Star Trek Discovery - is it bad like an STD or is it good?

I've watched Star Trek since forever. I watch re-runs at various times, dream at times of being Captain Picard, or a non-dead "red shirt" on the original series. My order of liking are Next Gen, DS9, Voyager, Enterprise. But I cannot even include Discovery on the list. This current season is bad. The others were borderline.

Please use spoiler tags when needed!

Things I dislike:
  1. Too much heroic music and smiley happy 'aren't we good' scenes.
  2. Too much touchy emotional stuff. Star Fleet is quasi-military. Loving each other's hair? really?
  3. the spore drive - riding around on space muchrooms connected to a crew member? really?
  4. lack of continuity. This is supposed to be before the original captain Kirk series, the technology exceeds it.
  5. The Klingons are awful They don't look like any of the other Klingons in any other series.

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Comments

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host, Epiphanies Host
    I love it! But then I'm a Star Trek sucker. I'm enjoying the time jump (Series 3) very much.
  • I'm enjoying it. The central idea is interesting as are the main characters. It can be a bit too soppy for my taste, but hey ho.

    Of the new batch, Picard is my favourite - apart from the one episode which got fast-forwarded quite a bit.

    It's also annoying that despite it being an international franchise, there's no attempt to make the new cartoon available outside the US.
  • The cartoon series is available in Canada, first on CTV's SciFi channel, and then it streams on Crave. It can be grey-viewed elsewhere.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    edited November 2020
    I'm enjoying Discovery! Daughter-Unit likes it, too! We especially like this season's third episode.

    In spite of being a jedi, I love Star Trek! Picard is my favorite captain/admiral. TNG was such a thrill when it first showed! D-U was just a couple of months old and that was...wow...a few years ago!

    [edited because I have dodo brains!!!]
  • I'm with No Prophet on this. I loved most of the series in this order:

    DS9
    TNG
    Enterprise
    Voyager
    TOS

    I watched the first two seasons of Discovery, but I can't bring myself to watch the third. I probably will at some point. The universe is about to be destroyed, but instead of getting on and rescuing it the crew has to listen to some tedious heroic speech by one or other of the characters. This happens time and time again. We did a fair bit of fast forwarding.

    There's also a new "Picard" series which I thought was going to be a bit pathetic but was actually quite OK. Picard was always more of a cerebral captain than a macho cowboy figure like Kirk, so he ages quite well.
  • I agree with the Picard series @Jonah the Whale, hopefully they continue to make it: (not a real spoiler) The butterfly / flower spaceship things were my only read quibble.

    Probably my greatest issue with Discovery is that it isn't true to the general direction of ST, of a future where complex problems will be solved or at least reasonably wrestled with, plus some good adventures which, even if pseudo-scientific in basis, had at least some believably amid the technobabble. I confess to having a set of Next Gen and DS9 action figures*, a TOS Enterprise ship Christmas Tree ornament (it plays the theme), and a large mock-up framed picture of the Enterprise D with all sorts of technological explanation. It was a joint project of NASA and the Jet Propulsion Lab.

    *ST action figures: after some decades, they are now expected in our little Christmas Nativity scene. Who says there weren't Klingons at Jesus' birth?
  • Pangolin GuerrePangolin Guerre Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    @NOprophet_NØprofit I agree with #2 and 4. I find the music intrusive rather than accentuating. I, too, have been thrown by the tech level. Spore drive makes dilithium crystals seem like a ModelT's engine. And the whole Red Angel thing is bizarre. Time travel pre-Kirk era? Un-unh. My over-riding problem is that I'm just not digging Michael, so that 's a major hurdle. Yeahyeahyeah... tortured soul. Who isn't? That said, having caught up, I'm starting S3 in a day or two.
  • I have increasingly enjoyed Discovery, the third season being the most enjoyable so far. Ignoring the spore drive, a McGuffin of galactic size, it has become a 'traditional' Star Trek with everything being new to the crew. The 'marvellous hair' stuff is no worse than a counsellor sat next to the Captain on every trip, I think.

