Keryg 2018: Did the Ethiopian eunuch have a Kindle?

MamacitaMamacita Shipmate
edited January 19 in Limbo
Of course not. But I was wondering today as the lesson from Acts 8: 26-40 was read, particularly this:
He had come to Jerusalem to worship and was returning home; seated in his chariot, he was reading the prophet Isaiah.
Now I'm picturing him riding in the chariot holding the Isaiah scroll (which would be seriously large) - or was it something else? I'm assuming that since this man was in charge of the Queen's treasury he was wealthier than the average Palestinian Jew, but did even wealthy people typically have a set of the scrolls of the Law and the Prophets in their own homes? (Apologies for getting us into the realm of conjecture, but perhaps there's someone here who knows!)
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Comments

  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    And in what language was he reading? That was the thought that struck me while this was being read yesterday. We assume that he had a charioteer also, and probably a bit of a retinue as well. Then there's the question of why he had gone to Jerusalem in the first instance and that turns our minds to a possible spread of Judaism to Ethiopia.

    Having gone through all these thoughts (and there are probably many more, we can start to think of the substance of the passage.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Various:

    --If it were a straight road and a well-trained horse, he might have been able to manage mixing reading with occasional driving.

    --Maybe it was just a section of Isaiah? And designed to be more portable? Wouldn't necessarily be a huge Torah scroll.

    --It's thought that Solomon and the Queen of Sheba had a son together, Menelik (Wikipedia). As an adult, he reportedly spent time with his dad, then returned to Ethiopia with the Ark of the Covenant and an entourage that included sons of priests. If that's true, then Judaism did reach Ethiopia, regardless of any transfer before or after.

    (And this lineage eventually gave us Rastafarianism, which is rooted in Haile Selassie, the last emperor of Ethiopia. :) )

    --Look up "Lemba Jewish Africa". The Lemba people are black Africans, but have also said that they're Jewish. There was a lot of publicity, maybe 30 years ago, because someone checked that out via DNA. They do have Jewish DNA markers; and the markers for the priestly occur more often in the Lemba than in other Jewish groups. IIRC, their origin story is that they came to Africa with Menelik. And they keep various Jewish customs.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    I had always assumed that this high official from the Kandake’s court had someone to drive for him. I’ve never thought to wonder what he was reading from (surely it was an Authorised Version Bible :wink:)
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    I am amazed that he could read in a moving chariot. I suspect a chariot did not give a smooth ride, and the roads were certainly not smooth.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I read on my train journey to/from work.

    I imagine that he was not reading the AV save in his mind. Was he reading in Hebrew, Aramaic/Greek? Interesting to speculate. Had he had a Kindle he could of course have enlarged the font so as to make it easier to read in a bumpy chariot, and at the same time in a translation into a language he read.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited April 2018
    How long could he read for before the battery went flat? Perhaps the chariot has a USB port, fed either by a dynamo linked to the chariot wheels or by solar cells on the frilly canopy.

    Or not ...
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Gee D, I hope the rails in Australia aren't much like rigid wheels on an unsurfaced and rutted road.

    Perhaps BT, his horse had some sort of apparatus attached to its rear end that could generate a 12V charge from methane.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    When Jesus went to the synagogue he was passed the scroll of the prophet Isaiah, and he quite rapidly (it seems) found the passage he was looking for. So, certainly within the synagogue scrolls, even for something as substantial as Isaiah were relatively easy to carry and use.

    It's true we don't know the purpose of his visit to Jerusalem, except that he came to worship. He could have been a pilgrim to one of the festivals. He wouldn't have been a fully accepted Jew, so limited to the outer courts of the Temple. But, wanting to be as near the action as possible. Perhaps he had procured a set of scrolls for the Jewish community back in Ethiopia, and was working his way through them on the journey - who doesn't like a good book to read on a long journey? And, who doesn't want to read a new book as soon as they can?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    A kind thought Enoch, but all too often passengers get the impression that the charioteer had the better ride.

