Thank you for sharing all of that, @Gramps49. It sounds painful.
I was on the search committee for our current pastor. The previous pastorate, though it had been good for many years, had ended very, very badly. In fact, we came to recognize that was a pattern over the last three pastorates—many good years with a not-as-good ending, though the last one was by far the worst ending. Our interim pastor worked hard on healing in the congregation and on leading us in some real reflection. (As a result, we didn’t even start the process of looking for a new pastor until a year-and-a-half after the previous pastor left.)
When we started talking with candidates, we felt an obligation to be as open as we could be about the history. We gave candidates the names of references who were familiar with what had gone on so they could get an outsider’s perspective. We attempted to be honest about the congregation’s role in the breakdown, as well as about what we’d learned. And the what-we’d-learned part prompted questions to the candidates about self-care and what they’d need from the us to help them care for themselves and their families. We felt that doing anything less would be unethical and would set us all up for failure.
I’m very sorry you went through what you did, and I’m sorry the support system wasn’t there for you and your family.
Thank you for your response, Nick.
Regarding your approach to calling a new pastor. I think you all went through a good process.
Since joining my current congregation as a member, we have gone through three changes in the pastorate. As in the case of your experience, we had a pastor who violated some professional boundaries. Come to find out it had not been the first time. He had similar experiences in a previous parish that had been covered up.
The bishop intervened before it got out to the congregation and asked for his resignation. But when it did get to the congregation we had a big blow up. Somehow, I was accused of ratting out on him; but in fact, I was one of the last to know! Anyway, we went through a two year interim ministry before we got to the point of being ready for a call.
I avoid being on call committees, but I know the history of our congregation is well known to the candidates. We have taken the same approach as your congregation.
We now have a pastor who is reaching retirement age. His wife just retired from her position at university, so we expect him to retire in probably a year. I have to say I have noticed a slowing down in his ministry. He is not very game in coming up with new approaches now. Nevertheless, through his tenure we have had a successful fifteen years. God has blessed us. When it is time, we will be sad to see him go. But, I think we will be ready.
Such an interesting thread, I do enjoy reading the experiences of others and the perspectives they bring. So many resonances...
Husband is a grandchild of clergy and of all the children (6) to my knowledge only 4 were participants in their local parishes. That's ok, but I do wonder to what extent their observations of Parish life made them want to distance themselves from it.
Grandfather had several tiny centres to minister in as well as the main parish congregation. He retired in his late 60's due to wife's ill health and I think having reached a stage of life where both were less able to cope with families brining their domestic disputes to the Rectory. I think there would have been a certain amount of isolation in being responsible for the Pastoral Care of others and the very small number of people with whom you would be able to share that with. In the 1940s and 50s there would have been far fewer additional services one could refer people on to. He went on in retirement to have a very committed hospital ministry.
Our own experiences have been of Parish division over poor maintenance of Rectory and Minister feeling (rightly in my opinion), uncared for by the Parish. Bishop moved him elsewhere and the Parish I think learnt they needed to pick up their attitude in terms of responsibility to caring for the Rectory family. Rectory was restored and halls have been upgraded and the Parish is growing. Greater sense of responsibility of caring for one another seemed to be the outcome of the crisis. Just awful that no one joined the dots before that happened.
Second Parish had a Minister experiencing ill-health but unable to see that trying to persist in Ministry was damaging both them and the Congregation. After a lengthy period of sick leave they accepted they could not return to full capacity and retired. It was hard all round as people were creeping around not knowing how best to handle the situation and the Parish in limbo. Having been a husband and wife team, the wife retired at the expected age, but the husband would not do so and I suspect tried to do the work of both of them. Not sustainable and definitely not for an extended period. I feel sad for them that they felt unable to ask for more help via Bishop, or from PC. I do think some PC members were part of the problem as there were some dodgy private meeting happening where it seemed decisions were made that PC was expected to rubber stamp. It was sad to see them refusing to accept that it was getting to be too much for them.
