Appropriateness for SoF

I am a new member of the ship. I've joined because I am writing a novel in which the narrator is a practising Christian and I wish to increase my knowledge of Christians and faith. My own beliefs are basically atheist, so you see my problem. Having apparently passed the 'no homework rule' my first post seemed to be well-received, see here: https://forums.shipoffools.com/discussion/1349/pending/p1 but I would like to go further and post some extracts from the novel where the Christian element is foremost.

My hope is people would find the extracts entertaining and amusing (that's what they are intended to do) while pointing out my omissions and failures.

My question is: 1) is that an appropriate use of the Ship of Fools and 2) if it is permissible where best should I put the extracts?
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Comments

  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited March 8

    My question is: 1) is that an appropriate use of the Ship of Fools and 2) if it is permissible where best should I put the extracts?

    Just my opinion, but I'd say no. It sounds like you want a blog or Facebook page with comments and interaction with followers.

    We could all here attempt to "market" ourselves and the things we produce to the rest of the shipmates. In general this is considered bad form.

    Again, I'm not management and this is just my opinion as a shipmate.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    edited March 8
    edited
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    mr cheesy wrote: »

    Just my opinion, but I'd say no. It sounds like you want a blog or Facebook page with comments and interaction with followers.

    We could all here attempt to "market" ourselves and the things we produce to the rest of the shipmates. In general this is considered bad form.

    Again, I'm not management and this is just my opinion as a shipmate.

    This wouldn't be marketing. More like R&D. I do have a Facebook Group but that's for help and support between writers most of whom aren't practising Christians. I will understand if it's not considered appropriate.
  • balaambalaam Shipmate
    We are a wide church here. There is no consensus as to what Christians believe or how they behave.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    balaam wrote: »
    We are a wide church here. There is no consensus as to what Christians believe or how they behave.

    I understand that. I'm not looking for a consensus response.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    As an alternative, I could post the extract on my website and then post the link here. There's no intention of marketing as I've nothing yet to sell.
  • I am not an admin or more than a temporary host, but there are Ship guidelines on copyright, so if you
    post some extracts from the novel where the Christian element is foremost.

    You may find that the Ship copyright and your copyright is not in alignment.

    Also - it was mentioned on the Purg thread and @fineline thought we hadn't had an author using the Ship for homework before, but it has happened. One Shipmate who chose to leave soon after the move from Ye Olde Shippe™ did get asked to refrain from her threads discussing books she was writing.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    I am not an admin or more than a temporary host, but there are Ship guidelines on copyright, so if you
    post some extracts from the novel where the Christian element is foremost.

    You may find that the Ship copyright and your copyright is not in alignment.

    Also - it was mentioned on the Purg thread and @fineline thought we hadn't had an author using the Ship for homework before, but it has happened. One Shipmate who chose to leave soon after the move from Ye Olde Shippe™ did get asked to refrain from her threads discussing books she was writing.

    This work will be self-pubbed so copyright isn't an issue. I think the issue I may have is the 'homework rule', or a variant thereof.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    This work will be self-pubbed so copyright isn't an issue.

    You appear to misunderstand the copyright issue.
    I am no longer an active Admin, however you should be aware that one of the things you agreed to when signing up is recognizing that the Ship Of Fools has copyright on text posted on this site. Which by extrapolation should concern you regarding any ideas you discover while interacting here for the purposes of your own publishing.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    RooK wrote: »
    This work will be self-pubbed so copyright isn't an issue.

    You appear to misunderstand the copyright issue.
    I am no longer an active Admin, however you should be aware that one of the things you agreed to when signing up is recognizing that the Ship Of Fools has copyright on text posted on this site. Which by extrapolation should concern you regarding any ideas you discover while interacting here for the purposes of your own publishing.

    Ah. Thank you. I hadn't read the small print. That rules out pasting any of the text here. However, one cannot copyright ideas.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    Well no, I think it is just about understanding the limits of conversation and interaction on this bulletin board.

