Will FEMA get involved?

Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
There is a county in central Texas, where 76% of its voters went for Trump in the last election. In this county, there is a sallow valley in which the Guadeloupe River Flows. A normally tranquil river. Except when it has what amounts to a tropical rain event. These past few days, the river rose 25 feet in less than a day. A current report says 25 people were killed, something like 26 children from a local camp are missing. 850 people rescued.

There obviously was not adequate warning.

Where is the federal government in all of this? Will FEMA get involved?

Is this a result of climate change?

Do you think it might change the way people in that area are voting?

I think it is one of the worst disasters in Texas.

My thoughts and prayers go out to the families of the deceased and the missing.

But, given the recent track record of FEMA under Trump, I doubt they will be much help.

Might as well build another Alligator Alcatraz.

Comments

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited July 5
    From the UK Guardian a few minutes ago:

    Department of Homeland Security (DHS) secretary Kristi Noem said the flooding in Texas is “unprecedented,” adding that the federal government will be providing further resources.

    Noem confirmed that various DHS agencies are actively working in efforts, including the Coast Guard, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).

    She added that the Border Patrol’s tactical unit named BORTAC, a special operations group, is also on the ground assisting.


    My italics.

    Whether or not FEMA will be of much help remains to be seen, surely.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    From the UK Guardian a few minutes ago:

    Department of Homeland Security (DHS) secretary Kristi Noem said the flooding in Texas is “unprecedented,” adding that the federal government will be providing further resources.

    Noem confirmed that various DHS agencies are actively working in efforts, including the Coast Guard, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).

    She added that the Border Patrol’s tactical unit named BORTAC, a special operations group, is also on the ground assisting.


    My italics.

    Whether or not FEMA will be of much help remains to be seen, surely.

    Just a band aide to larger problems. Climate Change, lack of adequate warning systems, etc.

    Just because Noam says the Feds will be coming does not mean it will happen. Heck, South Carolina is still waiting for promised aid from last year's disaster. Even in Washington, there were two small hamlets that never got needed aid during the previous Trump administration--even though the voters in those hamlets nearly all voted for Trump. Trump is known to play favoritism.
  • According to Greg Abbott, prayer is important.

    From the Guardian again:

    “Prayer matters,” Abbott said. Prayers “could have been the reason why water stopped rising”.

    Make of that what you will.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    According to Greg Abbott, prayer is important.

    From the Guardian again:

    “Prayer matters,” Abbott said. Prayers “could have been the reason why water stopped rising”.

    Make of that what you will.


    Reminds me of the story of Chanticleer. the rooster. Every morning, he thought he could cause the sun to come up every morning when he would crow. True enough, he would crow and the sun would come up. Then one day, he overslept. When he finally got up the sun was already up.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    The administration wants to dismantle FEMA. I wouldn't be surprised if going forward states in favor with them get federal help and states not in favor don't.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Regards Abbott saying prayers stopped the rain. Then why does the hill country continue to be under flood watch? As many as 6 million people can be impacted.

    Several videos and photos of the flooding.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    From the UK Guardian a few minutes ago:

    Department of Homeland Security (DHS) secretary Kristi Noem said the flooding in Texas is “unprecedented,” adding that the federal government will be providing further resources.

    Noem confirmed that various DHS agencies are actively working in efforts, including the Coast Guard, Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).

    She added that the Border Patrol’s tactical unit named BORTAC, a special operations group, is also on the ground assisting.


    My italics.

    Whether or not FEMA will be of much help remains to be seen, surely.

    BORTAC sounds so Soviet.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Deal of it is, the Trump administration wants to hand over FEMA responsibilities to individual states. But then something like this happens, and state resources can be quickly overwhelmed. Remember when Katrina hit New Orleans? Could Louisiana have handled it? Not only did Katrina hit New Orleans, but it hit a large portion of the Gulf States from Texas to Alabama, affecting land as much as 100 miles inland. Or how about the Deepwater Horizon blowout? Which state was responsible for that? They are still recovering from that incident.

