But - and it's not a cheap jibe, whatever some may think - the whole nation was founded on a blatant hypocrisy; and if you think that doesn't matter, consider the vile racial problems that the country still has, and which are directly derived from that fatal Original Sin.
The remit of this thread is not actually that difficult. Say things you like about the US. Discuss those things. Period. We could start a similar thread for any country on earth, if we cared to do so, and discuss its magnificent scenery, its music, art and literature, its unique cuisine. This is the sort of thing we do here in Heaven.
As soon as you want to discuss whether the US was "founded on a blatant hypocrisy," or how Britain colonized half the planet, or how horrifically Canada has mistreated its native people, or [insert country] committed [insert historical misdeed] ... that's the sort of thing we discuss in Purgatory.
It's not a matter of "cheap jibes" but of the type of conversation that's appropriate on one board and not on another.
Serious debate belongs in Purgatory. Personal attacks belong in Hell. Rhapsodies about the joys of Broadway musicals or Five Guys Burgers & Fries (to pick two of my favourite things about the US off the top of my head) belong here in Heaven.
Being able to study at university vastly different subjects at undergraduate level, majoring in one thing and minoring in something else. Probably you need substantially larger establishments than is usual in the UK and only the Open University do it as far as I know, apart from languages and business or similar.
Some of my all-time favourite TV: Buffy, Oz, ER, Babylon 5, Deadwood.
I left school never having been deliberately taught anything about how the UK political, legislative or judicial systems work currently and only sparingly in the past, and don't feel like this is an unusual state of affairs. I don't feel like this would be possible in the US school system.
If we're doing TV shows, WKRP. "I swear I thought turkeys could fly!"
And StarTrek, all versions.
//To a degree my religion is a synchresis of StarTrek into mildly unplanful heretical Anglicanism (probably about the way some Dr Who people seem to do). I expect to hear in a post-life interview (or how ever it works) what Jesus, God, various saints, sinners and martyrs etc think of Q, and why space was designed to be travelled like they do it in ST. Given eternity there should be time for questions. //
Is Five Guys prohibitively expensive in the US as it sure as hell is here?
I don't know ... whether in the US or the UK (the two places I've had it) I'm spending money that feels like play money to me, so it's hard for me to evaluate unless I've bought something in Canadian dollars.
Ben & Jerry's
Key lime pie
Starsky and Hutch (the series not the film)
Linkin Park
Greenday
Films from the Marvel and DC franchises (I don't care for the commic books but I do like the films)
The Kill Bill films
Black and white horror films from the 1930s
Kevin Smith
The great north woods (somewhere I would love to visit)
John Irving
Pixar
Diet coke
The urban fantasy genre of literature
Native American folklore
American patchwork designs
Huckleberry Finn. It was assigned reading when I was in Grade 11, and it remains one of my favourite novels, decades thence. For all the failures of American public life, Huck Finn puts on bright display the better angels of the American nature. Stylistically, its use of vernacular and template of the journey have had a profound influence on American literature, almost creating it as we know it. Holden Caulfield would have been impossible had not Huck Finn come along.
Much as I enjoy the cinemas of Germany, Italy, France, Russia, etc., world cinema, for all its stylistic and thematic differences, would be impossible to ponder without considering American cinema. Mikhail Baryshnikov has said that much of his inspiration to become a dancer was watching Fred Astaire films in Leningrad.
The space programme. Sadly neglected of late (notwithstanding the recent launch of the Parker Solar Probe, which excites the fuck out of me), the space programme is the embodiment of what makes humanity so interesting: active curiosity. Married to "Let's do this." I just wish that that extended to curiosity about humanity beyond their borders.
I might take some stick for this, but the very best (not all, but the very best) of Stephen Foster is, IMNSHO, the equal to the European art song. Songs like Hard Times and Ah! May The Red Rose Live Alway have a heartbreaking, genuine beauty. He was, fittingly, born on 4 July.
Abraham Lincoln. Those who have followed my posts know that I'm not pro- or anti-
American, as such, or given to idolatry of individuals, but for all his failings, Lincoln remains a man I revere; in part, because of his failings. So flawed a human who did so much good in such difficult circumstances is deserving of my deepest admiration.
Despite the current moral bankruptcy of American public life, there are still citizens who say, "We can be better than this." That gives me hope.
