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Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Penny S wrote: »
    I thought it was that one had got oneself the easy job, while everyone else was hauling on the bowline, or up the rigging, or whatever else energetic was going on.
    I think that's correct.

    It's possible that 'skiving' may have got it's colloquial meaning the same way.

  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    edited June 2020
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    But there are also a number of books which come out of traditional publishing and still use no quotation marks for anything--long quote, short quote, internal mental voice, nothing. I think they think they're being avant-garde. I believe they're being pains in the butt.
    Wasn’t Cry, the Beloved Country written that way, with no quotation marks?

    Cry, the Beloved Country uses a dash at the beginning of each line (that is, each time a new character speaks). My recollection is that it's not unique in that, that Alan Paton adopted that practice from some other author. Though I can't remember who.

    So speech is still clearly marked. Just not using quotation marks.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    The current book I'm reading on Kindle is bad in many ways, but it does have quotation marks. (What can I say? I devour junk fiction the same way some people devour junk food.)

    It did throw up another difference between our countries. The main character is in her final week of school. She is still being taught, she will be tested on what she's learnt, and she's worried if she fails the test she won't graduate. Is this normal? None of that would fit in the UK.
  • Thanks @Curiosity killed, @Penny S and @Enoch. I’m guessing “swinging the lead” is an expression that maybe didn’t cross the Atlantic.

    orfeo wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    But there are also a number of books which come out of traditional publishing and still use no quotation marks for anything--long quote, short quote, internal mental voice, nothing. I think they think they're being avant-garde. I believe they're being pains in the butt.
    Wasn’t Cry, the Beloved Country written that way, with no quotation marks?
    Cry, the Beloved Country uses a dash at the beginning of each line (that is, each time a new character speaks). My recollection is that it's not unique in that, that Alan Paton adopted that practice from some other author. Though I can't remember who.

    So speech is still clearly marked. Just not using quotation marks.
    And another thanks. It’s been decades since I read it, so my memory is fuzzy.

    The current book I'm reading on Kindle is bad in many ways, but it does have quotation marks. (What can I say? I devour junk fiction the same way some people devour junk food.)

    It did throw up another difference between our countries. The main character is in her final week of school. She is still being taught, she will be tested on what she's learnt, and she's worried if she fails the test she won't graduate. Is this normal? None of that would fit in the UK.
    Not really, or not exactly. Teaching (in my experience) ends a week or two before the end of school. Final exams will take place in the last week+.

    That said, yes it is indeed possible that if one’s grades are otherwise low enough, failing the final exam means one won’t graduate.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    A more detailed explanation of swinging the lead.

    Similar to our goldbricking expression.

    I think Clements worked for a while on a paddleboat steamer on the Mississippi. If I am correct, a steamboat had to have two marks--hence "mark twain"-- in order to safely navigate the river.
  • I'd call deer a flock. Whitetails and mule deer here. Elk (wapiti) in the fall are found in harems: one male and a group of females. Moose? Just run away or get behind a tree.
  • It did throw up another difference between our countries. The main character is in her final week of school. She is still being taught, she will be tested on what she's learnt, and she's worried if she fails the test she won't graduate. Is this normal? None of that would fit in the UK.

    High schools here have their final end-of-semester exams on the last three days of school. So if that was Wed/Thur/Fri (it often is) then they'd have more or less normal-looking classes on Mon and Tue, although I'd expect them to be finishing stuff up rather than learning anything new.

    The final exam contributes to the course grade, so there are plenty of kids who would be in danger of getting a failing grade if they perform badly on the exam. (Equally, plenty of other kids can't fail by the time they get to the final exam, but could drop an A to a B with a bad performance.)

    High schools require you to pass a certain number of courses, including specific core courses, to graduate. So yes - if this is a required class, or she's low on credits, then failing the course would mean she wouldn't have enough credits to graduate.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    A more detailed explanation of swinging the lead.

    Similar to our goldbricking expression.
    Goldbricking? That one’s unknown to me too, I’m afraid.

  • orfeo wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    But there are also a number of books which come out of traditional publishing and still use no quotation marks for anything--long quote, short quote, internal mental voice, nothing. I think they think they're being avant-garde. I believe they're being pains in the butt.
    Wasn’t Cry, the Beloved Country written that way, with no quotation marks?

