There's also the fact that airlifting enough supplies for 2 million people is more than a little challenging. Consider that to get each person 10 litres of water a day equates to 20 million litres, or 20 000 metric tons, every day. That's 1000 C-130s, every day, carrying nothing but water.
The international committee of the red cross are driving lorries of medical aid into Gaza - which tells us a few things.
For one it tells us that the situation is very serious because the ICRC are doing that (as opposed to the Palestinian or Egyptian Red Crescent, for example).
So. Phones and internet are suddenly down, international calls are blocked, there's no means of contacting people in Gaza and operations have been stepped up. This must be terrifying for the people on the ground - no way of calling anybody for help, let alone telling those outside what's going on.
Here are some before and after photos taken recently, as per Al Jazeera. I dread to think what daylight tomorrow will reveal.
Among the people there is a journalist whose family was wiped out a couple of days ago in a missile strike. He's getting on with the job of reporting from the front lines, God help him.
Among the people there is a journalist whose family was wiped out a couple of days ago in a missile strike. He's getting on with the job of reporting from the front lines, God help him.
There were some texts shared from another Palestinian journalist saying that they didn't know if it was better for them to all stay together so that they'd either survive or die together, or to split up so that there was likely to be someone alive to bear witness to the dead.
From Threads: "Egyptians on X who live in Al Arish 80 km away from Gaza are reporting they can feel the earth shake from the sheer number of bombs being dropped on Gaza. My heart can’t take this."
Banning the UN emissaries is not really the best way to go.
Israel basically going full Millwall at this point.
Could you explain this please? AIUI, Millwall is a UK soccer team/club, but that's about as far as it goes.
Their football chant goes "No one likes us, we don't care" based on a reputation for football hooliganism back in the day. No idea whether that's still a thing but there you are.
Thanks, and to ATMF also. I assume that by "football" you mean soccer.
Be warned - that leaflet's message is truly horrifying.
How will the current situation be reflected in church tomorrow, I wonder? It's Bible Sunday at Our Place, and no doubt we will be exhorted to have a greater love of God's Holy Word.
We have been told to be thankful that prayer has just been answered, inasmuch as the church boiler has been serviced, and is fit for purpose, but our prayers for the lands where Jesus spent his earthly life seem to have gone unheeded.
The international committee of the red cross are driving lorries of medical aid into Gaza - which tells us a few things.
For one it tells us that the situation is very serious because the ICRC are doing that (as opposed to the Palestinian or Egyptian Red Crescent, for example).
Point of information. The Palestinian and Egyptian Red Cresent organizations are part of the ICRC organization. They are the Red Crescent in Muslim countries to not cause offense among the people.
I am not going to defend Biden's actions; but, at least he did get aid trickling into Southern Gaza.
Point of fact, there are only a few countries that can do massive airdrops into an embattled area. NATO could easily do airlifts from Europe. The Allies were able to keep Berlin supplied during the Berlin Blockade in 1948-49. It is just a matter of will.
One thing I hate is seeing powers using major crises elsewhere to boost their own election prospects or popularity ratings. Johnson did this by visiting Ukraine when things got particularly difficult at home (he became so popular there they even renamed a street in Kyiv after him) and I'm now wondering if this is partly why Biden is taking the stance he is.
I think it's more Biden's age and political background. For decades the US line on Israel-Palestine has been simple: back Israel in everything. Veto anything requiring Israel to obey international law, blame Palestinians for any violence, blame Palestinians for any failed negotiations, pressure other countries to abandon the Palestinians (even to the point of backing a coup in Egypt to install a pro-Israel regime) etc etc. It's only in the last few years that younger Democrats on the left of the party have started to openly challenge this, but Biden belongs to an older generation and reverts to unquestioning support for Israel.
It's Biden's age and political background, but it goes beyond that. He's not just following the traditional US line on Israel; he feels a strong personal connection to Israel (gift link to NY Times article discussing this). I think @Arethosemyfeet understates Democrats' support for Palestinians. Before the Hamas attacks, Democrats' sympathy for Palestinians had grown considerably; as of March 2023, Democrats as a group had more sympathy for Palestinians than for Israelis (Gallup poll). Some younger lefty Democrats have vocally supported the Palestinians since I was young, and I'm no longer young. And finally, the stance Biden takes now is unlikely to help or hurt his election prospects; the election is too far away, and Americans don't typically base their votes on foreign policy. (Unless we're in a shooting war close to the election, in which case all bets are off.)
