And then there was the mystery of the Lynton & Barnstaple's Lew, sold to Brazil and never seen again ...
I wonder if the good Reverent Wilbert made up the "South America" story to put us off the real story, of "Fire Queen", locked in a shed at Gilfach Ddu (Dinorwig) from the 1880s until after the quarry closed in the 1960s, rediscovered and sent to Penrhyn Castle museum? "Duke" was published in 1970 and I'm sure that the author, with his interest in the Welsh narrow gauge, would have known about "Fire Queen" - although "Duke" himself is of course a George England Ffestiniog locomotive.
Wasn't there a report some years ago to the effect that Lew had been seen? Possibly some time beforehand, but...
As to Fire Queen - what a delightfully eccentric locomotive she is! Built to the Padarn Railway's unusual *main line* gauge of four feet, and at a works not very far from Arkland...a wonderful example of very early locomotive design.
I'm sure the Thin Clergyman was indeed aware of her existence. What is she up to now? Is she still in a museum? Enquiring (and very nerdy) minds need to know.
Still at Penrhyn Castle - where I saw her c.1971. A valuable, unique artefact. At that time the LNWR "Coal Tank" was also there - happily she is now at the Worth Valley Railway and was in working order but is now under overhaul.
Warning - for some reason that site is labelled Not Secure, though I can't think why. If you Google *Fire Queen Locomotive*, and choose *Images*, there are lots of photos of her in the Museum.
Here's her sister, Jenny Lind, complete (?) with added *cab*:
For those who are interested in the surviving early locomotives like 'Fire Queen', Loco Motion: The World's Oldest Steam Locomotives by Michael R. Bailey, The History Press 2014, is a book worth buying.
And then there was the mystery of the Lynton & Barnstaple's Lew, sold to Brazil and never seen again ...
I wonder if the good Reverent Wilbert made up the "South America" story to put us off the real story, of "Fire Queen", locked in a shed at Gilfach Ddu (Dinorwig) from the 1880s until after the quarry closed in the 1960s, rediscovered and sent to Penrhyn Castle museum? "Duke" was published in 1970 and I'm sure that the author, with his interest in the Welsh narrow gauge, would have known about "Fire Queen" - although "Duke" himself is of course a George England Ffestiniog locomotive.
From what I remember from the good Reverend's biography that's one of the few things that no one can put a reference to - and the Fire Queen story is indeed a proposed explanation.
Wasn't there a report some years ago to the effect that Lew had been seen? Possibly some time beforehand, but...
As the ship's resident L&B member (and indeed 009 modeller), there was a really weird report at some time in the 1990s, and not in an April edition, along those lines, with the promise of more to come but the source was keeping tight lipped until transport had been sorted back to the UK. Needless to say nothing was ever said on the subject again.
The whole Lew story is bizarre though, because, if I get all of this right from memory, there's no record of her being bought by a South American firm, but someone chalked 'Pernambuco' (Recife in modern money) on one of her tanks, but the ship she was supposedly loaded aboard wasn't going there and there's no record of her in the cargo manifest anyway...
FWIW I suspect she did end up in South America somewhere, and almost certainly got scrapped in the 50s or at the latest the late 1960s. Having said that, I will of course be delighted when she turns up.
A nice video of the last days of Dinorwic - there are two short clips of the Padarn Railway at 21:36. https://tinyurl.com/3jsrscac
Is that the right link BT? I just enjoyed a load of urbex (well, not-very- 'urb' -ex) pics of someone's exploration up to the Australia level.
The Boyd books on industrial railways are brilliant nerd-fodder. I've got a few of them They can (in the absence of internet - I am often camping) form the basis of some really interesting explorations of long-lost stuff - I once had a great, lonely day out walking the remains of Gorseddau Tramway, and the one which comes off it whose name I have forgotten. And the Croesor Tramway, and taking my kid underground at the top of the latter (getting up the incline was a climb!) into the quarry adit, all the way to the lake of doom People braver than me (with climbing gear and expertise) can do a through trip:
"In spite of a series of collapses, particularly in the Rhosydd quarry, an underground journey from Croesor to Rhosydd is still possible and is considered to be a classic trip for mine explorers. It is known as the Croesor–Rhosydd Through Trip. Fixed ropes, home-made suspension bridges, zip wires, and inflatable boats have been installed which make it possible to complete the journey in comfort although not necessarily in safety." (wiki).