    Cry, the Beloved Country uses a dash at the beginning of each line (that is, each time a new character speaks). My recollection is that it's not unique in that, that Alan Paton adopted that practice from some other author. Though I can't remember who.

    So speech is still clearly marked. Just not using quotation marks.

    It could be Roddy Doyle. I liked that style and stole it for some short stories of my own a few years ago. (They weren't as good as his).
  • Penny SPenny S Shipmate
    I'm not sure about the second part of the lead swinging explanation on the web site- you have to swing it anyway to get it clear of the boat, and if you did not do it properly, you endangered everyone, and the cargo, and everyone could see you were doing it. When I can get to my Brewer, I'll see what they say, but the books are currently behind the stuff I am having to move to allow the changing of the freezer.
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host
    The trend of leaving out quotation marks is far more likely to crop up in highbrow literary fiction than in mainstream or genre fiction. I've heard authors give impassioned justifications for why they think it's important to do without the quotation marks but to me it always just comes across as a very visible marker of "Hey! I'm A Serious Author!"
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    The books I've been reading are most definitely not highbrow! I don't have the mental energy right now.
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    edited June 2020
    orfeo wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    But there are also a number of books which come out of traditional publishing and still use no quotation marks for anything--long quote, short quote, internal mental voice, nothing. I think they think they're being avant-garde. I believe they're being pains in the butt.
    Wasn’t Cry, the Beloved Country written that way, with no quotation marks?

    Cry, the Beloved Country uses a dash at the beginning of each line (that is, each time a new character speaks). My recollection is that it's not unique in that, that Alan Paton adopted that practice from some other author. Though I can't remember who.

    So speech is still clearly marked. Just not using quotation marks.

    It could be Roddy Doyle. I liked that style and stole it for some short stories of my own a few years ago. (They weren't as good as his).

    Cry, the Beloved Country was written over a decade before Roddy Doyle was born. So, no.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    A more detailed explanation of swinging the lead.

    Similar to our goldbricking expression.
    Goldbricking? That one’s unknown to me too, I’m afraid.

    Goldbricking is the practice of doing less work than one is able to while maintaining the appearance of working. The term originates from the confidence trick of applying a gold coating to a brick of worthless metal—while the worker may appear industrious on the surface, in reality, they are less valuable.
  • AravisAravis Shipmate
    Using a hyphen instead of quotation marks is also a feature of French literature.
  • Aravis wrote: »
    Using a hyphen instead of quotation marks is also a feature of French literature.
    Along with the use of 《 》 marking speech.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Hey, I had fun with this thread. I see it is nearly at the end of its life, but I did want to propose a (rather old) punctuation for renewal.

    The sarcatastrophe: ^ Denotes sarcasm. To be placed both at the beginning of a sentence that is to be taking sarcastically and at the end: e.g.

    ^It never rains in England.^
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    This thread is definitely fit for Limbo. :smile:
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Would that be American Limbo or British?
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Did someone say limbo stick?
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Did someone say limbo stick?

    Thanks, now I'm going to have that stupid song stuck in my head all evening.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    :smiley:
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    I've come across a Canadian phrase, which was something like, "taken to the doctor's" and means "cheated". I can't imagine a link between the two; can anyone elucidate?
  • SparrowSparrow Shipmate
    In the UK it would be "taken to the cleaners".

  • "Taken to the cleaners" is what we say here (PNW USA). Or "fleeced".
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    My mind is going. The phrase was something about dinner, rather than doctors.
  • George SpiggottGeorge Spiggott Shipmate Posts: 9
    When I visited Texas I got on ok for the most part. I did however forget where I was in sandwich shops and kept asking for tomato which lead to baffled looks until my host stepped in and explained that I meant to-may-to.

    To my ears both words don't sound that different but id have been left hungry if they hadn't stepped in.
  • I once asked multiple times for a new spoon in a restaurant, but I had been in Chicago just long enough to pick up the different way of pronouncing it, and the kid at the counter back in Seattle didn't understand it. Finally I exaggeratedly said spooooooooon, and he got it.
  • George SpiggottGeorge Spiggott Shipmate Posts: 9
    I'm reminded of this delightful anecdote.