Ice cream. Key lime pie. Good pinot noir. Real barbecue. Jambalaya. The Louisiana accent. Chicago. The Outer Banks of North Carolina (and their wonderful people). I could go on....
I should have said "Louisiana accents". There are more than one. I especially like the French inflected Cajun one. I once had a delightful conversation with someone who had learned French from his grandparents, in a remotish parish.
Americans being delighted to hear cute British accents is naturally, to a True Brit, comforting evidence that, at heart, all our ex-colonies would really prefer to have us back . . . no, I'm only joking, folks.
We'd love to have you back. As the 51st state, perhaps?
Americans being delighted to hear cute British accents is naturally, to a True Brit, comforting evidence that, at heart, all our ex-colonies would really prefer to have us back . . . no, I'm only joking, folks.
{Cue King George III, singing "You'll Be Back" in the musical "Hamilton".}
But - and it's not a cheap jibe, whatever some may think - the whole nation was founded on a blatant hypocrisy; and if you think that doesn't matter, consider the vile racial problems that the country still has, and which are directly derived from that fatal Original Sin.
The remit of this thread is not actually that difficult. Say things you like about the US. Discuss those things. Period. We could start a similar thread for any country on earth, if we cared to do so, and discuss its magnificent scenery, its music, art and literature, its unique cuisine. This is the sort of thing we do here in Heaven.
As soon as you want to discuss whether the US was "founded on a blatant hypocrisy," or how Britain colonized half the planet, or how horrifically Canada has mistreated its native people, or [insert country] committed [insert historical misdeed] ... that's the sort of thing we discuss in Purgatory.
It's not a matter of "cheap jibes" but of the type of conversation that's appropriate on one board and not on another.
Serious debate belongs in Purgatory. Personal attacks belong in Hell. Rhapsodies about the joys of Broadway musicals or Five Guys Burgers & Fries (to pick two of my favourite things about the US off the top of my head) belong here in Heaven.
Madly eclectic and somewhat random light-bulb moments that remind me how much I owe to American writers, artists and thinkers.
Howard Zinn on the Wobblies
Tillie Olsen’s Silences, on why so many women writers fall silent
Emily Dickinson’s poetry
James Baldwin’s 1955 Notes of a Native Son
The first time I heard Buffy Sainte-Marie singing Soldier Blue, that eerie lilting magic
Flannery O’Connor’s collected letters, The Habit of Being – by turns feisty, sardonic and mystic, these opened up her tremendous but difficult short stories for me
Teju Cole's Blind Spot, enigmatic images and text side by side, that diaspora where Lagos meets New York
My father’s passion for the jazz improvisations of Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald
That dazzling vertiginous architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright at Fallingwater
Luminous passages in the journals of Thomas Merton
There’s no cut-off point really: Henry James’ Isabel Archer in Portrait of a Lady, the New York School, Billie Holiday, Lydia Davis. The poems of Elizabeth Bishop, the style of Joan Didion, the music of Philip Glass, things I learned from John Howard Yoder and Richard Niebuhr. Claudia Rankine on examining white privilege in her bleak and prophetic poetry.
I'm glad we have a holiday (shared with Canada) called Thanksgiving.
...
Um, ours (Canada's) is in October, and represents the harvest, not the Mayflower. I'm ok with that, because I get to celebrate both in their respective countries!
I'm glad we have a holiday (shared with Canada) called Thanksgiving.
...
Um, ours (Canada's) is in October, and represents the harvest, not the Mayflower. I'm ok with that, because I get to celebrate both in their respective countries!
Since you're not the first to correct my post, I guess I should have made the difference in dates clear.
The story about the so-called "First Thanksgiving" is pretty much known to be a fiction. There might be some discussion about how that story came about and what purpose it serves, but I think that discussion would be better served in another thread.
I know we gave rock and roll to the world, but many of my favoritest rock acts are British. Beatles. Supertramp. Parsons. Al Stewart. To name four at the apex of my fangirldom.
Samuel Langhorne Clemens
Harlan Ellison
Isaac Asimov
Nikola Tesla
Dale Earnhardt
Fish Camp
Lynrd Skynrd
The Allman Brothers
Lobster Roll
Crawfish Etouffee
Motown Records
The 69 Oldsmobile Cutlass with rocket 350 engine
Is Five Guys prohibitively expensive in the US as it sure as hell is here?