(That makes it sound like a theme park. It is a derelict hole in the ground, in which persons unknown have left stuff for a period unknown, that you might want to hang off above a gaping and sometimes flooded abyss. Enjoy ).
A nice video of the last days of Dinorwic - there are two short clips of the Padarn Railway at 21:36. https://tinyurl.com/3jsrscac
Is that the right link BT? I just enjoyed a load of urbex (well, not-very- 'urb' -ex) pics of someone's exploration up to the Australia level.
I think so - scroll down the page past the quarry map and photos and you'll eventually find the video in it. Unless what works for me doesn't work for you!
BTW You might want to buy "The Slate Railways of Wales" by Alun Richard.
With regard to locos in jungles: the Swiss managed the rather spectacular feat of re-patriating a couple of narrow gauge rack-and-pinion alpine steam engines from I think Vietnam. Amongst them were even two quite impressive ones, type HG 4/4, that had never run in Switzerland. All of these engines were built by what used to be the Swiss Locomotive and Machine Works.
I've only see videos and pictures, but they look interesting, if you're into that sort of thing. Link to the heritage line on Wiki here. Their biggest ex-Vietnam loco (the one that never ran in Europe), the 0-8-0-plus-cogwheel(s) HG 4/4, is here in a longish video showing reassembly, road transport and finally, from about 9 minutes in, the first test runs: video.
I'm more into standard gauge, but this is quite intriguing - like a very delicate, yet strangely powerful kind of toy loco!
A nice video of the last days of Dinorwic - there are two short clips of the Padarn Railway at 21:36. https://tinyurl.com/3jsrscac
Is that the right link BT? I just enjoyed a load of urbex (well, not-very- 'urb' -ex) pics of someone's exploration up to the Australia level.
I think so - scroll down the page past the quarry map and photos and you'll eventually find the video in it. Unless what works for me doesn't work for you!
BTW You might want to buy "The Slate Railways of Wales" by Alun Richard.
Ah, found it. Thanks for that film, it was good! And thanks for the book recommendation, I have ordered a copy. I have the same author's 'Slate quarrying in Wales' which is good too. Another good one is Michael Messenger 'Slate quarry railways of Gwynedd' - a lot of colour photos - but that's what the internet is for these days!
And on the subject of book reviews - I enjoyed 'How steam engines really work' by Semmens and Goldfinch - anyone else looked at that? Quite a lot of nerd-out engineering detail, but thankfully not a mathematical treatment of the carnot cycle!
And there's a song about exactly that incident which happened in 1959 in Kirkby-in-Ashfield.
The Turntable Song by Dave Goulder:
Was half past five on a Wednesday morn the driver and his mate
Came hurtling out o loco shed in a damn great number eight
The fireman wiped his greasy hands they rolled along the track
To pick up a gallon of water and a couple o tubs o slack
Couple o tubs o slack
Edited to remove excess verses for copyright protections.
jedijudy-Heaven Host
@Merry Vole Please do not put all the verses of songs on the Ship. One verse and a link to the whole song would be appropriate.
We do not wish to get in any legal hot water!
Unless, of course, you are Dave Goulder, in which case we are in a pickle, because you would be outing yourself when you attribute the song to yourself! So, in either case, a verse and a link would be best!
For those interested in spectaclar derailments, this may be of interest.
Following this incident, the wing at Top Points on the Great Zig-Zag was extended around a curve to terminate at a sandstone cliff-face, thus eliminating the possibility of recurrence, but perhaps increasing the possibility of fatal damage to any runaway locomotive.
The Zig-Zag Railway is currently out of service, hoping to resume passenger operations mid-year, following massive damage from two enormous bushfires in recent years. A retired train-controller friend of mine is currently spending his weekends retraining the volunteers in their safeworking procedures to allow for the resumption of services.
We've travelled on it several times, both before and after Dlet's arrival. As to the other places you've mentioned, we like The Hattery Café both for its food and for being a bit out of the main pedestrian traffic further up the hill. A good range of hats at the hattery also. Leura is a good place to just wander up and down. If you get there again, try and include Leuralla, with its Evatt links.
The Zig-Zag was a major engineering undertaking for the colony. Can you imagine the difficulties in getting a train of wheat or sheep up the hill - it would have taken a couple of hours to break the train into suitable sections, get each to Clarence, reassemble and then head up to the city. The Ten Tunnels which replaced the Zig-Zag were even more of an undertaking.
I appreciated the passage from McGonagall, surely the worst of the Victorian versifiers. See if you can get the whole of his account of the Tay Bridge disaster.