    In 1964 English author Monica Dickens, the great-granddaughter of Charles Dickens, was visiting Australia to promote a book. During a signing session in Sydney, a woman presented her with one of her books and said “Emma Chisit”. Dickens dutifully wrote “To Emma Chisit” on the inside cover, signed her name. and handed it back. “Naw!” said the woman, “Emma chisit?” After several more rounds of this it dawned on Monica that the woman had asked, in an Australian accent, “How much is it?”
  • Can any stateside shipmate enlighten a poor ignorant Brit about the expression 'slam dunk'? I assume it has no connection with doughnuts?
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    Can any stateside shipmate enlighten a poor ignorant Brit about the expression 'slam dunk'? I assume it has no connection with doughnuts?
    No, it's related to basketball. A slam dunk is when a player jumps right at the basket and forcefully dunks the ball through the net. See here.

    Colloquially, a "slam dunk" means a "sure thing."

  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    I did know that, but I love the idea of aggressive donut dunking!
  • I did know that, but I love the idea of aggressive donut dunking!

    That's because you don't have to wipe up the counter.
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I once asked multiple times for a new spoon in a restaurant, but I had been in Chicago just long enough to pick up the different way of pronouncing it, and the kid at the counter back in Seattle didn't understand it. Finally I exaggeratedly said spooooooooon, and he got it.

    My Australian step-daughter did something similar on her first vist to London: she asked for a "spun". Also "marone" for the colour maroon.
  • I once tried very hard in Chicago to get some Cranberry juice at a restaurant. What the server hear was not cranberry juice, but "cran bridges"!
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    How do people pronounce the word "apricot"?

    I've just been struck by an American (not sure what region) pronouncing it with a really short "a". Whereas I use a longer "ay" sound.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    UK normal = ay-pri (short i)-cot.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Have we discussed Zed or Zee already? Zed is in Shakespeare, so where does Zee come from?
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    Have we discussed Zed or Zee already? Zed is in Shakespeare, so where does Zee come from?

    First attested to in the 1670s, apparently. Possibly to be more consistent with bee, cee, dee etc.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Aypreecot is a bit more more common here than aypricot (with the short i) but not much in it.
  • I've heard apricot with the short 'a', and I think it must have been in the UK, because it was a long time ago (and I'm not sure I've ever discussed that particular fruit with an American.) But I'd certainly think it an unusual pronunciation.
  • Short A for apricot and avocado. Ay-pricot and Aw-vocado sound odd to me. Similarly pasta has a short A: compare paw-sta.

    Marzipan is another. Martz-i-pan for me. I hear Mars-i-pan.
  • Of course the French 'abricot' has a short 'a', so that is probably strictly correct. But 'aypricot' is in my experience universal in the UK. Can't have those Frogs telling us how to speak our own language, can we?
  • Reported to Styx.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    Rolling of Hostly eyes
    @Eirenist: Please remember which board you are on. We don't countenance disparaging names for citizens of other countries, even if used in jest.
    Looking across the road to see where the Hostly eyes have rolled off to.

    Also, @NOprophet_NØprofit your post wasn't particularly Heavenly, either. I'm giving you grace in sympathy with your present grief.

    jedijudy
    Heaven Host
  • Gill HGill H Shipmate
    Apes eat apricots (well, they may not, but they sound like them here in the UK).

    I first heard the short ‘a’ version in ‘You’re So Vain’ so evidently it is a US pronunciation, or at least in Carly Simon’s neck of the woods.

    Talking of pronunciation in songs, Faith Hill’s ‘This Kiss’ talks about ‘cen-TRIF-u-gal motion’ whereas I would say ‘centri-FEW-gal’.



  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Marzipan is normally 'mars-i-pan' here. A 'tz' sound would be odd.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    And what about "solicitor"? I've only known it as a type of lawyer, but in the American novel I am currently reading it seems to refer to a door to door salesman.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    orfeo wrote: »
    Have we discussed Zed or Zee already? Zed is in Shakespeare, so where does Zee come from?

    First attested to in the 1670s, apparently. Possibly to be more consistent with bee, cee, dee etc.

    Attested to in Britain?
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    edited August 2020
    First syllable of apricot (which takes the accent) has the æ vowel sound of app, sap, clap, rap, trap, map, zap. Here in the PNW of the USA.
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