Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson

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  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    That link is broken Try this this.
  • Yes, that works - thank you.

    Well, it's all down to cost, so no surprise there...
    :disappointed:
  • TelepathTelepath Shipmate
    So 900 NHS frontline staff have been tested by now.

    That's not all of them, in case it wasn't obvious.

    Tomorrow a district nurse will come and visit the Telemum. I wish this didn't make me so afraid.
  • TelepathTelepath Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    Eight out of 12 COVID-19 EU health security meetings attended by British officials. Four of those meetings discussed procurement.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/30/uk-discussed-joint-eu-plan-to-buy-covid-19-medical-supplies-say-officials

    Fucking fuck. Fucking shitting fucking fuckity fucking fuck fuck FUCK.
  • Just disgraceful.
  • Doc Tor wrote: »
    I know this is Hell but even so we're talking about a man with an infection for which there is no magic cure whose other half is pregnant, and who is trying to do a job which is the ultimate poisoned chalice.

    Yes, we are. Are you going to concede the point made earlier about respirators, or does your cheerleeding for this incompetent spiv with blood on his hands know no bounds?

    Eh? I haven't said anything about respirators, nor am I likely to knowing nothing about them other than that the largest number in the UK is those in use by the fire service.

    I refer you to your post on the 28th, where you were clearly discussing the availability of respirators in incredulous tones.
  • I didn't post on this thread on Saturday.

    On another thread (F**k this f**king virus ...) I remarked that if the stories about the government cocking-up ventilator supply were true they should be made public, because provable evidence of that wouldn't be point-scoring but a necessary holding to account.

  • TelepathTelepath Shipmate
    TheOrganist, I shall be as clear as May:

    This is not now, nor has it ever been, about point-scoring for me. Always, at all times, from before the pandemic began, it has always been about our lives. I do not perceive this as a game.

    That the government would do something like this has exceeded my worst fears.
  • @Telepath We are in agreement on this one.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    I still reckon it’s more cockup than conspiracy - they are doing 57 million things at once. somebody forgot that that communication needed to go there by that time - possibly everybody thought somebody else was doing that bit.

    E.g Health thought the FCO would do it, they thought the Brexit dept would do it who thought Health would do it.
  • I still reckon it’s more cockup than conspiracy - they are doing 57 million things at once. somebody forgot that that communication needed to go there by that time - possibly everybody thought somebody else was doing that bit.

    E.g Health thought the FCO would do it, they thought the Brexit dept would do it who thought Health would do it.

    Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and any such distinction matters only in so far as it determines whether the fuckers should be prosecuted for corporate manslaughter once they're removed from office.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    One of the better graphs doing the rounds on social media at the moment is the one showing the exponential growth in experts on what should have been done to prevent this crisis.
  • I still reckon it’s more cockup than conspiracy - they are doing 57 million things at once. somebody forgot that that communication needed to go there by that time - possibly everybody thought somebody else was doing that bit.

    E.g Health thought the FCO would do it, they thought the Brexit dept would do it who thought Health would do it.

    Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and any such distinction matters only in so far as it determines whether the fuckers should be prosecuted for corporate manslaughter once they're removed from office.

    The problem at the moment is that it's seemingly accepted that the government tells massive lives and the only time this ever matters is in the intramural struggle for whom in the ruling party should be on top.
  • I still reckon it’s more cockup than conspiracy - they are doing 57 million things at once. somebody forgot that that communication needed to go there by that time - possibly everybody thought somebody else was doing that bit.

    E.g Health thought the FCO would do it, they thought the Brexit dept would do it who thought Health would do it.

    Sufficiently advanced incompetence is indistinguishable from malice, and any such distinction matters only in so far as it determines whether the fuckers should be prosecuted for corporate manslaughter once they're removed from office.

    The problem at the moment is that it's seemingly accepted that the government tells massive lives and the only time this ever matters is in the intramural struggle for whom in the ruling party should be on top.

    That's been the problem for at least the last 5 years, maybe longer. It's the peril of having a deeply partisan press and a supine broadcast media.
  • The latest government wheeze is to decide that a measure that will provide a basic, secure income to people who are struggling through the lack of a basic, secure income doesn't target those who need a basic, secure income.
  • The so-called help for the self employed? A travesty. You can't apply, you may be "invited" to apply by HMRC after self- assessment tax returns have been submitted and they've looked at your turnover and income for three years. If you became self-employed after 5th April 2019 you're not eligible.