    If everyone did the things you want to do, it would be really hard to navigate.

    None of the rules (official and unofficial) are here to be obeyed for the sake of it. They've all been shown over the years to be a way to narrow down this bulletin board to become effective person-to-person interaction and not (for example) a fanboy site for a particular author.

    There is nothing wrong with what you are asking, but in my opinion it is beyond the remit of these boards.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Thank you.
    You're welcome. The intent is for your interactions here to be transparently consensual.
    That rules out pasting any of the text here. However, one cannot copyright ideas.
    I defer to your apparent IP law degree, but my collection of patents suggests otherwise. Please be mindful.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited March 8
    RooK wrote: »
    This work will be self-pubbed so copyright isn't an issue.

    You appear to misunderstand the copyright issue.
    I am no longer an active Admin, however you should be aware that one of the things you agreed to when signing up is recognizing that the Ship Of Fools has copyright on text posted on this site. Which by extrapolation should concern you regarding any ideas you discover while interacting here for the purposes of your own publishing.

    Ah. Thank you. I hadn't read the small print. That rules out pasting any of the text here. However, one cannot copyright ideas.

    Colin, the way many/most people (including quite a lot of writers, journalists and other creatives) use these bulletin boards is by introducing topics they're thinking about for general discussion.

    It's generally easier to just start talking about topics rather than explain it is for a book or whatever.

    If it is interesting, nobody minds. Over time lots of thoughts and ideas posted here have cropped up in all sorts of places - that's the deal, we release them into the ether where they may or may not be helpful to someone reading.

    I think the "homework" prohibition is mostly because people don't like to have their "brains picked" in a way that someone else directiy benefits from, particularly financially. That just feels a bit rude.

    But if you don't constantly go on about your writing and your books and instead continue posting in an engaging way on topics, there is unlikely to be a problem.

  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    RooK wrote: »
    Thank you.
    You're welcome. The intent is for your interactions here to be transparently consensual.
    That rules out pasting any of the text here. However, one cannot copyright ideas.
    I defer to your apparent IP law degree, but my collection of patents suggests otherwise. Please be mindful.

    Patents are another matter. If someone comes up with an idea then it's theirs to do with as they please. But if someone says something from which another person gets an idea then it belongs to them. For an example, E.L. James's Fifty Shades of Grey began life as fan-fiction of Stephanie Meyers Twilight novels but James changed it enough for the book to be hers and not Meyers'.

    I am aiming for transparency. I am writing something in which the viewpoint character is a practising Christian and I wish to do a good job of it. I am here to research the novel. Eventually, I wish to publish and sell the work.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    RooK wrote: »
    Thank you.
    You're welcome. The intent is for your interactions here to be transparently consensual.
    That rules out pasting any of the text here. However, one cannot copyright ideas.
    I defer to your apparent IP law degree, but my collection of patents suggests otherwise. Please be mindful.

    Patents are another matter. If someone comes up with an idea then it's theirs to do with as they please. But if someone says something from which another person gets an idea then it belongs to them. For an example, E.L. James's Fifty Shades of Grey began life as fan-fiction of Stephanie Meyers Twilight novels but James changed it enough for the book to be hers and not Meyers'.

    I am aiming for transparency. I am writing something in which the viewpoint character is a practising Christian and I wish to do a good job of it. I am here to research the novel. Eventually, I wish to publish and sell the work.

    Ok, in my experience you could have done that if you hadn't been so transparent about it, but now you have it is kinda hard for the rest of us to pretend we don't know what you are doing.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    Colin, the way many/most people (including quite a lot of writers, journalists and other creatives) use these bulletin boards is by introducing topics they're thinking about for general discussion.

    It's generally easier to just start talking about topics rather than explain it is for a book or whatever.

    If it is interesting, nobody minds. Over time lots of thoughts and ideas posted here have cropped up in all sorts of places - that's the deal, we release them into the ether where they may or may not be helpful to someone reading.

