Less piously, I was always impressed by the way a Texan colleague could effortlessly say "Sh-i-i-t" in three syllables when the rest of us could only manage one.
When you hear it that way, it means you stepped in some pretty deep doodoo.
While we're adding syllable's may I be allowed to digress to antipodean accents and note that I have come across both Kiwis and Aussies who say words like "known" and "grown' in two syllables - knowen and growen.
While we're adding syllable's may I be allowed to digress to antipodean accents and note that I have come across both Kiwis and Aussies who say words like "known" and "grown' in two syllables - knowen and growen.
I dislike this quirk of pronunciation which in my observation occurs in Queenslanders rather than in other states of Oz. They also tend to pronounce flower as two distinct syllables (flow-wer). Many people think Australians all sound alike, but as a linguist I can assure them that there are distinct regional differences.
While we're adding syllable's may I be allowed to digress to antipodean accents and note that I have come across both Kiwis and Aussies who say words like "known" and "grown' in two syllables - knowen and growen.
Flour/Flower contain a diphthong which depending on how you perceive the sound might sound like two syllables as there's movement within the sound. If you did emphasise the bilabial at the end of 'ou' and produced a distinct schwa following it then you would reach a sound that is effectively disyllabic.
Some UK dialects tend to flatten this sound to "ah" - hence cockney "Lavvly Flahs". Other diphthongs too - my Bedfordshire mother (family with London roots so it could be either) would refer to electrical wahs and gas fahs.
Flour/Flower contain a diphthong which depending on how you perceive the sound might sound like two syllables as there's movement within the sound.
Depending on accent or pronunciation, flower, flour, shower, hour and our contain triphthongs, the vowel sequence being ah-oo-uh(r). Trained singers are taught to be conscious of this, as dealing appropriately with diphthongs and triphthongs has a effect on how the words sound and are understood when sung.
Everyone I know in Tasmania says flour, rather than flow- wer which places emphasis on the second syllable
I've never met anyone who placed the emphasis on the second syllable in flower.
In standard English, the difference between a flower and a flow-wer (probably the punchline of a joke about rivers) is the pronunciation of the first vowel. It's an /aʊ/ diphthong in the plant, and an /oʊ/ diphthong in the river. But the emphasis is the same, and in neither case is the trailing r rhotic.
The single-syllable people are, I think, pronouncing flower (and/or flour) with a triphthong.
(Do people think flour and flower are homophones?)
Everyone I know in Tasmania says flour, rather than flow- wer which places emphasis on the second syllable
I've never met anyone who placed the emphasis on the second syllable in flower.
In standard English, the difference between a flower and a flow-wer (probably the punchline of a joke about rivers) is the pronunciation of the first vowel. It's an /aʊ/ diphthong in the plant, and an /oʊ/ diphthong in the river. But the emphasis is the same, and in neither case is the trailing r rhotic.
The single-syllable people are, I think, pronouncing flower (and/or flour) with a triphthong.
(Do people think flour and flower are homophones?)
In my experience of Canadian English, flour and flower are homophones.
The similarity is behind this little joke in the movie "Stranger than Fiction", where a man gives a woman who owns a bakery a present: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74S5aT3_AfM
Listening to the trump trial today, I heard a well educated American lady from the Caribbean refer to the floor, but it sounded (to me) like 'flo-or'. That was new to me.
In standard English, the difference between a flower and a flow-wer (probably the punchline of a joke about rivers) is the pronunciation of the first vowel.
The Britsh date the birth of the British cryptic crossword to a crossword setter who used, Flower (5), as the clue for river. You still occasionally get it as part of the wordplay in cryptic crosswords.
Cornflour and cornflower are not homophones in my part of the UK.
Yes, that's interesting. I agreed with everyone saying that flour and flower are homophones, but when you add corn in front I think I do say them slightly differently. The best I can describe it is that cornflour has less of a w sound in it.
In my experience of Canadian English, flour and flower are homophones.
The similarity is behind this little joke in the movie "Stranger than Fiction", where a man gives a woman who owns a bakery a present: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74S5aT3_AfM
Agree with the Canadian pronunciation, and I love that scene.