    It is a pity that we don't know more about this man. He is important in that he as a non-Jew was one of the early converts to Christianity. It would be satisfying to be told more.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    edited April 2018
    In Acts 8:28 it says he was "reading aloud". Perhaps he had memorised that particular bit.
    After all, if it was one of the Servant Songs (Isaiah 53:7,8 according to The Queer Bible Commentary, page 573), he could quite easily have memorised it.
    If he was anything like Sir Humphrey Appleby or Bernard (Yes, Minister) he could probably memorise fair chunks of text
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    It's almost certain that he could have memorised that text (and a lot more), if he was a Jew, or convert to Judaism, and had spent a lot of time in the synagogue. Until modern time and near universal literacy, and ease of reproducing printed words, memorisation was the primary means of passing on teaching.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    This is quite true, but the text of Acts does say he was reading - unless there’s some translational issue I’m not aware of.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    I'm going to guess that reading quietly was unknown, or very rare. Most people were illiterate, even the rich and powerful, so any letters etc would be read to them by a scribe. Or, especially for scriptures, read aloud to a group of people (even if they were all literate the cost of a scroll would make it impossible for everyone to have one). It's possible he was reading aloud because that was how things were done. It's not impossible that he wasn't reading at all, but a scribe accompanying him was reading it aloud for him - I've no idea if someone in that elevated position in government would be literate, but probably not able to read a foreign language (maybe the scribe was reading and translating). All speculation.
  • I suspect he had a copy of the Septuagint version, and was certainly reading aloud because that's what everybody did back then. IMHO it's easier to read Greek than Hebrew on a bumpy ride (the letters don't look so much alike). And it seems eminently sensible to bring a book with you on a long chariot ride, particularly if you have a driver. As we're told "he commanded the chariot to stop," he probably did (unless he was in the habit of talking to his horses, not to mention driving while seated).
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    I suspect he had a copy of the Septuagint version, and was certainly reading aloud because that's what everybody did back then. .

    AIUI in those days people not only read aloud but prayed aloud This is how we know what Jesus prayed at Gethsemane.



  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    I think the story as we have it is a pious legend; a bit of hagiography if you will. The casual appearance of an angel to Philip, then his spooky disappearance at the end, is at odds with the rather down to earth tone of most of Acts. As such, the nature of the scroll, book, kindle or microdot is somewhat moot.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited April 2018
    Moo wrote: »
    I suspect he had a copy of the Septuagint version, and was certainly reading aloud because that's what everybody did back then. .

    AIUI in those days people not only read aloud but prayed aloud This is how we know what Jesus prayed at Gethsemane.



    Who heard him? The disciples fell asleep.
  • I remember reading about Augustine meeting with Jerome, and the former was astounded that the latter could read without moving his lips!
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Moo wrote: »
    I suspect he had a copy of the Septuagint version, and was certainly reading aloud because that's what everybody did back then. .

    AIUI in those days people not only read aloud but prayed aloud This is how we know what Jesus prayed at Gethsemane.
    Jewish practice, as I understand it, still requires that prayers must be voiced, even if very quietly.

  • mousethief wrote: »
    I remember reading about Augustine meeting with Jerome, and the former was astounded that the latter could read without moving his lips!

    Yes. Reading silently was not a practice at the time of Acts.

    As for the spread of Judaism, it is fairly well established that there were Jewish diaspora groups in Egypt, along the Nile. So it isn't unreasonable to think that this could have spread up the Nile into what we know today as Sudan but then would have been referred to Ethiopia.

    In fact, not long ago it was confirmed by DNA that some Jews made it as far as Zimbabwe.
  • GalilitGalilit Shipmate
    edited May 2018
    Indeed, my daughter was instructed in this very Practice on her conversion course. You see it in public all the time. You (as the person next to them on the bus or in the doctor's waiting room) don't hear all the reading just some letters eg "s" and "t" that you cannot make silently.

    The advantage of actually saying the words is to slow you down and make sure that you do actually read it and don't gulp chunks of words at a glance (out of acquired reading-skills).

    I would think the Ethiopian Eunuch was saying it to himself "regular" though; being a Newbie and also perhaps wanting to get it into his head or maybe even feel better about being treated "rotten" by the authorities (Acts 8:33a). And having his own chariot and all he could do whatever he wanted.

    I think the passage had almost certainly been brought to his attention before, and he knew what it meant and was reciting it in Hebrew.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Galilit wrote: »
    Indeed, my daughter was instructed in this very Practice on her conversion course. You see it in public all the time. You (as the person next to them on the bus or in the doctor's waiting room) don't hear all the reading just some letters eg "s" and "t" that you cannot make silently.

