Kerygmania: Staying awake in Gethsemane

TurquoiseTastic

So famously in Gethsemane (Mark 14:37) Peter, James and John are supposed to "watch and pray" but instead they fall asleep.

My question: why did Jesus want them to stay awake? Was it simply because he wanted company and moral support or was there another reason? If the former, how come he then went on a little further in order to be on his own? Also what did Jesus mean by "watch and pray so that you do not fall into temptation"?

Thoughts welcome!

Martin54

Depends dunnit? Whether it's verbatim, and He was a human-divine natured hybrid, or not. Or whether it's a pious fiction, in which case it's a purely literary question. Of late Hellenized Jewish literary genius. Always happy to go with the penultimate and ultimate premises. Which mainly overlap in their psychology. He was fully human either way. Not just, in the ultimate. Simple is always good. So going a little further? This was the rawest, most intense moment of His life with agency. Private. Nearly out of earshot. Temptation? To sleep.

MaryLouise

I've often read this (and it is only one of a number of interpretations) as following the theme of betrayal (verse 27: “You will all fall away,” Jesus told them) that begins when Jesus at the Last Supper predicts that Judas will betray him and then that Peter will deny him. Then the disciples fail to keep watch with him even though he returns to wake them three times. He is left utterly alone in the Garden of Gethsemane awaiting his persecutors.

I am also thinking about the word 'watch' from the Greek root word gregoreuo. In a Bible study I was following, this word literally means to 'stay awake', to pay special attention so that you can avoid or prevent a catastrophic tragedy. So the command to keep watch with me has a quality of urgency as well as solidarity, that we stay awake together as a group facing danger. For me it has always had a quality of 'bearing witness', that we watch over someone who is in danger or facing an ordeal, to stay present to those undergoing an ordeal, to watch what happens even if we are unable to prevent it.

I've been rereading Primo Levi's The Periodic Table and his experience in Auschwitz: the need to show solidarity and stand together, stay alert and ready to help one another is a significant part of what keeps us human in a dehumanising death camp. Even when exhausted, for prisoners to leave another to suffer or die alone is inexcusable. In the passage from Mark, it would seem that the very human vulnerability and inability to stay awake and keep watch is not just tiredness but a predicted abandonment of the leader the disciples have followed and to whom they have made a commitment. They, like Peter, are unable to honour that promise of loyalty and faithfulness.

MPaul

The key words are, perhaps, “Could you not watch one hour with me.”
From a human angle he emphasises his aloneness but Jesus knew what was about to happen to him. Perhaps he was showing them his vulnerability.

fineline

I struggle with this, as I get such heavy fatigue where I just fall asleep, where I can't stay awake any longer, where the fatigue is so heavy and painful.

I see the passage as about not always giving into the flesh, when there are more important things to focus on - like, for instance, a loving mother would make herself stay awake if her child were in danger, because her love for her child would be more powerful than her need for sleep. And in theory, our love for God would transcend even this. And I think too, it's good to have our priorities focused, for our own sense of purpose and wellbeing. So I see it as being about more than this particular moment of Jesus's life on earth, but equally also about that, because he was human and needed the support of his friends at his darkest moments, and he felt hurt that they fell asleep. And perhaps felt concerned about how they'd be once he was gone.

But I struggle with applying it to myself, and I struggle with how much is genuine health need, and how much is giving in, even from depression and a sense of defeat, and what constitutes sin here.

Lamb Chopped

I think he needed company and moral support, even if he felt a need for a little privacy too (the question about why he moved apart a bit). As for the sin in falling asleep, I think that applies to the disciples (not us, generally) because they'd just been swearing they'd all stay faithful, stay with Jesus, not deny him and not run away, at the last supper--every one of them, not just Peter. And now here they are, unable to offer the support of waking companionship (not that I blame them, fear and trauma have a tendency to send me to sleep too). But it doesn't augur well for how they'll behave when Judas shows up with the guards.

MaryLouise

There's no doubt that this would have been a disquieting and exhausting time for the disciples who were now aware that they had a traitor in their midst. They may also have suspected that Jesus might be arrested or attacked at any moment.

I'm thinking too about @TurquoiseTastic and @Lamb Chopped mentioning that Jesus might have wanted to be alone in order to pray, but with his disciples nearby. Looking at verse 32 onward, Jesus tells the disciples "Sit here while I pray". Then he takes Peter, James and John with him and confides in them " My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death" and asks them to stay and keep watch. He goes a little further and falls to the ground, prays to be spared what he knows is to come and then accepts the will of his Father.