In-N-Out burgers and (especially) fries are infinitely better than Five Guys and much more reasonably priced. As are their shakes. The ambience is better too. I do like the endless free peanuts at Five Guys, though.
On the Five Guys thing. I know the Louis Jordan song, Five Guys Named Moe but haven't the foggiest what the Five Guys is that you're all talking about here.
There is a musical called Five Guys Named Moe - which was on over the winter at a pop up theatre at Marble Arch. There's also a burger/restaurant chain called Five Guys, and there are some London and other UK branches, one very busy one in Covent Garden.
Could someone start an All Good Things about Canada thread?
Unless we've got family connections or have been to The Rockies, I'd hazard a guess that Canada has to be among the least well known, in relation to its size, to The Man (or woman) on the Clapham Omnibus, than any of Her Britannic Majesty's dominions.
Americans being delighted to hear cute British accents is naturally, to a True Brit, comforting evidence that, at heart, all our ex-colonies would really prefer to have us back . . . no, I'm only joking, folks.
I'd certainly take Her Majesty as head of state over the current occupant of the Oval Office.
I'm glad we have a holiday (shared with Canada) called Thanksgiving.
...
Um, ours (Canada's) is in October, and represents the harvest, not the Mayflower. I'm ok with that, because I get to celebrate both in their respective countries!
Ours started life (with different dates in different locations) as a harvest festival, too. When Franklin Delano Roosevelt fixed the date in late November, it was intended to be the kickoff for the Christmas shopping season. I'd go with Canada's date if it were up to me.
Incidentally, there were services of Thanksgiving in North America well before the Puritans in New England. Sir Francis Drake held one in San Francisco Bay in 1579, and the colonists in Jamestown held them, too.
My paternal grandfather, an M.D., was once called upon to treat Mr. Hemingway, and said afterward that he was the filthiest man he had ever encountered, in body, mind, or spirit. And as said grandfather used to treat mafiosi for venereal disease during the Depression (they had money, while his regular patients did not), he had some basis for comparison.
Could someone start an All Good Things about Canada thread?
Unless we've got family connections or have been to The Rockies, I'd hazard a guess that Canada has to be among the least well known, in relation to its size, to The Man (or woman) on the Clapham Omnibus, than any of Her Britannic Majesty's dominions.
Oh dear. It's such a good idea but I'm afraid of the avalanche of beaver jokes.
And the cliches about Mounties, moose, lumberjacks and Tim Horton's.
And thanks but no thanks with the colonialisms. Not everybody thinks the monarchy is all that. In fact most of us here don't think of the monarchy at all unless we are opening parliament, and even then it's like, oh yeah, we still think we need a speech from the throne.
Could someone start an All Good Things about Canada thread?
Unless we've got family connections or have been to The Rockies, I'd hazard a guess that Canada has to be among the least well known, in relation to its size, to The Man (or woman) on the Clapham Omnibus, than any of Her Britannic Majesty's dominions.
As a Canadian myself I'm not opposed to the idea, but is there enough room here on the net to even mention all the good things just once?
Well, seeing as I know diddly squat about Canada other than it's got some cities and French-speaking parts in the east then a whopping big prairie where nobody lives until you reach some unfeasibly high snowy mountains and then dip down to Vancouver and the sea, then there's plenty of scope.
But I suspect most British people know a lot more about Australia and former colonies such as India than they do about Canada. It's time that was rectified.
Canada is great. I lived there for a few years and loved it, and still keep in touch with friends I made there. So I guess I’m a Brit who knows more about Canada than about Australia. I don’t really know much about Australia, other than having watched Neighbours and Home and Away in my younger days!
Having lived the first half of my life in the northeastern U.S., Canada was practically in my backyard. It was a favorite vacation spot. In recent years I have visited the Stratford Festival west of Toronto annually. (Look out, Canadians, I arrive this Monday!) I've seen Shakespeare plays in a lot of places around the U.S. and England, but the Stratford, Ontario ones are my favorites. They also perform other classic plays, new plays (often concerning Canadian history or issues), and the most amazing musicals. And it's an absolutely beautiful town (I've even found a lovely church there). If it weren't for that thing they call "winter" I would have packed my bags and moved there two years ago.
Comments
The remit of this thread is not actually that difficult. Say things you like about the US. Discuss those things. Period. We could start a similar thread for any country on earth, if we cared to do so, and discuss its magnificent scenery, its music, art and literature, its unique cuisine. This is the sort of thing we do here in Heaven.
