Heaven 2023: November Book Group - "The Little White Horse" by Elizabeth Goudge
Thirteen year old Maria Merryweather, with her governess and her dog, comes to live at Moonacre Manor and discovers she has a part to play in the righting of wrongs in her ancestry.
A mixture of fantasy and reality, where no character or animal is quite what they seem, this is a charming, magical tale of the battle between good and evil.
Whether you are reading for the first time, or rereading, I hope you enjoy it.
A mixture of fantasy and reality, where no character or animal is quite what they seem, this is a charming, magical tale of the battle between good and evil.
Whether you are reading for the first time, or rereading, I hope you enjoy it.
Comments
Dissenting voices often make for a lively discussion.
Was this a reread, or your first time of reading?
If a reread, did some things strike you this time which haven't before?
The book is a mixture of reality, mystery and magic. Were you able to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the story?
Can the book be seen as gothic fiction? In what ways?
Are there some dominant themes?
What part do colours have to play?
The book was written in 1946. Has it aged well?
Do you have any favourite passages or scenes?
Have you read any other books by Elizabeth Goudge? How does this one compare to them?
"Humanity can be roughly divided into three sorts of people - those who find comfort in literature, those who find comfort in personal adornment, and those who find comfort in food..." Do you think this is true? If so, which are you?
Anything else to discuss?
Yes - I love this book and have done since I first read it as a child.
Was this a reread, or your first time of reading?
One of many rereads.
If a reread, did some things strike you this time which haven't before?
A couple of slightly creepy things: the way people let themselves in and out of Maria's bedroom while she's asleep (even going as far as scaling a tree outside in order to get in at the window
The book is a mixture of reality, mystery and magic. Were you able to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the story?
Oh, yes - I loved all the fantastical elements! I took delight in the way that Robin turned out to be a real person, despite Miss Heliotrope not believing in him, and the way the white horse was real, despite most others not believing it.
Can the book be seen as gothic fiction? In what ways?
@MaryLouise is the gothic fiction expert and I hope she'll have some input here.
Are there some dominant themes?
Reconciliation springs to mind as the dominant one: the reconciliation of the Sun and Moon Merryweathers, and the Black Men reconciled with the Merryweather family and the residents of Silverydew. Also true on individual levels, notably Sir Benjamin and Loveday and Old Parson and Miss Heliotrope.
What part do colours have to play?
Two major ones: black, the colour of evil, of night, of the black men. Pink, which divides the characters in the book into those that love it and those that hate it. But there's reconciliation at the end over that as well. And the golden colour of the tawny dog (lion) representing the Sun Merryweathers and the white unicorn for the Moon Merryweathers.
The book was written in 1946. Has it aged well?
I think it's a timeless story of good triumphing over evil, with even the most evil person having some redemptive qualities. Maria is sure that Monsieur Cocq de Noir is a man of his word, and he is. We all hope that even the worst human being has some goodness at their core. There are some gender stereotypes - could "any mere man" be responsible for the exquisite needlework at Moonacre?!
Do you have any favourite passages or scenes?
Maria's first exploration of her bedroom at Moonacre Manor - I can't have been the only thirteen year old girl who longed for a round turret room just like hers. And Robin's proposal - it makes me smile every time.
Have you read any other books by Elizabeth Goudge? How does this one compare to them?
Yes, I've read quite a few; too many to list. This and Henrietta's House are the two "children"'s ones I've read. There are usually recurring themes of forgiveness, reconciliation, happy marriages, wise and loveable clergymen. This one is no exception.
"Humanity can be roughly divided into three sorts of people - those who find comfort in literature, those who find comfort in personal adornment, and those who find comfort in food..." Do you think this is true? If so, which are you?
Mine is not personal adornment but it's certainly true of me with food and literature. I wish it were only the latter as my relationship with the former has rendered me *cough* a shade over six stone *cough* .
Anything else to discuss?
