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Heaven: 2021 Proof Americans and Brits speak a different language

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  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Most English speakers never notice that "long" a, i, o, u are diphthongs. It's only when you start learning foreign languages and really listen and concentrate on how your mouth is moving you realise how odd and diphthongy the English vowel system is.
    Or when you start learning something like, say, singing. Trained singers have to be very aware of vowels.

    There aren't very many of those. Even within the music industry.
    Well, I have a Bachelor of Music degree and have always sung in choirs (except for now, of course), so there are lots of them in my world, both trained soloists and trained choral singers. And I have rarely encountered a church choir director or school choral director who didn’t at least introduce his or her singers to the basic concepts of pure vowels and diphthongs so as to get consistent and appropriate vowel sounds from the group.

    Rarely a thing over here outside the major Cathedral schools and professional classical singers, I'd say.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    You may be right, KarlLB, but it is something which I remember from my school choir days, and which is regularly the subject of attention in the amateur choir I now sing in.
  • Perhaps I've been unlucky but a streak of anti-intellectualism has been a feature of too many choirs I've been in. Being able to read music made you one of the keenies...
  • Gwai wrote: »
    I have only heard it used lightly. For instance, I know someone who stole his husband's food (from his plate) and used that as an excuse when he was caught and mock glared at.

    If anyone, ANYONE, tries that with me they will get stabbed in the hand with a fork.

  • Earlier today I ran across the phrase "cash on the barrelhead", which I've always used. I quickly looked it up on line, curious about the origin, and it seems to be American, 17thC. The thing of it is, I've heard it used in the UK I think more frequently than the UK "cash on the nailhead" - but I won't swear to that. Thoughts?
  • Earlier today I ran across the phrase "cash on the barrelhead", which I've always used. I quickly looked it up on line, curious about the origin, and it seems to be American, 17thC. The thing of it is, I've heard it used in the UK I think more frequently than the UK "cash on the nailhead" - but I won't swear to that. Thoughts?

    "Cash on the nail" is the English term (not "nailhead"). I've never head "barrelhead" in the UK, but it's not impossible that it could have been imported from the US.
  • Interesting, I've always heard it just as "cash on the barrel".
  • Pangolin GuerrePangolin Guerre Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    @KarlLB The long vowels amongst my family from Zambia/Zimbabwe/RSA are quite pure, definitely not diphthongs. I haven't seen my cousin in years, and after her coming to Canada at age 12, I wonder what she sounds like.

    I have noticed that some people (waving hand) who've grown up in a Finnish-influenced environment, as in the home, will have a slight accent, noticeable in some consonants (less aspiration) and vowels tend to be 'purer', less 'diphthongy' than in English Canadian accents.
  • Earlier today I ran across the phrase "cash on the barrelhead", which I've always used.
    NicoleMR wrote: »
    Interesting, I've always heard it just as "cash on the barrel".
    Meanwhile, it’s a totally unknown expression to me. I had to look up what it means.

  • Isn't it a reference to, well, counting out purchase money on a makeshift countertop (the barrel end)? Like one of those general stores.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I've never heard of cash being on the barrel-head or the nail-head. 'Paying on the nail' is the normal expression here, but that derives from some specific nails which stand outside the Corn Exchange in Bristol which is in England.

  • I've always heard 'cash on the knocker'
  • I've head all variants except "on the knocker." I wonder whether it's not a door knocker, but rapping the table, akin to spitting in one's palm before shaking hands.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    I've never heard of cash being on the barrel-head or the nail-head. 'Paying on the nail' is the normal expression here, but that derives from some specific nails which stand outside the Corn Exchange in Bristol which is in England.

    OED offers a 14th century Norman French "payer sur le ungle" which would rather predate either the Corn Exchange or any specific nails that might be there. But back-derivations happen often.
  • Enoch wrote: »
    I've never heard of cash being on the barrel-head or the nail-head. 'Paying on the nail' is the normal expression here, but that derives from some specific nails which stand outside the Corn Exchange in Bristol which is in England.

    Ah, thank you. I was trying to remember where that came from, and all I could think of was a sketch of them in one of the 'I Spy" books that we had when we were very young. Google Images shows them nicely.
  • Cash on the barrelhead:
    Immediate payment, as in They won't extend credit; it's cash on the barrelhead or no sale. The lexicographer Charles Earle Funk surmised that this term originated in the days when upended barrels served as both seats and tables in bars, and customers were required to pay for their drinks immediately, literally putting their money on the top (head) of a barrel.
    (dictionary.com)

    I still hear it at cash auctions.
  • rhubarb wrote: »
    I've always heard 'cash on the knocker'

    It's an Australian expression meaning on demand or immediately.
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    I have no familiarity with any of these expressions about cash being somewhere, at all. Barrel, nail, knocker... I've no idea what any of you are talking about.
  • You live and you learn; could be because you post date the regular use of such expressions...
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    edited November 2020
    I'm middle-aged. As it's traditionally not polite to ask a woman's age, I don't propose going around the room and inquiring if you're all a bunch of old farts.
  • Guilty as charged😂😜
  • I'm not personally an an old fart. And beyond middle aged. Older adults fart more, though perhaps I should note that I know of one person who farts more when older.

    Which brings me to farts are called where you live. Having gas, and passing gas was usual when I was young. Breaking or passing wind was something I heard to describe this later. Fart was thought of as a semi-bad word.
  • Fart (together with another 4-letter word beginning with f) was unheard of in my childhood. In my family, we called it a 'prub', i.e. a backwards burp.
  • That's why one used to hear and still do, perhaps, the phrase 'blowing a raspberry' as a euphemism., being rhyming slang from 'raspberry tart'. This may be a UK only thing, though.
  • My partner's young grandson calls it a "Trump".
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Is that for if it lingers around after it should have gone?
  • LydaLyda Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    Is that for if it lingers around after it should have gone?

