FWIW the Salvation Army has also been providing food. However, the hauliers' association takes the view that the government, not charity, should have taken responsibility for feeding them.
I’m not saying churches couldn’t do more, but every Gurdwara, AIUI, has a large scale kitchen or Langar for the regular provision of food for all comers. These will have all the statutory checks in place around hygiene etc. This is much less common in churches.
Our local churches are heavily involved in the foodbank (and other things that I will not bore you with).
As does my church, and the foodbank has a religious adjacent name and gets a reasonable amount of publicity based on how many times the local MP wants to photo op in it.
Though the program that feeds local migrants waiting for decisions from the HO is (as far as I can tell) run on a voluntary basis by a local socialist boxing club.
those lorry drivers may be uncomfortable (and they have my sympathy, even the ones that voted for Brexit) but they are not actually in danger of starving to death.
Large numbers of them are from the EU and trying to get back home to their families for Christmas.
Many things that Christians do don’t get much publicity. So there may be churches from the area helping.
As a chef I have to say that as mentioned most churches will not have the facilities, not only to produce enough food but in a way that complies with laws and regulations. I guess they could get a catering company to produce stuff.
I agree it at least partly the government who should take responsibility for them.
I don't live in that part of Kent where the lorries are at present waiting, but it may well be that local churches are helping - albeit on a smaller scale than that achieved by the Sikhs.
As others have said, what churches do is usually only spotlighted if their MP wants a photo-op...Our Place's local lad is well-known for that.
BTW, the sheer number of lorries and drivers is a logistical nightmare, and it's not necessarily that easy to actually reach them - even the German ambassador wasn't able to get into Manston Farage-Garage to speak to his compatriots.
Latest news is that the queue is slowly beginning to move, but it'll take several days to clear.
There's some self-help going on - Hungarians have been taking food and water to their compatriots, and there was a delightful pic on one news item of two Turkish drivers sitting down at a picnic table to what looked like quite an appetising breakfast (one of the guys was busy pouring out the coffee). They even had a lovely tasselled table-cloth.
I think they're biting the bullet, Boris looking over his shoulder to see if Farage is commenting. It's a bit like divorce, sign the papers, then spend 20 years bickering.
It seems like a bit of a weird conspiracy theory to suggest that Christians are actually doing just as much as Sikhs (when let's be honest, the SA are probably just making sure they don't accidentally feed a gay or trans person) but the media just isn't interested. Of course many churches do lots of good things inc running food banks (though as a food bank user, I am never made to feel comfortable or welcome im a church food bank but am in the one run in council premises...let's just say that only church food banks have ever interrogated me as to my gender). Sikhs haven't asked for publicity here, they've just seen a need and responded to it. If Christians in Coventry were supplying the lorry drivers with hundreds of meals, people would be commenting on it. "The drivers aren't starving to death so their hunger doesn't matter" is too morally bankrupt a statement to respond to politely, so I won't.
Why does "well we don't have the premises" not inspire churches to, er, get the premises to respond to national crises like this? This will not be the last one, and Brexit will cause more. I know of many, many large churches in East Sussex with large kitchen facilities, many very close to the Kent border. It is simply not true that all churches are tiny stone Saxon buildings in the middle of nowhere with a kettle and tub of Clipper instant coffee - I know of many with sophisticated hospitality provision available (complete with HSE and food hygiene certification, and I know because I have attended these churches!), and many not far from Kent. If nothing else, I would hope that this at least inspires more churches to do this....? Also, where is Welby? Probably in a zoom conference on corporate strategy for Messy Church, but he could at least show his face.
This "I'm alright Jack" attitude is particularly common in wealthy, Conservative churches and it will destroy us. I'm just so angry that my Church is such a whitewashed sepulchre. These past four and a half years have made me feel utterly ashamed to be a British Christian. All we seem to produce is rotten, worm-ridden fruit - but hey, at least those worms have little union flags.
(There are of course churches in E Sussex, Kent, and further afield doing their best in the face of this - I know one in E Sussex in particular - and hope of course that many will step up to the task)
It seems like a bit of a weird conspiracy theory to suggest that Christians are actually doing just as much as Sikhs (when let's be honest, the SA are probably just making sure they don't accidentally feed a gay or trans person) but the media just isn't interested. Of course many churches do lots of good things inc running food banks (though as a food bank user, I am never made to feel comfortable or welcome im a church food bank but am in the one run in council premises...let's just say that only church food banks have ever interrogated me as to my gender). Sikhs haven't asked for publicity here, they've just seen a need and responded to it. If Christians in Coventry were supplying the lorry drivers with hundreds of meals, people would be commenting on it. "The drivers aren't starving to death so their hunger doesn't matter" is too morally bankrupt a statement to respond to politely, so I won't.