It was sad all around and some folk decided to go elsewhere, either because they thought that the Parish was being awful to the Priest, or they felt the Priest was blocking efforts to change and grow. Unfortunately the great proportion of those who left were in the 20's thus cutting the potential pool of candidates for Parish lay leadership and currently at nearly 60 I'm one of the younger members with maybe a couple of couples younger than myself. We have more members in their 70s 80s and 90s who are still active, then a massive gap to the mostly unchurched who the Parish reaches through annual carols, a Mainly Music program and contact with the local High School. I am not attending regularly, but don't see an influx of younger people to allow either clergy or laity to have a break from the roles they currently fill.
I would confess that I'm not putting my hand up to take on any roles as I have different priorities to most other Parish members and I'm not dancing to anyone else's tune or putting effort into things I don't really believe in. And I'm fed up with women being shuffled into the roles of secretaries, child workers and caterers.
Perhaps there is a need for both clergy and laity to have training in how to recognise signs of burn out in themselves and where to find help.
You touch on the subject of pastoral families' children and what happens to them when they grow up. The subject has been much on my mind since we had our son, because of course our ministry is just as traumatizing as normal and a bit more, I think, given the high proportion of PTSD among our membership (100% above age 50).
We had only the one child, and so it was doubtless much easier to shield him (not completely!) from the chaos the parish. And when we could not, we sat him down and let him ask us questions, and gave him the best age-appropriate explanations we could--and also resources to draw on if he was getting stressed. We were honest with him about the difficulties of caring for people, and the pain that inevitably causes the carers. And now I'm torn between "Well, that worked well" and "Fuckity fuck, that was maybe a mistake" because he wants to become a pastor and is set to enter seminary next year.
We probably need some kind of center or institute that focuses on children of pastors' families and provides resources, programs, etc. for them. Because it's hella difficult to have to explain to a 12 year old about people with classic cases of sociopathy and histrionic personality disorder, and the very predictable chaos they sow in the church in their wake. (Yes, we know that's what it was, Mr. Lamb is a fully trained professional counselor and well able to diagnosis.)
I too think that clergy kids could use more support and I suspect many find support through camps and reunions and staying in touch with other clergy kids throughsocial media.
I remember my boss in the early '90s wanting to set up a trial of what I think must have been bulletin boards through the public library, he was Chief at the time. As he wanted to keep it small he selected 3 groups to work with that he'd identified as being at risk of experiencing isolation because of the type of work they dd. One was winemakers, one was clergy and I've forgotten the third now. I don't know if this ever got off the ground as I moved away and resigned my position. I thought he was onto something for sure!
As a lurker I've ready many of your posts @Lamb Chopped and imagine you did a pretty good job with debriefing your son! I wish I'd been so aware of providing support to the sibling of our cancer kid. They had many tough times and I don't think I helped in the way they needed at all.
To correct my post above I think only 3 of the 6 kids were active in their communities. Not a judgement but an observation. I do remember my Mother In Law saying how stressful it was at Christmas and Easter having to wait for Grandpa to return home from official commitments. Sometimes we forget what the families experience and the loss of normal life (whatever that is)
I was a vicarage kid and don't think I suffered particularly. Yes there was some weirdness about my dad leading assembly at my school every week but it wasn't like my peers were short of things to bully me about. Two of the three of us are active in church life, which is probably a better success ratio than most Christian families in the UK. I remember evening PCC meetings in the living room, tramps showing up wanting a cup of tea and a sandwich or a lift somewhere, reasonably frequent lunches with Archdeacons and Bishops (the former generally bonkers, the latter pretty decent). I remember when the local aerospace factory switched from multi-purpose aircraft to explicitly combat craft and my dad, as chaplain, had to deal with the fallout for some workers.
My step-son was bold enough to announce, at his father’s service of thanksgiving, in front of at least six clergy in the all-Christian congregation, that he is an atheist. In fact I don’t know of any children of my Christian contemporaries who have stuck with church.
Nor do I know of any who have gone off the rails for that matter.
As Gramps49 points out, money can get in the way. Particularly in independent nonconformist churches. Particularly in an age of declining congregations and declining financial support.
Part of the burden of congregational expectations is the implied responsibility on pastors to grow churches in decline. And there’s another factor best put by a long term friend, when it comes to leading churches.