So -- while of course anything and everything a president does is political, Biden is not doing what he's doing to help get himself re-elected next year.
TBH both the anti-semitism and Islamophobia that have been seeping out of the woodwork over the last 3 weeks has been pretty nauseating, as have the false accusations of anti-semitism directed at people for not blaming Hamas for all the people Israel has killed.
@Ruth, happy to bow to your superior knowledge on this. Biden has sounded a lot like my recollections of US leaders in the 90s, and the tone of the discourse around Israel in things like The West Wing (which is obviously not factual but its political debates do seem to reflect those current in the US at the time it was made).
You're not wrong in the general outlines, it's just more complicated.
Antisemitism and Islamophobia were already on the rise in the US, so they're both only getting worse. The people at Jewish Voice for Peace have my utmost respect and admiration. NPR has a piece on the personal price liberal Jews are paying for criticizing Israel's actions.
You're not wrong in the general outlines, it's just more complicated.
Antisemitism and Islamophobia were already on the rise in the US, so they're both only getting worse. The people at Jewish Voice for Peace have my utmost respect and admiration. NPR has a piece on the personal price liberal Jews are paying for criticizing Israel's actions.
I can well believe the NPR piece - I've seen the fault lines between zionist and anti-zionist (or even just pro-peace and Likudnik) Jews in the UK, first as a student when I briefly worked with the co-chair of Jewish Students for Justice for Palestinians who was frequently called a self-hating Jew and the like, and more recently in the ugliness around Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party when the attacks on his Jewish supporters became increasingly vicious and personal. I think it's probably harder for religiously and culturally Jewish people than it is for those from more secular backgrounds.
The international committee of the red cross are driving lorries of medical aid into Gaza - which tells us a few things.
For one it tells us that the situation is very serious because the ICRC are doing that (as opposed to the Palestinian or Egyptian Red Crescent, for example).
Point of information. The Palestinian and Egyptian Red Cresent organizations are part of the ICRC organization. They are the Red Crescent in Muslim countries to not cause offense among the people.
For clarity, the ICRC has a very specific mandate in international law. Parties can and do stop others, but under the Geneva Conventions they can't stop the ICRC.
I've cited Orwell elsewhere on these boards and '1984' seems sadly prescient.
It suited the power blocs in Orwell's dystopia to have constant low level war going on all the time.
If I were being cynical I'd say that this has been the case since 1945 with both major superpowers benefiting in some way.
We've now got The West against The Rest and the danger of increasing polarisation. Any voices of moderation from whatever side can then be the more easily dismissed.
'Ask Israel to tone it down? You're a useful idiot supporting Hamas.'
I've seen loads of the first and none at all of the second. The only time I've seen people accused of Islamophobia is when they've claimed that all Muslims support Hamas, or that Muslim MPs only represent Muslims and don't do anything for their non-Muslim constituents.
FWIW I have friends in both Turkey and Egypt who say the JVP action in Grand Central Station received very positive coverage in respective local media.
The international committee of the red cross are driving lorries of medical aid into Gaza - which tells us a few things.
For one it tells us that the situation is very serious because the ICRC are doing that (as opposed to the Palestinian or Egyptian Red Crescent, for example).
Point of information. The Palestinian and Egyptian Red Cresent organizations are part of the ICRC organization. They are the Red Crescent in Muslim countries to not cause offense among the people.
It is *critical* to understand the difference in the midst of a warzone.
If you review what was being said, KoF implied the the ICRC did not contain the Red Cressent, that it was only the Red Cross giving aid. I replied the Red Cresent was part of the Red Cross. I should have said the Red Cressent was part of the ICRC. I regret the error.
In fact, I think you can see pictures of both the Red Cross and Red Cresent on the lorries going into Gaza.
From today's Guardian report on the latest pro-ceasefire march in London:
Another factor at the forefront of protesters’ minds was the ongoing communications blackout from Gaza, which has made it close to impossible for most civilians to contact the outside world. (name redacted) suspected the blackout was designed to hide Israeli war crimes. “Israel has the freedom to do whatever it wants as it tries to eliminate Palestinians. Journalists in Gaza who we’ve been following have disappeared, what’s going on is totally undocumented. We want the truth to be shown.”
Her friend...said: “It’s actually scarier to not know what’s actually going on.”
AFAIK, both people mentioned are young Palestinians.