Why does "well we don't have the premises" not inspire churches to, er, get the premises to respond to national crises like this? This will not be the last one, and Brexit will cause more. I know of many, many large churches in East Sussex with large kitchen facilities, many very close to the Kent border. It is simply not true that all churches are tiny stone Saxon buildings in the middle of nowhere with a kettle and tub of Clipper instant coffee - I know of many with sophisticated hospitality provision available (complete with HSE and food hygiene certification, and I know because I have attended these churches!), and many not far from Kent. If nothing else, I would hope that this at least inspires more churches to do this....? Also, where is Welby? Probably in a zoom conference on corporate strategy for Messy Church, but he could at least show his face.
This "I'm alright Jack" attitude is particularly common in wealthy, Conservative churches and it will destroy us. I'm just so angry that my Church is such a whitewashed sepulchre. These past four and a half years have made me feel utterly ashamed to be a British Christian. All we seem to produce is rotten, worm-ridden fruit - but hey, at least those worms have little union flags.
Most churches I have been in do not have facilities at the level needed, not the members with the required knowledge to cook food safely. Son churches can. My church in London does a lot of things including providing food for people and DIY jobs as well as a maths group for those who need it among others.
Your picture of the church is skewed. Most churches do not have enough people to deal with what they are doing let alone add more. Those bigger churches fine.
Also what you seem to mean by the church is not what I mean.
There are indeed lots of big, empty, virtually unused churches in Kent (I know - I'm on the staff of one of them...).
If anyone would like to hand us the £50k or so we'd need in order to improve the facilities, and make better community use of the space, please let me know.
O, and please provide a few more willing helpers to put in the time (unpaid, of course) to run the new facilities.
It could - and perhaps should - be done, and maybe this is the way forward for some churches, at least - but where is the £££ to come from? The area is poor enough in all conscience...
It seems like a bit of a weird conspiracy theory to suggest that Christians are actually doing just as much as Sikhs (when let's be honest, the SA are probably just making sure they don't accidentally feed a gay or trans person) ...
This "I'm alright Jack" attitude is particularly common in wealthy, Conservative churches and it will destroy us. I'm just so angry that my Church is such a whitewashed sepulchre. These past four and a half years have made me feel utterly ashamed to be a British Christian. All we seem to produce is rotten, worm-ridden fruit - but hey, at least those worms have little union flags.
I think it's a great shame that you've got it in for the SA, and I'm sorry you're having a shit time in your current church. If you've got the bottle to be the youngest member of a dying denomination, I invite you to check out your local Methodists; I think we will neither offend you by excluding trans people or being wealthy. We are unlikely to be wealthy, numerous, skilled or young / mobile enough to be of much help to hungry lorry drivers, mind.
Surely it doesn’t matter who helps, so long as help is given. Nor does it matter who gets the credit. It’s not a competition, nor about publicity, it’s about helping.
It will be a cold day in hell when I wish the Sally Army well. Their homophobia is a matter of consistent record, and sufficient for me to find other groups to support.
Without wishing to derail the thread, could you please provide a link to a record of the SA's homophobia? I don't disbelieve you (or Pomona), but I didn't realise that this was an issue.
The Grauniad and other news outlets have hints of impending doom, sorry, I mean, an inpending deal, but the media gathering of today, Christmas Eve, 8am GMT, seems to have been moved to later times.
Interesting. I'm wondering how they are going about the Norn Irn/Republic of Ireland border problem, which to me seems one of the essential points of it all.
Though he tends to be furious about everything just for the sake of being furious, so that's a very poor barometer. Though, if he was happy with the deal that would indicate just how bad it is. Not that any deal which leaves the UK without being an EU member nation is by definition a bad deal ... it was all a matter of whether catastrophic or merely disastrous.
Yes. We were faced with totally utter catastrophic no deal. It's looking like there'll be some form of deal that might drag things up towards the 'disastrous' position but may still be catastrophic. If the UK had managed to retain full membership of the Single Market and Customs Union then we might have even been looking at a bad deal.
Contrary to popular wisdom, any deal is better than no deal.
Kind of. I think Farage and others have proposed a few that are far far worse than No-deal to Europe (the being a backdoor for toxic chicken being an example). They [UKIP] are willfully being arses, but if Europe took that...