    I think the "homework" prohibition is mostly because people don't like to have their "brains picked" in a way that someone else directiy benefits from, particularly financially. That just feels a bit rude.

    But if you don't constantly go on about your writing and your books and instead continue posting in an engaging way on topics, there is unlikely to be a problem.

    Thank you. That's how I'd like to proceed. Though I'm uncertain how much an atheist's viewpoint is welcome or useful.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    I am aiming for transparency. I am writing something in which the viewpoint character is a practising Christian and I wish to do a good job of it. I am here to research the novel. Eventually, I wish to publish and sell the work.

    Ok, in my experience you could have done that if you hadn't been so transparent about it, but now you have it is kinda hard for the rest of us to pretend we don't know what you are doing.

    Ha! Dammit. I thought honesty was a virtue!
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    edited March 8
    If you're after beta readers, which it sounds like you are, then there may be scope to solicit people from here for that, with all the interaction taking place off-site. I am merely floating the idea (and certainly not volunteering! Sorry, I have deadlines on my deadlines...) rather than stating Ship's policy.

    Though I'm not sure which board that might come under.

    (eta - we have atheists, agnostics, heretics, and apostates here as well as Christian folk of all stripes. You're more than welcome to stick around.)
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    If you're after beta readers, which it sounds like you are, then there may be scope to solicit people from here for that, with all the interaction taking place off-site. I am merely floating the idea (and certainly not volunteering! Sorry, I have deadlines on my deadlines...) rather than stating Ship's policy.

    Though I'm not sure which board that might come under.

    (eta - we have atheists, agnostics, heretics, and apostates here as well as Christian folk of all stripes. You're more than welcome to stick around.)

    Yes, beta readers is the term, though in this instance it would only be for pertinent extracts rather than the whole thing, unless anyone is really up for it.

    I have a WordPress site which could host the extracts, though interaction is clunky on WP. A dedicated Facebook page would be better.

    I have noticed that the ship has a refreshingly sensible Brexit thread so I will stick around.
  • Two Brexit threads, one in Hell and one in Purgatory
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    Two Brexit threads, one in Hell and one in Purgatory

    That would explain it. I noticed that everyone in the thread I looked at seemed to be anti-Brexit. I assume those in the other thread have found Donald Tusk's "special place."
  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    No, the one in Hell is much like the one in Purgatory. Just with more expletives and cosmic horror.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    we have atheists, agnostics, heretics, and apostates here as well as Christian folk of all stripes.

    You make it sound like Pokémon, gotta collect 'em all. God-botherers and rational folks of all kinds.
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    No, the one in Hell is much like the one in Purgatory. Just with more expletives and cosmic horror.
    They live together. The fact that we can post our expletives in Hell means that we can have the rational discussion in Purgatory without letting our anger and frustration wreck it.

    The same people post on both, and by and large they're people who consider Brexit to be one of the most stupid things ever proposed (though, with a range of opinions about what we do now).
  • Because this got posted to the other thread, and is relevant to this one @anoesis posted this in Purgatory:
    anoesis wrote: »
    fineline wrote: »
    In my hostly role, I have enquired in the host board about which board this sort of thread should go in, and if it is the kind of thread we have here. There is a 'no homework' rule about not using the forums to pick people's brains for your homework, but I'm not sure if we've ever had someone wanting to pick our brains for their novel. I am waiting for advice on this.

    We have. I made enquiry, last year, as to whether I, as a non-American, could solicit the experiences of those shipmates who are American, as to what they felt on the day of 9/11, for my novel - and I was firmly told that I could not, unless I was prepared to seek an exemption from Simon himself, as it qualified as homework, and homework is not allowed.

    On purely personal level, I am pretty annoyed, right now. Though obviously not with you, fineline.

    I wasn't actually thinking of @anoesis when I posted above, there was a Heaven thread some time ago, when another author on the Ship was effectively asking for inspiration, which started as a game, but she was asked to desist.
  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited March 9
    In @Colin Smith's OP on the Purg thread, his question was
    Soooo, guys, what's it like to believe in this God person/spirit/entity?

