Ok. @Gramps49, I'm more than happy to receive a taste of my own medicine. You just don't do it very well. Nor did you notice that at least one poster had assumed that because windows in US buses and trains apparently open wide enough for a thin person to squeeze through then it must be the same elsewhere.
Just as I had made similar assumptions in reverse, that there might be windows that open on US buses and trains.
That wasn't cross-Pond point scoring, but an observation to reinforce one that @Lamb Chopped made.
On the gearbox incident I should have made it clear that not all US visitors who hire cars here drive around without changing gear and yes, the car hire company should make provision for hirers' possible unfamiliarity with manual gear change or make vehicles with automatic gears available to them where possible.
I simply used it as an example of assumptions and should have made it clearer that it wasn't an attack on US visitors per se.
Equally, the fact that I've seen visitors from other countries not knowing how to order drinks or food in British pubs doesn't imply any value judgement on them. 'Tut! Tut! Tsk! Tsk! Why didn't they read a guidebook?'
No, it's not their 'fault' and where possible I help people out in such circumstances - as should other customers, the bar staff or the pub landlord.
Likewise British people shouldn't leave it to the oddballs to speak to strangers and visitors on trains. I've seen plenty of instances where they do, and plenty where they don't.
You are well travelled. Not everyone is. I often think that the UK must be a very confusing destination outside of the main cities and major tourist destinations. I've had a lot more help and assistance off the beaten track in Ireland, Spain, France and elsewhere than what I might reasonably expect in some parts of the UK.
It does vary though.
I've met travellers and tourists whose experiences here make me feel proud to be British. Others whose experiences make me feel the opposite.
Anyhow... on the teasing and leg-pulling thing. Yes, I over do it. No, text based media doesn't lend itself to it. I will try to amend my ways.
I know Shipmates will hold my feet to the fire if I don't but I ought to get into the habit of not doing it anyway, for all the reasons posters have cited.
Many, many years ago I visited a pen-pal and her husband who at the time lived in Burton-on-Trent. Being American, I prepared for my visit by perusing a guide book. One thing I read was that no Englishman would ever be inhospitable to a stranger.
My hosts were quite willing to take me to whatever tourist spots I wanted to visit. One day we visited Stratford-on-Avon to do the Shakespeare thing. On the way home, it was tea time and we were looking for a place to stop for tea. We spotted what appeared to be a restaurant -- we weren't actually sure -- and went in. We made ourselves comfortable at a table in what appeared to be a parlor. No one else was there.
After several minutes a woman came in looking rather surprised to see us. "We'd like tea, please" we told her. "Oh, yes, tea," she replied, and disappeared into the kitchen. After what seemed like an eternity she came back in with a pot of tea and a plate of sandwiches.
We do not know to this day if we were in a restaurant or in a private home.
Do you know what time it was? I wonder if it was outside of the usual opening hours. It sounds like it was a tea room, as a private home wouldn't resemble a tea room or café (I wouldn't consider either to be a restaurant). English people are just regular people, and can be hospitable or inhospitable just like anyone else. I find the assignation of "X is a naturally hospitable culture" to be a bit weird and othering.
I've heard people say that the French can be cold and inhospitable but that's never been my experience travelling in France.
I do think our opening and licensing hours can be confusing.
I've seen tourists frustrated when they turn up at a castle or other historic building and find it closed.
It also infuriates me when I've seen National Trust guides pushing the benefits of membership to visitors who aren't going to be here long enough to visit more than one or two properties.
Many tearooms and cafes close around 4pm which puzzles and frustrates visitors.
There's also an assumption that pubs will always serve food. An American clergy friend stayed above a pub in North Wales and was appalled to find they didn't do evening meals and only had 'chicken-feet' and pork-scratchings available behind the bar. There was nowhere else to get anything to eat for miles.
Things vary. I once helped a German woman get the bus to Harrogate from Leeds. She had wandered round the city centre for an hour meeting only shrugs and 'Sorry love, I don't understand you ...'
It was difficult to work out what she was asking I must admit but by slowing down and listening I was eventually able to understand her request for help.
I'm no great shakes and am not blowing my own trumpet but as someone who has got into scrapes travelling, I like to help or at least welcome visitors when I can.