The international committee of the red cross are driving lorries of medical aid into Gaza - which tells us a few things.
For one it tells us that the situation is very serious because the ICRC are doing that (as opposed to the Palestinian or Egyptian Red Crescent, for example).
Point of information. The Palestinian and Egyptian Red Cresent organizations are part of the ICRC organization. They are the Red Crescent in Muslim countries to not cause offense among the people.
It is *critical* to understand the difference in the midst of a warzone.
If you review what was being said, KoF implied the the ICRC did not contain the Red Cressent, that it was only the Red Cross giving aid. I replied the Red Cresent was part of the Red Cross. I should have said the Red Cressent was part of the ICRC. I regret the error.
In fact, I think you can see pictures of both the Red Cross and Red Cresent on the lorries going into Gaza.
Please. There are two different organisations, although associated they have different roles.
The ICRC has a very specific role in a warzone. National Red Crescent/Cross societies are not part of the ICRC.
I've seen loads of the first and none at all of the second. The only time I've seen people accused of Islamophobia is when they've claimed that all Muslims support Hamas, or that Muslim MPs only represent Muslims and don't do anything for their non-Muslim constituents.
Ok. I wasn't being literal with my ventiloquism. Simply pointing out that increasing polarisation will make reductionist positions of this kind more and more likely in the coming weeks.
Dare I say it, but it's rather like polarised positions on any other issue. Gun control in the US for instance.
What I'm dreading alongside massive non-combatant casualties in Gaza both directly and indirectly is intercommunal violence across the globe - attacks on synagogues, mosques and churches, increasing radicalisation, more terrorism, more geopolitical posturing and shit.
That has already been happening. Here, for example, is an extract from a Reuters article dated 20 October:
"London police said on Friday they had recorded a 1,353% increase in antisemitic offences this month compared to the same period last year, while Islamophobic offences were up 140% in the wake of the attack by Hamas on Israel."
The radicalization isn't going to advertise itself, but I've no doubt it's on the increase. You only have to look at the scale of the public protests to realize just how much anger and concern this has raised. The numbers for the pro-Palestine protests far outweigh the numbers for the pro-Israel demonstrations - partly because the Palestine protests draw in a wider demographic including Jewish people as was evident today in one of the biggest anti-war demonstrations in London in years.
"London police said on Friday they had recorded a 1,353% increase in antisemitic offences this month compared to the same period last year, while Islamophobic offences were up 140% in the wake of the attack by Hamas on Israel."
I'm not sure whether it's a hopeful or depressing thought that a fair chunk of the former were probably Luke Akehurst and chums reporting people for posting "Free Palestine" on Twitter. No doubt there has been a rise is anti-semitic abuse and attacks but given the accusations thrown around by Israel at least some of it will just be things zionists disagree with.
Hi,
This is a very sad, horrifying and sensitive subject.
Can I remind people to cite and reflect Jewish voices when it comes to discussing antisemitism? There is robust debate about what is or is not antisemitic with a lot of own voice comment being available and there are accounts of UK Jewish people's lived experience during current events which should be centred if people want to discuss UK antisemitism here.
In yesterday's Telegraph a Hamas leader was quoted as saying 'We call on Arab and Moslem nations and the international community to take responsibility and act immediately to stop the crimes and series of massacres against our people'.
I want to know what the killers thought they were doing on Oct 7th. And what they expected to happen next. Did they think Iran or whoever would have 'erased' Israel by now? Were they conned?
Were the Oct 7th killers just brainwashed in order to be able to carry out the atrocities?
I wonder if it was a combination of anger (which, per Yoda, does often lead to hate) boiling over and a cry for attention. After all, who was calling for a revival of the peace process a month ago? Who outside the left gave half a shit about Palestinians? I also think that Hamas' attack was more "successful" than they planned for, and the revenge consequently greater. I suspect they will have wound up their young men with promises of this being the first stage in a mass uprising, that they were striking a blow for Palestine against the oppressor, and all the other things you say to young men to get them to do horrible things for a cause.
A month ago the world's attention was focused on Ukraine v Russia. You may have noticed that that's been well and truly knocked off the top spot now that there's a new crisis to be focusing on. The waves of shock and outrage that accompanied the outbreak of the Ukraine conflict have now been transferred to the Palestine v Israel conflict.