    That to me sounds like a question beyond the scope of the book project, and I think by and large this is how the topic has been discussed.

    There's a difference between having curiosity in a subject other than for the sole purpose of a specific project and wanting to exploit the Ship community for a specific project, and in my experience Shipmates tend to discern the difference quite quickly.

    I don't recall any discussion of @anoesis' request, and I'm not sure it was the subject of a backstage discussion rather than a PM exchange, but I would expect that if we had had such a discussion, the conclusion would have been the same.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »
    In @Colin Smith's OP on the Purg thread, his question was
    Soooo, guys, what's it like to believe in this God person/spirit/entity?

    That to me sounds like a question beyond the scope of the book project, and I think by and large this is how the topic has been discussed.

    There's a difference between having curiosity in a subject other than for the sole purpose of a specific project and wanting to exploit the Ship community for a specific project, and in my experience Shipmates tend to discern the difference quite quickly.

    I don't recall any discussion of @anoesis' request, and I'm not sure it was the subject of a backstage discussion rather than a PM exchange, but I would expect that if we had had such a discussion, the conclusion would have been the same.

    My interest in belief does go beyond that required for what I am writing in much the same way that my interest in many other subjects goes beyond that required for my writing. That said my interest is one of academic and aesthetic enquiry rather than of a spiritually questing nature and I define belief extremely broadly.

    I have a saying, probably not original, that that which doesn't kill you counts as 'research' and if you write, or do anything creatively from the heart, then it's true that all your life flows into the thing you're trying to create to some degree. However, I don't live my entire life with the sole objective of gaining stuff to write about or gaining insights to write something in particular.

    The question of exploitation is troubling. All my experience discussing writing online and offline has been with other writes so the issue of exploitation doesn't come up because everyone in a writer's group is exploiting the others so everyone benefits. There's also a strong element of paying it forward in writing groups. I've also found when I have approached experts in specific fields (a vet, an archaeologist, and a surveyor for the Canadian Geological Survey come to mind) that they have happily shared their knowledge with me so the caution here, and specifically the No Homework Rule, is unsettling.

    I can see a reason for the rule being invented: the prospect of hundreds of students asking questions for their RE homework is horrifying; but following anoesis's comment I can't help feeling it's being over-applied. Life, whether you are engaged in an overtly creative endeavour or not, is a matter of mutual exploitation in which everyone benefits. That's how social animals, of which humans are one, get along together.

    The most useful comment was Mr Cheesy's a bit further up this thread: But if you don't constantly go on about your writing and your books and instead continue posting in an engaging way on topics, there is unlikely to be a problem.

    Or as I would put it: if I want to dig in your potato patch I'd better help you plant some corn.

  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    No, the one in Hell is much like the one in Purgatory. Just with more expletives and cosmic horror.

    This place really needs a 'like' button.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    No, the one in Hell is much like the one in Purgatory. Just with more expletives and cosmic horror.

    This place really needs a 'like' button.

    Now that is a perennial subject here. And there will never be one.

    This isn’t a democracy, it’s a benign dictatorship. We can shout for changes but they won’t happen if the Admins don’t want them. :)



  • I can see a reason for the [No Homework] rule being invented: the prospect of hundreds of students asking questions for their RE homework is horrifying; but following anoesis's comment I can't help feeling it's being over-applied.
    Part of the reasoning behind the rule is in relation to students seeking specific answers to homework questions. But, that's just a part of it.

    Fundamentally, the no homework rule exists because these are discussion forums. If you come here seeking answers to specific questions (whether for actual homework, to gain a specific insight for a character in a book you're writing, to find the right hymn for a service etc) then once that's answered it rather ends the discussion, or at least your involvement in the discussion. If it's a subject in which you are interested, whether from a more academic or more spiritual direction makes no real difference, then that means that you'll continue to be involved in the discussion.

    These being discussion boards is also why we we don't like 'like' buttons. That someone likes something isn't interesting, why they like something carries the discussion forward.