“After 5 years, you get tired”.
It’s quite hard for pastors and priests to admit their own vulnerability. It can sound like a failure. Being both vulnerable and available isn’t so easy. Pastors can get worn out by the pressure.
@Barnabas62 I do like your thoughts on this. I wonder if sometimes the problem is the Congregation fails to both recognise their Pastor is tired and they are tired too!
I wonder if we try to do too many things, when perhaps we need a process where half the team is on the bench taking a break and the other on the field and then we swap. I recognise this is easier for the Congregation to achieve than it is for the Pastor.
As Congregations shrink we need to get smarter and work out how to work well with either other denominations locally, other parishes of the same denomination and I think preferably both. It sounds easy, but I know how much commitment and organisation that might take too!
There's a good story that came out of the Willow Creek church that might fit in here. Following the loss of the volunteer leader of the children's work, the pastor used a talk which had become notorious in his congregation. A classic piece of emotional blackmail about the impact on the children, their parents, and the life of the church of the vacancy could not be filled. He laid it on thick then publicly called for a volunteer to "save the children and save the church". After a thirty second silence one member couldn't stand the silence and the pressure, and volunteered!
It really wasn't his thing but he tried very hard. However under his leadership the work declined, parents criticised, and after a very unhappy year, the volunteer stood down. Vowing privately that he would NEVER volunteer for anything ever again. Now the purpose of the story was to encourage the identification of gifts within the congregation to help clarify who might be good at volunteer roles, rather than filling them by putting square legs in round holes.
But it occurs to me that this is another serious pressure on pastors. Maintaining roles perceived to be essential and organising volunteer support. Far too often, over-busy people end up picking up the slack. And one of the over-busy people is inevitably the pastor.
Cheery Gardner, I think there is an oncoming need in these difficult times to help congregations to be more realistic about resource limitations, both financial and human. Instead of looking for someone to blame, which unfortunately happens more than it should.
We were recently presented with a list of "positions" that it was felt necessary to have filled to demonstrate to presbytery that we are "viable". Call me old fashioned, but I think making sure folk in offices in Edinburgh have someone to send emails to about particular topics is not in itself a measure of viability.
I was recently chatting with a young priest, ordained less than five years. He had been a lawyer before ordination. He now finds that he is diocesan chancellor, in charge of the diocesan legal department and running a large parish on the edge of a major city at the othert end of the diocese from the offices. It would be an understatement to say that he was stretched to breaking point.
It costs nothing to have a priest run a diocesan admin department, but a lay person would command a hefty salary.
Our parish priests for the last 30 years have all had major full-time diocesan jobs. One left the priesthood, another went to Rome to head a small seminary, and our present one seems to fall ill regularly. He is presently recovering from a serious illness that is likely to keep him out of action for some time.
There is a good case for combining diocesan administrations in central hubs.
The statement that “After 5 years, you get tired” makes sense, but in practice, it takes so long to train clergy for the job that having people quit after 5 years would lead to a serious shortage. The same applies to nurses and educators and, maybe to a lesser extent, to police and emergency personnel.
My wife is a retired Primary Teacher. By the time she was in her fifties she was simply exhausted - small children may be delightful but they are tiring! She therefore opted for part-timer work.
The statement that “After 5 years, you get tired” makes sense, but in practice, it takes so long to train clergy for the job that having people quit after 5 years would lead to a serious shortage. The same applies to nurses and educators and, maybe to a lesser extent, to police and emergency personnel.
I think it's true that five years in the same job may be wearing...at which point, it might be best for the clergyperson concerned to move on to pastures new.
AIUI, C of E clergy are often licensed to a particular parish for this length of time these days - with the option to carry on for longer, if circumstances warrant it!
I think it's true that five years in the same job may be wearing...at which point, it might be best for the clergyperson concerned to move on to pastures new.
Except, as I understand, the most fruitful years of a person's ministry come after that ... although folk can, of course, stay too long!
But it occurs to me that this is another serious pressure on pastors. Maintaining roles perceived to be essential and organising volunteer support. Far too often, over-busy people end up picking up the slack. And one of the over-busy people is inevitably the pastor.