The blog was not mine @Gee D, but we've often holidayed in the mountains. We both possess hats purchased at The Hattery, and have visited Leuralla. I even organised for an excursion from my small school to travel on the Zig-Zag Railway about twenty years ago. It was mid-week so only the diesel railcars but it was a fun experience for these rural kids. Less fun was had as we travelled home via the Bells Line and Putty Roads with their many bends.
Thanks for the clarification. I can well imagine that the children would not like the Putty Rd - all they'd want at that stage would be to get home.
Clive Evatt Snr lived not far from us, in a large red-brick house in Junction Rd on an acre or so of grounds. It has some sort of heritage significance. Clive was a younger brother of Dr Evatt. He had a very substantial defamation practice (for plaintiffs), as well as for plaintiffs in personal injury actions.
Can I just say how much I appreciate all the knowledge, hints and suggestions on this thread. A lot to look up and read up on. A smooth and instructive ride. Thank you!
The Zig-Zag was a major engineering undertaking for the colony. Can you imagine the difficulties in getting a train of wheat or sheep up the hill - it would have taken a couple of hours to break the train into suitable sections, get each to Clarence, reassemble and then head up to the city. The Ten Tunnels which replaced the Zig-Zag were even more of an undertaking.
If you really want zig-zags you should look at the Callao, Lima & Oroya Railway Ferrocarril Central Andino) (in Peru. Not only is this standard gauge, carrying heavy freight, but it also goes up to 15,692 feet in altitude (second only to the new Tibet railway). Seriously hairy!
A few years ago Partner and I travelled on the Canadian Rocky Mountaineer train through the famous and rather odd Spiral Tunnels underneath the Kicking Horse Pass through the Rockies. Very strange!
The Zig-Zag was a major engineering undertaking for the colony. Can you imagine the difficulties in getting a train of wheat or sheep up the hill - it would have taken a couple of hours to break the train into suitable sections, get each to Clarence, reassemble and then head up to the city. The Ten Tunnels which replaced the Zig-Zag were even more of an undertaking.
If you really want zig-zags you should look at the Callao, Lima & Oroya Railway Ferrocarril Central Andino) (in Peru. Not only is this standard gauge, carrying heavy freight, but it also goes up to 15,692 feet in altitude (second only to the new Tibet railway). Seriously hairy!
Yes, an amazing piece of engineering. I first read of it when I was 7 or 8 - it featured in a railway book given as a birthday or Christmas present.
Perhaps not quite so well known are the reverses in South Africa on the now closed line up to Barkly East. We had a happy time in that very beautiful place a few years ago - a gathering of well-weathered engineers and their patient wives. The ladies could not understand why we were so enthusiastic about the upper Karnmelkspruit Viaduct that isn't there and never has been there, but might have been. There were several expeditions there, an earlier one being written up here: https://www.idc-online.com/technical_references/pdfs/civil_engineering/Cry_the_beloved_railway.pdf
We had a near-miss on the Bethungra Spiral here on the NSW Main South Line a few days ago. An intermodal train had some of its wagons derail just as the train was passing over the tunnel and cutting. Wagons and containers higgledy-piggledy but fortunately stayed on the upper level. A good image can be found here
I see Australian journalists have the same difficulty as their British colleagues do in distinguishing carriages from wagons.
But perhaps, just perhaps, Australian journalists do not use UK English?
I get most of my information on Australian railway goings-on from ATSB accident investigation reports, and they always refer to freight vehicles as wagons.
If you're my age, you also have a problem with 'train station'. To me, a 'station' is a railway one unless prefixed by some adjective like 'bus'.
Me too - but there is some logic in referring to a *train* station. It's the place where trains stop, start from etc., in the same way as buses do at a *bus* station.
I see Australian journalists have the same difficulty as their British colleagues do in distinguishing carriages from wagons.
But perhaps, just perhaps, Australian journalists do not use UK English?
I get most of my information on Australian railway goings-on from ATSB accident investigation reports, and they always refer to freight vehicles as wagons.
That's not a source I know, just going on regular news reports.
I see Australian journalists have the same difficulty as their British colleagues do in distinguishing carriages from wagons.
But perhaps, just perhaps, Australian journalists do not use UK English?
I get most of my information on Australian railway goings-on from ATSB accident investigation reports, and they always refer to freight vehicles as wagons.