I once helped out a Chinese girl who was trying to get a bus out of Hay - on a Bank Holiday weekend! She told me her friends had told her how to use the buses in England, and my immediate reaction was: "On a Bank Holiday? Do they hate you?"
She managed to find a bus eventually.
@Gamma Gamaliel chicken feet?? Do you mean actual chicken feet or are they a name for something else? I actually love chicken feet but I've not encountered them as a snack outside of East/Southeast Asian food. Seems a bit incongruous for North Wales!
This is not a rude experience. When we flew into Frankfort, I stayed in the waiting area while other family members were off to retrieve our luggage and get the car we rented. Meanwhile a Chinese tour group of about 100 people parked themselves in the same part of the waiting area. One Chinese woman started rummaging through her backpack and then handed me a bottle of water. The only Chinese expression I knew was xiè‑xie which means Thank you. (Use it quite often when we eat at Chinese establishments).
It meant a lot to me. In spite of not being a part of her group, in spite of the language barrier, she extended a kindness to someone she did not know.
@Gamma Gamaliel chicken feet?? Do you mean actual chicken feet or are they a name for something else? I actually love chicken feet but I've not encountered them as a snack outside of East/Southeast Asian food. Seems a bit incongruous for North Wales!
I think my friend was being sarcastic. All they had were pork scratchings and the like so he used the term 'chicken feet' as a catch-all for unappetising snacky things which probably consisted of discarded body parts.
Today in church, on the general topic of having a servant-heart, we were told "Don't be the person who complains that it's hot and stuffy - be the person who gets up and opens a window!!"
I managed to turn my snort of laughter into a reasonable approximation of a cough.
To go back to the OP - if I was on a train or bus and wanted to open a window, I'd ask the person sitting behind me but not the one in front (who wouldn't get the draught).
That's assuming the seats faced forwards - which isn't always the case!
The older double deckers used to have windows you could push open and even in a hot summer could cause one hell of an unwanted draught, particularly in the back of the bus. You didn't notice so much in the front
Once on a New York City bus, a woman opened a window despite stickers attached to each window that read "Air conditioned bus, do not open window." The A/C was working fine. When I closed the window and reminded the woman of the sticker, she launched into a diatribe addressed to the child who was traveling with her: "What a shame we have to share the bus with such stupid people," etc.
Of course she was referring to me, but I refrained from pointing out that she was actually referring to herself. The pity of it was that the child had to endure such stupidity.
The older double deckers used to have windows you could push open and even in a hot summer could cause one hell of an unwanted draught, particularly in the back of the bus. You didn't notice so much in the front
Sure, but can you remember when smoking was allowed on the top deck?
The older double deckers used to have windows you could push open and even in a hot summer could cause one hell of an unwanted draught, particularly in the back of the bus. You didn't notice so much in the front
Sure, but can you remember when smoking was allowed on the top deck?
Heavy smog.
I remember flying to Baltimore, Maryland several times as a child to visit my family. There were adults all around me smoking on what was in those days quite a long flight.
It was vile.
The older double deckers used to have windows you could push open and even in a hot summer could cause one hell of an unwanted draught, particularly in the back of the bus. You didn't notice so much in the front
Sure, but can you remember when smoking was allowed on the top deck?
Heavy smog.
Yes I remember that. My dad smoked so I often ended up on the top deck. I also remember the cinema when (facing the screen) the left half was none smoking and the right half was smoking. Made very little difference when watching a popular film.
The older double deckers used to have windows you could push open and even in a hot summer could cause one hell of an unwanted draught, particularly in the back of the bus. You didn't notice so much in the front
Sure, but can you remember when smoking was allowed on the top deck?
Once on a New York City bus, a woman opened a window despite stickers attached to each window that read "Air conditioned bus, do not open window." The A/C was working fine. When I closed the window and reminded the woman of the sticker, she launched into a diatribe addressed to the child who was traveling with her: "What a shame we have to share the bus with such stupid people," etc.
Of course she was referring to me, but I refrained from pointing out that she was actually referring to herself. The pity of it was that the child had to endure such stupidity.
Was she American? I wonder if she was from a cultural background such as German or Swiss, where there is a real mania around lüften aka opening windows, even if there's a blizzard outside. Some cultures have a real obsession with opening windows and think that AC or fans with the windows closed is somehow unhygienic or even dangerous. Not justifying her reaction at all though.