It's a very old story and compassion fatigue and war-weariness are very real. I don't want this to come across as callous, but many of us are old enough to remember not just Ukraine but Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia... once you've seen footage of rubble, explosions, refugees, distressed people, heard the stories of atrocities, and maybe broken your heart over it the first time, it seems the same anywhere, just more of the same. The Palestine problem has been rumbling on for decades. We're used to it. It takes something like this to engender a new wave of shock.
Incidentally, extremist groups have been known to use drugs to encourage their recruits to stay awake, and diminish inhibitions. Amphetamines among others. It helps them take that crucial step from just being angry to actively acting on it when the time comes.
A month ago the world's attention was focused on Ukraine v Russia. You may have noticed that that's been well and truly knocked off the top spot now that there's a new crisis to be focusing on. The waves of shock and outrage that accompanied the outbreak of the Ukraine conflict have now been transferred to the Palestine v Israel conflict.
It's a very old story and compassion fatigue and war-weariness are very real. I don't want this to come across as callous, but many of us are old enough to remember not just Ukraine but Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia... once you've seen footage of rubble, explosions, refugees, distressed people, heard the stories of atrocities, and maybe broken your heart over it the first time, it seems the same anywhere, just more of the same. The Palestine problem has been rumbling on for decades. We're used to it. It takes something like this to engender a new wave of shock.
Incidentally, extremist groups have been known to use drugs to encourage their recruits to stay awake, and diminish inhibitions. Amphetamines among others. It helps them take that crucial step from just being angry to actively acting on it when the time comes.
You're right about Ukraine (and everywhere else...), but, interestingly, I get an ad from the Red Cross pretty well every time I turn on YouTube. I get these because I contribute regularly to the Red Cross, I suppose.
This ad is a stark reminder that the Red Cross still has much ongoing work to do in Ukraine, despite the lack of media coverage. They're right, of course, but I half-expected them to be putting out ads appealing for help in Gaza.
Maybe the situation there is still too uncertain, as far as aid reaching the million or so children in need is concerned, though we hear that Red Cross/Red Crescent workers are on the spot, or as near as they can get.
There's a new Red Cross appeal on YouTube, asking for support, and emphasising that they try to help anywhere in the world...
I dunno. Supporting an aid agency like them, if one can afford it (and every little helps) seems much more positive than vague prayers for peace in the *Holy Land*. YMMV, of course, but I'm having real trouble these days in believing that prayer is of any use at all.
Incidentally, extremist groups have been known to use drugs to encourage their recruits to stay awake, and diminish inhibitions. Amphetamines among others. It helps them take that crucial step from just being angry to actively acting on it when the time comes.
Western militaries, famously the US but probably others, drug their personnel too, particularly pilots if memory serves.
In yesterday's Telegraph a Hamas leader was quoted as saying 'We call on Arab and Moslem nations and the international community to take responsibility and act immediately to stop the crimes and series of massacres against our people'.
I want to know what the killers thought they were doing on Oct 7th. And what they expected to happen next. Did they think Iran or whoever would have 'erased' Israel by now? Were they conned?
Were the Oct 7th killers just brainwashed in order to be able to carry out the atrocities?
I believe it is designed to provoke an overwhelming response because Hamas believes that the videos of missiles flattening Gaza will galvanise others to act against Israel.
But as I remarked before, I don't think this actually works - because nobody in the region is going to take military action against Israel. So in essence Hamas is delusional.
In yesterday's Telegraph a Hamas leader was quoted as saying 'We call on Arab and Moslem nations and the international community to take responsibility and act immediately to stop the crimes and series of massacres against our people'.
I want to know what the killers thought they were doing on Oct 7th. And what they expected to happen next. Did they think Iran or whoever would have 'erased' Israel by now? Were they conned?
Were the Oct 7th killers just brainwashed in order to be able to carry out the atrocities?
I believe it is designed to provoke an overwhelming response because Hamas believes that the videos of missiles flattening Gaza will galvanise others to act against Israel.
But as I remarked before, I don't think this actually works - because nobody in the region is going to take military action against Israel. So in essence Hamas is delusional.
Delusional or merely desperate? Sometimes people do things because nothing else has worked.
Yes, I thought desperate. Of course, one might ask, what else can they do? I don't know. Hopes of a 2 state solution are extinguished, Israel takes more land, there is no future.
In yesterday's Telegraph a Hamas leader was quoted as saying 'We call on Arab and Moslem nations and the international community to take responsibility and act immediately to stop the crimes and series of massacres against our people'.
