Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

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  • In other times (e.g., August 9, 1974 most notably) someone* would -- and did -- tap the POTUS on the shoulder and tell him to resign and save himself and the country the pain of an impeachment.

    *Those "someones" were all Republicans -- two Senators and one member of the House. (And I'm proud to say, Senator Barry Goldwater and Representative John Rhodes were both from Arizona, though I didn't live here at the time.)
  • Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    In other times (e.g., August 9, 1974 most notably) someone* would -- and did -- tap the POTUS on the shoulder and tell him to resign and save himself and the country the pain of an impeachment.

    *Those "someones" were all Republicans -- two Senators and one member of the House. (And I'm proud to say, Senator Barry Goldwater and Representative John Rhodes were both from Arizona, though I didn't live here at the time.)

    It should be noted that the primary motivation of these someones was not to save either Nixon or the country but to save themselves from having to take a vote on Nixon's impeachment or trial.
  • And it looks like Giuliani Partners, Rudolf Giuliani's consulting firm, just received a subpœna from federal prosecutors. Possible charges being investigated include obstruction of justice, money laundering, conspiracy to defraud the U.S., making false statements to federal investigators, failure to register as a foreign agent, hiding foreign campaign donations, straw man campaign donations, mail fraud, and wire fraud. Those last five sound a lot like the charges from the Parnas and Fruman indictments.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    mail fraud.

    This one always reminds me of The Firm.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    mail fraud.

    This one always reminds me of The Firm.

    I assume you mean the book or the movie, not the exercise videos.
  • The whole mess sometimes remind me of "The Pelican Brief", one of my favorite films.

    And also "Arlington Road"--which is very well done AND extremely disturbing. NOT one of my favorite films, but it gets some points across.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Eutychus wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    mail fraud.

    This one always reminds me of The Firm.

    I assume you mean the book or the movie, not the exercise videos.

    [killing me emote]
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    After weeks of complaining he has not been able to defend himself, T has decided not to allow his lawyers to participate in the Judiciary Committee hearings. Is that because there is no defense?

    And, finally, after three years of silence, Lisa Page has decided to speak out.
  • For those who like long government documents in PDF format (and who doesn't like long government documents in PDF format?) the House Intelligence Committee's impeachment report* is now available for download [PDF]. It is exactly 300 pages long. The executive summary is only 22 pages long (pp. 12-33) and the key findings of fact fit on 4 pages (pp. 34-37).


    * The full title is THE TRUMP-UKRAINE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY REPORT: Report of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Pursuant to H. Res. 660 in Consultation with the House Committee on Oversight and Reform and the House Committee on Foreign Affairs.
  • Some interesting bedtime reading.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Some interesting bedtime reading.

    But it might give you nightmares.
  • I reckon my podcast will have it up soon if you don't feel like reading. They do straight reads of docs, no commentary. The guy's name is Dan Williams and the podcast is Government Unfiltered. There's alot of stuff relating to impeachment up there, but the Report isn't there yet. I reckon Dan has a day job.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    I listened to part of the impeachment hearings as I drove in to work today. The Republicans are doing everything they can to throw the proceedings off. But when the Democrats control the Committee 24-17, it is a little hard to do it.
  • But when the Republicans control the Senate 53-45-2, it is a little hard have any hope of ousting Trump.
    :angry:
  • Does "2" in those Senate stats refer to senators who are serving as independents?

    Thx.
  • Doing the right thing has nothing to do with politricks apparently.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    After weeks of complaining he has not been able to defend himself, T has decided not to allow his lawyers to participate in the Judiciary Committee hearings. Is that because there is no defense?

    And, finally, after three years of silence, Lisa Page has decided to speak out.

    Because I are stupid I found the clip on youtube of this. How low can he go. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AigemYsHgm8
    Going full press Mussolini.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Does "2" in those Senate stats refer to senators who are serving as independents?

    Thx.

    Yes, sorry.
  • Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    But when the Republicans control the Senate 53-45-2, it is a little hard have any hope of ousting Trump.
    :angry:

    I think it was Romney who said if there were a secret ballot in the Senate some Republicans would vote to convict.
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Does "2" in those Senate stats refer to senators who are serving as independents?

    Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine are independents but they caucus with the Democrats for the purposes of determining majority/minority status.
  • Thx. Figured Bernie was one. Can they choose which party to caucus with? Could they go with the Republicans?
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Thx. Figured Bernie was one. Can they choose which party to caucus with? Could they go with the Republicans?

    Any Senator or Representative can caucus with whoever they want, even if they were elected as a member of a specific party. Senator Jim Jeffords of Vermont switched from being a Republican to being an independent caucusing with the Democrats in 2001, switching the Senate from Republican control to Democratic.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    An example of how 45 is becoming further unhinged.

    There are times when I watch some of the clips I see Hitler in his gestures and in the way his loyalists react to him. (Notice, in the background, I see no non-white people and more than a few skin heads.)
  • Is there a caucus race at all?
  • Hypothetical question:

    Since we have a de facto two-party system, what would happen if everyone who voted for their members of Congress *all* chose from the same party? So that every member of Congress was of the same party?

    Putting aside the resulting great fuss and worries about meddling, is there anything in the Constitution that would stop that?

    Unlikely in the extreme, I know.

    Thx.
  • Gramps--

    Thx for the link. I'd heard a bit about this.

    --I think that, on some level, he's trying to recreate the world of his youth, or thereabouts. Strong-man leaders; a loyalty cult; "Othering" people, and making them scapegoats and targets, etc. I don't know if That Austrian Guy ever proclaimed himself God, or sent by God; but T sure has. I wonder if he actually believes it?