I've never forgotten having a coughing fit on the Scouts bus on the way to summer camp, opening the window to expectorate a sizeable volume of phlegm...
...and someone two open windows behind me getting it right in the face!
I've never forgotten having a coughing fit on the Scouts bus on the way to summer camp, opening the window to expectorate a sizeable volume of phlegm...
Miss Amanda would have discreetly expelled it into her handkerchief.
A woman sat in the seat behind me on my commuter train opened window. What about others in the carriage? What if we don’t want the window open? In other circumstances doing something similar would count as being rude. I am now colder than I want to be. Her choice has dictated what others feel like. There is little I can do. Shutting the window again would be as rude. So I live with it. What are other shipmates’ experiences?
Why is the women behind you opening the window any more rude than you not opening the window? Are you under the impression that windows should be default-closed unless everyone agrees?
As a matter of practicality, it is much easier for cold people to warm up (put on a jacket, move out of the draught) than it is for hot people to cool down (it is not acceptable in common society to remove all your clothing, for example). At any time in the summer in the UK, you are far more likely to encounter dangerously hot conditions than you are to encounter dangerously cold conditions.
On the gearbox incident I should have made it clear that not all US visitors who hire cars here drive around without changing gear and yes, the car hire company should make provision for hirers' possible unfamiliarity with manual gear change or make vehicles with automatic gears available to them where possible.
On my recent trip back to the UK, I hired a car at the airport. My natural frugality meant that the thing I hired was the cheapest available car that would meet my needs, which of course was a manual. The agent at the airport, on seeing my US drivers license, was very keen to encourage me to rent an automatic instead (at about three times the price).
The older double deckers used to have windows you could push open and even in a hot summer could cause one hell of an unwanted draught, particularly in the back of the bus. You didn't notice so much in the front
Sure, but can you remember when smoking was allowed on the top deck?
Heavy smog.
Yes, and the resulting yellow/brown ceilings.
They were painted that colour deliberately so the tobacco stains wouldn’t be so obvious
The older double deckers used to have windows you could push open and even in a hot summer could cause one hell of an unwanted draught, particularly in the back of the bus. You didn't notice so much in the front
Sure, but can you remember when smoking was allowed on the top deck?
Heavy smog.
Yes, and the resulting yellow/brown ceilings.
They were painted that colour deliberately so the tobacco stains wouldn’t be so obvious
OK. Today is a case in point. I was sitting down on the train and the woman sitting down behind me, who has no window next to her just open the one next to me. She didn’t ask if I minded. She just opened it. There were other seats available with no open windows so I took one of those. I didn’t make a fus. She saw I was sitting down and knew I would be in that seat, yet she didn’t ask.
Did you ask her about your decision to have it closed earlier ?
By sitting I mean we’re in the action of sitting down at the same time.
I’m glad you pointed that out. I had a vision of the two of you doing some sort of synchronised sitting down, what with you being a dancer and all that 😜
OK. Today is a case in point. I was sitting down on the train and the woman sitting down behind me, who has no window next to her just open the one next to me. She didn’t ask if I minded. She just opened it. There were other seats available with no open windows so I took one of those. I didn’t make a fus. She saw I was sitting down and knew I would be in that seat, yet she didn’t ask.
OK but how is this rude behaviour in high summer? When I get the bus all the windows are open, because it's hot. It's not rude to open a window in hot weather.
It was more a hypothetical question than anything else. I am British asking to change it is not really done. It was chilly that morning. I moved and said nothing .
It was more a hypothetical question than anything else. I am British asking to change it is not really done. It was chilly that morning. I moved and said nothing .
Asking to change what? I am also British, as are many people in this thread.
I don't see what the point is for this to be a hypothetical question, when surely it depends wholly on the circumstances? In the middle of a record-breaking hot summer it's not rude to open a window, because that's a normal response to hot weather. It doesn't make sense to use other times of year as an example, because those circumstances don't apply here. If there are openable windows, be prepared for them to be opened.
Also, even if it was cooler that morning it's still summer and some people are more sensitive to heat. Menopause, pregnancy, various common medications etc can all cause heat sensitivity.