Cornflour and cornflower are not homophones in my part of the UK.
Yes, that's interesting. I agreed with everyone saying that flour and flower are homophones, but when you add corn in front I think I do say them slightly differently. The best I can describe it is that cornflour has less of a w sound in it.
I grew up near London.
I have been driven to walk around muttering "I cook with flour" and "I picked a flower" to the extent that I suspect the neighbours question my sanity as we pass 2 metres apart in the street.
I make more of a w sound in flower, with or without corn attached.
(I came to East Anglia from the Home Counties, via London.)
I'm used to "flour" and "flower" being pronounce almost the same. Both are effectively two syllables. "Flour" is said more tightly, and "flower" with a more open mouth.
And re what was said upthread about stressing "flo-WER": I've never hear that in any kind of English-language accent I've ever heard.
The talk of squirrel and girl reminds me of the thing where if you say "Space Ghetto" in an American accent, you sound like a Glaswegian saying "Spice Girl"
(we've probably mentioned this before in the past 100+ pages but I'm too lazy to check)
Comments
When you hear it that way, it means you stepped in some pretty deep doodoo.
Same here in Australia.
I was this many days old when I discovered that 'squirrel' could also rhyme with 'girl'. Never occurred to me.
All those are true for this Californian. But for me, "girl", "curl", and "twirl" also rhyme with "squirrel". It's just one of those things.
I've been having fun with the "Go Away, Little Squirrel" thread.
I dislike this quirk of pronunciation which in my observation occurs in Queenslanders rather than in other states of Oz. They also tend to pronounce flower as two distinct syllables (flow-wer). Many people think Australians all sound alike, but as a linguist I can assure them that there are distinct regional differences.
How else could one possibly pronounce it???
Same as flour.
Oh, and I remembered the word I was looking for, for those random not-quite syllables. "Glides."
Everyone I know in Tasmania says flour, rather than flow- wer which places emphasis on the second syllable
Can't remember ever hearing either of those.
Some UK dialects tend to flatten this sound to "ah" - hence cockney "Lavvly Flahs". Other diphthongs too - my Bedfordshire mother (family with London roots so it could be either) would refer to electrical wahs and gas fahs.
I've never met anyone who placed the emphasis on the second syllable in flower.
In standard English, the difference between a flower and a flow-wer (probably the punchline of a joke about rivers) is the pronunciation of the first vowel. It's an /aʊ/ diphthong in the plant, and an /oʊ/ diphthong in the river. But the emphasis is the same, and in neither case is the trailing r rhotic.
The single-syllable people are, I think, pronouncing flower (and/or flour) with a triphthong.
(Do people think flour and flower are homophones?)
They are in the part of southern England I grew up in.
Standard English in what country?
And here also.
The similarity is behind this little joke in the movie "Stranger than Fiction", where a man gives a woman who owns a bakery a present: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74S5aT3_AfM
Agreed. I come from central southern England and Mrs Claypool comes from the south west. We both say these words exactly the same.
This Canadian agrees.
Well there you go, I learned something new today.
How are they different?
Yes, that's interesting. I agreed with everyone saying that flour and flower are homophones, but when you add corn in front I think I do say them slightly differently. The best I can describe it is that cornflour has less of a w sound in it.
I grew up near London.
Agree with the Canadian pronunciation, and I love that scene.
I have been driven to walk around muttering "I cook with flour" and "I picked a flower" to the extent that I suspect the neighbours question my sanity as we pass 2 metres apart in the street.
I make more of a w sound in flower, with or without corn attached.
(I came to East Anglia from the Home Counties, via London.)
And the u goes away between dolour and dolorous.
NBer? No idea what that is, I'm sorry.
And re what was said upthread about stressing "flo-WER": I've never hear that in any kind of English-language accent I've ever heard.
(we've probably mentioned this before in the past 100+ pages but I'm too lazy to check)
Yup, those are absolutely accurate. We are multilingual, we are.
I was thinking Tri-Lingual at least.