    Picard is my favourite but that is based on the character of Jean-Luc, because some of the storylines weren't fantastic. I did like the La Serena crew and the return of Seven, but I thought the Big Bad was a pretty weak enemy.
  • I've realised increasingly that I don't like many of the long story arcs in sci-fi. I liked the Story In An Episode approach of ToS and NG; Voyager of course had one but it was subsidiary and background to the episode storyline. It seemed with Enterprise and Discovery that too much of the script was about the long story arcs and not enough about the immediate.

    And the magic mushrooms were just too much.

    Meh; maybe just me. I much prefer the short story form to novels as well.
  • This is interesting. I watched part of the first episode. That's all. It just didn't grab me. I am now satisfied that I was OK to feel that. Don't have access to Picard, sadly.
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    I got a crash course in Discovery when I went round to a friend's house, watched the first episode, and then binged the rest of the season over a couple of days. I've been enjoying it very much, and I like Saru, and Michael, as characters. Anson Mount is also very good as Captain Pike.
  • Regarding the long story arcs, rather than 'one and done', a friend of mine was complaining about this, and I observed that series have, especially in the age of VOD, become more novelistic in structure. I actually like it, as I find that it allows for deeper character development and more complex narrative. It's interesting that it started long ago with Deadwood, The Sopranos, etc., and almost all the content that we're currently viewing was produced before Covid was a thing, but is a structure especially suited to our Covid-lockdown viewing habits. It will be interesting, once we hit the dearth of new content, to see what our habits will be.
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    I like Discovery. There are some stylistic things about it that irritate me that I think are just typical of sci-fi TV in this era (I find the new Doctor Who has some of them too) -- the show being "dark" not metaphorically but literally with a lot of scenes that leave me squinting to make out what's happening, and the overuse of lens flare in a lot of scenes. But as I've gotten to know the characters they are really growing on me as an ensemble. I've loved watching Saru's development as a character into the 3rd season; Tilly is just a constant joy to me whenever she's on screen; I love Anthony Rapp in everything so Stamets is a delight to me, and his bitchy relationship with the character Tig Notaro plays (who I cannot think of by her character name because Tig Notaro already sounds like the name of a Star Trek character) is just so much fun. And then of course Phillipa Georgiou ... I don't know how much to say here without being too spoilery for people who are still in earlier seasons but there are just a lot of great characters in this series and for me they are really starting to come together as a crew.

    I also really loved the introduction of Captain Pike, Young Spock, and even the glimpses of Number One in Season 2 -- love that there is going to be a spinoff series exploring the original Enterprise. I do agree that there's a problem with setting a series filmed in the 2020s, in the pre-TOS era, because obviously the designers want to make all the cool new tech gadgets they can now create, but it looks far too advanced for the Kirk/Spock era, much less for a few years before that.

    One thing I HATED about this series were the Klingons. I don't mind that they redesign the look of aliens a bit in every series, but this iteration of the Klingons was awful -- didn't allow the actors ANY ability to move their faces to express emotion, and all the Klingon dialect being their screamy subtitled language just made it so hard to get into any scene they were in. At least it was appropriate that it was subtitled in all caps because they all sounded like people yelling at you on the internet.

    Also, even though I know there's suspension of disbelief with the era of the technology and the redesign of aliens, the fact that that TOS-era Klingons were almost fully human-looking makes it even more ridiculous that this particular redesign of their look would be for a series set just a few years before TOS. I've enjoyed Discovery proportionally more, the fewer Klingons are in it.

  • @Trudy - The dark cinematography is definitely a problem. If you recall the short lived Class, a potentially very good series, it had a very dark lighting, and the audio was very difficult for me to follow - so much so that by E4 I just gave up. I had a headache by the end of every episode.