I want to know what the killers thought they were doing on Oct 7th. And what they expected to happen next. Did they think Iran or whoever would have 'erased' Israel by now? Were they conned?
Were the Oct 7th killers just brainwashed in order to be able to carry out the atrocities?
I believe it is designed to provoke an overwhelming response because Hamas believes that the videos of missiles flattening Gaza will galvanise others to act against Israel.
But as I remarked before, I don't think this actually works - because nobody in the region is going to take military action against Israel. So in essence Hamas is delusional.
Delusional or merely desperate? Sometimes people do things because nothing else has worked.
It is the modus operandi of Palestinian militants since the hijacks, "suicide" bombings and such back to the 1970s.
Part of the issue in the Israel-Palestinian conflict is that everyone is repeating tactics that clearly haven't worked for the last however-many times and think that this time it will be different.
It seems to me that they don't simply want an independent Palestinian state but the obliteration of Israel and the Jews.
As has been said before Hamas and the Palestinians as a whole are not synonymous.
That doesn't let Netanyahu or previous Israeli leaders off the hook they've made things worse.
If we are - quite rightly - to quote Jewish, Muslim and Palestinian Christian voices rather than our own, I heard a Jewish guy interviewed on Radio 4's religious news programme this morning. He clearly saw Hamas's actions as an anti-Semitic and existential threat.
Surely we can understand that?
Desperation is one thing, delusional thinking another - and I'm sure there are elements of both here - but Hamas won't be satisfied with a two-state solution nor, I suspect, an independent Palestinian state with Muslims and Jews living in harmony.
You wouldn't decapitate babies one minute and shake hands across the garden fence the next.
But then, we do need to hear Palestinian voices - Muslim, Christian and whatever else - bearing in mind that none of these groups are monolithic.
But the more terror and the more bombing in response the more polarised positions become.
The Jewish chap interviewed on Radio 4 claimed that 80% of Jewish Israelis were in favour of the bombing, irrespective of their political persuasion.
Sooner or later the bombing and shooting will stop. What happens then? How on earth can either side move on?
"Working" for Hamas would be others riding to their rescue and forcing Israel to retreat to the 1948 green line.
But it's a delusion. Nobody is riding to the rescue of Palestinians as Middle Eastern powers have more to gain from perpetual instability in Israel-Palestine.
It seems to me that they don't simply want an independent Palestinian state but the obliteration of Israel and the Jews.
I think the first part of that is true for almost all Hamas supporters but the second only true for some. For some they will have a fantasy vision of the mediaeval Islamic caliphates where Christians and Jews were safe but second class citizens; others will want Palestine back and don't give a shit what happens to Jewish Israelis so long as they're not in Palestine . Others will indeed see the extermination of Jews as an end in itself not merely the means of reclaiming Palestine. And that's before you get to the broader range of Palestinian opinion outwith Hamas. There's also the fact that goals and opinions can change. It's tempting to assume that members of Hamas are fanatically and permanently devoted to the words of the first Hamas charter, but I would doubt that is the case. If you'd asked IRA members in 1983 what it would take for them to lay down their weapons and you'd likely have heard "united Ireland", "British withdrawal" and similar absolutes. The prospect of peace and ending injustices can soften absolutes for all but the most ideologically committed.
I made the mistake of donating to the Red Cross during the Bosnia conflict and they bombarded me after that pretty well every month with letters and emails. They ignored all my requests to stop sending letters and unsubscribe. It took a threat of legal action to get them to stop, and I would never give money to them now in an identifiable way. They can have the odd cash donation but they aren't getting my name or any contact details.
Sooner or later the bombing and shooting will stop. What happens then? How on earth can either side move on?
By then most of Gaza will be flattened and people dead. So there won't be much of the other side left in situ to object. They seem to be being herded into already hugely overcrowded areas for their own safety which are then proven to be unsafe. This latest - "evacuate your hospitals" - is just a clear sign that the infrastructure is being targeted. Netanyahu is quoting the Bible and calling for a holy war. I don't think it can be clearer than that.
We are going to see a lot of anger on the streets this coming weekend I think. This last weekend's protest did have some tempers flare over which wasn't evident at the one before (most of the trouble in the previous one came from a separate demo in another part of London). It was also much more extensive - several hundred thousand people marching to protest in a way that brought much of central London to a halt, including the occupying of Waterloo Station, for one.