To ask a very contemporary question: how do we know what took place when Jesus was alone in this heart-rending scene? Who witnessed this scene if the disciples were not there? Did Peter, James or John overhear this and remember it for later retelling? Because when Jesus returns to the three disciples, he finds them asleep and reproaches Peter, calling him by his old name Simon as if implying Peter has fallen back into his former unenlightened ways, anticipating Peter's denial of Christ the same night.


It seems clear to me that Jesus did not think he was asking too much of these three disciples, that they should stay awake for just one hour. We can take it that Jesus prayed then for at least an hour but the associations with the 'hour' are perhaps also the sense of the destined terrible hour approaching and the beginning of his Passion. When Jesus states: "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak," it signifies that human nature will always fail without the Holy Spirit, that when disciples are exhausted and traumatised, temptation proves too much.

I've found it helpful to pay especial attention to Peter in Mark's text because when the guards arrive led by Judas, Peter does act to try and save Jesus by cutting off the ear of Malchus, the high priest's servant. Jesus rebukes Peter again and heals Malchus. Peter then goes on to flee, hide and deny Christ but his earlier aggressive response shows he has not yet grasped the significance of what is happening and how Jesus will choose to respond. Peter's betrayal and misunderstandings are paradigmatic for the other followers of Jesus at this point. Peter's realisation of what he has done and the true epiphany will only come when he hears the cock crow and recalls the words of Jesus. He goes outside and weeps bitterly. That searing humiliation is the beginning of insight.

Telford

MaryLouise wrote: »

To ask a very contemporary question: how do we know what took place when Jesus was alone in this heart-rending scene? Who witnessed this scene if the disciples were not there?

It's one of several incidents that are puzzling. The classic example is the temptations of Jesus during his time in the desert.
The usual answer is that they got the information from Jesus. On this occasion it would have to be after the resurrection.

BroJames

Alternatively, what we have reported is only that part of the time of watching for which one or more of them managed to stay awake.

fineline

I had imagined they heard him praying what is written and then fell asleep. And we don't know the time frame. 'Then he returned to the disciples' could be some time later. Maybe they were overwhelmed by the intensity of it all and that also contributed to them falling asleep.

I suppose, from Jesus' perspective, he was making a far greater sacrifice than they were, pushing himself to far greater extremes, so he thought the least they could do was stay awake. But also, they didn't really understand what was happening, and Jesus seems to have frustrated by this, because to him it was very obvious.

Also, to what extent is it literal sleep, and to what extent a wider kind of giving in, feeling defeated? As in, is the literal sleep also a sign of an inner attitude, that there is nothing they can do, that this is too overwhelming and confusing.

Martin54

His reality check dawns in verse 41. The bargaining is over.

TurquoiseTastic

I find what @MaryLouise said about the parallel between the three snoozes and Peter's three denials later that night interesting. The idea that the failure to watch is a sort of mini-denial had actually struck me when reading the passage before posting (and that had never occured to me before).

Perhaps the temptation in v38 is the temptation to abandon and deny Jesus. Perhaps he is saying "just like me, you need to watch and pray and undergo this struggle with God's will; otherwise you won't be able to be loyal in the way you've been claiming".

MaryLouise

So much depends on whether we read Mark and the NT as primarily or only as realist narratives. Since I began studying midrash hermeneutics some years ago, the layers of allegory, symbolic repetitions and echoes in Biblical texts invite plural readings and that is what I come back to here. Not in any way denying the deeper truths in their fullness and mystery but allowing for a structuring that is doing several things at once and fulfilling a prophecy, so that Jesus acts and speaks in accordance with that foretelling, as taken from verse 27:

“You will all fall away,” Jesus told them, “for it is written:

“‘I will strike the shepherd,
and the sheep will be scattered."

He is quoting Zechariah 13:7 here and re-enacting what must be done to fulfil this.

What Jesus means when he says 'fall away" is again so complex and I was sitting puzzling over this earlier. The Greek verb for 'fall away' is skandalizo and in some translations Jesus tells the disciples "You will all be offended by me," because they will begin to doubt and distrust Jesus in the face of his torture and death. Their shepherd is to be struck down and none of them understand what he has to endure in order to carry out the will of God. A theology lecturer of mine at varsity would insist that the Cross was a scandal and a stumbling block and has remained that throughout Christian history. The disciples' inability to stand by Jesus in his hour of need or to keep faith (despite all their bold extravagant promises as @LambChopped mentioned) begins the scattering and confusion foretold by Zechariah's harsh prophecy.

MPaul

That he prayed at this time to avoid ‘this cup’ and that he was intensely stressed to the sweating of blood suggests his desire for support but their inability to meet his request underlines that uniquely, he had to bear this burden. That the cup must be drunk by him alone indicates the identity of the one who needed to die for humanity in this particular way. The disciples as part of humanity could not participate, even in prayer.