    For Discovery, I'm liking Pike, Georgiou, Stamets (full disclosure, always a Rapp fan - I can't explain it, but there it is), but most especially Saru - an absolutely fascinating character.
  • Mostly I like Discovery, but this last episode was just annoying. The Vulcan court of inquiry made no sense at all--if there was any science or logic involved it sure went over my head. But I like the characters and the moral complexity they bring to a series whose weakness, to my mind, has always been a propensity for wrapping up moral dilemmas in overly neat packages by the end of the hour.

    I like Picard better though.
  • @Timothy the Obscure I think that's because Picard has had one story arc over however many episodes, so no need to wrap up in an hour, whereas Discovery has been all over the galaxy, a bit messy. I never got the Red Angel business, which I found a bewildering distraction rather than an interesting idea.
  • Penny S wrote: »
    This is interesting. I watched part of the first episode. That's all. It just didn't grab me. I am now satisfied that I was OK to feel that. Don't have access to Picard, sadly.

    Good news Penny S: Yes you do! It's on the Horror Channel* weekdays at 7pm repeated next weekday morning at 9am and with five ep catch-up run at the weekend. Enjoy!

    *On Freeview ch 68 and others: Freesat (I'm sure), Virgin, satellite
  • Wow, thanks. That'll be better than Emmerdale while waiting for Corrie - I know, there'll be an overlap, but that can be dealt with - ITV Hub for part 1, and then the one on air.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Mostly I like Discovery, but this last episode was just annoying. The Vulcan court of inquiry made no sense at all--if there was any science or logic involved it sure went over my head. But I like the characters and the moral complexity they bring to a series whose weakness, to my mind, has always been a propensity for wrapping up moral dilemmas in overly neat packages by the end of the hour.

    I like Picard better though.

    Agree entirely about this last episode. And I never understood why Michael Burnham's mom is a member of a Romulan sect.

    I liked Picard a lot, though I thought the end was a bit of a mess. I love Lower Decks!
  • Ah, I see that that which is on at 7 pm is Next Generation, not Picard.
  • Evidently ST:Discovery is a season ahead in North America. It is the current season, #3, that is the most drippy in my opinion.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    Ruth wrote: »
    I love Lower Decks!
    Oh my! Lower Decks is so much fun! The intro is hysterical. (Especially the Space Baby nursing on the nacelle!) It's like Star Trek if klutzy me was in charge.

  • Ruth wrote: »
    Mostly I like Discovery, but this last episode was just annoying. The Vulcan court of inquiry made no sense at all--if there was any science or logic involved it sure went over my head. But I like the characters and the moral complexity they bring to a series whose weakness, to my mind, has always been a propensity for wrapping up moral dilemmas in overly neat packages by the end of the hour.

    I like Picard better though.

    Agree entirely about this last episode. And I never understood why Michael Burnham's mom is a member of a Romulan sect.

    If you developed the Red Angel tech (time travel before the original ST) you can do whatever the hell you want. Or so it seems. I want to see them explain away knowledge of time travel before Kirk appears. After all, Picard - post Kirk - found it conceptually difficult. As the series goes on, there are an increasing number of holes that they have to reconcile with previous series, or else it comes apart.

    Where's Occam's phaser when you need it?

  • Ruth wrote: »
    Mostly I like Discovery, but this last episode was just annoying. The Vulcan court of inquiry made no sense at all--if there was any science or logic involved it sure went over my head. But I like the characters and the moral complexity they bring to a series whose weakness, to my mind, has always been a propensity for wrapping up moral dilemmas in overly neat packages by the end of the hour.

    I like Picard better though.

    Agree entirely about this last episode. And I never understood why Michael Burnham's mom is a member of a Romulan sect.

    If you developed the Red Angel tech (time travel before the original ST) you can do whatever the hell you want. Or so it seems. I want to see them explain away knowledge of time travel before Kirk appears. After all, Picard - post Kirk - found it conceptually difficult. As the series goes on, there are an increasing number of holes that they have to reconcile with previous series, or else it comes apart.