Kind of by definition all of the options have us paying for (and receiving) things we weren't too fussed for and not receiving (or paying for) things we are fussed about. Some of the initial options will have been worth less than no deal (in the eyes of Brexiteers, the imo rather good deal we had before being among them). But they had a good process for weeding them out.
But (and I accept that there is a bit of tautology), any deal that is a deal worth considering is a better than no deal.
The right-wing bog-papers such as the Daily Wail and the Daily Distress are full of triumph, but there are no reports yet of Sunlit Uplands or Unicorns being sighted.
Farage, in typical fashion, has declared that The War Is Over. Not sure what benighted planet he comes from, but I wish he'd go home...
If the news is to be believed and not just more teasing, congratulations are due to Boris Johnson for the crowning achievement of his political career: the first trade agreement in history which will make trade between the signatories more difficult and less free than it was before.
It reminds me of a bad marriage, intimacy and sex are replaced by politeness, and froideur, culminating in detailed texts to be signed. I suppose you can then find a new partner, well, we have Moldova.
Aha, it is done - breaking news now. Or as the Guardian with habitual gusto in typoes has it:
Here is the full statement from No 10.
Dead (sic!) is done. Everything that the British public was promised during the 2016 referendum and in the general election last year is delivered by this deal.{...]
Aha, it is done - breaking news now. Or as the Guardian with habitual gusto in typoes has it:
Here is the full statement from No 10.
Dead (sic!) is done. Everything that the British public was promised during the 2016 referendum and in the general election last year is delivered by this deal.{...]
"Everything that the British public was promised during the 2016 referendum and in the general election last year is delivered by this deal" that would be nothing then ....
We've managed to shoot ourselves in one foot, rather than blowing ourselves up at the waist. Oh hooray. We are still maiming ourselves for no meaningful gain. Everyone else knows that globalisation has happened - we'll probably get the memo in about 20 years.
It reminds me of a bad marriage, intimacy and sex are replaced by politeness, and froideur, culminating in detailed texts to be signed. I suppose you can then find a new partner, well, we have Moldova.
After January 20, Donald J. Trump will be available to provide expert advice ...
Has anybody seen a summary of the essential points yet?
One negative aspect, in my opinion, is this here, in terms of academic exchange (from the Guardian); no idea why this should be of benefit to anyone, especially the rational thinking so much needed these days:
British students will no longer be able to participate in the Erasmus exchange programme under the Brexit deal agreed by Boris Johnson.
Speaking at a press conference after the deal was agreement, EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier said: “The British government decided not to participate in the Erasmus exchange programme.”
The UK government doesn't like Erasmus because it allows young people from elsewhere in Europe to study in the UK. That the scheme is reciprocal (so provides similar opportunities for UK students) seems to have escaped them - but perhaps they're under the impression that there's no benefit in spending time in different cultures and building networks internationally? It's also good for British universities, enriching students who don't take advantage of these schemes. One of the big positives of EU membership was all the exchange and mobility schemes available, and the opportunities to build networks (not just Erasmus+, but also most of the EU research funding is heavily biased towards networking and mobility). The governments' xenophobia and racism has made UK universities and research institutions much less than they would otherwise be. But, second rate research and teaching at universities is obviously a fair price for a few less brown skins and odd accents on the streets of Little England.
The small-minded Little Englanderism of ending freedom of movement is what I am still finding it hardest to forgive my fellow citizens for. Don't like it? Don't go there. Oh and by the way, enjoy all the training you will finally have no choice but to do in order to fill all the vacancies your "hostile environment" has created, and you've always decided you were far too English to need. Fucking idiot narrow-minded cretins.
The small-minded Little Englanderism of ending freedom of movement is what I am still finding it hardest to forgive my fellow citizens for. Don't like it? Don't go there. Oh and by the way, enjoy all the training you will finally have no choice but to do in order to fill all the vacancies your "hostile environment" has created, and you've always decided you were far too English to need. Fucking idiot narrow-minded cretins.
Training? most of the "opportunities" created by this clustershambles will involve getting up at 4AM to clean offices (those that are left) or pick vegetables, come rain or shine.
Comments
This just moves the question back one level.
As does my church, and the foodbank has a religious adjacent name and gets a reasonable amount of publicity based on how many times the local MP wants to photo op in it.
Though the program that feeds local migrants waiting for decisions from the HO is (as far as I can tell) run on a voluntary basis by a local socialist boxing club.
