There are certainly quite a few rocks around Aberystwyth; and clouds are no exactly rare there either!
I trust you sang "Alleluia, sing to Jesus" to Hyfrydol?
Indeed we did. Although I grew up singing Wesley's 'Alleluia' tune, so as much as I love Hydrofoil it always feels slightly 'wrong' sung to 'Alleluia, sing to Jesus'. Which I know makes no sense. Just shows the power of early nurture!
There are certainly quite a few rocks around Aberystwyth; and clouds are no exactly rare there either!
I trust you sang "Alleluia, sing to Jesus" to Hyfrydol?
Indeed we did. Although I grew up singing Wesley's 'Alleluia' tune, so as much as I love Hydrofoil it always feels slightly 'wrong' sung to 'Alleluia, sing to Jesus'. Which I know makes no sense. Just shows the power of early nurture!
The Baby Jesus cries when Hyfrydol is not used.
Even though he's not Welsh.
Isn't there something about the Welsh being the lost tribe of Israel or something?
I enjoy singing in church but the other day i read that St Augustine of Hippo wrote, " Whenever the song delights me more than what is sung, I recognise that I have committed a grave wrong" I guess he meant that the lyrics are more important than the quality of the singing and overall sound
I enjoy singing in church but the other day i read that St Augustine of Hippo wrote, " Whenever the song delights me more than what is sung, I recognise that I have committed a grave wrong" I guess he meant that the lyrics are more important than the quality of the singing and overall sound
Or perhaps that an attitude of praise is more important than personal enjoyment or fulfillment.
I enjoy singing in church but the other day i read that St Augustine of Hippo wrote, " Whenever the song delights me more than what is sung, I recognise that I have committed a grave wrong" I guess he meant that the lyrics are more important than the quality of the singing and overall sound
Or perhaps that an attitude of praise is more important than personal enjoyment or fulfillment.
He actually said that sermons were the most important
I enjoy singing in church but the other day i read that St Augustine of Hippo wrote, " Whenever the song delights me more than what is sung, I recognise that I have committed a grave wrong" I guess he meant that the lyrics are more important than the quality of the singing and overall sound
Hi Telford, welcome back.
Augustine of Hippo is also credited with the saying: “ He who sings well, prays twice”
Shows how much time I have ( as a congenital Roman)for said catechism. I am familiar with the adverb “well” these last 56years since the launch of the Living Parish Hymn Book in Oz
Qui is masculine, but can be taken as being any person, male or female - using the feminine quae would mean the statement could only apply to a woman. A convention that we would question today but the Romans wouldn't have.
Not necessarily. My googling yields about the same split between qui cantat bis orat and qui bene cantat bis orat as it does between “he who sings prays twice” and “he who sings well prays twice.”
I enjoy singing in church but the other day i read that St Augustine of Hippo wrote, " Whenever the song delights me more than what is sung, I recognise that I have committed a grave wrong" I guess he meant that the lyrics are more important than the quality of the singing and overall sound
Hi Telford, welcome back.
Thanks
Augustine of Hippo is also credited with the saying: “ He who sings well, prays twice”
I need to actually pray twice then. Perhaps he was referring to the song lyrics
I enjoy singing in church but the other day i read that St Augustine of Hippo wrote, " Whenever the song delights me more than what is sung, I recognise that I have committed a grave wrong" I guess he meant that the lyrics are more important than the quality of the singing and overall sound
Hi Telford, welcome back.
Thanks
Augustine of Hippo is also credited with the saying: “ He who sings well, prays twice”
I need to actually pray twice then. Perhaps he was referring to the song lyrics
No reason why he should be referring to the lyrics any more than the tune, or the attitude of the singer, is there? As God looks on the heart, it would seem to be more logical that what's going on inside there is more important. Admittedly crap lyrics might make it harder for some people to connect worshipfully. But then so might a crap tune. And a crap attitude definitely!