    Kirk didn't seem to have much trouble dealing with time travel, managing it three or four times in the original series plus a trip to Wales - sorry, to the whales - in STIV. But then, conceptual thinking was not Kirk's strong point. The point of the Red Angel suit was that it was a one-off (possibly from the future? I can't remember), not a product of Starfleet technology. Knowledge of it would have been deleted from history along with details of the Discovery spore drive after the battle at the end of season 2.

    But there is always a problem with prequels in that they tend to rewrite series history. In a franchise like Star Trek, with every detail checked and double-checked by every fan in all four quadrants, that is bound to end in tears.
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    From what I've seen so far, the writers seem to have managed to put new stuff in the gaps in the canon, as with introducing Michael as Spock's sister, and going to Talos IV - and now in the 3rd season they're free to do more or less anything they like without reference to canon because it's all so far in the past.
  • luvanddaisiesluvanddaisies Shipmate Posts: 44
    I’m loving it more with each season, and I loved Lower Decks too, also really really liked Picard. I am a giant Trekkie though, and I’m quite excited that there are different Treks being made for different people.

    What does piss me off is those who seem to dedicate their whole energy to slagging off shows they don’t like. Like, why can’t they just not watch it and ignore it? I don’t like the JJ Abrams Trek films, so I just ignore them, don’t feel the need to start a YouTube channel to hate them; what is with that? It seems to be a thing in a lot of established fandoms, that anything new is shat upon with unnatural force by a small but mouthy minority. I wonder if they are partly annoyed that they can no longer claim to know everything about it because new things are being made? Or if they are so desperate to keep the thing they enjoyed that it isn’t allowed to grow or change and they’d rather it ossified in a cage. It’s weird, isn’t it?
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    @luvanddaisies Your thoughts and mine regarding Trek "fans" who take up so much time and energy talking about what they hate, are as one.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    And the magic mushrooms were just too much.

    Not entirely sure whether the space fungus was worse than Baby Yoda, but am fairminded and willing to concede that there are arguments on both sides.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    And the magic mushrooms were just too much.

    Not entirely sure whether the space fungus was worse than Baby Yoda, but am fairminded and willing to concede that there are arguments on both sides.

    I'm not taken by either.
  • If Discovery is the one where the main character in series is a mutineer - although I enjoy elements of it, I have the same problem I have with NCIS. It seems to justify “the ends justify the means” a lot.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Not entirely sure whether the space fungus was worse than Baby Yoda, but am fairminded and willing to concede that there are arguments on both sides.

    My complaint about the Baby Yoda show is that most of the episodes don't advance the main plot; we spend most of the time watching Mando dealing with someone else's problem in order to be granted just a tidbit of forward movement in getting Baby Yoda delivered home. I do like the second season better than the first, mainly because the makers realized that people want to see Baby Yoda, and they put him in a lot more scenes.
  • luvanddaisiesluvanddaisies Shipmate Posts: 44
    Trudy wrote: »
    @luvanddaisies Your thoughts and mine regarding Trek "fans" who take up so much time and energy talking about what they hate, are as one.
    It is pretty amazing the effort some of them go to, isn’t it? They must watch it in such great depth several times to find things to get offended about, then they spend the time making YouTube videos & podcasts, putting grumpy-face reacts on every post that mentions Discovery, insisting it’s “not canon”, and ranting about how Trek was never about social justice or diversity or politics in the good old days...

    It’s weird! Why can’t they just not like it, not watch it and move on?
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited December 2020
    Trudy wrote: »
    @luvanddaisies Your thoughts and mine regarding Trek "fans" who take up so much time and energy talking about what they hate, are as one.
    It is pretty amazing the effort some of them go to, isn’t it? They must watch it in such great depth several times to find things to get offended about, then they spend the time making YouTube videos & podcasts, putting grumpy-face reacts on every post that mentions Discovery, insisting it’s “not canon”, and ranting about how Trek was never about social justice or diversity or politics in the good old days...