Comments
The problem is not the mechanics of getting the stuff into Gaza, the problems are entirely political.
It would be quite difficult to drop in enough food, water and fuel to help much.
For one it tells us that the situation is very serious because the ICRC are doing that (as opposed to the Palestinian or Egyptian Red Crescent, for example).
Here are some before and after photos taken recently, as per Al Jazeera. I dread to think what daylight tomorrow will reveal.
Yes, dread is the right word, I think, and here we are, helpless to do anything, or so it seems.
Among the people there is a journalist whose family was wiped out a couple of days ago in a missile strike. He's getting on with the job of reporting from the front lines, God help him.
There were some texts shared from another Palestinian journalist saying that they didn't know if it was better for them to all stay together so that they'd either survive or die together, or to split up so that there was likely to be someone alive to bear witness to the dead.
BTW, there are apparently nearly a million - ONE MILLION - young people under 18 in Gaza...the sheer scale of the horror beggars belief.
https://www.change.org/p/an-open-letter-from-palestinian-christians-to-western-church-leaders-and-theologians
"We find courage in the solidarity we receive from the crucified Christ, and we find hope in the empty tomb.
We refuse to give in, even when our siblings abandon us."
Thanks, and to ATMF also. I assume that by "football" you mean soccer.
How will the current situation be reflected in church tomorrow, I wonder? It's Bible Sunday at Our Place, and no doubt we will be exhorted to have a greater love of God's Holy Word.
We have been told to be thankful that prayer has just been answered, inasmuch as the church boiler has been serviced, and is fit for purpose, but our prayers for the lands where Jesus spent his earthly life seem to have gone unheeded.
Who can read this riddle?
Point of information. The Palestinian and Egyptian Red Cresent organizations are part of the ICRC organization. They are the Red Crescent in Muslim countries to not cause offense among the people.
I am not going to defend Biden's actions; but, at least he did get aid trickling into Southern Gaza.
Point of fact, there are only a few countries that can do massive airdrops into an embattled area. NATO could easily do airlifts from Europe. The Allies were able to keep Berlin supplied during the Berlin Blockade in 1948-49. It is just a matter of will.
Sounds like the ground war has begun.
Lord have mercy,
I am becoming worried about anti-Semitic responses to this.
It's Biden's age and political background, but it goes beyond that. He's not just following the traditional US line on Israel; he feels a strong personal connection to Israel (gift link to NY Times article discussing this). I think @Arethosemyfeet understates Democrats' support for Palestinians. Before the Hamas attacks, Democrats' sympathy for Palestinians had grown considerably; as of March 2023, Democrats as a group had more sympathy for Palestinians than for Israelis (Gallup poll). Some younger lefty Democrats have vocally supported the Palestinians since I was young, and I'm no longer young. And finally, the stance Biden takes now is unlikely to help or hurt his election prospects; the election is too far away, and Americans don't typically base their votes on foreign policy. (Unless we're in a shooting war close to the election, in which case all bets are off.)
So -- while of course anything and everything a president does is political, Biden is not doing what he's doing to help get himself re-elected next year.
Antisemitism and Islamophobia were already on the rise in the US, so they're both only getting worse. The people at Jewish Voice for Peace have my utmost respect and admiration. NPR has a piece on the personal price liberal Jews are paying for criticizing Israel's actions.
I can well believe the NPR piece - I've seen the fault lines between zionist and anti-zionist (or even just pro-peace and Likudnik) Jews in the UK, first as a student when I briefly worked with the co-chair of Jewish Students for Justice for Palestinians who was frequently called a self-hating Jew and the like, and more recently in the ugliness around Jeremy Corbyn's leadership of the Labour Party when the attacks on his Jewish supporters became increasingly vicious and personal. I think it's probably harder for religiously and culturally Jewish people than it is for those from more secular backgrounds.
Nope they are not. Look it up on Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Committee_of_the_Red_Cross
The national red cross and red crescents are part of the International Federation of the Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Federation_of_Red_Cross_and_Red_Crescent_Societies
It is *critical* to understand the difference in the midst of a warzone.
It suited the power blocs in Orwell's dystopia to have constant low level war going on all the time.
If I were being cynical I'd say that this has been the case since 1945 with both major superpowers benefiting in some way.
We've now got The West against The Rest and the danger of increasing polarisation. Any voices of moderation from whatever side can then be the more easily dismissed.