@Hugal this is the second time this has happened and both times you have said nothing. If you object, why don't you say so? Why do you think it strange that the window openers aren't communicating with their fellow passengers when you are not doing so either? They are probably embarrassed to ask just as you are!
You don't have to say "how dare you open the window without asking". You could say: "Excuse me, would you mind if I closed the window again as I actually feel rather chilly?"
I'm now curious. If the window were open on a winter's day when you got in, would you close it? Would you ask before you closed it, in case anyone else wanted it to stay open? Or would you leave it open because you were too embarrassed either to close it or to ask for it to be closed?
For what it's worth, this article in the Guardian suggests that you should ask before adjusting the window. (Of course, if they ask you that puts the onus on you to be polite if you don't want it changed.)
@Hugal this is the second time this has happened and both times you have said nothing. If you object, why don't you say so? Why do you think it strange that the window openers aren't communicating with their fellow passengers when you are not doing so either? They are probably embarrassed to ask just as you are!
You don't have to say "how dare you open the window without asking". You could say: "Excuse me, would you mind if I closed the window again as I actually feel rather chilly?"
I'm now curious. If the window were open on a winter's day when you got in, would you close it? Would you ask before you closed it, in case anyone else wanted it to stay open? Or would you leave it open because you were too embarrassed either to close it or to ask for it to be closed?
I would argue that if you (general you but also directed at @Hugal feel chilly in the middle of summer (including during a record-breaking heatwave as the first incident was!) you should wear more layers rather than expect others to not open a window. Just because you feel cold doesn't mean it WAS cold.
@Hugal this is the second time this has happened and both times you have said nothing. If you object, why don't you say so? Why do you think it strange that the window openers aren't communicating with their fellow passengers when you are not doing so either? They are probably embarrassed to ask just as you are!
Yeah, this is what I don't get. Maybe @Hugal would rather have something to moan about than speak to a stranger on the bus?
Work up the nerve, buddy! You've called me to Hell more than once -- you can talk to a stranger in the bus!
It was more a hypothetical question than anything else. I am British asking to change it is not really done. It was chilly that morning. I moved and said nothing .
It is not British to be reserved and not say anything when upset. It is ridiculous.
@Hugal this is the second time this has happened and both times you have said nothing. If you object, why don't you say so? Why do you think it strange that the window openers aren't communicating with their fellow passengers when you are not doing so either? They are probably embarrassed to ask just as you are!
Yeah, this is what I don't get. Maybe @Hugal would rather have something to moan about than speak to a stranger on the bus?
Work up the nerve, buddy! You've called me to Hell more than once -- you can talk to a stranger in the bus!
Despite what some people are saying here it is done where I am. That the is just how it is.
As I said people open windows in the depth of winter and other people are visibly feeling the chill.
Missed the edit window due to patchy mobile service on the train.
Right my idea for thread was to ask about the principle not me personally. Is it ok for someone to decide for the people around them without asking, how hot the carriage should be? Is it rude to do that?
Missed the edit window due to patchy mobile service on the train.
Right my idea for thread was to ask about the principle not me personally. Is it ok for someone to decide for the people around them without asking, how hot the carriage should be? Is it rude to do that?
The public transport etiquette article that I linked to says that you should ask before changing the windows around other people. Although I would suppose that normally it's making assumptions about what other people like rather than not caring.
As for how to respond, if you're bothered by people not asking then politely tell them that you prefer the window closed and ask if you can shut it again. Obviously don't sit by the only window if you want it closed.
@Hugal this is the second time this has happened and both times you have said nothing. If you object, why don't you say so? Why do you think it strange that the window openers aren't communicating with their fellow passengers when you are not doing so either? They are probably embarrassed to ask just as you are!
Yeah, this is what I don't get. Maybe @Hugal would rather have something to moan about than speak to a stranger on the bus?
Work up the nerve, buddy! You've called me to Hell more than once -- you can talk to a stranger in the bus!
Despite what some people are saying here it is done where I am. That the is just how it is.
As I said people open windows in the depth of winter and other people are visibly feeling the chill.