    It’s weird! Why can’t they just not like it, not watch it and move on?

    Probably for similar reasons that I feel miffed by being unable to get into either Discovery or Enterprise - I loved tOS and tNG, was OK with DS9 and found a return to form with Voyager - then these came along and didn't feel like Star Trek as I knew and loved it

    I feel like something I should like has been made into something I don't so feel a bit cheated. Irrational, perhaps, but there's not much on telly I really like so it feels bad to have something I looked forward to disappoint. I identified as a bit of a Trekkie and it feels like 'my' show has been taken away and given to other people.

    Nevertheless, the 'never about diversity or social justice' people must have been watching the earlier series wearing a blindfold and earmuffs.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Nevertheless, the 'never about diversity or social justice' people must have been watching the earlier series wearing a blindfold and earmuffs.
    I am sensing exasperation.

    Personally, I think if it isn't written up by James Blish it isn't canon.
  • Worf: Captain! They've locked photon torpedos. Brace for impact.

    Troy: Captain, I am sensing violent hostility.

    Picard: Thank you Deanna. Remind me again why you get the comfy chair and Worf has to stand?
  • BerkeleyBerkeley Shipmate Posts: 16
    Evidently ST:Discovery is a season ahead in North America. It is the current season, #3, that is the most drippy in my opinion.

    Agreed. I'm on Season three and stopped watching episode 8 after about 10 minutes. There seems to be too much of people standing around emoting at each other for my taste. Spock and Pike were excellent characters in the first two seasons. With their departure, the show has lost something. I'm looking forward to a second season of Picard very much.
  • KarlLB wrote: »
    Worf: Captain! They've locked photon torpedos. Brace for impact.

    Troy: Captain, I am sensing violent hostility.

    Picard: Thank you Deanna. Remind me again why you get the comfy chair and Worf has to stand?

    I always wondered why Deanna was on the bridge so much, especially in hostile situations, when she was basically the ship's counsellor.

  • Sparrow wrote: »
    I always wondered why Deanna was on the bridge so much, especially in hostile situations, when she was basically the ship's counsellor.
    Because the viewers wanted to look at attractive women?

    I could come up with any number of in-universe reasons to make it plausible, but ...
  • Sparrow wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Worf: Captain! They've locked photon torpedos. Brace for impact.

    Troy: Captain, I am sensing violent hostility.

    Picard: Thank you Deanna. Remind me again why you get the comfy chair and Worf has to stand?

    I always wondered why Deanna was on the bridge so much, especially in hostile situations, when she was basically the ship's counsellor.

    I can't watch an episode with her without wanting to report her to whatever licensing board credentials Starfleet counselors...
  • SparrowSparrow Shipmate
    If I'd had a bad day and saw her walking towards me down the corridor with that caring expression on her face, I'd run and hide! Although of course being an empath, she'd track me down ....
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    TNG does stretch credulity sometimes. Like the mostly creative and constructive uses to which the holodeck is put. As opposed to what it would actually mainly be used for. Leave it for now that I wouldn't envy the guy who mops the floor.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    I listen to a Star Trek podcast that repeatedly points that out and speculates about Riker's holodeck porn programs.
  • What bothers me about the holodeck is that a holodeck malfunction seems to threaten the crew/ship/galaxy/universe about once every four shows. What does it take to get the defective things banned?
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    I would imagine that one might be able to adapt holodeck technology to flood the place with water or get a holodeck construct to mop the floor. Although then the holodeck construct would develop independent AI and hold the Enterprise to ransom for better conditions.
  • Deanna Troi was mostly an annoyance (like most in HR), but I once saw Marina Sirtis on a chat show, and she immensely fun and amusing. She the sort who I imagine would make a great dinner companion.
  • RuthRuth Admin Emeritus
    Deanna Troi and Beverly Crusher were consistently underwritten. The writers wasted Marina Sirtis' and Gates McFadden's talents throughout most of the 7-year run of the show.
  • EigonEigon Shipmate
    I remember the Robin Hood episode, where Deanna and Beverley were reduced to breaking pots over the baddies' heads in the fight scene - whereas Gates McFadden was actually a competent fencer. I'd have liked to see Geordi doing the breaking pots bit, and Beverley getting into the fighting properly.
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    edited December 27
    KarlLB wrote: »
    TNG does stretch credulity sometimes. Like the mostly creative and constructive uses to which the holodeck is put. As opposed to what it would actually mainly be used for. Leave it for now that I wouldn't envy the guy who mops the floor.