    The advantage of actually saying the words is to slow you down and make sure that you do actually read it and don't gulp chunks of words at a glance (out of acquired reading-skills).
    It also involves body (tongue) and spirit (breath) as well as mind. That is part of the reasoning I have always heard—it is a way of making sure the whole person is praying.

    I’ll admit it is a practice I have found salutary, both for this reason and for the reason you give.

  • tclunetclune Shipmate
    [Tangent]
    A number of people have said that most folks in the first century were illiterate. I have often heard people claim as much, but I know of no basis in fact for that idea. Do any of you have a reliable source of this claim, or is it just assumed that it must be so?
    [/Tangent]
  • I can't point to any source but I remember reading some time ago that basic literary levels were quite high even an "out of the way" place like Galilee. Most people spoke Greek as well as Aramaic and could probably write/read in both languages.

    The Ethiopian eunuch, being a senior court official, would have been literate in his own language (some form of Amharic???) and possibly any other language in which he had to do business. If he had been a God-fearer for some time and had a lot of contact with Jews, it wouldn't be surprising if he was fluent in Hebrew.

    (I've known a number of people - especially from Africa - who have been fluent to 5 or more languages.)
  • MudfrogMudfrog Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Moo wrote: »
    I suspect he had a copy of the Septuagint version, and was certainly reading aloud because that's what everybody did back then. .

    AIUI in those days people not only read aloud but prayed aloud This is how we know what Jesus prayed at Gethsemane.



    Who heard him? The disciples fell asleep.

    Mark

    "A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him, he fled naked, leaving his garment behind."
    Mark 14 v 51 - 52
  • If they stayed awake for five minutes, it would be long enough for what we have. Sheesh.
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Most people in an agrarian society have very little need for writing. In the cities, in the merchant class, yes there will be literacy. Not among the peasantry though. Widespread literacy in the lower classes came about with widespread availability of cheap books, which is very much a modern phenomenon. Thank Mr. Fourdrinier.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Even among the educated there would be little opportunity to write, though reading may have been much more common. Think how Paul notes that when he actually writes something with his own hand that the letters are so large. Paper would have been expensive, Romans often used wax pads for temporary notes (which would be short), probably in other places other things used for short notes. Maybe writing things in the dirt.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    As a Eunuch the Ethiopian would not be allowed to become one of God's people under Old Testament law because he was not a whole person. However when Phillip explained the passage of Isaiah to him, the Eunuch asks the question, "What's to prevent me from being baptized?" Now, under the old law, the Eunuch had no hope of acceptance, but under the new covenant, the Eunuch realized his physical nature would no longer prevent him from being God's people.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    As a Eunuch the Ethiopian would not be allowed to become one of God's people under Old Testament law because he was not a whole person. However when Phillip explained the passage of Isaiah to him, the Eunuch asks the question, "What's to prevent me from being baptized?" Now, under the old law, the Eunuch had no hope of acceptance, but under the new covenant, the Eunuch realized his physical nature would no longer prevent him from being God's people.

    Can I suggest it never really did? Do we think God did really once have a thing against eunuchs?
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited May 2018
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Can I suggest it never really did? Do we think God did really once have a thing against eunuchs?
    There's stuff in the Torah which implies this, but I have sometimes speculated whether Daniel and Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego would have been made eunuchs when they were taken into the king of Persia's service. Dan 1:7 could imply this. The next verse, though, might have been expressly included so as to make it clear this had not been done to them.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    In Christ neither circumcised nor uncircumised are different, and I may suggest that extends to other operations. But, before Christ circumcision was a mark of faithfulness to God, so maybe the way people interpreted the rules was more than just a difference in interpretation.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    mousethief wrote: »
    I remember reading about Augustine meeting with Jerome, and the former was astounded that the latter could read without moving his lips!
    It was Anselm and Augustine; Augustine was surprised at Anselm's silent reading.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I recall discussion on this board many years ago when the consensus was that the term eunuch could simply mean a high royal servant as well as someone who had been castrated. I'm in no position to argue that either way.

    Back to the suggestion about Daniel 1.7 - v.8 can be read both in support of either argument but the words "in this way" are more on the side of other defilement having already occurred. V.4 is much more strongly against it, with the 4 handsome young men having been chosen because one of their characteristics was that they had no physical defect.