I loved the story of Old Parson and Miss Heliotrope and how Miss Heliotrope described the parsonage as the house of her dreams before she knew the identity of Old Parson. I also loved the animals, endowed with powers of knowledge and communication. I also love the way the book finishes: Maria is happily married with her 10 children but still has a longing for something more, which she knows she will have one day. Do we all have that sense of longing, I wonder?
SPOILERS so please scroll if you haven't got very far yet.
I'm going to come back to your questions this weekend but wanted to respond just a little. This novel was written in 1946 at a time when many British children would vividly recall being evacuated out of cities threatened with bombing raids to the relative safety of the countryside. They would have been sent to distant relatives or boarded with strangers, a disconcerting experience for those children used to town-life, to be displaced and/or bereaved, children who had lost their parents and couldn't go home. This is the opening premise and has gothic possibilities: little Maria has only ever known the comforts of London and now as an orphan is taken on a long journey to Cornwall, into an eerie landscape and an eccentric estate. It could be a frightening place, but Maria finds enchantment and goodness there along with magic (her tower room has the child-sized door, the tiniest fireplace, the kindness of strangers) and an abundance of delicious food that would tantalise those readers subjected to harsh food rationing. The danger and 'gothic' suspense does not lie within fantastical enchanted Moonacre Manor but beyond, in the valley and the incursions of the Men from the Dark Woods.
She has come to a haunted idyll under threat; the villagers live with old secrets, holding onto the memory of a saving myth. Here is an element that for me takes us into the ambience of Alan Garner (Treacle Walker) or CS Lewis, not just a fantasy trope or gothic weirdness but a glimpse of the liminal, what can be retrieved and remembered.
This was the first time I have read this book.
The book is a mixture of reality, mystery and magic. Were you able to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the story?
I read the book as if it were a modern fairy tale and enjoyed the magical aspects. The only bit I couldn't suspend belief about was the men in the forest. They were supposedly the descendants of Sir William Cocq de Noir, but there were no women among them. It would have made more sense if the castle was near a village where whole families lived, ruled by Monsieur Cocq de Noir. The novel didn't really explain why Sir William abandoned his wife and child either or really prove that he was not murdered or had died in some other way in which his body was not found.
Are there some dominant themes?
Breaking curses, marital/romantic relationships and how they can break up over small things, good versus evil, repentance and forgiveness, reconciliation, selfishness and generosity and whatever theme magic animals are.
The book was written in 1946. Has it aged well?
The book mostly aged well, but that made that parts that hadn't aged well stand out more. For example a little person such as Marmaduke Scarlett would be portrayed differently today. He was shown in a positive light, but was still quite stereotyped. I was also taken back by the scene where 13 year old Maria suggests she might marry somebody from London and Robin immediately threatens to kill her, the hypothetical husband and possibly himself. His mother tells him off, but blames Maria as much for goading him into anger. I think a less violent quarrel, such as that of Loveday and Sir Benjamin over pink geraniums would have been more suitable for this scene. Maria and Robin also seemed to get married very young for the 1840s.
Do you have any favourite passages or scenes?
I enjoyed the descriptions of the house and garden and the human interactions with the animals. It was a little confusing if Wrolf was a dog or a lion though. Did he look like a lion, but some enchantment meant that he appeared to people as a dog?
"Humanity can be roughly divided into three sorts of people - those who find comfort in literature, those who find comfort in personal adornment, and those who find comfort in food..." Do you think this is true? If so, which are you?
I don't think this is true as you could find comfort in more than one thing or something other than these three things. I find comfort in food and literature. I think I have mentioned before I have taste synesthesia so I enjoy reading the food descriptions of foods I enjoy because I 'taste' food words or words that sound like or remind me of foods.
Anything else to discuss?[/quote]
I would like to know how I would have experienced this book if I read it as a child. I definitely would have loved the magical parts and descriptions, but I don't know if I would have liked it as much as my other favourites from this genre such as Ruth Chew's children's books or later on Victor Kelleher's fantasy novels for older children.
Yes and no. I know it's a children's book but it was like eating an entire box of Fondant Fancies in one go. Everyone is so cheerful and so smiley, and the animals were a bit twee.