    As my builder says, it won't help anyone.
  • I was thinking of the announcement this morning of the response to the call for a universal basic income during this emergency (which is, of course, a stupendously good idea anyway, especially now). But, the support for the self-employed is also something that's only going to help a few of those who need it.
  • I was thinking of the announcement this morning of the response to the call for a universal basic income during this emergency (which is, of course, a stupendously good idea anyway, especially now).

    I'd be wary of UBI without universal basic services, otherwise it ends up becoming an easy way for the state to wash its hands of you.
  • EutychusEutychus Shipmate
    But, the support for the self-employed is also something that's only going to help a few of those who need it.
    I just got an nth email from our accountant about French support for the self-employed. It seems almost tailor-made to miss me out.
  • A wise accountant I knew years ago said that a sensible personal tax regime should be able to be legibly printed on one side of A4: it would make evasion impossible, avoidance difficult, deductions for child maintenance easy, and be flexible in times of emergency. She even drew up a detailed paper with worked examples which a team from the Inland Revenue said would work - a view shared by senior tax accountants. Trouble was, they reckoned it would remove roughly 75% of the work of personal accountants.
  • I was thinking of the announcement this morning of the response to the call for a universal basic income during this emergency (which is, of course, a stupendously good idea anyway, especially now).

    I'd be wary of UBI without universal basic services, otherwise it ends up becoming an easy way for the state to wash its hands of you.
    Of course, a properly implemented UBI is part of a wholescale reform of the welfare and care systems - UBI doesn't, for example, replace additional welfare for those with medical conditions needing extra support. But, we can probably discuss the benefits and implementation of UBI in Purgatory.

    The particular petition, however, wasn't calling for a proper implementation of UBI, rather an emergency measure to get money to those most in need at this time - employed and self-employed people who are struggling at this time.

  • Eutychus wrote: »
    But, the support for the self-employed is also something that's only going to help a few of those who need it.
    I just got an nth email from our accountant about French support for the self-employed. It seems almost tailor-made to miss me out.
    A universal feature of any scheme that aims to limit benefits to those who "deserve them" is that there are more cracks to fall through than you can poke a stick at. That's as true of support to those out of work during this crisis as it is of more regular welfare benefits. It doesn't surprise me that the UK isn't the only one where the government can put together an aid scheme that has more gaps than a wall built by an entire ranch full of cowboys.
  • I've always been puzzled when people speak of a "safety net" of benefits: nets have far more hole than solid structure.
  • Jane RJane R Shipmate
    But the holes in the net are supposed to be smaller than the things that you want to keep safe...
  • I've always been puzzled when people speak of a "safety net" of benefits: nets have far more hole than solid structure.
    I'll tell you what. Try your hand at the trapeze with a safety net with a mesh size similar to your body. If you fall off you'll either have the delight of crashing straight into the ground, or having a limb sliced off by one of the cords in the net as you go past before crashing into the ground.

    The magic of a safety net is that it catches the falling trapeze artist (or probably far less artistic Organist) with a very small amount of actual material. But, try to get away with anything less than that and it becomes worthless.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    Dominic Cummings has caught it. That's a disadvantage of being too close to the Prime Minister.
    Prince Charles has recovered. Without going into Aberdeen Royal Infirmary.
  • TheOrganistTheOrganist Shipmate
    edited March 2020
    I've always been puzzled when people speak of a "safety net" of benefits: nets have far more hole than solid structure.
    I'll tell you what. Try your hand at the trapeze with a safety net with a mesh size similar to your body. If you fall off you'll either have the delight of crashing straight into the ground, or having a limb sliced off by one of the cords in the net as you go past before crashing into the ground.

    The magic of a safety net is that it catches the falling trapeze artist (or probably far less artistic Organist) with a very small amount of actual material. But, try to get away with anything less than that and it becomes worthless.

    You'd never get me near a trapeze: my vertigo is so bad I can't even watch trapeze artistes on screen.