    Or that it's stinky. :confounded:
  • Growing up on my family we called it as 'pardon' as in 'Daddy's done a pardon!' I guess this came from the word you were supposed to utter afterwards.

    But since for many years that was the only meaning of 'pardon' that I knew, there was much scope for confusion. And it contributed to rather obscene imagery for me in a line of the hymn 'Man of Sorrows' which goes 'sealed my pardon with his blood'
  • edited November 2020
    (I fear there may be a host split of this thread to either Heaven or Hell re farts if we keep this going.)
  • When we were very young the local rector got around on an old motorbike that had a distinctive sound. I can't remember when it started, but my older sister and I always referred to a fart as a 'motorbike'.
  • 'Luggage' or 'baggage'?
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    'Luggage' or 'baggage'?
    Generally “luggage” if you’re talking about suitcases and the like, “baggage” if you’re talking in the emotional or psychological sense.

  • In Dover there was built a spiral staircase with three lots of stairs, to join the Western Heights forts with the sealevel town. One flight was for officers and their ladies, one for NCOs and their wives, the other for other ranks and their baggages. So it is told.
  • Nick Tamen wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'Luggage' or 'baggage'?
    Generally “luggage” if you’re talking about suitcases and the like, “baggage” if you’re talking in the emotional or psychological sense.

    This
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    But here, you often hear of the baggage counter and pick-up at airports. Sometimes you hear of luggage. Both are in use for the physical object.
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    edited November 2020
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'Luggage' or 'baggage'?

    Luggage until you get somewhere near an airport.

    EDIT: Or neither. Just "bags".
  • orfeo wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'Luggage' or 'baggage'?

    Luggage until you get somewhere near an airport.

    Where it's "baggage claim". Good point.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Or sometime the hybrid: I'll take the bags to the luggage counter while you park the car.
  • orfeoorfeo Suspended
    edited November 2020
    mousethief wrote: »
    orfeo wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'Luggage' or 'baggage'?

    Luggage until you get somewhere near an airport.

    Where it's "baggage claim". Good point.

    Yes. It's a bit odd, but if I was shopping for a suitcase I'd expect to see a sign about "luggage", but once I was using it I'd expect to see a sign about "baggage".

    But that's if I'm flying. If for some reason I was using the bus to travel to Sydney, my mind says "luggage". For a train, well... all bets are off at that point.

    Whereas if I was talking about it myself I'd be far more likely to talk about my suitcase or bag and not use either of those other words.
  • Gracious RebelGracious Rebel Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    As an aside about 'luggage' my partner (Hungarian/Romanian) is the only person I know who uses a plural for it, as in 'bring the luggages' etc. (Her use of plurals in general is a little idiosyncratic though, as she might say 'bring me that trouser' etc for words that are always plural normally.)
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    It's always 'left luggage' for depositing one's stuff temporarily. 'Left baggage' would sound like a place for dumping abandoned female companions.

  • "How much luggage/baggage do you have"
    A suitcase and a duffel.

    My carry-on might be a knapsack, a day pack (the former might be larger, or it may refer to what's in it)

    My father would have said a grip for a small bag sort of like a large rectangular man bag.
  • As an aside about 'luggage' my partner (Hungarian/Romanian) is the only person I know who uses a plural for it, as in 'bring the luggages' etc. (Her use of plurals in general is a little idiosyncratic though, as she might say 'bring me that trouser' etc for words that are always plural normally.)

    I'm guessing that "trouser" is singular in Hungarian or Romanian, as it is in many other European languages.
  • Stresses have changed a fair bit in UK English since the 1950s.

    An RP speaker back then would have said 'ges stove' for 'gas stove' with a fairly even stress throughout. These days is would be more like 'gAS stOVE' - there is a more marked emphasis towards the end of the words.

    Hence the observations Anselmina makes about 'distri-BUTE' etc. It's not universal of course, as KarlLB indicates but things seem to be heading that way.

    Reminds me of the schoolboy joke from my youth.
    Q. What is sex?
    A. It’s what the coal comes in!
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Or the definition of a creche: a collision between two cars in Morningside*

    * or insert name of local posh neighbourhood
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Isn't it a reference to, well, counting out purchase money on a makeshift countertop (the barrel end)? Like one of those general stores.

    That's my understanding. I don't know what the UK "on the nail" would be, unless nailing paper money to a wall?
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Isn't it a reference to, well, counting out purchase money on a makeshift countertop (the barrel end)? Like one of those general stores.

    That's my understanding. I don't know what the UK "on the nail" would be, unless nailing paper money to a wall?

    Enoch had it right, I think, back up the thread a bit:
    Enoch wrote: »
    I've never heard of cash being on the barrel-head or the nail-head. 'Paying on the nail' is the normal expression here, but that derives from some specific nails which stand outside the Corn Exchange in Bristol which is in England.
    See: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/the-nails-bristol-england
  • As an aside about 'luggage' my partner (Hungarian/Romanian) is the only person I know who uses a plural for it, as in 'bring the luggages' etc. (Her use of plurals in general is a little idiosyncratic though, as she might say 'bring me that trouser' etc for words that are always plural normally.)

    I'm guessing that "trouser" is singular in Hungarian or Romanian, as it is in many other European languages.

    And the other way around for underwear. Some of the French and Italians I grew up with spoke of "underwears".
  • In British books I have read, the pointy end of a ship or boat is "the bows" whereas in the US at least, each vessel has only one when speaking of the pointy end (more than one when giving bearings, confusingly).
  • I suppose the two sides are 'bowed' to make the point. Just a guess on my part. But I think in naval circles 'the bow' is usually the word.
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