That's one problem with professionalizing this one role in the church -- the pastor is the ultimate back-up for everything.
But it occurs to me that this is another serious pressure on pastors. Maintaining roles perceived to be essential and organising volunteer support. Far too often, over-busy people end up picking up the slack. And one of the over-busy people is inevitably the pastor.
That's one problem with professionalizing this one role in the church -- the pastor is the ultimate back-up for everything.
Very true. Here (UK) very many churches can’t afford to professionalize other roles, often sharing a pastor between two or more churches. In some places there are paid administrators, and organists/ directors of music are sometimes a paid role, but very rarely full time. So maybe the solution is to de-professonalize the pastor - though I’m not sure how that would work in practice.
The statement that “After 5 years, you get tired” makes sense, but in practice, it takes so long to train clergy for the job that having people quit after 5 years would lead to a serious shortage. The same applies to nurses and educators and, maybe to a lesser extent, to police and emergency personnel.
I think it's true that five years in the same job may be wearing...at which point, it might be best for the clergyperson concerned to move on to pastures new.
AIUI, C of E clergy are often licensed to a particular parish for this length of time these days - with the option to carry on for longer, if circumstances warrant it!
Not now. Common Tenure posts are not time limited. Interim ministers are, AIUI, the only posts that can be time limited, and that for a maximum of three years.
In my denomination, ministers are required to take sabbaticals every seven years now. During that time congregations are encouraged to do some refreshment activities as well.
To clarify. The organisation and management of volunteer resources is, I believe, more demanding on leaders than in paid resource environments. The incentive to do the volunteer work, and continue to do it, is in the heart and mind of the volunteer.
Speaking as someone who worked as a volunteer leader in children’s and youth work in churches, for 30 years (from the age of 30 to 60). Truth is, I never had a sabbatical, and very rarely got tired of doing it. Age and ill health caught up with me in the end. It helped that I did the work in partnership with my wife. But our longevity was rare.
I use the word “calling” very carefully these days. That’s what it felt like for us. It helped us to deal with the frustrations and disappointments.
What I think is much more common for volunteers is to go through the well known cycle,
Wild enthusiasm
Confusion
Disillusionment.
Pastors have to deal with that, as well as the parallel issues of training and identifying unsuitability. That’s really not easy, particularly if the volunteers are supporting what is regarded as an essential part of church life. IME it is a major cause of leadership burn out. They just get tired of the hassle.
I'd agree with all that. One difficulty with managing volunteers is those who decide they will do things "their way" even though decisions about running the activity have been made by others. Yes, they may have useful new ideas to bring - but they can't just "go it alone". When they do (and then walk away in disgust) it's usually the pastor who ends up having to soothe the ruffled feathers of everyone else. This can even happen when the rules aren't just a matter of local opinion and decision but are legally imposed from outside (eg H&S).
I started mulling this when I read the thread through this morning, and initially it was just to be contrarian in the spirit of 'what would it look like if it was more like this...?' but the more I thought about it, the more I thought there was actually a case for it.
Burnt out clergy burn out their parishioners IME - so what if we're looking through the wrong end of the telescope (certainly in the CofE)?
What if far from 5 years to have an 'impact' and then go somewhere else, the expectation, along with the restoration of parson's freehold and possibly glebe (while we're at it) was that an incumbent might do 20 years in post as a norm?
Arguably, give the vicar/rector (I'm talking specifically CofE here) a much longer tenure and much more freedom to do what they want, and it takes some of the pressure off - and it also takes it off the parishioners (I know whereof I speak) who have to put up with a cycle of 18 month interregnum, new incumbent with Big Ideas, blizzard of activity, loss of interest, 18 month interregnum.
I know that could mean you were stuck with someone who had lost all interest for a decade or so, but at least you'd know where you stand. Especially in the rural church, the endless cycle of change is exhausting for everyone, and I'm not always convinced that (some) priests understand the impact of it all on 'their' laity.
Now, that is not for a moment to minimise the very real issues of clergy burn-out, to which this thread repeatedly attests, but I wonder if seeing it in isolation as a 'clergy' problem is helpful?