  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited March 9
    The question of exploitation is troubling. All my experience discussing writing online and offline has been with other writes so the issue of exploitation doesn't come up because everyone in a writer's group is exploiting the others so everyone benefits. There's also a strong element of paying it forward in writing groups.

    The aim of a writers' discussion group is presumably to discuss writing, and people sign up on that basis and with that common declared interest.

    The Ship of Fools discussion boards have no such special-interest aim in mind. We just do discussion within the bounds of the Ten Commandments and the Guidelines. Part of the job of the Crew is to make sure the common interest thrives. What we don't appreciate is people turning up and assuming they can use the resulting community of users and interests solely for their own purposes, because that is not in our common interest.

    To use your analogy, you appear to be wanting to dig in the common potato patch here before doing any planting at all. Homework threads are just one expression of that misunderstanding.

    [cross-posted with @Alan Cresswell ]
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    Eutychus wrote: »

    The aim of a writers' discussion group is presumably to discuss writing, and people sign up on that basis and with that common declared interest.

    The Ship of Fools discussion boards have no such special-interest aim in mind. We just do discussion within the bounds of the Ten Commandments and the Guidelines. Part of the job of the Crew is to make sure the common interest thrives. What we don't appreciate is people turning up and assuming they can use the resulting community of users and interests solely for their own purposes, because that is not in our common interest.

    To use your analogy, you appear to be wanting to dig in the common potato patch here before doing any planting at all. Homework threads are just one expression of that misunderstanding.

    [cross-posted with @Alan Cresswell ]

    I was attempting to describe my misunderstanding of what the SoF is. I hadn't contributed because I believed SoF was solely a Christian forum and as such I didn't think I had anything to contribute. That belief was wrong and I think I do have something to contribute. In fact I have collated a few pieces that might be useful as blog material here.

    I would disagree that the SoF has no such "special-interest aim in mind." Christians and writers are just different groups of people, albeit with some overlap and perhaps different aims.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited March 9

    I can see a reason for the rule being invented: the prospect of hundreds of students asking questions for their RE homework is horrifying; but following anoesis's comment I can't help feeling it's being over-applied. Life, whether you are engaged in an overtly creative endeavour or not, is a matter of mutual exploitation in which everyone benefits. That's how social animals, of which humans are one, get along together.

    [My emphasis]

    Friend, I think the thing you seem to have forgotten is that you have been here five minutes and some of the rest of us have been here for many years.

    Everyone has been very polite and accommodating thus far, but it is starting to sound like you want us to adopt special rules for you.

    It doesn't work like that.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    I can see a reason for the [No Homework] rule being invented: the prospect of hundreds of students asking questions for their RE homework is horrifying; but following anoesis's comment I can't help feeling it's being over-applied.
    Part of the reasoning behind the rule is in relation to students seeking specific answers to homework questions. But, that's just a part of it.

    Fundamentally, the no homework rule exists because these are discussion forums. If you come here seeking answers to specific questions (whether for actual homework, to gain a specific insight for a character in a book you're writing, to find the right hymn for a service etc) then once that's answered it rather ends the discussion, or at least your involvement in the discussion. If it's a subject in which you are interested, whether from a more academic or more spiritual direction makes no real difference, then that means that you'll continue to be involved in the discussion.

    These being discussion boards is also why we we don't like 'like' buttons. That someone likes something isn't interesting, why they like something carries the discussion forward.

    As I mentioned above, I had misunderstood what the SoF was. I assumed it was a resource for Christians rather than solely a discussion forum. I admit to having little appetite for open-ended discussion.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    mr cheesy wrote: »

    Friend, I think the thing you seem to have forgotten is that you have been here five minutes and some of the rest of us have been here for many years.

    Everyone has been very polite and accommodating this far, but it is starting to sound like you want us to adopt special rules for you.

    It doesn't work like that.

    Not special rules for me. I'm just finding this place very odd compared to my usual online places (mainly Facebook/Facebook groups) and am trying to understand it and show why I am confused.

