almost every day, generally as a substitute for something less acceptable in polite company. For example, the hailstorm we had yesterday was hammering down like the blazes, no matter how nonsensical that sounds.
Just don't get them muddled - "throwing the baby into a corner" would no doubt (and rightly) attract the attention of Social Services, paint or no paint.
I use “throwing the baby out with the bath water “ and “like Billyo”
Is “throwing the baby out..” a reference to “My baby has gone down the plug hole…”?
Do others talk of things "going pear-shaped" when they go wrong?
Funny you should ask. My wife and I heard that in something we were watching a few nights ago—a British show, as it happens, and it was said by an older person—and my wife asked “what does that mean?” I’d heard it before and knew what it meant, but I don’t know that I’ve ever said it myself.
My estimable friend S shared a story today from some 40 years ago.
He and his brother were in a car with grandad. Grandad suddenly stopped the car and, opening the car door explained, 'I'm just going to see a man about a dog'. A few minutes later he returned and off they went. S said he and his brother (age 8 & 10) were very disappointed about the lack of a dog!
I shall have fun trying some phrases out with my new step-grandson age 8. Fr'instance: 'show a leg'; 'best foot forward'; 'tell it to the marines', and no doubt, many others!
My brother and I felt exactly the same about the lack of a dog when our dad used that same phrase! He also used to say 'Let the dog see the rabbit' if he wanted more elbow room for the task in hand - cue disappointment re rabbit!
A friend of mine was learning to speak English and we taught her loads of these expressions. She created a whole song that started off I'm going to see a man about a dog - in a while, crocodile (cheeky monkey!)
A friend of mine was learning to speak English and we taught her loads of these expressions. She created a whole song that started off I'm going to see a man about a dog - in a while, crocodile (cheeky monkey!)
I work in engineering, and we have a new Iranian colleague whose technical knowledge is very good, and whose (self-taught) English vocabulary is also excellent - as he grows in confidence in spoken English I think he's going to be great. We've been trying to help him out with useful idiom - the other day we covered 'backlash' and on the same lines but more fun, the difference between 'clink', 'clank', 'clonk' and 'clunk' (I know the word which describes words which make the sound suggested by the word itself, but I'm blowed if I'm going to try and spell it). Funny how there's no 'clenk'. Unless you're the late Queen and talking about the sound made by one's levatory cistern if one pulls the chain too vigorously, perheps
A friend of mine was learning to speak English and we taught her loads of these expressions. She created a whole song that started off I'm going to see a man about a dog - in a while, crocodile (cheeky monkey!)
All around my hat I will wear the green willow
All around my hat for a twelvemonth and a day
I learned that song in school (teacher was a Maddy Prior fan) and was surprised to learn it was not by Trad Anon but by the Chief Womble himself, Mike Batt!
Returning you to your regularly scheduled discussion…
I learned that song in school (teacher was a Maddy Prior fan) and was surprised to learn it was not by Trad Anon but by the Chief Womble himself, Mike Batt!
I didn't know that, but am not surprised - he was a prolific songwriter in the 70s. All sorts of hits were written by him. And yet, he is mainly known for the Wombles!
All around my hat I will wear the green willow
All around my hat for a twelvemonth and a day
I learned that song in school (teacher was a Maddy Prior fan) and was surprised to learn it was not by Trad Anon but by the Chief Womble himself, Mike Batt!
Returning you to your regularly scheduled discussion…
Most old folk songs were written in the last few decades. Tom Lehrer used to introduce the Irish Ballad as an ancient folk song he'd written a few years earlier.
Folk such as Cerys Hafana, Patrick Rimes and Lleuwen have done a lot of digging around in the Welsh National Library for old folk songs, which they have then arranged and presented in public. The results have been amazing, even for non-Welsh speakers such as myself.
Bar one consciously mannered radio presenter, I've never heard sennight (for a week) spoken or written.
I've used it on multiple occasions, but mostly to twit Americans. (Shortly after moving here, I used fortnight all innocence, and got a room full of blank looks back. So I started deliberately using 'sennight'.)
All around my hat I will wear the green willow
All around my hat for a twelvemonth and a day
I learned that song in school (teacher was a Maddy Prior fan) and was surprised to learn it was not by Trad Anon but by the Chief Womble himself, Mike Batt!
Returning you to your regularly scheduled discussion…
Most old folk songs were written in the last few decades. Tom Lehrer used to introduce the Irish Ballad as an ancient folk song he'd written a few years earlier.
Most? There certainly are quite a few songs that people think are “old folk songs,” but that are actually of fairly recent origin—decades, or at least going back no further than the 19th C. But there are volumes of songs that go back centuries.
Which raises the questions: What exactly makes a song a “folk song,” and how old does it need to be to be considered a “old” folk song?