As soon as you want to discuss whether the US was "founded on a blatant hypocrisy," or how Britain colonized half the planet, or how horrifically Canada has mistreated its native people, or [insert country] committed [insert historical misdeed] ... that's the sort of thing we discuss in Purgatory.
It's not a matter of "cheap jibes" but of the type of conversation that's appropriate on one board and not on another.
Serious debate belongs in Purgatory. Personal attacks belong in Hell. Rhapsodies about the joys of Broadway musicals or Five Guys Burgers & Fries (to pick two of my favourite things about the US off the top of my head) belong here in Heaven.
Trudy, Heavenly Host
Being able to study at university vastly different subjects at undergraduate level, majoring in one thing and minoring in something else. Probably you need substantially larger establishments than is usual in the UK and only the Open University do it as far as I know, apart from languages and business or similar.
Some of my all-time favourite TV: Buffy, Oz, ER, Babylon 5, Deadwood.
I left school never having been deliberately taught anything about how the UK political, legislative or judicial systems work currently and only sparingly in the past, and don't feel like this is an unusual state of affairs. I don't feel like this would be possible in the US school system.
And StarTrek, all versions.
//To a degree my religion is a synchresis of StarTrek into mildly unplanful heretical Anglicanism (probably about the way some Dr Who people seem to do). I expect to hear in a post-life interview (or how ever it works) what Jesus, God, various saints, sinners and martyrs etc think of Q, and why space was designed to be travelled like they do it in ST. Given eternity there should be time for questions. //
I don't know ... whether in the US or the UK (the two places I've had it) I'm spending money that feels like play money to me, so it's hard for me to evaluate unless I've bought something in Canadian dollars.
Five Guys prices in the US are typical for a fast-casual place - more than McDonald's, less than a restaurant with table service.
Key lime pie
Starsky and Hutch (the series not the film)
Linkin Park
Greenday
Films from the Marvel and DC franchises (I don't care for the commic books but I do like the films)
The Kill Bill films
Black and white horror films from the 1930s
Kevin Smith
The great north woods (somewhere I would love to visit)
John Irving
Pixar
Diet coke
The urban fantasy genre of literature
Native American folklore
American patchwork designs
I could go on,
Much as I enjoy the cinemas of Germany, Italy, France, Russia, etc., world cinema, for all its stylistic and thematic differences, would be impossible to ponder without considering American cinema. Mikhail Baryshnikov has said that much of his inspiration to become a dancer was watching Fred Astaire films in Leningrad.
The space programme. Sadly neglected of late (notwithstanding the recent launch of the Parker Solar Probe, which excites the fuck out of me), the space programme is the embodiment of what makes humanity so interesting: active curiosity. Married to "Let's do this." I just wish that that extended to curiosity about humanity beyond their borders.
I might take some stick for this, but the very best (not all, but the very best) of Stephen Foster is, IMNSHO, the equal to the European art song. Songs like Hard Times and Ah! May The Red Rose Live Alway have a heartbreaking, genuine beauty. He was, fittingly, born on 4 July.
Abraham Lincoln. Those who have followed my posts know that I'm not pro- or anti-
American, as such, or given to idolatry of individuals, but for all his failings, Lincoln remains a man I revere; in part, because of his failings. So flawed a human who did so much good in such difficult circumstances is deserving of my deepest admiration.
Despite the current moral bankruptcy of American public life, there are still citizens who say, "We can be better than this." That gives me hope.
Ice cream. Key lime pie. Good pinot noir. Real barbecue. Jambalaya. The Louisiana accent. Chicago. The Outer Banks of North Carolina (and their wonderful people). I could go on....
We'd love to have you back. As the 51st state, perhaps?
Some really brilliant shipmates.
The phrase YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary), which I keep wanting to use in other contexts besides the Ship because it is so useful.
Golden Eagles because they are so majestic in flight.
The biggest one for me personally is that the brother closest to me growing up lives there and I miss him
Off the top of my head, and because I type really slowly - If I had a few hours the list would be much longer.
{Cue King George III, singing "You'll Be Back" in the musical "Hamilton".}
MMM
Sorry - hairshirt duly donned.