Was this a reread, or your first time of reading?
Re-read.
If a reread, did some things strike you this time which haven't before?
I liked the descriptive elements. They set scenes very clearly in a way modern books tend not to. I don't know how modern children would cope with the vocabulary.
The book is a mixture of reality, mystery and magic. Were you able to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the story?
No, I've been corrupted by the outside world. Robin as a playmate in London was inconceivable. Also, how is Maria able to get married so young? And as someone else has said, where were the women of the Men from the Dark Wood?
Can the book be seen as gothic fiction? In what ways?
It's not dark enough for that IMO.
Are there some dominant themes?
Arguments and reconciliation are the themes throughout. I can't say I was at all impressed by Robin's outburst - definite red flag territory there but again this is a children's book and the product of its time.
What part do colours have to play?
Pink, colour of femininity, rejected by the solar types, until a reconciliation is brought about. The silvery lunar colours attributed to Maria didn't seem to me to suit her at all - much too outgoing and warm for that.
The book was written in 1946. Has it aged well?
Probably not but for what it is, it's enjoyable enough despite being overladen with sugar. I can't see Old Parson settling comfortably into the modern world - "you, stay off the booze, and you, don't think you can get away with doing drugs in my church porch after dark, I won't have it."
Do you have any favourite passages or scenes?
I don't think so.
Have you read any other books by Elizabeth Goudge? How does this one compare to them?
Yes, I've read several and I found them very refreshing at a time when I needed it. The Cities of Bells books are good, the Channel Islands books (about children) were fun, but her best book IMO is far and away Green Dolphin Country, a very well told and insightful adult novel that is one to keep and re-read.
"Humanity can be roughly divided into three sorts of people - those who find comfort in literature, those who find comfort in personal adornment, and those who find comfort in food..." Do you think this is true? If so, which are you?
Probably the lot. Give me something to wear in my favourite colour, a good book and some chocolate, and I'm happy.
Anything else to discuss?
I read Linnets and Valerians as a child and didn't care much for that either. I think she does better with adult novels.
Yes, it felt like something of a homecoming and moving in places, perfect for the weeks before Advent. That said, I'm inclined to agree with @Ariel that at times the tone was too 'twee', coy or sentimental and I wanted a more adult voice or some dryness. I have the same problem with writers like LM Montgomery and Walter de le Mare, too much poetic writing, exquisite scenery, too much charm and niceness without enough gritty everyday reality.
Was this a reread, or your first time of reading?
I'd read it before, about 20 years ago and remembered most of the plot. I liked Robin before, this time not, because of his controlling behaviour and bad-tempered outburst.
If a reread, did some things strike you this time which haven't before?
Because I was thinking about a certain kind of children's novel as allegory or magical fantasy and trying to place Elizabeth Goudge alongside writers like Susan Cooper (The Dark is Rising) or Alan Garner, I thought more about what she set out to achieve here in evoking the West Country I imagine she herself knew as a child after the First World War. I know from other writings, adult novels and memoir, the Goudge herself never married and was prone to bouts of severe depression and some of the escapism here was a consolation for her. I wonder too if her idealism about marriages and living happily ever after was because she didn't marry.
The book is a mixture of reality, mystery and magic. Were you able to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the story?
I've always loved English fiction that draws on medieval Arthurian myths and the folklore of the Mabinogion along with fairytales and the symbolism resonates deeply with me. As with Tolkien, Arthur Machen and Alan Garner, I felt that the author believed deeply in the truths within the myth or folklore.
Can the book be seen as gothic fiction? In what ways?
There are elements that fit with gothic tropes -- and looking through some passages again this weekend, I noticed the tunnels and darkness of the forest -- but the accent isn't on menace or the eerie for the most part, it is about a young girl stepping into a destiny she recognises and has no trouble accepting, the Moon Princess as a white witch or healer.
Are there some dominant themes?