No longer “waggons” praise be to Allah; one of the Britishisms which died out after Menzies
Talking of railway neologisms which are annoying, one annoyed my friend so much, that he used it as the title of his book. If you're into railways you might enjoy it (a comparison of UK railway journeys taken in the 60s and 70s with those much more recent, from someone who has spent his whole life travelling around by train). It's a funny book, and his others are pretty good too.
I understood the phrase to be used to distinguish a stop at a station from a random stop in the middle of nowhere while you waited for other, more important trains than yours, or indeed from a terminus.
I understood the phrase to be used to distinguish a stop at a station from a random stop in the middle of nowhere while you waited for other, more important trains than yours, or indeed from a terminus.
Regarding the unfathomable 'station stop' - I rather side here with MiM and that book's title (looks interesting!): I love Clives James' 'Point of View' on this: scroll down to the episode Fidgets on the March; he talks about what he calls 'the name-changing fidgets', and he mentions 'One' and 'First' train 'services' etc.; very funny and to the point, also for railway nerds.
I think I may have mentioned this on these boards before. With apologies to non-UK shipmates, the difference between a railway nerd and the rest of humanity are that the railway nerd thinks that,
1. Brief Encounter is spoilt by the love interest, and
2. Edinburgh Castle is a fantastic backdrop for a station.
Comments
Wasn't there a report some years ago to the effect that Lew had been seen? Possibly some time beforehand, but...
As to Fire Queen - what a delightfully eccentric locomotive she is! Built to the Padarn Railway's unusual *main line* gauge of four feet, and at a works not very far from Arkland...a wonderful example of very early locomotive design.
I'm sure the Thin Clergyman was indeed aware of her existence. What is she up to now? Is she still in a museum? Enquiring (and very nerdy) minds need to know.
https://www.nationaltrust.org.uk/features/railway-museum-at-penrhyn-castle
irsociety.co.uk/Archives/29/Fire_Queen.htm
Warning - for some reason that site is labelled Not Secure, though I can't think why. If you Google *Fire Queen Locomotive*, and choose *Images*, there are lots of photos of her in the Museum.
Here's her sister, Jenny Lind, complete (?) with added *cab*:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jenny_Lind_locomotive_(Padarn_Railway).jpg
Edited to correct link
jj-HH
https://tinyurl.com/3jsrscac
From what I remember from the good Reverend's biography that's one of the few things that no one can put a reference to - and the Fire Queen story is indeed a proposed explanation.
As the ship's resident L&B member (and indeed 009 modeller), there was a really weird report at some time in the 1990s, and not in an April edition, along those lines, with the promise of more to come but the source was keeping tight lipped until transport had been sorted back to the UK. Needless to say nothing was ever said on the subject again.
The whole Lew story is bizarre though, because, if I get all of this right from memory, there's no record of her being bought by a South American firm, but someone chalked 'Pernambuco' (Recife in modern money) on one of her tanks, but the ship she was supposedly loaded aboard wasn't going there and there's no record of her in the cargo manifest anyway...
FWIW I suspect she did end up in South America somewhere, and almost certainly got scrapped in the 50s or at the latest the late 1960s. Having said that, I will of course be delighted when she turns up.
Is that the right link BT? I just enjoyed a load of urbex (well, not-very- 'urb' -ex) pics of someone's exploration up to the Australia level.
The Boyd books on industrial railways are brilliant nerd-fodder. I've got a few of them
"In spite of a series of collapses, particularly in the Rhosydd quarry, an underground journey from Croesor to Rhosydd is still possible and is considered to be a classic trip for mine explorers. It is known as the Croesor–Rhosydd Through Trip. Fixed ropes, home-made suspension bridges, zip wires, and inflatable boats have been installed which make it possible to complete the journey in comfort although not necessarily in safety." (wiki).
BTW You might want to buy "The Slate Railways of Wales" by Alun Richard.
I've only see videos and pictures, but they look interesting, if you're into that sort of thing. Link to the heritage line on Wiki here. Their biggest ex-Vietnam loco (the one that never ran in Europe), the 0-8-0-plus-cogwheel(s) HG 4/4, is here in a longish video showing reassembly, road transport and finally, from about 9 minutes in, the first test runs: video.
I'm more into standard gauge, but this is quite intriguing - like a very delicate, yet strangely powerful kind of toy loco!
Ah, found it. Thanks for that film, it was good! And thanks for the book recommendation, I have ordered a copy. I have the same author's 'Slate quarrying in Wales' which is good too. Another good one is Michael Messenger 'Slate quarry railways of Gwynedd' - a lot of colour photos - but that's what the internet is for these days!
