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Remembrance - a different discussion

Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
in Purgatory
Every year we have a discussion about how to best commemorate Remembrance Sunday. I'm not wanting to repeat some of the themes which come up repeatedly, such as "just war" or "is it right to remember when there is so much conflict today" or even "rose-tinted nostalgia".

What I am wondering, however, is how those of us leading will address, skirt round or ignore the issue of "Christian Nationalism" which may be lurking, possibly unconsciously, in some worshippers' thinking. What do Shipmates think?

Comments

  • Sober Preacher's KidSober Preacher's Kid Shipmate
    Secure pictures of the Indian Expeditionary Force.
  • LouiseLouise Epiphanies Host
    You're right to worry about it. I've become increasingly uneasy about poppies for that kind of reason- that some of the people making a big fuss about them are the kind of racist nationalist I don't want to be associated with and who my late father and grandfather who served would have loathed.

    I wonder if remembering the huge diversity of those who served might be something of an antidote?
  • The RogueThe Rogue Shipmate
    I haven't worn a poppy for a long time because of this although I have readily donated to the Royal British legion. It would probably be cheeky of me to make a point of also donating to RNLI this year.

    When the Roguelings were small we had a few holidays camping in France and took them to see some of the memorials which proved very contemplative for us all. One time we were playing on a beach: building sandcastles, trying to dam a stream flowing across the sand and all the other things families do and this was one of the beaches that Allied Forces stormed on D-Day. So we were digging in the spots where soldiers were injured or killed. I see this as a fitting memorial that they died so that we could be normal and I used that example in church one Remembrance Sunday.

    Being normal also means that we can each have our own opinions so if someone wants to go all christian nationalistic that is their right and privilege but it is my right and privilege to think differently and I will say so if someone tries to force their opinions on me.
  • Stercus TauriStercus Tauri Shipmate
    My own feeling is that we are remembering individuals, not nations, when we wear poppies. Some years ago I heard a veteran on the radio saying, "I don't care if we have to give the poppies away so long as people keep them and remember the people who died!" That made a lasting impression on me.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Fair enough and ISWYM, but @Louise is also right in fearing that the poppy - like the Union Jack or the St George's flag - is being used by the far-right 'Christian' nationalists.

    I think I'll donate to the RNLI this year - they deserve it...
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    I feel very ambivalent about it, because as Louise says the whole business of Remembrance has been hijacked by the far right. And what disturbs me most is that the people who make the most fuss about anyone who dares to appear in public without a poppy are the same ones who advocate for ethno-nationalism, ableism and homophobia. They'd have been right at home in the National Socialist Party.

    Lest we forget? Looks like we forgot.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    So ... what is appropriate for our commemorations in church?
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    I would not presume to speak for your church. At ours, we have our regular service with a focus on mourning the dead. We used to have a separate service of remembrance, featuring one of the many choral requiems, but it wasn't well attended so it was discontinued a few years ago.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    Two changes in my town this year.

    A Remembrance exhibition will be held in the Methodist Church focussing on the role played by troops from Hong Kong. We have quite a contingent of people from HK, many of whom belong to the Methodist Church, so it will be well supported.

    On Remembrance Sunday there is to be the usual service in the market place, but the Methodists are not following it with their own service afterwards as they have done in recent years. I am hoping this might mean a return to the long tradition of an ecumenical service in the Parish Church, where the memorials to both wars are actually situated. That joint service ended during the reign of the previous incumbent. The church is now in vacancy.
  • Sober Preacher's KidSober Preacher's Kid Shipmate
    The Royal Canadian Legion may have had a moment in 1960's opposing the adoption the current Canadian flag, but the Legion strives to stay away from partisan politics.

    The poppy has not, at present, assumed any status with the right wing in Canada and doesn't have any of the partisan baggage it seems to have in the UK.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    Our Place tends to do What We Always Do - that is, the two-minute silence at 11am, with the traditional Binyon words, during the intercessions, and the National Anthem at the end of the service.

    A descendant of one of the parish's WW1 victims will lay a wreath on the altar in front of the War Memorial, which forms the reredos in our All Souls' Chapel. No doubt one of the hymns will be O God our help in ages past , and another will be Eternal Father strong to save (appropriate to a parish with a connection to the Royal Navy).

    I don't know what FatherInCharge's homily will be about, of course.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    ETA:

    Referring back to the OP, I'm not sure how Our Place could do things differently IYSWIM, apart from perhaps omitting the National Anthem - given that quite a few people in our present congregation aren't actually British citizens...

  • peasepease Tech Admin
    Stercus Tauri wrote: »
    My own feeling is that we are remembering individuals, not nations, when we wear poppies. Some years ago I heard a veteran on the radio saying, "I don't care if we have to give the poppies away so long as people keep them and remember the people who died!" That made a lasting impression on me.
    I remember, and I gave up on poppies years ago. The poppy is a symbol - it isn't the thing itself. (Remembrance.)

    These days, you also have a choice of white poppies, black poppies and rainbow poppies. (And purple.)
  • Sober Preacher's KidSober Preacher's Kid Shipmate
    My church has Memorial Plaques for fallen members of the congregation from the First and Second World Wars; the Goverment of Canada provided them to every church with fallen parishioners.

    The Cabadian Armed Forces provide am officer and a Cadet (a youth programme) to lay a wreath in front of them. The standard service is an abridged version of the national obe with "In Flanders Fields", two minutes silence and the National and Royal Anthems.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited October 19
    Sober Preacher's Kid wrote: »
    The Royal Canadian Legion may have had a moment in 1960's opposing the adoption the current Canadian flag, but the Legion strives to stay away from partisan politics.

    The poppy has not, at present, assumed any status with the right wing in Canada and doesn't have any of the partisan baggage it seems to have in the UK.

    Well, there WAS Don Cherry in 2019, with his tirade about people who supposedly "come here" because they "love our milk and honey" but refuse to wear a poppy. The support he got on social media sounded quite like what I take to be the standard blimpish line in England.

    But, yeah, had he not said that, poppies likely wouldn't have been an issue that year, at least no more than they are any other year. In Quebec a while back, you did have the issue of politicians wearing poppies with little fleur-de-lises in the centre, which if nothing else seems like a clashing metaphor.
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