TurquoiseTastic

MPaul wrote: »

That he prayed at this time to avoid ‘this cup’ and that he was intensely stressed to the sweating of blood suggests his desire for support but their inability to meet his request underlines that uniquely, he had to bear this burden. That the cup must be drunk by him alone indicates the identity of the one who needed to die for humanity in this particular way. The disciples as part of humanity could not participate, even in prayer.

I see what you mean, but then I have the question - why did he ask them to, and seem disappointed that they could not, even to the point of giving a rebuke?

MPaul

TurquoiseTastic wrote: »

MPaul wrote: »

That he prayed at this time to avoid ‘this cup’ and that he was intensely stressed to the sweating of blood suggests his desire for support but their inability to meet his request underlines that uniquely, he had to bear this burden. That the cup must be drunk by him alone indicates the identity of the one who needed to die for humanity in this particular way. The disciples as part of humanity could not participate, even in prayer.

I see what you mean, but then I have the question - why did he ask them to, and seem disappointed that they could not, even to the point of giving a rebuke?

Perhaps as stated so well above by Mary Louise, it is all to do with demonstrating a theological point. In his humanity he is bereft but in his destiny, he is determined.

TurquoiseTastic

So he had to hope they'd manage to support him but he also had to be disappointed by that hope?

MPaul

TurquoiseTastic wrote: »

So he had to hope they'd manage to support him but he also had to be disappointed by that hope?

I guess..but it was all pre Nicea so maybe theology in ‘dumb-show.’

MaryLouise

@TurquoiseTastic , there's no doubt Mark raises some imponderables for us and I've often ended a reflection with more questions than answers! Those of us who come from traditions or draw on resources more tolerant of uncertainty, paradox and ambiguity still keep returning to these texts and puzzling over them while appreciating the sheer inexhaustibility of readings. When I saw your OP, I recalled a prayer retreat on Mark 14 that left me stranded in a quandary and not knowing where to turn, unable to 'know' this Jesus and his contradictory statements.

I'm going to push a little here and I'm leaning on the work done by theologians working with social memory (Sandra Huebenthal), looking at this gospel narrative as composing a collective memory of Jesus for the Markan community. Now we have the actual historical 'mundane' world of the disciples and Jesus shares this reality but is not bounded by it: through his Father he has access to and lives within a much greater and numinous reality or time-space continuum that stretches back to Zechariah, Isaiah, Elijah and the first Adam, a salvation history in which Jesus has come to understand the Kingdom as already and not-yet. His end will be his beginning: he foresees at times not only his own death but the eventual persecution and martyrdom of many of these confused and vacillating disciples around him, those who will be willing to drink the same cup. The meaning of what he says and does now at Gethsemane will only become clearer after his death and Resurrection.

So when we look at Jesus glimpsing the bigger picture and the divine reality of his Father, we see what the disciples could not see in their exhaustion. Yet the anguish of Jesus is his human reality and his longing to be spared what must come -- and falling to the ground in prayer apart from the sleeping disciples, Jesus experiences not just the betrayal by the sleeping disciples but the silence of God, not having his despairing prayer answered. This foreshadows the final abandonment he will experience on the Cross, that his Father will abandon him at the point of death.

Gee D

TurquoiseTastic wrote: »

I see what you mean, but then I have the question - why did he ask them to, and seem disappointed that they could not, even to the point of giving a rebuke?

The rebuke was addressed to them in the first instance but remains for us as well.

MaryLouise

The nature of the rebuke is still ambiguous for some of us, since it would seem the disciples were not able to stay awake and were deserting the shepherd as prophesied. There's such tension between 'this happened because it had to happen,' and 'this happened because the disciples didn't try harder to stay awake and keep watch.'

I do want to just make a contrast between the disciples who will deny Christ, scatter and disperse in their confusion and an earlier incident placed at the beginning of Mark 14, the Anointing at Bethany (Mark 14: 3-9).

A woman comes into the home of Simon the Leper where Jesus is reclining at the table and breaks open a sealed alabaster jar of nard with which she anoints the head of Jesus. He understands her to be acting in accordance with the will of God by preparing him for his burial. Instinctively, she is performing a ritual of great significance, something missed by the disciples present. With this symbolic gesture, the Markan narrator begins the story of the betrayal by Judas and the Passion of Christ. What does this woman intuitively grasp that the disciples are unable to understand? Jess affirms her action as belonging with the bigger picture, the hidden reality he is living through in terms of what has to come: "...wherever the gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her."