  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    I can see a reason for the [No Homework] rule being invented: the prospect of hundreds of students asking questions for their RE homework is horrifying; but following anoesis's comment I can't help feeling it's being over-applied.
    Part of the reasoning behind the rule is in relation to students seeking specific answers to homework questions. But, that's just a part of it.

    Fundamentally, the no homework rule exists because these are discussion forums. If you come here seeking answers to specific questions (whether for actual homework, to gain a specific insight for a character in a book you're writing, to find the right hymn for a service etc) then once that's answered it rather ends the discussion, or at least your involvement in the discussion. If it's a subject in which you are interested, whether from a more academic or more spiritual direction makes no real difference, then that means that you'll continue to be involved in the discussion.

    These being discussion boards is also why we we don't like 'like' buttons. That someone likes something isn't interesting, why they like something carries the discussion forward.

    As I mentioned above, I had misunderstood what the SoF was. I assumed it was a resource for Christians rather than solely a discussion forum. I admit to having little appetite for open-ended discussion.

    Honestly, maybe you need to go somewhere else.

    Is there a Subreddit you can go and be a part of? I'm not a writer but there seems to be many communities there for mutual interest.

    Because, in essence, open discussion is basically what this forum is about.
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    edited March 9
    mr cheesy wrote: »

    Friend, I think the thing you seem to have forgotten is that you have been here five minutes and some of the rest of us have been here for many years.

    Everyone has been very polite and accommodating this far, but it is starting to sound like you want us to adopt special rules for you.

    It doesn't work like that.

    Not special rules for me. I'm just finding this place very odd compared to my usual online places (mainly Facebook/Facebook groups) and am trying to understand it and show why I am confused.

    Well that's fair. But you are showing quite a lot of ignorance and a lack of reading in these points.

    It might be that we are expressing things badly*, but there shouldn't be any doubt that this is a discussion forum.

    *Which I doubt tbh. The rules here are deliberately obvious in the main.
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    mr cheesy wrote: »
    Honestly, maybe you need to go somewhere else.

    Is there a Subreddit you can go and be a part of? I'm not a writer but there seems to be many communities there for mutual interest.

    Because, in essence, open discussion is basically what this forum is about.

    I am starting to wonder that myself. It's not open discussion I have issue with: it's open-ended discussion. I am quite objective oriented.
  • BoogieBoogie Shipmate
    mr cheesy wrote: »

    Friend, I think the thing you seem to have forgotten is that you have been here five minutes and some of the rest of us have been here for many years.

    Everyone has been very polite and accommodating this far, but it is starting to sound like you want us to adopt special rules for you.

    It doesn't work like that.

    Not special rules for me. I'm just finding this place very odd compared to my usual online places (mainly Facebook/Facebook groups) and am trying to understand it and show why I am confused.

    We predate Facebook by six years and, yes, we are very different from other social media outlets. I don’t think ‘odd’ is the word. But we are certainly different.

    I do find there is something for everyone here ‘tho. I’m very poor at discussion and I’m neither intellectual nor spiritual. But I’ve been visiting every day since 2001. 🧐😵

  • Doc TorDoc Tor Hell Host
    We like to think (we're probably wrong, but the Ship has survived, or rather endured, over many years) that we bring something different to the interwebs. That we are still here, a linear, text-based discussion forum, in the age of memes, likes and short attention spans, is testament that even if we haven't got it 'right', there's at least a place for us in the ecosystem.

    We don't have member ratings. We don't have likes. We don't order posts by most popular. We are moderated. We are a community (inexplicably). We have few rules that we try and nudge first, and enforce later, but they do seem to work. We try to be flexible (and Styx is absolutely the place to query the rules).

    Yes, many of us have a faith. Some of us had one once. Some of us might do. Some of us definitely don't.