It’s a fair point. I would add only that I have also seen congregations burned out by non-burnt-out clergy who have grandiose and unrealistic visions. Charismatic (not meant theologically) leaders have the power to lead willing congregations up blind alleys, then blame the failures on them. The damage can take a long time to get over.
Of course the reverse is true, that congregations can have unrealistic expectations of leaders. In those cases the blame gets pointed in the other direction.
It does make me think that the underlying disease of unrealistic expectations is actually the real issue. Fundamentally it shows a lack of love.
Comments
Oh, it left scars.
Thank you for your response, Nick.
Regarding your approach to calling a new pastor. I think you all went through a good process.
Since joining my current congregation as a member, we have gone through three changes in the pastorate. As in the case of your experience, we had a pastor who violated some professional boundaries. Come to find out it had not been the first time. He had similar experiences in a previous parish that had been covered up.
The bishop intervened before it got out to the congregation and asked for his resignation. But when it did get to the congregation we had a big blow up. Somehow, I was accused of ratting out on him; but in fact, I was one of the last to know! Anyway, we went through a two year interim ministry before we got to the point of being ready for a call.
I avoid being on call committees, but I know the history of our congregation is well known to the candidates. We have taken the same approach as your congregation.
We now have a pastor who is reaching retirement age. His wife just retired from her position at university, so we expect him to retire in probably a year. I have to say I have noticed a slowing down in his ministry. He is not very game in coming up with new approaches now. Nevertheless, through his tenure we have had a successful fifteen years. God has blessed us. When it is time, we will be sad to see him go. But, I think we will be ready.
Husband is a grandchild of clergy and of all the children (6) to my knowledge only 4 were participants in their local parishes. That's ok, but I do wonder to what extent their observations of Parish life made them want to distance themselves from it.
Grandfather had several tiny centres to minister in as well as the main parish congregation. He retired in his late 60's due to wife's ill health and I think having reached a stage of life where both were less able to cope with families brining their domestic disputes to the Rectory. I think there would have been a certain amount of isolation in being responsible for the Pastoral Care of others and the very small number of people with whom you would be able to share that with. In the 1940s and 50s there would have been far fewer additional services one could refer people on to. He went on in retirement to have a very committed hospital ministry.
Our own experiences have been of Parish division over poor maintenance of Rectory and Minister feeling (rightly in my opinion), uncared for by the Parish. Bishop moved him elsewhere and the Parish I think learnt they needed to pick up their attitude in terms of responsibility to caring for the Rectory family. Rectory was restored and halls have been upgraded and the Parish is growing. Greater sense of responsibility of caring for one another seemed to be the outcome of the crisis. Just awful that no one joined the dots before that happened.
Second Parish had a Minister experiencing ill-health but unable to see that trying to persist in Ministry was damaging both them and the Congregation. After a lengthy period of sick leave they accepted they could not return to full capacity and retired. It was hard all round as people were creeping around not knowing how best to handle the situation and the Parish in limbo. Having been a husband and wife team, the wife retired at the expected age, but the husband would not do so and I suspect tried to do the work of both of them. Not sustainable and definitely not for an extended period. I feel sad for them that they felt unable to ask for more help via Bishop, or from PC. I do think some PC members were part of the problem as there were some dodgy private meeting happening where it seemed decisions were made that PC was expected to rubber stamp. It was sad to see them refusing to accept that it was getting to be too much for them.
It was sad all around and some folk decided to go elsewhere, either because they thought that the Parish was being awful to the Priest, or they felt the Priest was blocking efforts to change and grow. Unfortunately the great proportion of those who left were in the 20's thus cutting the potential pool of candidates for Parish lay leadership and currently at nearly 60 I'm one of the younger members with maybe a couple of couples younger than myself. We have more members in their 70s 80s and 90s who are still active, then a massive gap to the mostly unchurched who the Parish reaches through annual carols, a Mainly Music program and contact with the local High School. I am not attending regularly, but don't see an influx of younger people to allow either clergy or laity to have a break from the roles they currently fill.