Naturally, I value some of what the Early Church Fathers said, but I prefer the scriptures that enjoin us to sing psalms and spiritual songs, and to praise God with our voices and various instruments. Such a healthy human thing to do, when done with enjoyment and appreciation.
FatherInCharge tells me that the singing at Our Place last Sunday was *wonderful*.
He kept the Feast Of The Assumption, got up regardless with all the Roaming Carflick readings and things, so the hymns were all on the same theme. Alas, the service wasn't livestreamed (last minute illness of the chap who was going to film it), so it didn't get online, and I haven't myself heard the hymns.
There was a fair congregation present (the past few weeks' attendance having been distinctly sparse), so it was encouraging to hear some good news.
Another CofS today. Barn of a place with 20 in it. Mission Praise again, which means that I boldly edit the sexist language as I go along.
Crown him with many crowns,
Go forth and tell
O for a closer walk with God
Out of my bondage, sorrow and night
Soldiers of Christ arise and out your armour on
I do wonder if churches which use Mission Praise do so, not for the 1970s and 80s “modern” songs, but because it is where some of the items dropped by later denominational hymn books can still be found. I wonder if they would rather have Redemption Songs if enough copies could be sourced? At least this one wasn’t torturing an organist with its repertoire, but used a digital machine.
Well, this morning was different. We'd expected a retired local minister to be leading worship, but he didn't turn up (I'm still waiting on hearing if that was my mistake putting him down in our diary when it wasn't in his, or if there's a more serious problem). Which left me to quickly read the lectionary passages, reject the OT stuff about bringing the Ark into the Temple in favour of the Gospel and Epistle and quickly see what theme spoke to me, while the organist went around the congregation gathering a list of favourite hymns - and I put my choice in at the end that was directly linked to the Epistle. We then had four hymns that flowed nicely to form a service for me to lead, starting only 5 mins after scheduled start time.
Just as I am, without one plea Prayers thanking God that we can come to Him in worship even when no one has anything prepared, when tossed about by an uncertain world we come.
Readings from Ephesians 6:10-20 (armour of God) and John 6: 59-70 (some disciples leave, the Twelve declare Jesus has the words of eternal life and they'll stay)
Reflection/sermon prepared in a few minutes on standing firm in the power of God, maintaining our faith in Christ in face of the forces working against us as the 12 stayed faithful.
Soldiers of Christ! arise and put your armour on
Prayers for a world of uncertainty, where so many have been tossed about by circumstances beyond their control - Afghanistan and Haiti.
Communion hymn Make me a channel of your peace
Closing hymn Abide with me
Benediction: that we abide in God as he abides with us, standing firm in the faith and power of God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I normally spend a long time selecting appropriate hymns. But, the congregation without even knowing what the readings would be go and select good hymns in a few minutes.
We started about 10 min late as we were back to having worship led remotely and one of the elders made an excellent suggestion about re-siting the projector screen and it took a little longer to sort out than anticipated. Then we were struck by technical issues, I think due to overload on the local 4g network due to holiday traffic. Our hymns were:
Come, now is the time to worship (despite my best efforts it's very hard to get my computer to play this the way I'm used to singing it)
How lovely is thy dwelling place (RETIREMENT)
How sweet the name of Jesus sounds (ST PETER)
Spirit of the living God
Soldiers of Christ arise (DIADEMATA) [Like everyone else]
Alan that's awesome to put together a service like that in such limited time. Sounds like it flowed really well. Would love to have been there!
Our minister was back from hols today and chose one hymn the same as we had two weeks ago when I was last there 'Lord of Creation to you be all praise' to the tune of Slane. We also sang 'And Can it Be' (to Sagina of course) and although the choir are still supposed to be singing unison (hangover from Covid restrictions when we were the only singers allowed), I was disconcerted that the 'mens part' at the end of each verse wasn't being covered by our one man .... so myself and another alto did it ourselves (or a version of it) from the second verse onwards.
I was disconcerted that the 'mens part' at the end of each verse wasn't being covered by our one man .... so myself and another alto did it ourselves (or a version of it) from the second verse onwards.