    Seriously, I was making a puerile attempt to highlight that the so-called safety net has large holes and far too many people fall through them. Maybe what we should be aiming for isn't a safety net but a safety blanket.
  • A safety blanket is used to keep someone warm after they've been injured. A safety net catches people as they fall so that they don't get injured in the first place. I'd much prefer a safety net that catches everyone, with a safety blanket held in reserve.

    I agree people fall through the current safety nets. That means we need better safety nets not throw out the entire idea of a safety net. Plus, our welfare systems shouldn't be just about catching people, they also need to help people get back up where possible. The system in the UK wasn't perfect, but it's been systematically dismantled by a decade of Tory mis-management and economic destruction to the point where it fails far too often. And, now when the need is greatest they've deliberately and callously kicked those in the greatest need, again. We don't need bail-outs of businesses to save the profits of the rich, we need support for those who were already close to destitution and now have nothing.
  • I'd prefer just making sure the tight rope isn't so damn far off the floor that falling is potentially fatal.
  • JonahManJonahMan Shipmate
    The problem is that recent UK governments have been more concerned to ensure that anyone who doesn't 'deserve' help doesn't get it than to ensure that all those who need help, get it.
  • The problem being a misconception on behalf of the idiots in charge ... everyone deserves help.
  • W HyattW Hyatt Shipmate
    I did read some article a while ago that described the perverse notion (among prosperity gospel types?) that giving someone help just makes it harder for them to have the faith they need. What a convenient excuse for not helping!
  • Jesus did say the gate was narrow, and that it was harder to enter than a camel passing through the eye of a needle. That must be why He kept on going around and helping people, just to make it hard for them to have faith.
  • A safety blanket is used to keep someone warm after they've been injured. A safety net catches people as they fall so that they don't get injured in the first place. I'd much prefer a safety net that catches everyone, with a safety blanket held in reserve.

    I agree people fall through the current safety nets. That means we need better safety nets not throw out the entire idea of a safety net. Plus, our welfare systems shouldn't be just about catching people, they also need to help people get back up where possible. The system in the UK wasn't perfect, but it's been systematically dismantled by a decade of Tory mis-management and economic destruction to the point where it fails far too often. And, now when the need is greatest they've deliberately and callously kicked those in the greatest need, again. We don't need bail-outs of businesses to save the profits of the rich, we need support for those who were already close to destitution and now have nothing.

    I was thinking of the sort of thing fire-fighters use to cushion the fall of people falling/jumping from a height - can't find the technical term, sorry :anguished:
  • RossweisseRossweisse Hell Host, 8th Day Host
    Well, I looked all through Wikipedia's list of firefighting equipment and couldn't find anything resembling a large circular net-like object. Perhaps someone else will be more thorough!
  • I've spent too much time hill walking; either a survival bag or survival/safety blanket (both terms get used) is essential kit in your backpack. So, that's what came to my mind - and, of course, the same silver foil things tend to make an appearance at the end of marathons and other places where keeping someone warm is essential. I just did an online search and it appears safety blanket also gets use for what I'd call a fire blanket, kitchen equipment that you can use to cover a pan of fat if it catches fire.

    The big net thing that I've only ever seen on TV that fire fighters use to catch someone who has to jump from a window. Well, that I'd call a safety net.
  • I've spent too much time hill walking; either a survival bag or survival/safety blanket (both terms get used) is essential kit in your backpack. So, that's what came to my mind - and, of course, the same silver foil things tend to make an appearance at the end of marathons and other places where keeping someone warm is essential. I just did an online search and it appears safety blanket also gets use for what I'd call a fire blanket, kitchen equipment that you can use to cover a pan of fat if it catches fire.

    The big net thing that I've only ever seen on TV that fire fighters use to catch someone who has to jump from a window. Well, that I'd call a safety net.

    The foil thing I grew up calling a "space blanket".
  • JonahMan wrote: »
    The problem is that recent UK governments have been more concerned to ensure that anyone who doesn't 'deserve' help doesn't get it than to ensure that all those who need help, get it.

    The argument here always seems to come down to a version of Moral Hazard. The danger here comes from a grain of truth (moral hazard is real) extrapolated beyond all logic and reason. The most effective lies always contain a grain a truth.

    They are able to get away with this because they have convinced a large enough proportion of the electorate that it doesn't apply to them.