    --I think a person has to either be totally oblivious or a special kind of thoughtless to insult people who are responsible for his protection and that of his followers.

    --I also think that, on some level, he's using his words and actions to shout "Stop me before I president again!".

    --If he watches the new TV drama "Evil", I wonder who he roots for?

    --The only way I can see this whole mess ending relatively well is if Trump takes his toys and goes home--resigns. I doubt that, if found guilty by the Senate, he'd go quietly.

    --If T were to resign via tweet, would it count?
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    He is becoming more and more extreme at these rallies. And the more outrageous his remarks and lies. the louder the cheers. He's a cult leader with a cult following.
  • Gramps--

    Thx for the link. I'd heard a bit about this.
    by Golden Key

    What was worse was some of the interviews of the supporters. This one supporter was really scary. There are more videos like this as well.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Well, that scary supporter is right about the fact that 45 is not going to be removed. He's wrong, though, about the reasons why. His firearm and threat of violence are completely irrelevant to the issue. Trump has the Senate in his pocket.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    Well, that scary supporter is right about the fact that 45 is not going to be removed. He's wrong, though, about the reasons why. His firearm and threat of violence are completely irrelevant to the issue. Trump has the Senate in his pocket.

    I agree, the Senate will not vote to convict. But we will see the same scenario be repeated if the man with the small hands does not get re-elected. These same people will be threatening to take it to the streets should he be voted out.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    How America lost its mind.

    Pretty fair argument, I think.
  • -- Right-wing personality Mark Levin was at the White House for Trump's signing of an executive order targeting anti-Semitism. He referred to Trump as "the first Jewish President of the United States..."

    Where is the throwing up emoji when you need it.

    The problem with the executive order that Trump signed is that it also bans any criticism of the state of Israel. The state of Israel should be a separate issue IMHO.

  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    How America lost its mind.

    Pretty fair argument, I think.

    Barnabas, that leads to an article about the lack of news coverage. I note that PBS Newshour leads with impeachment almost daily. I was expecting an article about education or conspiracy theories or misinformation. Is it the right link?
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    One of those generic links, Simon, giving the top of a newsfeed. I'll try to get another one!
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Can't find the original article but it was about this book.

    How America lost its mind.
  • It looks interesting, that book. I might put it on my birthday list. I vacillate wildly between thinking that only a massive disaster of WW2 or worse proportions is going to stop this descent into madness, and hoping against hope that the Democrats prevail and at least most Americans will no longer be under the sway of the self aware conspiracy peddlers on Fox News.

    AND YET, some of the allegations made by Trump against the FBI concerning the abuse of the FISA warrants has turned out to have enough substance to vindicate his objection in the eyes of many. That steers me in the direction of my doona.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    "doona?"
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    Duvet. Simon wants to pull it over his head, make the world go away for a little while. Can't say I blame him.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Ah. Thanks, Barnabas!
  • I thought "doona" might be a variation on "dunney"--a toilet or bathroom, I think.
    ;)
  • Simon ToadSimon Toad Shipmate
    edited December 2019
    I've decided instead to become obsessively interested in Scots independence. I've been listening to The Corries, and have discovered that Jacobite rebel songs are inclusive of all British peoples, asking for support across Britain for Bonnie Prince Charlie. Franz, Duke of Bavaria, is the current Stewart pretender, and a man I think we can all get behind.

    I really wish I had stuck with the pipes in school.
  • Elsewhere I posted that Time magazine named Greta Thunberg as there person of the year.

    45 got all pissy about it.

    Now he is saying he turned down the nomination.

    Ya, sure.

  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Time has denied the claim.
  • Trump must work on his Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Donald, Chill!
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Well said, Pigwidgeon! :mrgreen:
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Trump must work on his Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Donald, Chill!

    Part 1, great. Part 2, there's a problem. Going to a movie with a friend, however, would require, er, procuring a friend. Oh, where is Michael Cohen when you need him?

  • Simps. He and Howard Stern (friend and talk-radio shock-jock) could go see "Home Alone 2", in which T has a cameo role.
    ;)
  • Ohher wrote: »
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Trump must work on his Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Donald, Chill!

    Part 1, great. Part 2, there's a problem. Going to a movie with a friend, however, would require, er, procuring a friend. Oh, where is Michael Cohen when you need him?

    But Giuliani is his friend. He's doing all that Ukraine stuff because he sincerely loves the President.
  • Simon Toad wrote: »
    Ohher wrote: »
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Trump must work on his Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Donald, Chill!

    Part 1, great. Part 2, there's a problem. Going to a movie with a friend, however, would require, er, procuring a friend. Oh, where is Michael Cohen when you need him?

    But Giuliani is his friend. He's doing all that Ukraine stuff because he sincerely loves the President.

    Maybe they can make a movie together so both of them can watch it.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Simon Toad wrote: »
    Ohher wrote: »
    Pigwidgeon wrote: »
    Trump must work on his Anger Management problem, then go to a good old fashioned movie with a friend! Chill Donald, Chill!

    Part 1, great. Part 2, there's a problem. Going to a movie with a friend, however, would require, er, procuring a friend. Oh, where is Michael Cohen when you need him?

    But Giuliani is his friend. He's doing all that Ukraine stuff because he sincerely loves the President.

    Maybe they can make a movie together so both of them can watch it.

    I understand some prisons have movie theatres.
    :wink:

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