The symbol of the unicorn is a very old one and this was handled beautifully, IMO. It is another symbol both pagan and Christian (not unlike Arthurian themes) and I kept thinking about the poet and artist David Jones and his engraving that shows a Christlike unicorn, mortally wounded with a spear in its side, bleeding into a chalice while bowing to dip its horn into the stream in a shattered forest, the Western Front of WWI with trenches, death, brokenness all around. The scene where the seahorses shining in mist break into the darkness as a great wild white herd was powerful.
What part do colours have to play?
I didn't find the dislike of pink or the quarrel over the salmon-pink geraniums convincing. The black-heartedness of the Men from the Dark Wood was too predictable and the tawny lion Wrolf remained more dog than lion for me. What I did like was the shimmering dreamlike quality of the landscape, the silver and blues, moonlight and the glow of firelight in welcoming rooms.
The book was written in 1946. Has it aged well?
What I found jarring were the invisible servants laying out clothes and flowers for the young heiress, the contented villagers and hierarchy of social roles assigned to characters, although I found the command that the Moon Princess should marry a poor man interesting and the rebuke to Maria's vanity by Old Parson a sharp corrective. The language and tone was too pretty and idealised at moments and yet it had the comfort of a fantasy filled with dreams and glimpses of something beyond, just out of sight.
Do you have any favourite passages or scenes?
I found the grown Maria still looking out and hoping for another sighting of the little white horse, her lone unicorn, to be moving. Her vision of seeing the unicorn one last time when she is ready to go through the portal into the next world, another homecoming, was done with so much delicacy and wistfulness.
Have you read any other books by Elizabeth Goudge? How does this one compare to them?
I've read most of her fictions at one time or another and would like to reread them. I first read her when I was about 14 and was drawn to the sense of a loving, safe and firelit home, mothers protecting daughters, wise lovable parsons as father figures. Her recreations of an older English countryside are gentle and nostalgic.
"Humanity can be roughly divided into three sorts of people - those who find comfort in literature, those who find comfort in personal adornment, and those who find comfort in food..." Do you think this is true? If so, which are you?
This is an interesting question! I'd definitely be one to seek comfort in literature although I prefer tougher challenging reads to cosy ones. And I love cooking and eating, sharing good food with close friends and family, thinking about breaking bread together as a fundamental human ritual that makes sense of our daily lives and nurtures us. In The Little White Horse, there's great emphasis placed on details of clothes, textures and colours, as well as objects and interiors, a longing for the aesthetic, what is beautiful and gestures towards enchantment in a child's eye.
Anything else to discuss?
I wasn't as bothered by Maria marrying at a young age because the fairytale aspect meant I didn't think of the details as realist. Her 10 children sounds like the three weddings at the end, a play on numbers and not something probable. What struck me though was that her destiny had been completed once she had reunited the warring factions and done some matchmaking. That felt a little like a betrayal of the fey, feisty girl we meet right at the beginning of the book, someone who 'sees' things others can't and frightens Miss Heliotrope and Sir Benjamin. I'd like to have seen Maria grow into a formidable healer and wise woman, at home with her remarkable cat, working with herbs, uncanny insights and a faith holding together the legends of faery and the old Christian myths of old England.
Yes, though maybe not quite so much as I did some other times I've read it.
Was this a reread, or your first time of reading?
I think I've read this some four or five times. The first time i was probably in my 20s and it would have been a book I picked up to read while working in a library.
If a reread, did some things strike you this time which haven't before?
The early marriage bothered me a bit more than it had done last time, as did the relationship between Maria and Robin. Not quite sure why that is.
The book is a mixture of reality, mystery and magic. Were you able to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the story?
I always think that as long as the structure of the world in which the story is set obey the rules of that world I totally believe it. I certainly believed in this one.
Can the book be seen as gothic fiction? In what ways?
I hadn't thought of it as being gothic fiction, but the start when they are going to a strange place and do not know what to expect is pure gothic (think Dracula), but the story doesn't develop in a gothic way, everyone is too nice, if a little mysterious.
Are there some dominant themes?
