Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    IMPEACHED
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Let's hope some courageous and public-spirited WH staffers have volunteered to stand watch over Individual 1's tendency to Twitter-rage tonight. Maybe they can set him to producing more 6-page poison-pen missives instead.
  • Praise God, from whom all blessings flow!
    (:notworthy:)

    T might well tweet all night.
  • Sadly, none of this comes as a surprise, and Trump's fanbase will ignore reality in favor of his incessant lies, but here is another example of his insufferable hypocrisy. Why wasn't "blatantly bilking the American taxpayer" added as a charge for impeachment?
  • I laughed at a story in the Guardian, basically, Trump will make China great again. MCGA, if you like. No link, but it's by Nouriel Roubini.
  • I think he (45) is enchanted with the idea of the "Great Wall of China".
  • 45 is still going on about windmills, claiming he does not know anything about wind.

    Meanwhile, he has agreed to pay $2 million to eight charities, a fine that was levied on him by New York State for using his Trump foundation for his personal use. This is the guy that is supposed to root out corruption in Washington.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    Well, as Nixon said, "If a president does something, it's not illegal". If T does something, it's not corrupt.
    ;)

  • Here is an article (NYT one free click) discussing the administration's approach to Iran and North Korea, and how badly things are going wrong for Trump. I don't necessarily think things are going badly for anybody but Trump, although NK has once again failed to be handled. I hope that the end of this Presidency will be an opportunity to reset on Iran.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    Ohher wrote: »
    I know beans about their relative politics currently, but if Mr. KGB is indeed trying to resurrect some version of the Russian Empire (1721-1917), that august entity once included the Ottoman (aka Turkish) Empire within its borders.

    Not quite.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Trump's egotistical and simplistic approach to foreign policy was bound to unravel and it takes a lot of news management to represent his miscalculations as victories.

    It's certainly been an area where his conscious aim to disrupt has been in play. The disruptions have had negative effects.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I found this article from CNN saying:
    Heading into the 2020 general election, Trump can certainly count on the strong backing of white born-again evangelicals. If he loses, however, it'll be in part because his approval rating is only in the low 40s among those who attend religious services at least once a week and are not white.

    There is also a very interesting video about his spiritual advisor embedded in the link.

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Clear direction from POTUS to continue to hold.

    That's what Office of Management and Budget associate manager Michael Duffey said via e-mail. Click through to read the whole thing, but the tl;dr version is that we now have documented evidence various Trump officials somehow got the idea that he (illegally) wanted to withhold Congressionally appropriated funds from Ukraine.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    I'd love to believe that this evidence might persuade a few more Republican senators to cut us all loose from the 45 Express before he drives us into Yet. Another. Mid-East. War. All the Repugs have left as a defense is "Yeah, he did it, and yeah, it's illegal unless it's committed by a president since no laws apply to him and anyway, even if the office didn't render the office-holder immune to all laws, this isn't an impeachable offense.

    Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a raft in mid-ocean, don't they care how fucking dangerous this lunatic is? He's leading us into apocalypse.
  • I suspect that the only apocalypse most of them are worried about is the Congressional Republicans losing power. And losing their own power, and their jobs.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    Jesus H. Fucking Christ on a raft in mid-ocean, don't they care how fucking dangerous this lunatic is? He's leading us into apocalypse.

    Expect people to argue that the impeachment cannot continue at a time of war.
  • People with loved ones in the military should consider very carefully whether or not such an erratic, dysfunctional Commander-In-Chief is really the person they want deciding to send their loved ones into war.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    Expect people to argue that the impeachment cannot continue at a time of war.
    Oh, yes. Most certainly. I am sure Mitch McConnell is preparing that speech even as we speak. Or Moscow is preparing it for him.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Hey, remember Lev Parnas? He was the Florida-residing Ukrainian/Soviet immigrant who was allegedly helping Giuliani shake down the Ukrainian government and also allegedly funneling campaign contributions from a Russian oligarch to various Republican politicians. He was arrested with his alleged confederate Igor Fruman at Dulles International Airport with a one-way ticket to Vienna.

    Anyway, Mr. Parnas has been offering to share files from his iPhone and other sources with the House Intelligence Committee. Unfortunately he had been instructed by prosecutors not to share this information anybody since they were still building a case. His plea has been moving through the courts and today he was granted approval to share the information with Adam Schiff's merry band. We'll see if any of this becomes public.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    People with loved ones in the military should consider very carefully whether or not such an erratic, dysfunctional Commander-In-Chief is really the person they want deciding to send their loved ones into war.