Yes, I agree, you can't not have that! I assumed though that you were singing congregationally anyway?
I was disconcerted that the 'mens part' at the end of each verse wasn't being covered by our one man .... so myself and another alto did it ourselves (or a version of it) from the second verse onwards.
Yes, I agree, you can't not have that! I assumed though that you were singing congregationally anyway?
We are still singing as a choir from the back of the balcony (up to 8 unmasked choir members allowed.) Rest of congregation can now sing also, but wearing masks.
We are still singing communally in the car park at the end of the evening service, though I think that will change in September and we will be singing indoors with masks. There are 60-80 of us meeting and we are led by one of the worship team with a guitar, I can’t remember the first song but we then had:
Matt Redman’s 10 000 reasons/Bless the Lord
O praise the name/I cast my mind to Calvary (Sampson, Ussher and Hastings)
The skies were darkening and moody, and the local birds from the Cam (mostly seagulls) began to swarm overhead to check out the noise. It was quite beautiful and eerie, but vaguely reminiscent of a scene from The Birds.
We're singing indoors, with masks. A couple of "golden oldies" yesterday!
“Praise to the holiest in the height” (Richmond).
“Standing on the promises”.
“Yield not to temptation”.
“Dear Lord and Father of mankind” (Repton).
“May the mind of Christ, my Saviour” (St Leonard's).
Yesterday the choir led, 8 of us rather than the previously allowed 6, and the congregation were encouraged to sing. Most were wearing masks, as requested. About 20 in the congregation, but there was a later service in another church in the benefice.
At the 9.15 Communion we sang
Angel voices ever singing
Let us break bread together
We pray thee heavenly Father, during communion
Be thou my vision.
No anthems as several members had been on holiday and missed rehearsal, and the DoM is still in hospital.
Evensong resumed for the first time since March last year. About 10 attended, plus choir of 6.
Ye holy angels bright
Lord Jesus think on me.
Abide with me.
FatherInCharge tells me that the singing at Our Place last Sunday was *wonderful*.
On my return to Our Place a couple of weeks ago the Officiating Person declared that the singing sounded really good from behind the masks and perhaps we should keep them.
I completely forgot to make a note of what we sang yesterday morning and can therefore only remember two:
Jesus Strong and Kind which was a new one on me and "By Grace Alone Somehow I Stand" to finish with.
We still haven't started singing. I spent 14 months playing mood music during Mass (before, offertory, communion and something jolly at the end) to break up the monotony of the endless spoken word.
I took our customary August break, because, frankly enough is enough!
Wife went to Mass yesterday to be greeted by people saying "Where's Alan? Why isn't he playing? It's nonsense that he isn't playing."
Makes me want to tell them to just f*** right off!
I can hear the screams of ken (the roundhead) all the way from Glory.
I wouldn't blame him - I don't like it either. But (a) it fitted the theme of "foolishness" from Proverbs 9 (we did "wisdom" the week before) and (b) lots of people do like it. There is of course The Other Tune ("Rest") which few people seem to know.
It's a song I really like (there was a good version on "Songs of Praise" a few years ago, ostensibly sung on Brighton railway station). However I feel it's better performed by a group than sung by a congregation - YMMV.
I really like this song too, but agree with BT that its not really suitable for congregational use. Thanks for the YouYube link ... worth following for the discussion underneath which includes the following gem
Like people now since the virus and restrictions I do not wish to try to sing these hymns and any others .They are full of mistaken theological ambiguity and range in tone from the pompous to the comically absurd. I see no depth in them theological or otherwise and they assert untruth about God whatever way you look.at them. Continuing to feature such heretical ideas on the Internet is a limb given to a false body of doctrine and God may well have taken singing away from churches because He actively disapproves of people believing in all this when they sing. Only a few are ready to beg that the offending words go from books and no one rewrites them.
Interesting theory - that the Covid ban on singing in churches was to express God's disapproval at the songs that have been sung!!