'Ask Israel to tone it down? You're a useful idiot supporting Hamas.'
'Criticise militant Islamism? You're Islamophobic.'
The whole situation is obscene. The blame lies with geopolitical manoeuvring on all sides.
It has to stop. But how?
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
I've seen loads of the first and none at all of the second. The only time I've seen people accused of Islamophobia is when they've claimed that all Muslims support Hamas, or that Muslim MPs only represent Muslims and don't do anything for their non-Muslim constituents.
FWIW I have friends in both Turkey and Egypt who say the JVP action in Grand Central Station received very positive coverage in respective local media.
If you review what was being said, KoF implied the the ICRC did not contain the Red Cressent, that it was only the Red Cross giving aid. I replied the Red Cresent was part of the Red Cross. I should have said the Red Cressent was part of the ICRC. I regret the error.
In fact, I think you can see pictures of both the Red Cross and Red Cresent on the lorries going into Gaza.
Another factor at the forefront of protesters’ minds was the ongoing communications blackout from Gaza, which has made it close to impossible for most civilians to contact the outside world. (name redacted) suspected the blackout was designed to hide Israeli war crimes. “Israel has the freedom to do whatever it wants as it tries to eliminate Palestinians. Journalists in Gaza who we’ve been following have disappeared, what’s going on is totally undocumented. We want the truth to be shown.”
Her friend...said: “It’s actually scarier to not know what’s actually going on.”
AFAIK, both people mentioned are young Palestinians.
Please. There are two different organisations, although associated they have different roles.
The ICRC has a very specific role in a warzone. National Red Crescent/Cross societies are not part of the ICRC.
Ok. I wasn't being literal with my ventiloquism. Simply pointing out that increasing polarisation will make reductionist positions of this kind more and more likely in the coming weeks.
Dare I say it, but it's rather like polarised positions on any other issue. Gun control in the US for instance.
What I'm dreading alongside massive non-combatant casualties in Gaza both directly and indirectly is intercommunal violence across the globe - attacks on synagogues, mosques and churches, increasing radicalisation, more terrorism, more geopolitical posturing and shit.
"London police said on Friday they had recorded a 1,353% increase in antisemitic offences this month compared to the same period last year, while Islamophobic offences were up 140% in the wake of the attack by Hamas on Israel."
The radicalization isn't going to advertise itself, but I've no doubt it's on the increase. You only have to look at the scale of the public protests to realize just how much anger and concern this has raised. The numbers for the pro-Palestine protests far outweigh the numbers for the pro-Israel demonstrations - partly because the Palestine protests draw in a wider demographic including Jewish people as was evident today in one of the biggest anti-war demonstrations in London in years.
I'm not sure whether it's a hopeful or depressing thought that a fair chunk of the former were probably Luke Akehurst and chums reporting people for posting "Free Palestine" on Twitter. No doubt there has been a rise is anti-semitic abuse and attacks but given the accusations thrown around by Israel at least some of it will just be things zionists disagree with.
This is a very sad, horrifying and sensitive subject.
Can I remind people to cite and reflect Jewish voices when it comes to discussing antisemitism? There is robust debate about what is or is not antisemitic with a lot of own voice comment being available and there are accounts of UK Jewish people's lived experience during current events which should be centred if people want to discuss UK antisemitism here.
Thanks very much!
Louise
Epiphanies Host
I want to know what the killers thought they were doing on Oct 7th. And what they expected to happen next. Did they think Iran or whoever would have 'erased' Israel by now? Were they conned?
Were the Oct 7th killers just brainwashed in order to be able to carry out the atrocities?
It's a very old story and compassion fatigue and war-weariness are very real. I don't want this to come across as callous, but many of us are old enough to remember not just Ukraine but Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Bosnia... once you've seen footage of rubble, explosions, refugees, distressed people, heard the stories of atrocities, and maybe broken your heart over it the first time, it seems the same anywhere, just more of the same. The Palestine problem has been rumbling on for decades. We're used to it. It takes something like this to engender a new wave of shock.
Incidentally, extremist groups have been known to use drugs to encourage their recruits to stay awake, and diminish inhibitions. Amphetamines among others. It helps them take that crucial step from just being angry to actively acting on it when the time comes.
You're right about Ukraine (and everywhere else...), but, interestingly, I get an ad from the Red Cross pretty well every time I turn on YouTube. I get these because I contribute regularly to the Red Cross, I suppose.
