Aster*sks

NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
Prompted by this thread I would welcome a discussion about asterisks and their uses. Some I think have become common parlance on the Ship, such as "sn*w" - where it's fairly clear what the missing vowel is, also from context, also because an asterisk looks like a snowflake. In other places it is not so clear. At times we seem to use them to avoid naming specific products or organisations (to avoid any hint of advertising?). Are there other reasons? Can we find ways to use them without losing clarity?
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Comments

  • I get the imperession that when the asterisks are used in peoples names it is because the posters are treating those names as though they are expletives.

    It certainly seems to be used most frequently for the names of people that are considered by some music snobs here as inferior musicians.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    There have been a few recently that meant nothing to me. 🤔
  • Please can we avoid making humour illegal? Establishing rules for absolutely everything is overkill.
  • Boogie wrote: »
    There have been a few recently that meant nothing to me. 🤔
    Same here.

    Please can we avoid making humour illegal? Establishing rules for absolutely everything is overkill.
    That assumes the use of asterisks as described is actually humorous, which I think is debatable.

    I actually wondered whether, at least when it comes to names, replacing letters with asterisks already falls under the rule about not changing someone’s name, except in Hell.


  • As a rule, I don't like asterisking words. I mean, if we cannot say what we mean, maybe we shouldn't say it at all. And yes, sometimes it is clear in the context - if you happen to be in the right context.

    I was just looking at the thread that prompted this - and the uses are ridiculous, IMO. It makes it impossible for me (and so, I presume some others) to know what is being talked about. It means I cannot know whether I want to join in or contribute. Maybe that is the point, but it shouldn't be.

    I can see it working in a humourous context - in some cases. I can see that there are a few names that people don't want to sully their fingers with. I would totally understand President T**** and the MP N**** F******. In the right threads, these are probably clear - although the second one might be confusing to non-UK posters.

    And this divergence of posters is important to recognise. Not everyone knows that John Rutter is not greatly liked among choirs, due to overuse.
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    We used to have a shipmate who would sort of prove this point by typing things like “fuckw*t” and “shit*ead”
  • NicoleMRNicoleMR Shipmate
    I find the use of asterisks in this way to be somewhere between pointless and confusing. And not humorous at all.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Is it just asterisks that people would be objecting to the use of? I think I routinely type "G-d".
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    Presumably for theological reasons rather than as a commentary ?
  • I often don't get what the word is. Ah well.
  • All of these attempts to codify the way people use language get to me. Without exception. I'm never supposed to be figurative, use metaphor, use abbreviations, use asterisks. I'm not writing a scientific report. Go away.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I have to lean in @ThunderBunk 's direction on this. If people want to amuse themselves by engaging in little nods to "speak of the devil and he appears" type superstitions then they take the risk of not being understood and their posts being ignored, depending on the level of obfuscation. For myself I prefer an elegant circumlocution to the bluntness of asterisks but to each their own.
  • I have to lean in @ThunderBunk 's direction on this. If people want to amuse themselves by engaging in little nods to "speak of the devil and he appears" type superstitions then they take the risk of not being understood and their posts being ignored, depending on the level of obfuscation.
    They also run the risk of that self-amusement being seen as juvenile, lacking in creativity or just annoying. That doesn’t mean, of course, that there should be rules to prevent anyone from running that risk.


  • TwangistTwangist Shipmate
    It certainly seems to be used most frequently for the names of people that are considered by some music snobs here as inferior musicians.

    Guilty as charged - apologies
  • Caissa wrote: »
    Is it just asterisks that people would be objecting to the use of? I think I routinely type "G-d".

    In this case, while I am not a fan, on a Christian board, it is sufficiently well known across everyone that it is probably fine.

    And I get the reasons for this.

    It is one specific bowdlerization for God on a board where God is referenced a lot. If you did this for Ang_ls and D_v_l and H_ly Sp_r_t I would start to question it.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Doublethink asked: Presumably for theological reasons rather than as a commentary ?

    To which Caissa responds: Yes, in deference to my observant Jewish friends.
  • I have to lean in @ThunderBunk 's direction on this. If people want to amuse themselves by engaging in little nods to "speak of the devil and he appears" type superstitions then they take the risk of not being understood and their posts being ignored, depending on the level of obfuscation. For myself I prefer an elegant circumlocution to the bluntness of asterisks but to each their own.

    Interesting - I’d actually read @ThunderBunk ’s post in the exact opposite way, as in ‘resist attempts to police what and how I write’
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    I read it that way, as well.
  • I have to lean in @ThunderBunk 's direction on this. If people want to amuse themselves by engaging in little nods to "speak of the devil and he appears" type superstitions then they take the risk of not being understood and their posts being ignored, depending on the level of obfuscation. For myself I prefer an elegant circumlocution to the bluntness of asterisks but to each their own.
    Interesting - I’d actually read @ThunderBunk ’s post in the exact opposite way, as in ‘resist attempts to police what and how I write’
    I took that to be how @Arethosemyfeet read it as well. I understood him to be saying there shouldn’t be any rules, host-policing or prohibition of use of asterisks in the way this thread is about. But he was also saying that those who use asterisks in this way should be mindful that they run a risk of not being understood or of being ignored.