    AFZ

    Much longer exploration of this with respect to asylum, welfare and healthcare here:
    https://alienfromzog.blogspot.com/2015/06/immoral-hazard.html
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host, 8th Day Host
    A safety blanket is used to keep someone warm after they've been injured. A safety net catches people as they fall so that they don't get injured in the first place. I'd much prefer a safety net that catches everyone, with a safety blanket held in reserve.

    I agree people fall through the current safety nets. That means we need better safety nets not throw out the entire idea of a safety net. Plus, our welfare systems shouldn't be just about catching people, they also need to help people get back up where possible. The system in the UK wasn't perfect, but it's been systematically dismantled by a decade of Tory mis-management and economic destruction to the point where it fails far too often. And, now when the need is greatest they've deliberately and callously kicked those in the greatest need, again. We don't need bail-outs of businesses to save the profits of the rich, we need support for those who were already close to destitution and now have nothing.

    I was thinking of the sort of thing fire-fighters use to cushion the fall of people falling/jumping from a height - can't find the technical term, sorry :anguished:

    Here we are. Apparently it’s a life net, also known as a Browder Life Safety Net or jumping sheet. (Wikipedia) It seems to have fallen out of use as a fire rescue method in the 1980s. It was better than nothing, but very much a rescue of last resort, and many were killed or injured in using it.
  • EirenistEirenist Shipmate
    'PM takes charge of drive for virus tests', says the lead headline in today's Times. Presumably someone expects us all to find that reassuring.
  • He downloaded Grand Theft Auto while in isolation, and that now makes him an expert driver.
  • A self employed friend of mine has, within the last three years, claimed the carer's allowance for looking after his seriously ill wife. Therefore he can get the self employed benefit now.
  • Eirenist wrote: »
    'PM takes charge of drive for virus tests', says the lead headline in today's Times. Presumably someone expects us all to find that reassuring.

    Well, he'll be ramping up testing, and ramping up orders for PPE, and ramping up orders for ventilators, and ramping up lies about all of these.
  • 'PM takes charge' is another of those oxymorons that seem to be cropping up frequently during these Dark Days.
  • DafydDafyd Shipmate
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'PM takes charge of drive for virus tests', says the lead headline in today's Times. Presumably someone expects us all to find that reassuring.
    From which one would infer he wasn't in charge of that previously, raising the question of why he wasn't.

  • Dafyd wrote: »
    Eirenist wrote: »
    'PM takes charge of drive for virus tests', says the lead headline in today's Times. Presumably someone expects us all to find that reassuring.
    From which one would infer he wasn't in charge of that previously, raising the question of why he wasn't.

    That sound you heard in the background was Matt Hancock being shoved in front of a bus.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 2020
    O, poor chap - and he being so unwell, and all...

    Would that be the Big Bus with all that guff about extra £££ for the NHS scrawled along its side?
  • It must be a very peculiar variation of Covid-19 that leaves Johnson allegedly thoroughly capable of leading the country through this crisis and appearing on screen regularly and inspiringly to cabinet colleagues; yet somehow incapable of appearing on screen for press questioning or to offer reassuring Churchillian 'tally-ho's' to the people he is supposedly leading.

    During the time Johnson has had his very idiosyncratic dose of the lurgy, Charles has been diagnosed, done his isolation bit, and come out the other end, and people very poorly indeed on ventilators at hospital have returned home to get back to the gardening.

    If he's so sick he can't be presented to the public, even for a few moments to 'lead' from the front, then who actually is doing the leading? And if he's not so sick, then presumably he's home, hiding under the duvet? It really can't be both.

    The only other alternative is that he is genuinely extremely ill and the government don't want the country to know for some reason.
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    The only other alternative is that he is genuinely extremely ill and the government don't want the country to know for some reason.

    Perhaps they think the cheers and dancing in the streets would be unseemly at this time?
  • Anselmina wrote: »
    If he's so sick he can't be presented to the public, even for a few moments to 'lead' from the front, then who actually is doing the leading? And if he's not so sick, then presumably he's home, hiding under the duvet? It really can't be both.

    The only other alternative is that he is genuinely extremely ill and the government don't want the country to know for some reason.

    I presume he's being more sick than he is for deniability reasons -- and that this is evident to you and me but not the fearless seekers of truth in the press.
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