›

Light (6?&7) of the world

jay_emmjay_emm Kerygmania Host
in Kerygmania
The topic of light seemed to run out of steam a bit, but it's near Easter.

Jesus in John 8:12 says "I am the light of the world.
While in Matthew 5:14 he says I am "the light if the world"

How do we reconcile these?

John obviously further expands on the light theme. And we can talk about us.

How are we included in "You are", not sure...

Comments

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    My Bible says Matthew 5:14 says "You are the light of the world."
  • jay_emmjay_emm Kerygmania Host
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    My Bible says Matthew 5:14 says "You are the light of the world."
    So if he was talking to us* then we can say "Jay_emm and Gramps49 are lights of the world"

    *I'll be a bit disappointed if no-one questions that.
  • TurquoiseTasticTurquoiseTastic Kerygmania Host
    I think this is very much in line with the idea that we, the Church, are the primary way in which other people are going to see and encounter Jesus.

    It's also in line with the idea of being "in Christ" or being "Christ's body". We are identified with him in this way.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    TurquoiseTastic wrote: »
    I think this is very much in line with the idea that we, the Church, are the primary way in which other people are going to see and encounter Jesus.

    It's also in line with the idea of being "in Christ" or being "Christ's body". We are identified with him in this way.
    That’s how I’ve always understood it.


  • LatchKeyKidLatchKeyKid Shipmate
    The context of how Matthew has used this metaphor is
    13 ‘You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how can its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything, but is thrown out and trampled under foot.

    14 ‘You are the light of the world. A city built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15No one after lighting a lamp puts it under the bushel basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father in heaven.

    Matthew is saying that this is what Jesus' expectation of his disciples is; with a warning that if you do not do this you are not much chop as a Christian.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    13 ‘You are the salt of the earth; but if salt has lost its taste, how can its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything, but is thrown out and trampled under foot.

    Did a small talk on this once. I pointed out that in Jesus' day salt was not pure sodium chloride. It came from mostly evaporated pools and was full of impurities--gypsum, minerals, even sand and other sediments. If that ancient salt was exposed to humidity, rain or poor storage, the sodium chloride would have dissolved away leaving a tasteless residue.
  • LatchKeyKidLatchKeyKid Shipmate
    I understand that.
    I just meant that the two metaphors were saying the same thing, perhaps to reinforce each other.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited 2:00AM
    jay_emm wrote: »
    While in Matthew 5:14 he says I am "the light if the world"
    Actually, I think he says we are “the light of the world.”

    The “you” there is plural. So I think it’s up to interpretation whether that means each of us or all of us together.

    Given that Jesus goes on to say “let your light shine” rather than “let your lights shine,” I tend to lean to the interpretation that we collectively are called to be the light (singular) of the world.

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    jay_emm wrote: »
    The topic of light seemed to run out of steam a bit, but it's near Easter.

    Jesus in John 8:12 says "I am the light of the world.
    While in Matthew 5:14 he says I am "the light [o]f the world"

    How do we reconcile these?

    1. I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
    2. Why do you think he means you? You weren't there. He was talking to the Apostles.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    edited 2:48AM
    mousethief wrote: »
    2. Why do you think he means you? You weren't there. He was talking to the Apostles.
    I know we had at least a little bit of discussion recently on whether Jesus was talking only to the disciples in the Sermon on the Mount, or whether he was talking to the disciples and to the gathered crowd, but I can’t for the life of me remember which thread that was in.


    ETA: It was “Becoming tasteless in Matthew 5:13,” starting here.

  • LatchKeyKidLatchKeyKid Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    jay_emm wrote: »
    While in Matthew 5:14 he says I am "the light if the world"
    Actually, I think he says we are “the light of the world.”

    The “you” there is plural. So I think it’s up to interpretation whether that means each of us or all of us together.

    Given that Jesus goes on to say “let your light shine” rather than “let your lights shine,” I tend to lean to the interpretation that we collectively are called to be the light (singular) of the world.

    Why does a plural "you" mean "we"?
  • LatchKeyKidLatchKeyKid Shipmate
    LatchKeyKid wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    jay_emm wrote: »
    While in Matthew 5:14 he says I am "the light if the world"
    Actually, I think he says we are “the light of the world.”

    The “you” there is plural. So I think it’s up to interpretation whether that means each of us or all of us together.

    Given that Jesus goes on to say “let your light shine” rather than “let your lights shine,” I tend to lean to the interpretation that we collectively are called to be the light (singular) of the world.

    Why does a plural "you" mean "we"?

    Ah! You mean it is a collective "You (disciples as a group)
  • jay_emmjay_emm Kerygmania Host
    mousethief wrote: »
    jay_emm wrote: »
    The topic of light seemed to run out of steam a bit, but it's near Easter.

    Jesus in John 8:12 says "I am the light of the world.
    While in Matthew 5:14 he says I am "the light [o]f the world"

    How do we reconcile these?

    1. I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
    2. Why do you think he means you? You weren't there. He was talking to the Apostles.
    (1) I'm not sure if that's:
    you also playing with how quoted pronouns are ambiguous.
    Or
    A humourous way of saying what Turquoise said about being ambassadors of Christ.
    (2)
    Before the question. There were lots of little reasons for writing it that way. The distinction between you as a collection and you each probably wouldn't have come up.
    I also do think it's debatable.

    As to the question why do I think it applies to us all, and not just the 12...
    It is from the sermon on the mount, so I do think Jesus was referring to more than the 12 (if there was some rhetorical device Jesus used to specify the apostles for the crowds, Matthew could have recorded it. And if it was a private break, similarly).

    And if (a lot of assumptions here) it was addressed to all present then it seems unlikely that they were the only people who could be referred to that way (and similar metaphors are used elsewhere to people who presumbably weren't all there, I need to look them up). And maybe to all who follow via catch up
Sign In or Register to comment.