    Oh, they are. I do not think anyone in the special forces community is supporting 45 him getting involved in the Gallagher case. Moreover, many were upset that we left allies on the field when we pulled back from the Turkish/Syrian border. People who have been to South Korea also report our personnel is unsettled about PRNK's increasing threats and 45's minimalization of them. Half of the military is unhappy with 45 now.

  • Thanks very much for that info Croesus. I wait with hope in my heart.
  • Xax50Xax50 Shipmate Posts: 4
    Trump is the worst president the US has ever had by far, even Richard Nixon was a saint in comparison with him. He is making his country look stupid. I hope he is got rid of sooner rather than later, as he is a danger not only to the US but the rest of the planet.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    And there is always this possibility.

    At any rate, he's certainly moved the news cycle away from impeachment.
  • yeah... on the possibility. On impeachment, it's a game of chicken in slow motion now.
  • Recently I saw something on Facebook (so it must be true) that stated no member of the Trump family had served in the military for the last 150 years. Can this be right? And how big a deal would it be if it were?
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    I dunno if the claim is true (wouldn't surprise me a bit to see it confirmed). But the predictable response will be that Obama didn't serve in the military either.
  • Is Obama up for reelection?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Recently I saw something on Facebook (so it must be true) that stated no member of the Trump family had served in the military for the last 150 years. Can this be right? And how big a deal would it be if it were?

    I do know Fredrick Trump immigrated from Bavaria to the US to avoid military service. That would have been Trump's grandfather. Trump's father avoided service because he built military housing on bases during WWII

    But, during the late 1800s and early 1900s, many German immigrants were in effect draft dodgers, so I would not hold that against him.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited January 8
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Recently I saw something on Facebook (so it must be true) that stated no member of the Trump family had served in the military for the last 150 years. Can this be right? And how big a deal would it be if it were?

    I do know Fredrick Trump immigrated from Bavaria to the US to avoid military service. That would have been Trump's grandfather. Trump's father avoided service because he built military housing on bases during WWII

    But, during the late 1800s and early 1900s, many German immigrants were in effect draft dodgers, so I would not hold that against him.

    Also, you can't really blame Fred Trump for taking advantage of an exemption policy that the government itself had put on offer. (Unless he had somehow lied about his qualification.)

  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Is Obama up for reelection?

    Of course not. But Obama and Clinton are 45's go-to exemplars for behavior he's accused of getting away with.
  • Did Obama dodge the draft in the way Clinton and Trump did?
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    I think Obama May have been too young for the draft. He wasn’t 18 until 1979.
  • Martin54Martin54 Shipmate
    edited January 9
    Xax50 wrote: »
    Trump is the worst president the US has ever had by far, even Richard Nixon was a saint in comparison with him. He is making his country look stupid. I hope he is got rid of sooner rather than later, as he is a danger not only to the US but the rest of the planet.

    He is not yet responsible for hundreds of thousands and millions of utterly unjustifiable deaths unlike Bush Jnr., Clinton, Nixon, Johnson, Roosevelt, Hayes, Grant on back, that's all the slaver presidents, or even the thousands of Obama.
  • Why is that the measure of a good President Martin? Or are there other measures too?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    So yesterday the House Intelligence Committee made public a lot of documents formerly in the possession of Lev Parnas, the former associate/client/henchman of Rudy Giuliani. Vox has a decent explainer on the details, but here a few of the more salient bits:
    • There's a letter from Giuliani requesting a meeting with president-elect Zelensky where Giuliani says he's acting on Trump's behalf
    • Ukrainian prosecutor Lutsenko made a deal to investigate "B" (could be "Burisma" or "Biden") in exchange for removing American Ambassador Marie Yovanovitch. Quid pro quo.
    • Speaking of Yovanovitch, apparently a Trump donor and Congressional candidate named Robert Hyde was tracking her movements, phone/computer use, security detail and texting things to Parnas like "Guess you can do anything in the Ukraine with money … what I was told". Sounds an awful lot like a plan for kidnapping or assassination and might explain why Yovanovitch was abruptly told to come home on the next plane.
    • There's a handwritten (but undated) note by Parnas on hotel stationary saying "Get Zalensky to annonce that the Biden case will be investigated". It would be interesting to know when that note was written, but even more interesting to know who he was talking to when he made that note. Calling it "the Biden case" really gives away the game.