Are you saying that it would be considered rude for you to object? If that is the case, then it wouldn't help if they asked beforehand - you would feel obliged to say "yes, go ahead" even though inwardly seething. But I don't think it would be rude for you to object. I mean, I live in the supposedly "reserved" south of England and I think even here it would be perfectly fine to politely say "would you mind if I closed the window again, I am feeling the cold rather?"
Or are you saying that the etiquette is that one never ever talks to others on public transport in anything less than a dire emergency? In which case surely it is unreasonable to expect them to ask to open the window - that is "not allowed". But that seems even more unconnected to reality.
Ultimately I think that yes, it would be slightly politer for them to ask before opening the window. But it is not very rude, especially if this mysterious "taboo" against talking to fellow-passengers truly exists. They are shy of asking, just as you are shy of objecting. Honestly it sounds like everything would work itself out much better if everyone opened up just a little bit. You don't have to trust each other with your deepest darkest secrets! You just have to mention the weather conditions briefly! That is fully in line with British customs, surely?
I have tried to take this from personal which I did not intend to theoretical which I did intend. People on the train tolerate all kinds of behaviour, someone vaping when they shouldn’t be, loud people who have had too much to drink. I think it falls into that kind of category.
Oh OK! Well I think it is actually a bit different. In those other cases you mention the behaviour is clearly antisocial and maybe even explicitly prohibited. Therefore the dynamic is different because someone has blatantly violated the explicit or implicit rules. Now maybe people are a bit wary of speaking up because the perpetrator has shown they are prepared to go against the rules. Maybe they are a bit dangerous. In the original case there is no such implied threat to the rules - opening the window is fine in itself, it's just that the preferences of other passengers may be different. So I think it is a difference of kind, not just of degree.
I think it's hard for some of us to make this theoretical because we can't imagine anyone being particularly worked up about it. I've been nearby when people asked and didn't ask when opening windows on busses. (Can't open our train windows.) I have preferred the window closed and open at different times. I have never cared enough to object and would have so objected if I did.
Yeah, for me it's not the kind of issue I would be bothered by - you can move away from the window. It's different to eg someone playing music out loud or vaping, which you can't escape.
Despite what some people are saying here it is done where I am. That the is just how it is.
As I said people open windows in the depth of winter and other people are visibly feeling the chill.
I do sympathise with winter window openers - if the bus is hot and steamy (which it probably is if the heating is on and the passengers have wet coats), then opening the window can often be desirable. As a rule, people who are bus passengers in winter all have (and are probably wearing) coats and other winter clothing, because they have recently been standing outside at a bus stop.
(For those in a similar boat, if you're on a hot stuffy train in winter and the windows don't open, you can often go and stand in whatever the bit between carriages is called and get some relief there.)
Reminds me of a poem in a children's story book I used to have:
Did you know that some trains have a little back porch
Where the passenger-people may ride
When the red leather seats are wet with heat
And the coaches are stuffy inside?
(I don't remember the rest, nor the title of the book. The poem was called "The Vestibule".)
Comments
Just as I had made similar assumptions in reverse, that there might be windows that open on US buses and trains.
That wasn't cross-Pond point scoring, but an observation to reinforce one that @Lamb Chopped made.
On the gearbox incident I should have made it clear that not all US visitors who hire cars here drive around without changing gear and yes, the car hire company should make provision for hirers' possible unfamiliarity with manual gear change or make vehicles with automatic gears available to them where possible.
I simply used it as an example of assumptions and should have made it clearer that it wasn't an attack on US visitors per se.
Equally, the fact that I've seen visitors from other countries not knowing how to order drinks or food in British pubs doesn't imply any value judgement on them. 'Tut! Tut! Tsk! Tsk! Why didn't they read a guidebook?'
No, it's not their 'fault' and where possible I help people out in such circumstances - as should other customers, the bar staff or the pub landlord.
Likewise British people shouldn't leave it to the oddballs to speak to strangers and visitors on trains. I've seen plenty of instances where they do, and plenty where they don't.
You are well travelled. Not everyone is. I often think that the UK must be a very confusing destination outside of the main cities and major tourist destinations. I've had a lot more help and assistance off the beaten track in Ireland, Spain, France and elsewhere than what I might reasonably expect in some parts of the UK.
It does vary though.
I've met travellers and tourists whose experiences here make me feel proud to be British. Others whose experiences make me feel the opposite.
