Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

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  • I've never understood why Henry VIII often tops the poll of favourite English monarchs. He was a murderous bastard, lecherous beyond belief and all-round Bad King.

    In other words, he was worse than, but not so very different from, our Prime Minister. And he was effectively elected.

    I have heard of men and women making 'bad choices' (I have seen a few), but the election of Boris and the high esteem in which Henry VII cannot be disconnected.
  • Rossweisse wrote: »
    My money's on Henry VII as the murder/instigator. Nothing was rumored about the boys' having disappeared until after he usurped the throne, and H7 and H8 were a notoriously bloody lot.

    This is just wrong - the idea that the King of England and the heir presumptive just disappeared and nobody noticed for two or three years is barely believable. Lots of people noticed the boys were missing and wondered what had happened to them, and rumours that they'd been murdered spread quickly.

    This isn't proof that they were murdered, or if they were who was responsible - but the rumours began before Henry VII took the throne.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Edward V wasn't the King of England at the time he disappeared. He was merely the eldest bastard son of the brother of the reigning monarch. People did notice they weren't in the Tower of London in 1483, but that doesn't mean they were murdered then. They may have simply been moved out of the Tower to a different royal residence (probably somewhere in Yorkshire, where Richard could be more confident that the locals were loyal to him; he wasn't popular in the south as he'd spent most of his adult life governing the northern marches). And that might also explain the persistent rumours during Henry VII's reign that the Duke of York (the younger of the two princes) had escaped being murdered - at least until the failure of Perkin Warbeck's rebellion. Easier to escape from an ordinary castle.

    It's impossible to say who killed the two princes, hundreds of years later, but it seems more likely to have been Henry VII (or rather, his minions) than Richard. He was the one who re-legitimated them, after all; he had a better motive.

    The Crowland Chronicle (the main historical source for the rumours about Richard killing the princes in 1483) was written after the Battle of Bosworth and is very heavily biased against Richard.
  • This is all a bit off-thread, I guess, but IIRC the late Josephine Tey wrote a book (novel?) more-or-less exonerating Richard III.

    I suppose that, one day (if the World survives), history will recall The Mad Mophead as either the Saviour of England, or the Destroyer of Europe...
  • I suppose that, one day (if the World survives), history will recall The Mad Mophead as either the Saviour of England, or the Destroyer of Europe...

    The Brexiteers dream that he could be both.
  • Maybe he'll destroy England and save Europe.
  • Pangolin GuerrePangolin Guerre Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    H8... PR... That codpiece! Good Lord, his legs astride... what a... king!
  • I've never understood why Henry VIII often tops the poll of favourite English monarchs. He was a murderous bastard, lecherous beyond belief and all-round Bad King.

    Because he's the one they've heard of...
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    ... I suppose that, one day (if the World survives), history will recall The Mad Mophead as either the Saviour of England, or the Destroyer of Europe. ...
    In 50 years time (if the World survives) he'll be just another forgotten mediocrity, he, and the state he purported to serve as unremembered as some political bit-player in Austria-Hungary.
  • He is a turd. A vacuum on legs
    Half a million lives are not available for sacrifice to his ego
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    And then there's Thomas More, the supposed saint who had not one but two personal torture chambers in his private residence (one inside the house, the other in his garden for use in fine weather), and who, when he couldn't persuade a heretic to recant, always made a point of attending the burning.

    He's an entrant in this year's Lent Madness, and won his first round. His fans are taking "A Man for All Seasons," including the dialogue, as holy writ, and dismissing the facts as Hilary Mantel's fictional inventions. Gaaah...
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited March 2020
    The gods - those capricious and spiteful deities of the ancients - are just, in that they have visited Johnson with a genuine and not just manufactured national crisis. They always had it in for hubris.
  • Firenze wrote: »
    The gods - those capricious and spiteful deities of the ancients - are just, in that they have visited Johnson with a genuine and not just manufactured national crisis. They always had it in for hubris.

    It would be interesting to know what (if anything) is going on inside his head right now. Thanks to all the bullshitting over Brexit he, in my view, lied and blustered his way into 10 Downing Street, propelling himself into power by schmoozing rich chums and exploiting populist fears and racism . I try not to be vindictive but if he loses a few hours sleep over this, I really have no problem with that at all.

    And I don't know if it's true, because Downing Street have neither denied or affirmed it, and he himself evaded the accusation when raised; but allegedly one of the most recent of his Prime Ministerly gaffs was his suggestion to the CEOs of the manufacturing companies who could turn production over to ventilators, that they could call it 'Operation Last Gasp'.
  • FirenzeFirenze Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    John Crace's take

    I try to avoid the sight BoJo, but such glimpses as I do catch do not suggest a man sleeping soundly o' nights.
  • This Bible verse comes to mind:

    Daniel 5:27

    [Tekel] Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting.


    Another 'party guy' king, IIRC...
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Watching his press conference is depressing.

    I think he hopes he can erect a quick and simple Somebody Else's Problem Field over the issue and, true to the spirit of private enterprise, is scanning the press pool to see if anybody has the required watch battery.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Watching his press conference is depressing.

    I think he hopes he can erect a quick and simple Somebody Else's Problem Field

    He thought he was Churchill, but it turns out he was only Mr Micawber.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    Yes. Watching that, I also thought of the Churchill association and how poorly he matches up to his alter ego in real life. There's a lesson for us all in there somewhere.
  • He might be a more effective Churchill if he had a competent Attlee running the country while he does the PR.
  • He might be a more effective Churchill if he had a competent Attlee running the country while he does the PR.