This ad is a stark reminder that the Red Cross still has much ongoing work to do in Ukraine, despite the lack of media coverage. They're right, of course, but I half-expected them to be putting out ads appealing for help in Gaza.
Maybe the situation there is still too uncertain, as far as aid reaching the million or so children in need is concerned, though we hear that Red Cross/Red Crescent workers are on the spot, or as near as they can get.
There's a new Red Cross appeal on YouTube, asking for support, and emphasising that they try to help anywhere in the world...
I dunno. Supporting an aid agency like them, if one can afford it (and every little helps) seems much more positive than vague prayers for peace in the *Holy Land*. YMMV, of course, but I'm having real trouble these days in believing that prayer is of any use at all.
Western militaries, famously the US but probably others, drug their personnel too, particularly pilots if memory serves.
I believe it is designed to provoke an overwhelming response because Hamas believes that the videos of missiles flattening Gaza will galvanise others to act against Israel.
But as I remarked before, I don't think this actually works - because nobody in the region is going to take military action against Israel. So in essence Hamas is delusional.
Delusional or merely desperate? Sometimes people do things because nothing else has worked.
It is the modus operandi of Palestinian militants since the hijacks, "suicide" bombings and such back to the 1970s.
Part of the issue in the Israel-Palestinian conflict is that everyone is repeating tactics that clearly haven't worked for the last however-many times and think that this time it will be different.
It won't.
It seems to me that they don't simply want an independent Palestinian state but the obliteration of Israel and the Jews.
As has been said before Hamas and the Palestinians as a whole are not synonymous.
That doesn't let Netanyahu or previous Israeli leaders off the hook they've made things worse.
If we are - quite rightly - to quote Jewish, Muslim and Palestinian Christian voices rather than our own, I heard a Jewish guy interviewed on Radio 4's religious news programme this morning. He clearly saw Hamas's actions as an anti-Semitic and existential threat.
Surely we can understand that?
Desperation is one thing, delusional thinking another - and I'm sure there are elements of both here - but Hamas won't be satisfied with a two-state solution nor, I suspect, an independent Palestinian state with Muslims and Jews living in harmony.
You wouldn't decapitate babies one minute and shake hands across the garden fence the next.
But then, we do need to hear Palestinian voices - Muslim, Christian and whatever else - bearing in mind that none of these groups are monolithic.
But the more terror and the more bombing in response the more polarised positions become.
The Jewish chap interviewed on Radio 4 claimed that 80% of Jewish Israelis were in favour of the bombing, irrespective of their political persuasion.
Sooner or later the bombing and shooting will stop. What happens then? How on earth can either side move on?
But it's a delusion. Nobody is riding to the rescue of Palestinians as Middle Eastern powers have more to gain from perpetual instability in Israel-Palestine.
I think the first part of that is true for almost all Hamas supporters but the second only true for some. For some they will have a fantasy vision of the mediaeval Islamic caliphates where Christians and Jews were safe but second class citizens; others will want Palestine back and don't give a shit what happens to Jewish Israelis so long as they're not in Palestine . Others will indeed see the extermination of Jews as an end in itself not merely the means of reclaiming Palestine. And that's before you get to the broader range of Palestinian opinion outwith Hamas. There's also the fact that goals and opinions can change. It's tempting to assume that members of Hamas are fanatically and permanently devoted to the words of the first Hamas charter, but I would doubt that is the case. If you'd asked IRA members in 1983 what it would take for them to lay down their weapons and you'd likely have heard "united Ireland", "British withdrawal" and similar absolutes. The prospect of peace and ending injustices can soften absolutes for all but the most ideologically committed.
By then most of Gaza will be flattened and people dead. So there won't be much of the other side left in situ to object. They seem to be being herded into already hugely overcrowded areas for their own safety which are then proven to be unsafe. This latest - "evacuate your hospitals" - is just a clear sign that the infrastructure is being targeted. Netanyahu is quoting the Bible and calling for a holy war. I don't think it can be clearer than that.
We are going to see a lot of anger on the streets this coming weekend I think. This last weekend's protest did have some tempers flare over which wasn't evident at the one before (most of the trouble in the previous one came from a separate demo in another part of London). It was also much more extensive - several hundred thousand people marching to protest in a way that brought much of central London to a halt, including the occupying of Waterloo Station, for one.
Once hunger, thirst and disease kick in it could be an order of magnitude worse