    A reminder of the potential consequences of posting in a certain style is not, I don’t think, an attempt to “police” how another posts, especially when it doesn’t come from hosts or admins.


  • The problem with G-d is that it could be God, as sometimes written online by Jewish people, or God-damned.
  • Having been in Facebook Jail enough times to memorize all the graffiti in every cell, I instinctively censor my posts, and have to strive to remember that the Ship isn't so delicate.
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    mousethief wrote: »
    Having been in Facebook Jail enough times to memorize all the graffiti in every cell, I instinctively censor my posts, and have to strive to remember that the Ship isn't so delicate.

    Are asterisks a way of self-censoring on Facebook or does the algorithm catch them these days?
  • Caissa wrote: »
    Doublethink asked: Presumably for theological reasons rather than as a commentary ?

    To which Caissa responds: Yes, in deference to my observant Jewish friends.

    Yep - and, as I said, I don't actually have a problem with it, in fact, I admire your concern for others.

    I just didn't want to say this was something that should be stretched.
    mousethief wrote: »
    The problem with G-d is that it could be God, as sometimes written online by Jewish people, or God-damned.

    Context normally clarifies this. And on this board, I think God is most likely.
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Nick Tamen wrote: »
    I have to lean in @ThunderBunk 's direction on this. If people want to amuse themselves by engaging in little nods to "speak of the devil and he appears" type superstitions then they take the risk of not being understood and their posts being ignored, depending on the level of obfuscation. For myself I prefer an elegant circumlocution to the bluntness of asterisks but to each their own.
    Interesting - I’d actually read @ThunderBunk ’s post in the exact opposite way, as in ‘resist attempts to police what and how I write’
    I took that to be how @Arethosemyfeet read it as well. I understood him to be saying there shouldn’t be any rules, host-policing or prohibition of use of asterisks in the way this thread is about. But he was also saying that those who use asterisks in this way should be mindful that they run a risk of not being understood or of being ignored.

    A reminder of the potential consequences of posting in a certain style is not, I don’t think, an attempt to “police” how another posts, especially when it doesn’t come from hosts or admins.
    Yes. I was posting as a shipmate, not a host, and just wanted a discussion around why people use asterisks - or dashes, thank you for the clarification on that - and to flag up the potential loss of clarity, assuming that we do want our posts to be understood. I'm not suggesting there should be any sort of ruling or policing.
  • HopeHope Shipmate Posts: 3
    (Unlurking)

    Does it not relate to the requirement to provide a translation when writing in a language other than English, no matter how well known the non-English phrase might be in the English-spelling world?

    (Re-lurking)
  • Hope wrote: »
    (Unlurking)

    Does it not relate to the requirement to provide a translation when writing in a language other than English, no matter how well known the non-English phrase might be in the English-spelling world?

    (Re-lurking)

    Yes, I thought that. Presumably, the point of asterisks is to hide something. OK, this can be humorous, but quite often, I just can't decipher it. It doesn't bug me a lot.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    Oy veh! The abolition on even common non-English words prohibition bugs me but that is a discussion for a different thread.
  • Instead of Waitrose, you have W**t****. Hilarious.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Yes, I don't understand asterisking out the names of supermarkets, like we're suddenly going to bump their popularity by mentioning them?
  • Boogie wrote: »
    mousethief wrote: »
    Having been in Facebook Jail enough times to memorize all the graffiti in every cell, I instinctively censor my posts, and have to strive to remember that the Ship isn't so delicate.

    Are asterisks a way of self-censoring on Facebook or does the algorithm catch them these days?

    I've not been caught yet when using asterisks. But mostly I use other letters (fvck) or non-Latin letters, or symbols. An omicron looks just like an 'o' but I doubt the algorithm can detect it.
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    I think the practice first arose in the late eighteenth or early nineteenth century in the fond but erroneous belief that it would somehow render one immune to the threat of libel, as though one could somehow claim that the asterisks meant that
    'the Pr*nce R*g*nt and the M*rqu*s of St*yne were seen on Tuesday in a carriage in Brighton with Mrs B*cky Cr*wl*y wife of the Governor of C*v*ntry Island'
    might be referring to someone else other than the heir to the throne, the Marquis of Steyne and Mrs Crawley née Sharp.

  • The most effective use I've seen for the asterisk as substitution is Kurt Vonnegut's use of it as a graphic portrayal of the posterior sphincter, as in, "He is an *!"
  • I suppose I see this in some books where they us B_ to hide who they are talking about. It always annoys me. I get why, but also, why.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    If someone is using asterisks (or other alternative symbols/letters) to obscure a name for concern that they might be posting something libellous then the replaced letters isn't the problem. Please avoid posting things that could be libel, and then there's no need to obscure names.
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited October 5
    Not so--I regularly post stuff that could get me turned into the main course on the Thanksgiving table if my relatives / boss/ church friends realized it, and so I use initials etc. The prayer thread is full of it. Really, I'll do it any time the situation is non-public and calls for discretion, whether lawsuits are a possibility or not.