So what hymns, one wonders, does said writer think God likes?
Metrical psalms, perhaps; or Wesley and Watts; or perhaps Bach chorales; or "Sacred Songs and Solos"? Obviously anything with "worldly" guitars or drums is out, We need to be told!
So what hymns, one wonders, does said writer think God likes?
Metrical psalms, perhaps; or Wesley and Watts; or perhaps Bach chorales; or "Sacred Songs and Solos"? Obviously anything with "worldly" guitars or drums is out, We need to be told!
The human voice singing only the psalms, of course.
So what hymns, one wonders, does said writer think God likes?
Metrical psalms, perhaps; or Wesley and Watts; or perhaps Bach chorales; or "Sacred Songs and Solos"? Obviously anything with "worldly" guitars or drums is out, We need to be told!
Or referring to another recent thread, Palestrina?
It's a similar profundity of understanding the deep counsels of God to that of someone who 70+ years ago told an acquaintance that God protected the UK from invasion by the Germans in 1940 because this where the Plymouth Brethren were.
So what hymns, one wonders, does said writer think God likes?
Metrical psalms, perhaps; or Wesley and Watts; or perhaps Bach chorales; or "Sacred Songs and Solos"? Obviously anything with "worldly" guitars or drums is out, We need to be told!
The human voice singing only the psalms, of course.
Exactly as written by the very finger of God, in King James English.
Comments
In particular though, I thoroughly enjoyed the Ecclesiastical Psalm and the Ave, Maris Stella.
Also, unusually, the Psalm of the Lucernarium was in tone 1, which is usually reserved for Holy Week. However, it is very lovely.
Even though he's not Welsh.
Beautiful, @Cyprian, thanks for the links. Happy to see you in your new home!
Isn't there something about the Welsh being the lost tribe of Israel or something?
He actually said that sermons were the most important
Hi Telford, welcome back.
Augustine of Hippo is also credited with the saying: “ He who sings well, prays twice”
But what about women?
Shows how much time I have ( as a congenital Roman)for said catechism. I am familiar with the adverb “well” these last 56years since the launch of the Living Parish Hymn Book in Oz
What indeed?😂Don’t judge all Romans by the standards of this lot🙀
Qui is masculine, but can be taken as being any person, male or female - using the feminine quae would mean the statement could only apply to a woman. A convention that we would question today but the Romans wouldn't have.
But well or not well, the real question may be not which Augustine said, but whether he said it at all. (Wikiquote suggests he did not.)
No reason why he should be referring to the lyrics any more than the tune, or the attitude of the singer, is there? As God looks on the heart, it would seem to be more logical that what's going on inside there is more important. Admittedly crap lyrics might make it harder for some people to connect worshipfully. But then so might a crap tune. And a crap attitude definitely!
Naturally, I value some of what the Early Church Fathers said, but I prefer the scriptures that enjoin us to sing psalms and spiritual songs, and to praise God with our voices and various instruments. Such a healthy human thing to do, when done with enjoyment and appreciation.
He kept the Feast Of The Assumption, got up regardless with all the Roaming Carflick readings and things, so the hymns were all on the same theme. Alas, the service wasn't livestreamed (last minute illness of the chap who was going to film it), so it didn't get online, and I haven't myself heard the hymns.
There was a fair congregation present (the past few weeks' attendance having been distinctly sparse), so it was encouraging to hear some good news.
Crown him with many crowns,
Go forth and tell
O for a closer walk with God
Out of my bondage, sorrow and night
Soldiers of Christ arise and out your armour on
I do wonder if churches which use Mission Praise do so, not for the 1970s and 80s “modern” songs, but because it is where some of the items dropped by later denominational hymn books can still be found. I wonder if they would rather have Redemption Songs if enough copies could be sourced? At least this one wasn’t torturing an organist with its repertoire, but used a digital machine.
Just as I am, without one plea
Prayers thanking God that we can come to Him in worship even when no one has anything prepared, when tossed about by an uncertain world we come.
