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Ship of Fools: St Thomas the Apostle, Phoenix, Arizona, USA

The Mystery WorshipperThe Mystery Worshipper Shipmate
edited February 2020 in The Mystery Worshipper

imageShip of Fools: St Thomas the Apostle, Phoenix, Arizona, USA

Dignity and beauty in a most extraordinarily celebrated mass

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here


Comments

  • UrgandaUrganda Shipmate
    Lovely to hear there is still a place for tradition. Our own insights may be brilliant or banal, but there is something behind our passing whims and it sounds very enjoyable in Arizona, as it is here.
  • Pangolin GuerrePangolin Guerre Shipmate
    I found it odd that the KofC were selling dough noughts outside the church before Mass, yet the Bulletin was rather stern about having fasted for an hour before Communion. Were the dough noughts only for those intending not to take Communion? Or are the KofC a cover for the Orange Lodge?

    It has been eons since I've attended an RC church except for funerals, but the music sounds divine (quite literally).
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Suo Gan was first notated by an ancestor of my wife - the poet/folklorist Robert Bryan.
    As a Welshwoman she is mighty proud of it and sings it with emotion whenever it appears before a rugby match where the national team are playing.
    Doughnuts - RC churches tend on Sundays to have masses one after another. It could be that they were for people leaving from the previous celebration.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    edited February 2020
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Doughnuts - RC churches tend on Sundays to have masses one after another. It could be that they were for people leaving from the previous celebration.
    I believe that was the case. The earlier mass had just let out when I arrived, and the Knights were doing a brisk business. In fact, after not speaking to me, the Knight behind the table closed up the donut boxes to save them for when our mass would let out. I'm glad I took one earlier -- the peak of freshness would have worn off by then.

    Of course, had the sermon been longer, we could have gorged ourselves before mass and still have easily observed the one-hour limit. But we would then have been guilty of the grave sin of gluttony.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Doughnuts - RC churches tend on Sundays to have masses one after another. It could be that they were for people leaving from the previous celebration.
    I believe that was the case. The earlier mass had just let out when I arrived, and the Knights were doing a brisk business. In fact, after not speaking to me, the Knight behind the table closed up the donut boxes to save them for when our mass would let out. I'm glad I took one earlier -- the peak of freshness would have worn off by then.

    Of course, had the sermon been longer, we could have gorged ourselves before mass and still have easily observed the one-hour limit. But we would then have been guilty of the grave sin of gluttony.

    Indeed. But I believe it is better for Jesus to sit on a donut than to have the donut sit on him.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Surely one for the SoF Quotes File!
    :lol:
  • Robertus LRobertus L Shipmate
    Given this was Candlemass, was there no blessing of candles and procession? This would normally take place at the principal mass of the day. It seems an odd omission where liturgy seems to have be admirably performed

    And, on the subject of candles, the candles beneath the stations and other places were probably lit in honour of the feast - they may have been the candle sconces associated with a consecrated church.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Robertus L wrote: »
    Given this was Candlemass, was there no blessing of candles and procession? This would normally take place at the principal mass of the day. It seems an odd omission where liturgy seems to have be admirably performed

    And, on the subject of candles, the candles beneath the stations and other places were probably lit in honour of the feast - they may have been the candle sconces associated with a consecrated church.

    We also had no candles at ours. Shame really.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Perhaps the RCC has done away with such Protestant flummeries?

    We had lots of candles, lots of holy water, and a procession, at Our Place.
    Nyah nyah nyah!
    :tongue:
  • Robertus LRobertus L Shipmate
    Truly a pity that the feast was not properly observed, particularly in a church where such an observance would have been fittingly done.

    RCC churches up here seemed to have the blessing and procession - ditto local Anglicans (who admirably still had their crib up yesterday). I think even our local Lutherans manage something ( but I'd have to check what they did this year).
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Perhaps the RCC has done away with such Protestant flummeries?

    We had lots of candles, lots of holy water, and a procession, at Our Place.
    Nyah nyah nyah!
    :tongue:

    Not at all. Its actually not optional. Candles have to be blessed and taken for a nice walk. Its the LAW!!!!!
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    Yes we had the blessing of candles here,as well as a splendid sermon on how one can make the purification of a mother a wonderful thing.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    Robertus L wrote: »
    Given this was Candlemas, was there no blessing of candles and procession? This would normally take place at the principal mass of the day.
    I assume it was done at an earlier mass. The priest did mention that this was the day on which it is done. I don't know if the 11.00 was the principal mass or if they consider an earlier mass to be principal.
    Alan29 wrote: »
    I believe it is better for Jesus to sit on a donut than to have the donut sit on him.
    Perhaps. I really don't think Jesus cares one way or the other what he will find in our stomachs when he gets down there. After all, his Father created our digestive systems, so he knows what he's in for.
  • Choir DroneChoir Drone Shipmate Posts: 13
    Bishops Finger wrote: »
    Perhaps the RCC has done away with such Protestant flummeries?