    The 'no homework' rule has been arrived at through bitter experience, and granted that you've been very honest about your initial reasons for coming here to ask your questions: it has been a problem in the past, and hosts are quite hot on squashing those (you can often tell when it's coming up to exam time in schools and colleges). Perhaps in hindsight, had you been forewarned, you could have phrased your OP in such a way as to not show your hand, even though that's a bit deceptive.

    Alan and Eutychus are Admins, and they get to say (in consultation with their fellows) what's permissible. It's them you need to explain and convince.

    (probably x-posted with Uncle Tom Cobley and all)
  • Colin SmithColin Smith Shipmate
    mr cheesy wrote: »

    Well that's fair. But you are showing quite a lot of ignorance and a lack of reading in these points.

    It might be that we are expressing things badly*, but there shouldn't be any doubt that this is a discussion forum.

    *Which I doubt tbh. The rules here are deliberately obvious in the main.

    Thing is, I've never been part of a group that is solely for discussion. Hence why I'm finding it strange.
  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    edited March 9
    [ HOSTING ]

    @mr cheesy, you are over-extending your authority with your assertions on this thread. Indeed, the Crew often clash with your interpretations of how things should be, so you are being quite unhelpful in this circumstance. Respectfully, please fuck off.

    [ /HOSTING ]
  • EutychusEutychus Admin
    edited March 9
    I think I do have something to contribute.
    Yes, you could well have something to contribute to the discussion.
    In fact I have collated a few pieces that might be useful as blog material here.
    Err, that's not discussion. Blog material rates somewhere below homework threads in our collective mind. Indeed, if people post material like that, they will not infrequently be told (in Hell) to get a blog.

    Discussion implies that you might be sharpened as well as sharpening others.
    I would disagree that the SoF has no such "special-interest aim in mind." Christians and writers are just different groups of people, albeit with some overlap and perhaps different aims.
    I can't wait to see what @RooK, for instance, has to say about that...
  • mr cheesymr cheesy Shipmate
    Ok fair dos.
  • I admit to having little appetite for open-ended discussion.
    Conversely, many of us have little appetite for any other sort of discussion. We don't consider it possible to close a discussion because someone has "won" or because someone has posted the "right answer". If the aim of discussion is to share thoughts, to question (your own and other's) views, to learn from each other, to grow together as a community as we share with each other ... well, in that case the only realistic option is for discussion to be open-ended.

  • RooKRooK Admin Emeritus
    Eutychus wrote: »
    I would disagree that the SoF has no such "special-interest aim in mind." Christians and writers are just different groups of people, albeit with some overlap and perhaps different aims.
    I can't wait to see what @RooK, for instance, has to say about that...

    Heh. I do recall, near the turn of the millennium, being annoyed by the realization that the christians were just like regular people. Some of them were even smart, and had interesting ideas... despite me being essentially anti-religious...

    And that's how I got sucked in. IT'S A TRAP!
    Run away, @Colin Smith - shuffle off with your pipe, cardigan with elbow patches, and carpet slippers as fast as you can. While you still can.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    If it's not open-ended, is it discussion at all? It can be debate, or question-answering (e.g. Quora, which you might want to look at, @Colin Smith), or fluffy sharing, or negotiation, or collective search for agreement and resolution, and all of those things have their place. But they're not discussion.
  • RossweisseRossweisse Shipmate, Hell Host
    This place really needs a 'like' button.
    No, it doesn't! (Sensitive subject around here...)


  • Eutychus wrote: »
    I think I do have something to contribute.
    Yes, you could well have something to contribute to the discussion.
    In fact I have collated a few pieces that might be useful as blog material here.
    Err, that's not discussion. Blog material rates somewhere below homework threads in our collective mind. Indeed, if people post material like that, they will not infrequently be told (in Hell) to get a blog.

    I realise blog material is not contributing to discussion but there is a blog section on the SoF. Whether recent members can post on it I've no idea.
  • RooK wrote: »
    And that's how I got sucked in. IT'S A TRAP!
    Run away, @Colin Smith - shuffle off with your pipe, cardigan with elbow patches, and carpet slippers as fast as you can. While you still can.

    But.... I smell cheese.

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