    ETA I see i misread your post somewhat. Sorry! Still, i think it's worth pointing out that not everybody has legal concerns on their mind when they asterisk, even in a very much discussed case.
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Protection of personal data is a valid concern, and you're right that it's often appropriate in a prayer thread or similar circumstances to not give names. I doubt if anyone would question why in those circumstances names are replaced by an initial. The thread referenced in the OP doesn't appear to fall into that category, but as I've no idea who or what has been obscured on that thread it's not something I can be certain about.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Twangist wrote: »
    It certainly seems to be used most frequently for the names of people that are considered by some music snobs here as inferior musicians.

    Guilty as charged - apologies

    Me too! :blush:
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Protection of personal data is a valid concern, and you're right that it's often appropriate in a prayer thread or similar circumstances to not give names. I doubt if anyone would question why in those circumstances names are replaced by an initial. The thread referenced in the OP doesn't appear to fall into that category, but as I've no idea who or what has been obscured on that thread it's not something I can be certain about.

    The thread I referenced in the OP started with a post containing "Tr*** M***s" which baffled me for quite a while as we don't have a Trago Mills superstore anywhere near us and I've never been to one. I suspect they are UK only so our non-UK shipmates couldn't be expected to know what it stood for. And I didn't understand why it was obscured, and still don't - was it to avoid any hint of advertising or are the names dirty words because going there is a dreadful experience?

    In subsequent posts there follows "Ru**er" and "l***d-w****r", the first fairly easily guessed, the second puzzling (at least to me) not least because of the lack of capital letters. @Roseofsharon 's post upthread seems to have hit on the reasons why these were obscured.
  • kingsfoldkingsfold Shipmate
    Nenya wrote: »
    In subsequent posts there follows "Ru**er" and "l***d-w****r", the first fairly easily guessed, the second puzzling (at least to me) not least because of the lack of capital letters. @Roseofsharon 's post upthread seems to have hit on the reasons why these were obscured.

    I did not get the second of those at all: it never even occurred to me, and I just wondered who was being referred to as a lurid-wanker.... (yes, that's what my brain substituted).

    I'll get my coat.
  • I still haven't worked out the second one.

    Oh yes, I suddenly have! Presumably *ndr*w rather than J**i*n.
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    So we have a game: given a word in which some letters have been replaced with asterisks, guess the word. Does that belong in the Circus? **s *r *o?
  • Still completely lost on me, but maybe that's for the best.

    In the past, I've tended to use asterisks as quotation marks - *Sun-Shine*, instead of 'Sun-Shine' - partly because I never seem able to easily find the quotation marks " or ' on the QWERTY keyboard...I've only been using a keyboard for 60 years, so bear with me. I'm Old, and Feak and Wheeble, and Not Long For This World.

    I'm now trying to stop doing this, and apologise for offence caused heretofore, though AFAIK no-one's called me out for it.
  • CaissaCaissa Shipmate
    edited October 6
    ETA: I miscounted the asterisks.
  • I still haven't worked out the second one.

    Oh yes, I suddenly have! Presumably *ndr*w rather than J**i*n.

    One would presume so, but what about William?
    Not being particularly familiar with his work, I can't be sure that the type of church music he wrote was of sufficient quality to avoid asteriskism
  • Still completely lost on me, but maybe that's for the best.

    In the past, I've tended to use asterisks as quotation marks - *Sun-Shine*, instead of 'Sun-Shine' - partly because I never seem able to easily find the quotation marks " or ' on the QWERTY keyboard...I've only been using a keyboard for 60 years, so bear with me. I'm Old, and Feak and Wheeble, and Not Long For This World.

    I'm now trying to stop doing this, and apologise for offence caused heretofore, though AFAIK no-one's called me out for it.

    The real fault with quotes is when people open a quote then never close it. So you can't always be sure whose words are whose. Parentheses are similar.
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Still completely lost on me, but maybe that's for the best.

    In the past, I've tended to use asterisks as quotation marks - *Sun-Shine*, instead of 'Sun-Shine' - partly because I never seem able to easily find the quotation marks " or ' on the QWERTY keyboard...I've only been using a keyboard for 60 years, so bear with me. I'm Old, and Feak and Wheeble, and Not Long For This World.

    I'm now trying to stop doing this, and apologise for offence caused heretofore, though AFAIK no-one's called me out for it.

    In my book at least there's no need for an apology for that as the asterisks in those cases don't obfuscate the meaning.
    HarryCH wrote: »
    **s *r *o?
    I have no idea what that's supposed to stand for.

  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    Yes or no, I presume.
  • I am reminded of an old saw:

    An abbv is a hndy wy 2 shrtn up a wrd
    But wn it's crrd 2 xtrms the pnt bcms absrd
  • mousethief wrote: »
    I am reminded of an old saw:

    An abbv is a hndy wy 2 shrtn up a wrd
    But wn it's crrd 2 xtrms the pnt bcms absrd

    :lol:

    Brill...!
  • Don't you mean br*ll**nt?
This discussion has been closed.