    We had lots of candles, lots of holy water, and a procession, at Our Place.
    Nyah nyah nyah!
    :tongue:

    Sorry. In Our (RC) Place, not only did Father bless candles, sprinkle and have the choir and altar party process with them (dripping hot wax perilously close to my choir drone robe) after the schola chanted the appropriate Latin prayer, Father invoked St. Blaise and blessed the choirs' throats with candles held in the proscribed manner after Mass.

    Memo to Miss Amanda: There is much good choral singing at Catholic parishes in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Would love for you to come west for a weekend or two and enjoy.
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    I'm assuming that Miss Amanda would be au fait with the Catholic custom of placing 12 candle sconses round the walls of a church which has been consecrated. The candles are usually lit on the anniversary day of the consecration or indeed on the 9th of November which is the Dedication of the Archbasilica of our Saviour/ aka St John Lateran in Rome which serves as the model (not architecture ! ) of all the churches of the world.
    'Consecration' seems to be a word not so often used nowadays in Catholic speak - the 'consecration' of abishop is called 'episcopal ordination' and the consecration of a church is referred to as 'dedication' with only FOUR candles required around the walls.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Only fork handles?

    Is Outrage!
  • ForthviewForthview Shipmate
    thought you might make a link there BF
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    I actually thought the candles beneath the Stations were rather a nice touch, but distracting. But why beneath the ventilation ducts? Seems to me they would blow out whenever the furnace or A/C came on. None of them were lit on the day of my visit, by the way.

    As for visiting churches with good choirs in Los Angeles: Miss Amanda's dance card is never empty but there's always room for a kind invitation. She would also welcome reports filed by others besides herself and Urganda. Urganda seems quite the traveler, but she wouldn't expect Urganda to undertake a trip halfway around the world just to visit Los Angeles. To paraphrase Charles Dickens: Are there no churchgoers? Is there no writing paper? Are there no computers?
  • UrgandaUrganda Shipmate
    Sorry, Miss Amanda. Britain is my limit.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    O well, never mind - that gives you plenty of scope for the foreseeable future!
    :grin:
  • Choir DroneChoir Drone Shipmate Posts: 13
    Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »
    I actually thought the candles beneath the Stations were rather a nice touch, but distracting. But why beneath the ventilation ducts? Seems to me they would blow out whenever the furnace or A/C came on. None of them were lit on the day of my visit, by the way.

    As for visiting churches with good choirs in Los Angeles: Miss Amanda's dance card is never empty but there's always room for a kind invitation. She would also welcome reports filed by others besides herself and Urganda. Urganda seems quite the traveler, but she wouldn't expect Urganda to undertake a trip halfway around the world just to visit Los Angeles. To paraphrase Charles Dickens: Are there no churchgoers? Is there no writing paper? Are there no computers?

    Ah Miss Amanda, my dance card is filled each Sunday with my choir drone obligations. But an invitation to the 10 am Mass at St. Francis de Sales in Sherman Oaks or the noon Mass at St. Cyril of Jerusalem in Encino (the drone's venue) is always open. Methinks you will like the liturgies. Urganda is of course also welcome, and LA is a short 12 hours from London on BA.
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    We shall see. I'll take your suggestions under advisement. But for the sake of this thread, let's relegate any additional invitations that may be forthcoming to All Saints, shall we?
  • Choir DroneChoir Drone Shipmate Posts: 13
    On their way, your Amandaness.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    If you light a candle before a ventilation duct, do your prayers go out through the duct and get up to heaven quicker? Or do they stay where they are because the candle gets blown out?

    Does it depend whether the duct is for ventilation or air blown heating/air conditioning?
  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Shipmate
    It would govern whether the droplets of wax are still hot, or have been cooled, when they land on you.
  • teddybearteddybear Shipmate Posts: 24
    Amanda B Reckondwyth wrote: »
    It would govern whether the droplets of wax are still hot, or have been cooled, when they land on you.
    n how many days indulgence for each drop of hot wax? cold wax?

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Hot wax on the wrists is an occupational hazard for acolytes. Not pleasant and you have to watch quite how you react. Certainly not the exclamation you might make at the surf club. I can't imagine much heat left in a drop from one of these candles by the time it reaches a worshipper's head.
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