    The point of FEMA is to bring all the resources of government to bear in the recovery of an area hit by a disaster, be it the hill country in Texas, or the hill country in South Carolina or two small hamlets in Washington State.

    North Carolina is being hit with a hurricane now. Will FEMA respond? Should it depend on the whims of a unstable president?

    Which brings up another issue, NASA is cutting of access to satellite data needed to track hurricanes and other storms.

    And this still does not address the underlying problem of climate change.
  • Does Trump actually believe that climate change is a thing?
    :grimace:
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Does Trump actually believe that climate change is a thing?
    :grimace:

    I suspect he has no firm opinion, but knows that climate change denial appeals to many of his supporters. He also hates wind turbines.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Does Trump actually believe that climate change is a thing?
    :grimace:

    I suspect he has no firm opinion, but knows that climate change denial appeals to many of his supporters. He also hates wind turbines.

    Yeah, if he'd never gone into politics, he'd probably just casually accept that climate-change is real, and would vote for politicians who also believe it's real, though he likely wouldn't be voting based on that issue in particular.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    North Carolina is being hit with a hurricane now.
    No, North Carolina is not being hit with a hurricane now.

    Tropical Storm Chantal made landfall in South Carolina this morning. As it moved toward North Carolina, it fairly quickly weakened to a tropical depression, with maximum sustained winds of around 35 mph. It continues to weaken. It is bringing heavy rain, so flash flooding is a possibility. The main concern at the beach is rip currents.


  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Thank you for the update, Nick.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Camp Mystic has a long history of providing a camping experience for many of the daughters of the elite families of Texas, both Democrat and Republican. Lady Bird Johnson, the wife of Lyndon Johnson, had attended the camp as a girl and continued to attend special functions through the rest of her adult life. Likewise, Laura Bush, wife of George Bush attended the camp as a girl. It can serve up to 750 campers at one time. In my book, that is a very large camp. People would sign their girls up on a waiting list right after their girls were born just so the daughter has a chance of being accepted for the camp. This tragedy will impact many people in government, no matter the party affiliation. So sad for the tragic loss of these girls for the families, the communities they came from, and I dare say the nation. These girls had a lot of potential. Gone.

    There were other camps also involved in the flooding. Can't rule them out. Just that most of the infomation is about Camp Mystic.
  • Another recent snippet from today's UK Guardian live blog:

    Donald Trump declared the deadly flooding in Texas to be a major disaster under the Stafford Act on Sunday.

    “I have authorized Federal relief and recovery assistance in the affected area,” said a letter signed and posted to social media by Trump to Texas’s governor Greg Abbott. “Individual Assistance and Public Assistance will be provided.”

    Trump has designated the Department of Homeland Security’s Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) to coordinate assistance efforts.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    I wonder why many of the affected say there was no adequate warning. Could the reduction of the National Weather Service personnel have played a role? Then too, local officials did not get the word out quickly enough. As the following article indicates, the locals said they had no idea how much rain was coming, but on the other hand, in an area that is known for frequent floods, the local warning systems were not enough. https://www.ksat.com/news/local/2025/07/04/watch-ksat-crews-capture-videos-of-july-4-hill-country-flooding-severe-weather-across-kerr-county/
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    I wonder why many of the affected say there was no adequate warning. Could the reduction of the National Weather Service personnel have played a role?
    I’ve experienced my share of floods caused by rain from hurricanes, tropical storms and the like, including this past year. In my experience with bad floods, the magnitude of the flooding is always unexpected.

    I’m not saying that systems were adequate, just that being surprised and caught off guard by the extent and speed of the flooding is nothing new at all.


  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The number of girls missing from Camp Mystic has decreased. Now, there is 10 girls and one counselor missing.

    The National Weather Service has given out a timeline of its warnings. If gave the first flood warning Thursday morning, but the warning that would have triggered alerts on cell phones was at 1 a.m.

    I have to wonder how many heard their cell phones going off. I know wife and I do not have cell phones on during the night.