Obedience seems to be quite a strong theme, the way that Maria has to govern her temper (which isn't very much of a one) and the need to fulfil the prophecy that the Moon and Sun Merryweathers had to forgo their differences for peace to prevail
What part do colours have to play? Obviously the dislike of pink is an important part of the story and I like the way shades of purple are associated with Miss Heliotrope
The book was written in 1946. Has it aged well?
I think it has, being set in a fantasy past means it hasn't aged in the ways stories from the same time set in the 1940s have.
Do you have any favourite passages or scenes?
I like the beginning when we are introduced to Maria, Wiggins and Miss Heliotrope. It's a great description of a journey into the unknown and a good introduction to the characters.
Have you read any other books by Elizabeth Goudge? How does this one compare to them?
I've read quite a few, and enjoyed them all, though reading them back to back is a bit like overdosing on a box of chocolates
I confess until now it hadn't even occurred to me about the lack of any mention of the women who must have been involved in the production of the descendants of Sir William. It would have been good if they'd had a part in the story. Nor, to my shame, had the violence and male entitlement inherent in Robin's marriage proposal occurred to me.
That's interesting and puts me very much in mind of Froniga, the White Witch character in Elizabeth Goudge's book of that name which we read last year. I'd like to see that version of the story too.
It got me thinking a bit about the nature of arguments and how they are seldom about the thing that precipitates them. Loveday says that she and Sir Benjamin quarrelled over the pink geraniums but of course it wasn't really about them; it was about how Loveday and Sir Benjamin's beloved mother never got on with each other.
I probably couldn't read several Elizabeth Goudge books back to back unless, as happens at times, I am desperate for an escape into a world where all the flowers bloom and the sun always shines on a wedding, good always triumphs and broken relationships are always restored.
I enjoyed the work as a good representation of young adult fantasy literature and a product of its time.
Was this a reread, or your first time of reading?
First read.
If a reread, did some things strike you this time which haven't before?
N/A
The book is a mixture of reality, mystery and magic. Were you able to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the story?
Yes, because that genre requires an active suspension of disbelief.
Can the book be seen as gothic fiction? In what ways?
Probably not. It does tick a few of the boxes but it does not seem to have an overarching sense of fear, haunting etc.
Are there some dominant themes?
Bringing a world out of joint to resolution.
What part do colours have to play?
White and black in the usual senses. The division over pink provides some elements of comic relief.
The book was written in 1946. Has it aged well?
It’s still enjoyable but would be harder for young adults now to relate to in any meaningful way. They would also be sent constantly to dictionaries to look at 19 c. terms.
Have you read any other books by Elizabeth Goudge? How does this one compare to them?
No
When I saw the similarities between Wrolf the tawny dog lion and CS Lewis' Aslan, I thought the latter must have read Goudge, but apparently (citing John Gough) there are no references to Goudge's books in Lewis' correspondence.
Did you enjoy the book?
I did. It was a nice light distraction that was what I needed at the time.
Was this a reread, or your first time of reading?
First time for me!
The book is a mixture of reality, mystery and magic. Were you able to suspend disbelief in order to enjoy the story?
It's generally pretty easy for me to get into the world of whatever I happen to be reading. This was an interesting combo of reality, mystery and magic which was unlike most of the fiction books I have read.
Are there some dominant themes?
Acceptance and forgiveness seemed to grab my attention.
What part do colours have to play?
Getting into a long separation over the color pink was really silly. I guess there had to be a reason for the disagreement!
The book was written in 1946. Has it aged well?
As a cautionary tale about relationships, it has aged well. But reading this book caused me to struggle with my memories of how women were (and still are) treated. Let's not go back to those days.
Do you have any favourite passages or scenes?
Several favorites! Seeing the unicorn was so much fun!
Have you read any other books by Elizabeth Goudge? How does this one compare to them?
No.
"Humanity can be roughly divided into three sorts of people - those who find comfort in literature, those who find comfort in personal adornment, and those who find comfort in food..." Do you think this is true? If so, which are you?
All three for me.