    Yes. Bring Starmer into govt.
  • Could we not just persuade him to lay him doon in a Ditch, and dee?
    :naughty:

    O, and have Starmer in government...
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Yes. Watching that, I also thought of the Churchill association and how poorly he matches up to his alter ego in real life. There's a lesson for us all in there somewhere.

    Alternatively it depends on which part of Churchill's career we focus on. "The Bengal Famine -- but for the UK" is certainly a take.
  • Eutychus wrote: »
    Yes. Watching that, I also thought of the Churchill association and how poorly he matches up to his alter ego in real life. There's a lesson for us all in there somewhere.

    Alternatively it depends on which part of Churchill's career we focus on. "The Bengal Famine -- but for the UK" is certainly a take.

    Antipodeans would point to Gallipoli and Canadians to Vimy Ridge and Dieppe. Churchill isn't loved in Wales by any means. Boris by comparison is merely screwing things up for c.95% of the UK population.
  • Doesn't he look tired?
  • Wonder if he's got a dry cough? And a fever?
    :naughty:

    I'm not surprised he looks tired, though. Why, he's having to wo*k at least 2 or 3 hours each day...
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Never mind, Dominic Cummings is in charge.
  • Why does that NOT reassure me?
    :scream:
  • Mr Dragon was not very complimentary about his 'performance' tonight when he collected me from work.
  • CameronCameron Shipmate
    Doc Tor wrote: »
    Doesn't he look tired?
    Wonder if he's got a dry cough? And a fever?
    :naughty:

    I'm not surprised he looks tired, though. Why, he's having to wo*k at least 2 or 3 hours each day...

    I think @Doc Tor was making a Dr Who reference... (4 minute youtube clip)



  • +1 internets to @Cameron
  • :blush:

    O. Sorry - that went completely over my head... :
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    Cameron wrote: »
    I think @Doc Tor was making a Dr Who reference... (4 minute youtube clip)
    ...which was itself a reference to the downfall of Maggie Thatcher...

  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Jane R wrote: »
    Cameron wrote: »
    I think "Doc Tor" was making a Dr Who reference...
    ...which was itself a reference to the downfall of Maggie Thatcher...
    I think there was a feeling that Tony Blair was beginning to look tired at the time.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    Can be applied to any Prime Minister. It usually takes them longer than eight months to start looking tired though.
  • In Boris' case it is harder to tell which end of the day tired he is - he's always looked a bit 'got up and flung on his suit'.
  • Frankly, I wouldn’t care if he looked like a mud soaked Yorkshire terrier dragged backward through a hedge, with a tin can for a heart - were he competent and to be trusted to act in the interest of the whole population.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    But he does look like that :grimace:

    I agree about the competence and trustworthiness...
  • Jane R wrote: »
    Can be applied to any Prime Minister. It usually takes them longer than eight months to start looking tired though.

    Boris looked tired after no more than a couple of weeks in the job; he appears to have aged at least a year for each month in office. Between Brexit, Coronavirus, divorce proceedings and impending fatherhood he’s got a lot on his plate.
  • Apart from the coronavirus, the rest is his own fault.
  • Yesterday Mr Johnson was asked about mother's day.

    Having appropriately explained the advice about taking care (especially for older people who should be isolated for their own safety) he then finished with these words:

    It was suggested to me that is was a slightly stupid question from the reporter. It wasn't. This is a failure of leadership by Johnson. This is what he should have said:
    It is very sad but I will not be able to see my mother this year on Mother's Day. That's because I want to be able to see her next year.

    AFZ
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    He seems to really struggle with just being clear and unambiguous - I suspect that’s an occupational hazard of politics. But at least he is communicating better than Trump.
  • Ah, that's what a sensible leader would have said.

    Which In Our Case We Have Not Got...
  • Ah, that's what a sensible leader would have said.

    Which In Our Case We Have Not Got...

    Just think how powerful it could be...
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Let's hope he's not 'Tired and emotional'.
  • Hmm. That might at least show that he's human, rather than the Evil Alien Overlord I believe him to be.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    He's not the Evil Alien Overlord It's He Who Must Not Be Named (initials D - C - let him that readeth understand). Must stop now before I'm struch by lightning.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    O - do you mean Dread Cthulhu...??

    Certainly, those look like tentacles, rather than locks of human hair.

    Er...what's that eldritch slithering noise coming up behind me....??
    :scream:
  • O - do you mean Dread Cthulhu...??

    Certainly, those look like tentacles, rather than locks of human hair.

    Er...what's that eldritch slithering noise coming up behind me....??
    :scream:

    Oh, I thought we were talking the previous PM but one.
  • :lol:

    No tentacles, but just as slimy...
  • Yesterday Mr Johnson was asked about mother's day.

    Having appropriately explained the advice about taking care (especially for older people who should be isolated for their own safety) he then finished with these words:

    It was suggested to me that is was a slightly stupid question from the reporter. It wasn't. This is a failure of leadership by Johnson. This is what he should have said:
    It is very sad but I will not be able to see my mother this year on Mother's Day. That's because I want to be able to see her next year.

    AFZ

    Well, come the second Sunday in May we know what he hopes and expects to be doing. What he has been doing today, Mothering Sunday, may be entirely different.
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