    There's more for those who are interested, but that was yesterday.

    Today Pelosi announced the selection of House Managers for the Senate trial of Donald Trump. For those unfamiliar with the term House Managers are equivalent to prosecutors in a criminal trial. They present the evidence that Donald Trump has committed abuses of his office sufficient to warrant his removal.
  • Holding my breath again...

    I'm trying to remember whether Trump pulled in first time voters in 2016, or whether he just flipped enough people where it mattered.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Holding my breath again...

    I'm trying to remember whether Trump pulled in first time voters in 2016, or whether he just flipped enough people where it mattered.

    Dunno about the first-timers, Simon Toad, but if you're holding your breath, let it be because of the air quality 'round your way due, alas, to fires rather than impeachment outcomes in our neighborhood . . .
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Holding my breath again...

    I'm trying to remember whether Trump pulled in first time voters in 2016, or whether he just flipped enough people where it mattered.

    Most analyses suggest it was the latter rather than the former. Trump lost ground (percentagewise) among white voters overall when compared to Mitt Romney, but he did this by gaining the votes of non-college-educated whites while losing the votes of college-educated whites. Combined with Russian ratfucking and a last minute assist from the FBI it was enough for him to eke out a very narrow electoral college win.

    Working the percentages, Trump got 62,984,825 votes compared to Romney's 60,933,500, an increase of ~3.4%. That seems pretty good, until you note that the total number of votes cast in 2016 increased by 5.9% over the 2012 totals and the number of voting age citizens in the U.S. increased by 4.4% over the same time period.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Holding my breath again...

    I'm trying to remember whether Trump pulled in first time voters in 2016, or whether he just flipped enough people where it mattered.

    Dunno about the first-timers, Simon Toad, but if you're holding your breath, let it be because of the air quality 'round your way due, alas, to fires rather than impeachment outcomes in our neighborhood . . .

    Yeah, I had a chest cold and the cough is hanging around...

    Cheers to both of you. The comparison with Sanders fails again. If he can really pull in newbies, maybe just maybe there will be a blowout.

    Why must I hope so desperately?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    For those who are interested the impeachment trial of Donald Trump is livestreaming here.
  • Thx, Croesos. My own arrangement: audio portion on NPR radio; plus muted TV on PBS, flipping between the impeachment and humorous shows.

    Some of the speakers seem to have gotten a bit sunburned over the weekend.
  • I have the closed captioning on for the trial, and some of it is accidentally hilarious. When CC is done live for an event (whether by software or a human), there can be errors--especially with software, because it may not "understand" certain words, accents, etc. So there've been errors like "moatings and calls", "corrupt screams", etc.
  • Question: Do we need/want a separate thread for discussing the trial itself?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Golden Key wrote: »
    Question: Do we need/want a separate thread for discussing the trial itself?

    There is one I will bump it up.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Prince Charles has just said the opposite to tRump on climate change.

    “Do we want to go down in history as the people who didn’t do anything to bring the world back from the brink?” and advocated green taxes.

    I wonder how tRump will receive that?

    Interesting times.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Speaking of Trump at Davos, here he is essentially confessing to Article II of the impeachment, Obstruction of Congress.
    Honestly, we have all the material. They don't have the material.

    I'm sure this would be the kind of thing that would drive his defense team nuts if they weren't so confident the fix was already in.
  • HedgehogHedgehog Shipmate
    This not exactly a game, but I just had the curiosity to run a web search (DuckDuckGo) of the words "Trump rolls back protections." The number of hits (trying not to list any repeats) include roll backs of existing:
    • Clean Water protection
    • Endangered Species protection
    • EPA protections on coal plants (i.e., the roll back allows for more pollution)
    • Obama-era protections for women workers
    • Protections for trangendered students
    • Health care protections for transgendered patients
    • Flood standards for infrastructure projects
    • Wetlands protections
    • Protections for LGBTQ workers
    And those were just on the first two pages of the search results (most of them listed multiple times).
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Hedgehog forgot to mention that 45 has just rolled back nutrition guidelines for school food services. Another Obama reg.

    45 is dead set on rolling back anything that has Obama's signature on it.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    edited January 26
    As someone on Another Internet Forum™ pointed out, if they could make Trump believe that the Second Amendment had been written by Mr. Obama, he'd have it repealed by executive order before you could say "NRA".
  • But that's genius! Pay Fox News to say so.
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