Anyhow... on the teasing and leg-pulling thing. Yes, I over do it. No, text based media doesn't lend itself to it. I will try to amend my ways.
I know Shipmates will hold my feet to the fire if I don't but I ought to get into the habit of not doing it anyway, for all the reasons posters have cited.
Peace be to all.
My hosts were quite willing to take me to whatever tourist spots I wanted to visit. One day we visited Stratford-on-Avon to do the Shakespeare thing. On the way home, it was tea time and we were looking for a place to stop for tea. We spotted what appeared to be a restaurant -- we weren't actually sure -- and went in. We made ourselves comfortable at a table in what appeared to be a parlor. No one else was there.
After several minutes a woman came in looking rather surprised to see us. "We'd like tea, please" we told her. "Oh, yes, tea," she replied, and disappeared into the kitchen. After what seemed like an eternity she came back in with a pot of tea and a plate of sandwiches.
We do not know to this day if we were in a restaurant or in a private home.
I've heard people say that the French can be cold and inhospitable but that's never been my experience travelling in France.
I do think our opening and licensing hours can be confusing.
I've seen tourists frustrated when they turn up at a castle or other historic building and find it closed.
It also infuriates me when I've seen National Trust guides pushing the benefits of membership to visitors who aren't going to be here long enough to visit more than one or two properties.
Many tearooms and cafes close around 4pm which puzzles and frustrates visitors.
There's also an assumption that pubs will always serve food. An American clergy friend stayed above a pub in North Wales and was appalled to find they didn't do evening meals and only had 'chicken-feet' and pork-scratchings available behind the bar. There was nowhere else to get anything to eat for miles.
Things vary. I once helped a German woman get the bus to Harrogate from Leeds. She had wandered round the city centre for an hour meeting only shrugs and 'Sorry love, I don't understand you ...'
It was difficult to work out what she was asking I must admit but by slowing down and listening I was eventually able to understand her request for help.
I'm no great shakes and am not blowing my own trumpet but as someone who has got into scrapes travelling, I like to help or at least welcome visitors when I can.
She managed to find a bus eventually.
It meant a lot to me. In spite of not being a part of her group, in spite of the language barrier, she extended a kindness to someone she did not know.
I think my friend was being sarcastic. All they had were pork scratchings and the like so he used the term 'chicken feet' as a catch-all for unappetising snacky things which probably consisted of discarded body parts.
I managed to turn my snort of laughter into a reasonable approximation of a cough.
That's assuming the seats faced forwards - which isn't always the case!
NB London buses (RTs and Routemasters) had windows which one wound down with a little handle.
Of course she was referring to me, but I refrained from pointing out that she was actually referring to herself. The pity of it was that the child had to endure such stupidity.
Sure, but can you remember when smoking was allowed on the top deck?
Heavy smog.
I remember flying to Baltimore, Maryland several times as a child to visit my family. There were adults all around me smoking on what was in those days quite a long flight.
It was vile.
Yes I remember that. My dad smoked so I often ended up on the top deck. I also remember the cinema when (facing the screen) the left half was none smoking and the right half was smoking. Made very little difference when watching a popular film.
Yes, and the resulting yellow/brown ceilings.
Was she American? I wonder if she was from a cultural background such as German or Swiss, where there is a real mania around lüften aka opening windows, even if there's a blizzard outside. Some cultures have a real obsession with opening windows and think that AC or fans with the windows closed is somehow unhygienic or even dangerous. Not justifying her reaction at all though.
...and someone two open windows behind me getting it right in the face!
I wasn't popular.
Why is the women behind you opening the window any more rude than you not opening the window? Are you under the impression that windows should be default-closed unless everyone agrees?
As a matter of practicality, it is much easier for cold people to warm up (put on a jacket, move out of the draught) than it is for hot people to cool down (it is not acceptable in common society to remove all your clothing, for example). At any time in the summer in the UK, you are far more likely to encounter dangerously hot conditions than you are to encounter dangerously cold conditions.
On my recent trip back to the UK, I hired a car at the airport. My natural frugality meant that the thing I hired was the cheapest available car that would meet my needs, which of course was a manual. The agent at the airport, on seeing my US drivers license, was very keen to encourage me to rent an automatic instead (at about three times the price).