    I liked how this was addressed in Deep Space Nine, where you could do a lot of things in the holosuites including live out James-Bond-style spy fantasies, but it was pretty clear the main thing they were used for was porn.

    The biggest inconsistency with holodeck technology to me was Voyager (a series I generally love even though it's popular among Trek fans to hate it). So your ship is lost in the Delta Quandrant for what could be up to 70 years, you don't know when and where you're going to be able to get supplies to power the ship and run the replicators that feed everyone -- and yet you're going to keep the holodeck running, at what must be a HUGE expense in terms of power and energy, so the captain can fantasize about being a Jane-Eyre-style English governess and Tom Paris can act out terrible 1950s-style Earth sci-fi? And then in a later season they create an incredibly detailed early-20th-century stereotypical Irish village, complete with villagers, and keep it running because everyone likes it so much? (That does get, in a rather PG-way, into the "holodeck porn" element though, because it's pretty clearly implied Captain Janeway is banging the Irish bartender because she can't have sex with a member of her own crew).
  • Trudy wrote: »
    KarlLB wrote: »
    TNG does stretch credulity sometimes. Like the mostly creative and constructive uses to which the holodeck is put. As opposed to what it would actually mainly be used for. Leave it for now that I wouldn't envy the guy who mops the floor.

    I liked how this was addressed in Deep Space Nine, where you could do a lot of things in the holosuites including live out James-Bond-style spy fantasies, but it was pretty clear the main thing they were used for was porn.

    The biggest inconsistency with holodeck technology to me was Voyager (a series I generally love even though it's popular among Trek fans to hate it). So your ship is lost in the Delta Quandrant for what could be up to 70 years, you don't know when and where you're going to be able to get supplies to power the ship and run the replicators that feed everyone -- and yet you're going to keep the holodeck running, at what must be a HUGE expense in terms of power and energy, so the captain can fantasize about being a Jane-Eyre-style English governess and Tom Paris can act out terrible 1950s-style Earth sci-fi? And then in a later season they create an incredibly detailed early-20th-century stereotypical Irish village, complete with villagers, and keep it running because everyone likes it so much? (That does get, in a rather PG-way, into the "holodeck porn" element though, because it's pretty clearly implied Captain Janeway is banging the Irish bartender because she can't have sex with a member of her own crew).

    But if you're facing 70 years without shore leave, how else do you stop the crew from mutinying and settling on Pitcairn (a small planet far from Borg space)? It made sense to me despite the power and resource issues - a trade-off to ensure greater crew well-being.

    (My tablet corrected Pitcairn to Picard...)
  • TrudyTrudy Heaven Host, 8th Day Host
    Yes, and I think that is pretty much their justification for doing it -- it's essential for crew morale. And of course by that time "something goes wrong on the holodeck" was so well established as a ST trope that we would have missed it. Voyager had some good holodeck episodes too -- loved the WW2 one where Seven of Nine had to sing in the bar. But I still think it strained credibility a tiny bit. Of course a fully realistic Voyager would have pretty much been the "Year of Hell" episode on and on for seven years, which would have been grim....
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