Large numbers of them are from the EU and trying to get back home to their families for Christmas.
As a chef I have to say that as mentioned most churches will not have the facilities, not only to produce enough food but in a way that complies with laws and regulations. I guess they could get a catering company to produce stuff.
I agree it at least partly the government who should take responsibility for them.
As others have said, what churches do is usually only spotlighted if their MP wants a photo-op...Our Place's local lad is well-known for that.
Latest news is that the queue is slowly beginning to move, but it'll take several days to clear.
There's some self-help going on - Hungarians have been taking food and water to their compatriots, and there was a delightful pic on one news item of two Turkish drivers sitting down at a picnic table to what looked like quite an appetising breakfast (one of the guys was busy pouring out the coffee). They even had a lovely tasselled table-cloth.
Quite possibly - for a view from the other side, Die Welt reports that it is negotiations are still a "tug of war".
UK and EU haggling (...over fish and level playing field)
Does not sound much like progress.
Why does "well we don't have the premises" not inspire churches to, er, get the premises to respond to national crises like this? This will not be the last one, and Brexit will cause more. I know of many, many large churches in East Sussex with large kitchen facilities, many very close to the Kent border. It is simply not true that all churches are tiny stone Saxon buildings in the middle of nowhere with a kettle and tub of Clipper instant coffee - I know of many with sophisticated hospitality provision available (complete with HSE and food hygiene certification, and I know because I have attended these churches!), and many not far from Kent. If nothing else, I would hope that this at least inspires more churches to do this....? Also, where is Welby? Probably in a zoom conference on corporate strategy for Messy Church, but he could at least show his face.
This "I'm alright Jack" attitude is particularly common in wealthy, Conservative churches and it will destroy us. I'm just so angry that my Church is such a whitewashed sepulchre. These past four and a half years have made me feel utterly ashamed to be a British Christian. All we seem to produce is rotten, worm-ridden fruit - but hey, at least those worms have little union flags.
Most churches I have been in do not have facilities at the level needed, not the members with the required knowledge to cook food safely. Son churches can. My church in London does a lot of things including providing food for people and DIY jobs as well as a maths group for those who need it among others.
Your picture of the church is skewed. Most churches do not have enough people to deal with what they are doing let alone add more. Those bigger churches fine.
Also what you seem to mean by the church is not what I mean.
If anyone would like to hand us the £50k or so we'd need in order to improve the facilities, and make better community use of the space, please let me know.
O, and please provide a few more willing helpers to put in the time (unpaid, of course) to run the new facilities.
It could - and perhaps should - be done, and maybe this is the way forward for some churches, at least - but where is the £££ to come from? The area is poor enough in all conscience...
I think it's a great shame that you've got it in for the SA, and I'm sorry you're having a shit time in your current church. If you've got the bottle to be the youngest member of a dying denomination, I invite you to check out your local Methodists; I think we will neither offend you by excluding trans people or being wealthy. We are unlikely to be wealthy, numerous, skilled or young / mobile enough to be of much help to hungry lorry drivers, mind.
TBTG for the Sikhs, the Sally Army, the coastguards, the Hungarians, and everyone else...
Interesting. I'm wondering how they are going about the Norn Irn/Republic of Ireland border problem, which to me seems one of the essential points of it all.
Kind of. I think Farage and others have proposed a few that are far far worse than No-deal to Europe (the being a backdoor for toxic chicken being an example). They [UKIP] are willfully being arses, but if Europe took that...
Kind of by definition all of the options have us paying for (and receiving) things we weren't too fussed for and not receiving (or paying for) things we are fussed about. Some of the initial options will have been worth less than no deal (in the eyes of Brexiteers, the imo rather good deal we had before being among them). But they had a good process for weeding them out.
But (and I accept that there is a bit of tautology), any deal that is a deal worth considering is a better than no deal.
Farage, in typical fashion, has declared that The War Is Over. Not sure what benighted planet he comes from, but I wish he'd go home...
https://theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/24/french-firefighters-arrive-in-dover-with-10000-covid-tests-for-lorry-drivers
You couldn't make it up.
After January 20, Donald J. Trump will be available to provide expert advice ...
One negative aspect, in my opinion, is this here, in terms of academic exchange (from the Guardian); no idea why this should be of benefit to anyone, especially the rational thinking so much needed these days:
*wicked*
Training? most of the "opportunities" created by this clustershambles will involve getting up at 4AM to clean offices (those that are left) or pick vegetables, come rain or shine.