Readings from Ephesians 6:10-20 (armour of God) and John 6: 59-70 (some disciples leave, the Twelve declare Jesus has the words of eternal life and they'll stay)
Reflection/sermon prepared in a few minutes on standing firm in the power of God, maintaining our faith in Christ in face of the forces working against us as the 12 stayed faithful.
Soldiers of Christ! arise and put your armour on
Prayers for a world of uncertainty, where so many have been tossed about by circumstances beyond their control - Afghanistan and Haiti.
Communion hymn Make me a channel of your peace
Closing hymn Abide with me
Benediction: that we abide in God as he abides with us, standing firm in the faith and power of God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I normally spend a long time selecting appropriate hymns. But, the congregation without even knowing what the readings would be go and select good hymns in a few minutes.
Come, now is the time to worship (despite my best efforts it's very hard to get my computer to play this the way I'm used to singing it)
How lovely is thy dwelling place (RETIREMENT)
How sweet the name of Jesus sounds (ST PETER)
Spirit of the living God
Soldiers of Christ arise (DIADEMATA) [Like everyone else]
Our minister was back from hols today and chose one hymn the same as we had two weeks ago when I was last there 'Lord of Creation to you be all praise' to the tune of Slane. We also sang 'And Can it Be' (to Sagina of course) and although the choir are still supposed to be singing unison (hangover from Covid restrictions when we were the only singers allowed), I was disconcerted that the 'mens part' at the end of each verse wasn't being covered by our one man .... so myself and another alto did it ourselves (or a version of it) from the second verse onwards.
We are still singing as a choir from the back of the balcony (up to 8 unmasked choir members allowed.) Rest of congregation can now sing also, but wearing masks.
Matt Redman’s 10 000 reasons/Bless the Lord
O praise the name/I cast my mind to Calvary (Sampson, Ussher and Hastings)
The skies were darkening and moody, and the local birds from the Cam (mostly seagulls) began to swarm overhead to check out the noise. It was quite beautiful and eerie, but vaguely reminiscent of a scene from The Birds.
“Praise to the holiest in the height” (Richmond).
“Standing on the promises”.
“Yield not to temptation”.
“Dear Lord and Father of mankind” (Repton).
“May the mind of Christ, my Saviour” (St Leonard's).
At the 9.15 Communion we sang
Angel voices ever singing
Let us break bread together
We pray thee heavenly Father, during communion
Be thou my vision.
No anthems as several members had been on holiday and missed rehearsal, and the DoM is still in hospital.
Evensong resumed for the first time since March last year. About 10 attended, plus choir of 6.
Ye holy angels bright
Lord Jesus think on me.
Abide with me.
On my return to Our Place a couple of weeks ago the Officiating Person declared that the singing sounded really good from behind the masks and perhaps we should keep them.
I completely forgot to make a note of what we sang yesterday morning and can therefore only remember two:
Jesus Strong and Kind which was a new one on me and "By Grace Alone Somehow I Stand" to finish with.
I took our customary August break, because, frankly enough is enough!
Wife went to Mass yesterday to be greeted by people saying "Where's Alan? Why isn't he playing? It's nonsense that he isn't playing."
Makes me want to tell them to just f*** right off!
As I have my Helpful Hat upon my Head, here is that song:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=qoUeQsPYjRM
I really like this song too, but agree with BT that its not really suitable for congregational use. Thanks for the YouYube link ... worth following for the discussion underneath which includes the following gem
Interesting theory - that the Covid ban on singing in churches was to express God's disapproval at the songs that have been sung!!
Metrical psalms, perhaps; or Wesley and Watts; or perhaps Bach chorales; or "Sacred Songs and Solos"? Obviously anything with "worldly" guitars or drums is out, We need to be told!
The human voice singing only the psalms, of course.
It's a similar profundity of understanding the deep counsels of God to that of someone who 70+ years ago told an acquaintance that God protected the UK from invasion by the Germans in 1940 because this where the Plymouth Brethren were.