    I know that some of my comments on this thread have been light-hearted, and I also know that the various problems that Karl.B refers to are there. That said, fo us the important point is that this is the conversion of a total foreigner, not even a Samaritan with their imperfect links to orthodox Judaism. And not just a foreigner, but a leading official in the government of his own country.

  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    I remember reading about Augustine meeting with Jerome, and the former was astounded that the latter could read without moving his lips!
    It was Anselm and Augustine; Augustine was surprised at Anselm's silent reading.

    Thanks for the correction. That makes more sense given the fraught relationship between Augustine and Jerome.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    It fits into the "preach the gospel in Jerusalem, Judea unto the ends of the earth" narrative of Acts. Philip has left Jerusalem where he was supporting the preaching of the Apostles, and is preaching in Judea ... and then gets this opportunity to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth. I'm not sure how much further into Africa people at the time knew, but Ethiopia around the upper reaches of the Nile would have been seen by many as the furthest reach of civilisation to the south.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    Yes, Philip was to go and teach the Ethiopian; James the Greater went to Finisterre (hope I have that spelling correct), literally the end of the earth as it was known to the Romans.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited May 2018
    Dafyd wrote: »
    It was Anselm and Augustine; Augustine was surprised at Anselm's silent reading.
    Are you sure? The second came about 500 years after the first.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    According to Alberto Manguel’s A History if Reading it was Augustine of Hippo who remarked in his Confessions on Ambrose of Milan’s unusual silent reading. Though Manguel then goes on to note several other evidences of early silent reading, and that it was rare or unusual.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Do we really think God had something against Eunuchs? No, but it was quite common for eunuchs to be excluded from temple worship in other cultures surrounding the Isrealites
    No [man] who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the Lord. Deut 23:1 NIV

    That is why I find the Eunuch's question about what is there to prevent him from being baptized very revolutionary.
  • Is it possible that a Septuagint version of Isaiah might be presented in codex form as early Christian scriptures were?
  • The RogueThe Rogue Shipmate
    Was the chariot moving while he was reading the scroll? Philip was instructed to go over to the chariot which might have been tricky if it was moving. How quick do they travel? He was invited in and they chatted and the chariot was moving then because the eunuch commanded it to stop for the baptism. I had always supposed that it was parked for some reason and then started on its way again once Philip was on board.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    By that time, chariots were no longer weapons of war (supplanted by fighting from horse back) and there were two forms of chariot - lightweight chariots for racing, and big heavy things for carrying stuff (two wheels over very rough ground have some advantages over a four wheel wagon - providing you're not carrying a lot of stuff). The Ethiopian would have been riding one of those larger chariots used for transport - with a driver, probably an awning to give shade from the sun, benches to sit on in something close to comfort ... and heavy enough that on anything except the best made roads unlikely to travel faster than walking pace. Philip could have been told to approach the road so that the chariot slowly passed him, enough time to hear what's being read and start the conversation as the chariot passed at a slightly faster speed.
  • PixitPixit Shipmate Posts: 14
    edited May 2018
    mousethief wrote: »
    I remember reading about Augustine meeting with Jerome, and the former was astounded that the latter could read without moving his lips!

    I think it was Augustine (Hippo) and Ambrose.
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
  • mousethiefmousethief Shipmate
    That makes sense. Augustine idolized Ambrose and thought much less highly, to put it nicely, of Jerome.
  • AndrasAndras Shipmate
    I think the same story is told of Julius Caesar reading a dispatch without needing to speak the words; could easily be true of both, I suppose.
  • MooMoo Kerygmania Host
    Andras wrote: »
    I think the same story is told of Julius Caesar reading a dispatch without needing to speak the words; could easily be true of both, I suppose.

    I suspect it was a very common occurrence.

  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    I'm going to guess that reading quietly was unknown, or very rare.

    Actually silent reading is a relatively modern innovation. up until the 18th century and beyond it was regarded as being a bit 'occult and suspicious behaviour'.
  • RdrEmCofERdrEmCofE Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Do we really think God had something against Eunuchs? No, but it was quite common for eunuchs to be excluded from temple worship in other cultures surrounding the Isrealites
    No [man] who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the Lord. Deut 23:1 NIV

    That is why I find the Eunuch's question about what is there to prevent him from being baptized very revolutionary.

    Almost certainly why the account found its way into Acts of The Apostles.
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