They were painted that colour deliberately so the tobacco stains wouldn’t be so obvious
Fagnolia.
We both got on and sat down at the same time. By sitting I mean we’re in the action of sitting down at the same time.
I’m glad you pointed that out. I had a vision of the two of you doing some sort of synchronised sitting down, what with you being a dancer and all that 😜
OK but how is this rude behaviour in high summer? When I get the bus all the windows are open, because it's hot. It's not rude to open a window in hot weather.
Asking to change what? I am also British, as are many people in this thread.
I don't see what the point is for this to be a hypothetical question, when surely it depends wholly on the circumstances? In the middle of a record-breaking hot summer it's not rude to open a window, because that's a normal response to hot weather. It doesn't make sense to use other times of year as an example, because those circumstances don't apply here. If there are openable windows, be prepared for them to be opened.
Also, even if it was cooler that morning it's still summer and some people are more sensitive to heat. Menopause, pregnancy, various common medications etc can all cause heat sensitivity.
You don't have to say "how dare you open the window without asking". You could say: "Excuse me, would you mind if I closed the window again as I actually feel rather chilly?"
I'm now curious. If the window were open on a winter's day when you got in, would you close it? Would you ask before you closed it, in case anyone else wanted it to stay open? Or would you leave it open because you were too embarrassed either to close it or to ask for it to be closed?
I would argue that if you (general you but also directed at @Hugal feel chilly in the middle of summer (including during a record-breaking heatwave as the first incident was!) you should wear more layers rather than expect others to not open a window. Just because you feel cold doesn't mean it WAS cold.
Yeah, this is what I don't get. Maybe @Hugal would rather have something to moan about than speak to a stranger on the bus?
Work up the nerve, buddy! You've called me to Hell more than once -- you can talk to a stranger in the bus!
It is not British to be reserved and not say anything when upset. It is ridiculous.
Despite what some people are saying here it is done where I am. That the is just how it is.
As I said people open windows in the depth of winter and other people are visibly feeling the chill.
Right my idea for thread was to ask about the principle not me personally. Is it ok for someone to decide for the people around them without asking, how hot the carriage should be? Is it rude to do that?
...the edit window was clo-
Ah, my coat. Thank you.
First: no
Second: 2 options for you:
Move
Put up & shut up
Been there, done that but don’t have the T shirt
As for how to respond, if you're bothered by people not asking then politely tell them that you prefer the window closed and ask if you can shut it again. Obviously don't sit by the only window if you want it closed.
Are you saying that it would be considered rude for you to object? If that is the case, then it wouldn't help if they asked beforehand - you would feel obliged to say "yes, go ahead" even though inwardly seething. But I don't think it would be rude for you to object. I mean, I live in the supposedly "reserved" south of England and I think even here it would be perfectly fine to politely say "would you mind if I closed the window again, I am feeling the cold rather?"
Or are you saying that the etiquette is that one never ever talks to others on public transport in anything less than a dire emergency? In which case surely it is unreasonable to expect them to ask to open the window - that is "not allowed". But that seems even more unconnected to reality.
Ultimately I think that yes, it would be slightly politer for them to ask before opening the window. But it is not very rude, especially if this mysterious "taboo" against talking to fellow-passengers truly exists. They are shy of asking, just as you are shy of objecting. Honestly it sounds like everything would work itself out much better if everyone opened up just a little bit. You don't have to trust each other with your deepest darkest secrets! You just have to mention the weather conditions briefly! That is fully in line with British customs, surely?
I do sympathise with winter window openers - if the bus is hot and steamy (which it probably is if the heating is on and the passengers have wet coats), then opening the window can often be desirable. As a rule, people who are bus passengers in winter all have (and are probably wearing) coats and other winter clothing, because they have recently been standing outside at a bus stop.
(For those in a similar boat, if you're on a hot stuffy train in winter and the windows don't open, you can often go and stand in whatever the bit between carriages is called and get some relief there.)
Did you know that some trains have a little back porch
Where the passenger-people may ride
When the red leather seats are wet with heat
And the coaches are stuffy inside?
(I don't remember the rest, nor the title of the book. The poem was called "The Vestibule".)