Howard Zinn on the Wobblies
Tillie Olsen’s Silences, on why so many women writers fall silent
Emily Dickinson’s poetry
James Baldwin’s 1955 Notes of a Native Son
The first time I heard Buffy Sainte-Marie singing Soldier Blue, that eerie lilting magic
Flannery O’Connor’s collected letters, The Habit of Being – by turns feisty, sardonic and mystic, these opened up her tremendous but difficult short stories for me
Teju Cole's Blind Spot, enigmatic images and text side by side, that diaspora where Lagos meets New York
My father’s passion for the jazz improvisations of Louis Armstrong and Ella Fitzgerald
That dazzling vertiginous architecture of Frank Lloyd Wright at Fallingwater
Luminous passages in the journals of Thomas Merton
There’s no cut-off point really: Henry James’ Isabel Archer in Portrait of a Lady, the New York School, Billie Holiday, Lydia Davis. The poems of Elizabeth Bishop, the style of Joan Didion, the music of Philip Glass, things I learned from John Howard Yoder and Richard Niebuhr. Claudia Rankine on examining white privilege in her bleak and prophetic poetry.
Aretha Franklin, always: Say a Little Prayer
You do indeed, specifically Starsky, I fancied him like mad for a while as a young teenager
The music in heaven is even better today.
Um, ours (Canada's) is in October, and represents the harvest, not the Mayflower. I'm ok with that, because I get to celebrate both in their respective countries!
Since you're not the first to correct my post, I guess I should have made the difference in dates clear.
The story about the so-called "First Thanksgiving" is pretty much known to be a fiction. There might be some discussion about how that story came about and what purpose it serves, but I think that discussion would be better served in another thread.
Harlan Ellison
Isaac Asimov
Nikola Tesla
Dale Earnhardt
Fish Camp
Lynrd Skynrd
The Allman Brothers
Lobster Roll
Crawfish Etouffee
Motown Records
The 69 Oldsmobile Cutlass with rocket 350 engine
In-N-Out burgers and (especially) fries are infinitely better than Five Guys and much more reasonably priced. As are their shakes. The ambience is better too. I do like the endless free peanuts at Five Guys, though.
On the Five Guys thing. I know the Louis Jordan song, Five Guys Named Moe but haven't the foggiest what the Five Guys is that you're all talking about here.
And well I'm at it, most in my age cohort seemed to have their Zen period due to Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
Heretics the both of you.
________________________
*can't help it
A celebration of American Dance.
Even Groucho got moves.
That was Awesome!!!
Unless we've got family connections or have been to The Rockies, I'd hazard a guess that Canada has to be among the least well known, in relation to its size, to The Man (or woman) on the Clapham Omnibus, than any of Her Britannic Majesty's dominions.
I'd certainly take Her Majesty as head of state over the current occupant of the Oval Office.
Ours started life (with different dates in different locations) as a harvest festival, too. When Franklin Delano Roosevelt fixed the date in late November, it was intended to be the kickoff for the Christmas shopping season. I'd go with Canada's date if it were up to me.
Incidentally, there were services of Thanksgiving in North America well before the Puritans in New England. Sir Francis Drake held one in San Francisco Bay in 1579, and the colonists in Jamestown held them, too.
My paternal grandfather, an M.D., was once called upon to treat Mr. Hemingway, and said afterward that he was the filthiest man he had ever encountered, in body, mind, or spirit. And as said grandfather used to treat mafiosi for venereal disease during the Depression (they had money, while his regular patients did not), he had some basis for comparison.
Oh dear. It's such a good idea but I'm afraid of the avalanche of beaver jokes.
And the cliches about Mounties, moose, lumberjacks and Tim Horton's.
And thanks but no thanks with the colonialisms. Not everybody thinks the monarchy is all that. In fact most of us here don't think of the monarchy at all unless we are opening parliament, and even then it's like, oh yeah, we still think we need a speech from the throne.
AFF
I admit a great bloody soft spot for David Sedaris.
The Bold and the Beautiful got me through final year exams when I needed to chill. But probably not something to extoll.
I hope not.
Sorry.
As a Canadian myself I'm not opposed to the idea, but is there enough room here on the net to even mention all the good things just once?
@AFF I am teasing you in the colonial thing ...
But I suspect most British people know a lot more about Australia and former colonies such as India than they do about Canada. It's time that was rectified.
Apologies, Leaf. I'm mortified, should have checked.