And on the subject of book reviews - I enjoyed 'How steam engines really work' by Semmens and Goldfinch - anyone else looked at that? Quite a lot of nerd-out engineering detail, but thankfully not a mathematical treatment of the carnot cycle!
And there's a song about exactly that incident which happened in 1959 in Kirkby-in-Ashfield.
The Turntable Song by Dave Goulder:
Was half past five on a Wednesday morn the driver and his mate
Came hurtling out o loco shed in a damn great number eight
The fireman wiped his greasy hands they rolled along the track
To pick up a gallon of water and a couple o tubs o slack
Couple o tubs o slack
Edited to remove excess verses for copyright protections.
jedijudy-Heaven Host
The errant engine was indeed an 8F 2-8-0 (as made in 00 gauge by Hornby-Dublo in the late 50s). Good to know that she got out safely.
I daresay the crew were duly *ahem* admonished...although not perhaps quite as drastically as the song suggests. Or were they?
@Merry Vole Please do not put all the verses of songs on the Ship. One verse and a link to the whole song would be appropriate.
We do not wish to get in any legal hot water!
Unless, of course, you are Dave Goulder, in which case we are in a pickle, because you would be outing yourself when you attribute the song to yourself! So, in either case, a verse and a link would be best!
Thank you!
Hanging up Hostly Robes
jedijudy-Heaven Host
Following this incident, the wing at Top Points on the Great Zig-Zag was extended around a curve to terminate at a sandstone cliff-face, thus eliminating the possibility of recurrence, but perhaps increasing the possibility of fatal damage to any runaway locomotive.
The Zig-Zag Railway is currently out of service, hoping to resume passenger operations mid-year, following massive damage from two enormous bushfires in recent years. A retired train-controller friend of mine is currently spending his weekends retraining the volunteers in their safeworking procedures to allow for the resumption of services.
The Zig-Zag was a major engineering undertaking for the colony. Can you imagine the difficulties in getting a train of wheat or sheep up the hill - it would have taken a couple of hours to break the train into suitable sections, get each to Clarence, reassemble and then head up to the city. The Ten Tunnels which replaced the Zig-Zag were even more of an undertaking.
I appreciated the passage from McGonagall, surely the worst of the Victorian versifiers. See if you can get the whole of his account of the Tay Bridge disaster.
Clive Evatt Snr lived not far from us, in a large red-brick house in Junction Rd on an acre or so of grounds. It has some sort of heritage significance. Clive was a younger brother of Dr Evatt. He had a very substantial defamation practice (for plaintiffs), as well as for plaintiffs in personal injury actions.
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/CPR/spiralmap.jpg
I didn't know that that Deviation existed. I do know about (but have never seen) the spirals on the Gotthard route in Switzerland.
Yes, an amazing piece of engineering. I first read of it when I was 7 or 8 - it featured in a railway book given as a birthday or Christmas present.
https://www.idc-online.com/technical_references/pdfs/civil_engineering/Cry_the_beloved_railway.pdf
IIRC @Baptist Trainfan had a hand in building it...
(Apologies if this has been mentioned earlier BTW).
But perhaps, just perhaps, Australian journalists do not use UK English?
I get most of my information on Australian railway goings-on from ATSB accident investigation reports, and they always refer to freight vehicles as wagons.
Me too - but there is some logic in referring to a *train* station. It's the place where trains stop, start from etc., in the same way as buses do at a *bus* station.
That's not a source I know, just going on regular news reports.
No longer “waggons” praise be to Allah; one of the Britishisms which died out after Menzies
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Next-Station-Stop-Peter-Caton/dp/1783060506
Regarding the unfathomable 'station stop' - I rather side here with MiM and that book's title (looks interesting!): I love Clives James' 'Point of View' on this: scroll down to the episode Fidgets on the March; he talks about what he calls 'the name-changing fidgets', and he mentions 'One' and 'First' train 'services' etc.; very funny and to the point, also for railway nerds.
Better announcements, heard on the Underground:
"Mind the doors, please!" (Doors close and re-open).
"Please mind the closing doors!" (Ditto).
"Now take your foot out! (Doors close).
1. Brief Encounter is spoilt by the love interest, and
2. Edinburgh Castle is a fantastic backdrop for a station.
4. It is more important to visit the Railway Museum in York than the Minster (and cheaper!)
Well yes, there's plenty of big churches around but only one National Railway Museum.
Or a Methodist offshoot?