I've just been up to Manchester, and I want to sing some Manchester songs when I go to my regular open mic next week. I have a CD by a reggae group called Edward II which takes traditional ballads about Manchester from the 19thC and puts them to a reggae beat! It works surprisingly well, and they are genuinely old songs, so I'm practicing the title track "Manchester's Improving Daily" at the moment.
Edward II are very good indeed. Neither the Knotweed nor I are particular fans of reggae but we were at the back when they played Cropredy and about two songs in looked at each other and said "We need to be at the front!"
Comments
I was scratching my head for 'wick' earlier - I had friends at university from N'ards!
I'd thought this usage of 'lush' was a purely west country phenomenon. Though I imagine it sounds pretty different in the two accents.
I used to have a boss who would shut himself in his office for a short time (not quite as long as 40 minutes, but maybe 10 or 15) and emerge feeling fresh as a daisy, so maybe Dr Kitchiner was on to something!
I used - a few years ago - "Cute as a button" - and it really struck me that this was an odd expression.
And their origins are less important than the sad fact that they are dying out.
Never mind, we'll soon all be pushing up the daisies!
Thanks to a certain humorous sketch that one will never be an ex-metaphor.
There's a new Robin Hood series out, which looks appallingly bad, so I commented "Come back, Errol Flynn, all is forgiven!"
Google found loads of pages about it for me, but the most interesting was about an origin named after a nonconformist minister from Essex in 1696 who preached lengthy sermons, but he predates the use if the word by several centuries. https://www.worldwidewords.org/tw-bil1.html
My Mum used it a lot (Wilts, born 1933) and her parents were born about 1890. I still use it, but I don't think my kids do.
Yes maybe, but it first appeared much later according to the page I quoted earlier:
The first recorded use is in the phrase “Shure it’ll rain like billy-oh!”, from The Record of 1885, in which the spelling of sure hints at an Irish origin. If it is Irish it might indeed be thought to have something to do with William III, who burned his name into Irish memory at the Battle of the Boyne in 1690. But two centuries is a long time, even in Irish history.
There have been instances - Lillibullero - of Irish words being anglicised, but not knowing Gaeilge I don't know a word or phrase which could be the basis.
Of course first recorded use is often much later than actual use. Research can be patchy too - I saw a phrase a few years ago listed with a first use in the 1980s when I had a book on my shelf considerably older that used it. But yes, an Irish rather than London origin for referring to William of Orange is more plausible.
All around my hat for a twelvemonth and a day
Bar one consciously mannered radio presenter, I've never heard sennight (for a week) spoken or written.
A favourite song. Also the adaptation, "All around my cat..."
Throwing the baby out with the bathwater, and
Painting oneself into a corner
Is “throwing the baby out..” a reference to “My baby has gone down the plug hole…”?
Do others talk of things "going pear-shaped" when they go wrong?
He and his brother were in a car with grandad. Grandad suddenly stopped the car and, opening the car door explained, 'I'm just going to see a man about a dog'. A few minutes later he returned and off they went. S said he and his brother (age 8 & 10) were very disappointed about the lack of a dog!
I shall have fun trying some phrases out with my new step-grandson age 8. Fr'instance: 'show a leg'; 'best foot forward'; 'tell it to the marines', and no doubt, many others!
I work in engineering, and we have a new Iranian colleague whose technical knowledge is very good, and whose (self-taught) English vocabulary is also excellent - as he grows in confidence in spoken English I think he's going to be great. We've been trying to help him out with useful idiom - the other day we covered 'backlash' and on the same lines but more fun, the difference between 'clink', 'clank', 'clonk' and 'clunk' (I know the word which describes words which make the sound suggested by the word itself, but I'm blowed if I'm going to try and spell it). Funny how there's no 'clenk'. Unless you're the late Queen and talking about the sound made by one's levatory cistern if one pulls the chain too vigorously, perheps
Love to see the lyrics/hear that
I learned that song in school (teacher was a Maddy Prior fan) and was surprised to learn it was not by Trad Anon but by the Chief Womble himself, Mike Batt!
Returning you to your regularly scheduled discussion…
I didn't know that, but am not surprised - he was a prolific songwriter in the 70s. All sorts of hits were written by him. And yet, he is mainly known for the Wombles!
Most old folk songs were written in the last few decades. Tom Lehrer used to introduce the Irish Ballad as an ancient folk song he'd written a few years earlier.
But we digress ...
I've used it on multiple occasions, but mostly to twit Americans. (Shortly after moving here, I used fortnight all innocence, and got a room full of blank looks back. So I started deliberately using 'sennight'.)
Which raises the questions: What exactly makes a song a “folk song,” and how old does it need to be to be considered a “old” folk song?