    With the continuing rain, the Hill Country has now had 20 inches since 3 July.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    Most people would not turn phones completely off, I would think. Emergency alert systems would override 'Do Not Disturb' and similar settings.
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    It's a rural county where cell service can be spotty. Plus some people got warnings and ignored them - the area is prone to flash floods, so lots of people there have experienced flooding. The NY Times says county officials have talked about putting in a warning system with sirens, but taxpayers didn't want to pay for it. The state hasn't funded many of the flood control projects its own Water Development Board has recommended.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    The timeline of the warnings is here. Apparently, the National Weather Service began to notice a problem developing on Wednesday. They issued a potential for flooding on Thursday morning. A flood warning at about 0100 on Friday Morning followed by triggering phone alerts at ~0400 and 0500. The river surged shortly after 0400, rising 30 ft in just 90 minutes.

    The Hill is reporting two key Weather Service Managment positions were vacant, one of them that would have coordinated flood warnings with local emergency alert systems.

    So, there will be a lot of xplaining to do.

  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    I wonder why many of the affected say there was no adequate warning. Could the reduction of the National Weather Service personnel have played a role? Then too, local officials did not get the word out quickly enough.

    The National Weather Service apparently issued timely warnings. There was apparently some difficulty in having that information distributed, though.
    A former sheriff pushed Kerr County commissioners nearly a decade ago to adopt a more robust flood-warning system, telling government officials how he “spent hours in those helicopters pulling kids out of trees here (in) our summer camps,” according to meeting records.

    Then-Sheriff Rusty Hierholzer was a proponent of outdoor sirens, having responded as a deputy to the 1987 floods that killed 10 teenagers at a camp in nearby Kendall County. He made the comments in 2016, after deadly floods ravaged a different part of Texas the year before.

    “We were trying to think of, what can we do to make sure that never happens here?” Hierholzer, who served as Kerr County sheriff from 2000 to 2020, recalled in an interview Sunday with The Wall Street Journal. “And that’s why we were looking at everything that we could come up with, whether it be sirens, whether it be any other systems that we could.”

    That suggestion, from him and others, was never adopted.

    Officials in Kerr County, where nearly 70 people are dead from floods, and many others are missing, including girls from Camp Mystic, have debated the use of outdoor warning sirens since at least 2016, even as other Texas cities and counties adopted them to sound loud alerts ahead of floods and other natural disasters, according to a review by the Journal. Minutes of their public meetings showed an inability to get state and federal funds has been a delaying factor.

    So some of this seems to be typical government austerity fetishism. On the other hand:
    These outdoor-warning sirens have been installed in other flood-prone Texas counties, including Comal and Kendall, which also sit along the Guadalupe River. Sirens went off in the Kendall County community of Comfort when floodwaters approached there after inundating Kerr County early Friday.

    So it's not like there aren't austerity fetishists in Comal (R+23) and Kendall (R+28) counties, but for whatever reason the decision was made locally to prioritize a flood warning system, unlike Kerr county (R+28).
    Most people would not turn phones completely off, I would think. Emergency alert systems would override 'Do Not Disturb' and similar settings.

    Normally it would, but overuse of the emergency alert system in Texas seems to be a particular problem.
    The Federal Communications Commission was flooded with thousands of complaints after an early morning emergency alert about an injured police officer sparked frustrations across the state last week.

    By Tuesday, the commission received approximately 4,600 consumer complaints about the alert, Will Wiquist, a commission spokesperson said.

    The commission declined to detail the nature of those complaints.

    Early Friday morning, around 4:50 a.m., millions of Texans awoke to a blue alert. 33-year-old Seth Altman was on the run after shooting and injuring a police officer in Hall County- hundreds of miles away from some of the cities that received the alerts.

    Texans across the state vented their frustrations about the early morning wake-up call on social media.

    In a Friday statement, the Texas Department of Public Safety did not immediately address the onslaught of complaints about the alert. The department stated that the alerts “generate tips and leads for the investigating agencies, and therefore giving those agencies the best opportunity to apprehend a dangerous criminal.”

    I can imagine a number of Texas residents taking measures to silence alerts about police activities at the other end of the state after an early morning wake-up like that. The real mistake is using the same system that warns about dangerous floods and tornadoes for this kind of thing.
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