I would confess that I'm not putting my hand up to take on any roles as I have different priorities to most other Parish members and I'm not dancing to anyone else's tune or putting effort into things I don't really believe in. And I'm fed up with women being shuffled into the roles of secretaries, child workers and caterers.
Perhaps there is a need for both clergy and laity to have training in how to recognise signs of burn out in themselves and where to find help.
We had only the one child, and so it was doubtless much easier to shield him (not completely!) from the chaos the parish. And when we could not, we sat him down and let him ask us questions, and gave him the best age-appropriate explanations we could--and also resources to draw on if he was getting stressed. We were honest with him about the difficulties of caring for people, and the pain that inevitably causes the carers. And now I'm torn between "Well, that worked well" and "Fuckity fuck, that was maybe a mistake" because he wants to become a pastor and is set to enter seminary next year.
We probably need some kind of center or institute that focuses on children of pastors' families and provides resources, programs, etc. for them. Because it's hella difficult to have to explain to a 12 year old about people with classic cases of sociopathy and histrionic personality disorder, and the very predictable chaos they sow in the church in their wake. (Yes, we know that's what it was, Mr. Lamb is a fully trained professional counselor and well able to diagnosis.)
I remember my boss in the early '90s wanting to set up a trial of what I think must have been bulletin boards through the public library, he was Chief at the time. As he wanted to keep it small he selected 3 groups to work with that he'd identified as being at risk of experiencing isolation because of the type of work they dd. One was winemakers, one was clergy and I've forgotten the third now. I don't know if this ever got off the ground as I moved away and resigned my position. I thought he was onto something for sure!
As a lurker I've ready many of your posts @Lamb Chopped and imagine you did a pretty good job with debriefing your son! I wish I'd been so aware of providing support to the sibling of our cancer kid. They had many tough times and I don't think I helped in the way they needed at all.
To correct my post above I think only 3 of the 6 kids were active in their communities. Not a judgement but an observation. I do remember my Mother In Law saying how stressful it was at Christmas and Easter having to wait for Grandpa to return home from official commitments. Sometimes we forget what the families experience and the loss of normal life (whatever that is)
Nor do I know of any who have gone off the rails for that matter.
As Gramps49 points out, money can get in the way. Particularly in independent nonconformist churches. Particularly in an age of declining congregations and declining financial support.
Part of the burden of congregational expectations is the implied responsibility on pastors to grow churches in decline. And there’s another factor best put by a long term friend, when it comes to leading churches.
“After 5 years, you get tired”.
It’s quite hard for pastors and priests to admit their own vulnerability. It can sound like a failure. Being both vulnerable and available isn’t so easy. Pastors can get worn out by the pressure.
I wonder if we try to do too many things, when perhaps we need a process where half the team is on the bench taking a break and the other on the field and then we swap. I recognise this is easier for the Congregation to achieve than it is for the Pastor.
As Congregations shrink we need to get smarter and work out how to work well with either other denominations locally, other parishes of the same denomination and I think preferably both. It sounds easy, but I know how much commitment and organisation that might take too!
It really wasn't his thing but he tried very hard. However under his leadership the work declined, parents criticised, and after a very unhappy year, the volunteer stood down. Vowing privately that he would NEVER volunteer for anything ever again. Now the purpose of the story was to encourage the identification of gifts within the congregation to help clarify who might be good at volunteer roles, rather than filling them by putting square legs in round holes.
But it occurs to me that this is another serious pressure on pastors. Maintaining roles perceived to be essential and organising volunteer support. Far too often, over-busy people end up picking up the slack. And one of the over-busy people is inevitably the pastor.
Cheery Gardner, I think there is an oncoming need in these difficult times to help congregations to be more realistic about resource limitations, both financial and human. Instead of looking for someone to blame, which unfortunately happens more than it should.
It costs nothing to have a priest run a diocesan admin department, but a lay person would command a hefty salary.
Our parish priests for the last 30 years have all had major full-time diocesan jobs. One left the priesthood, another went to Rome to head a small seminary, and our present one seems to fall ill regularly. He is presently recovering from a serious illness that is likely to keep him out of action for some time.
There is a good case for combining diocesan administrations in central hubs.
I think it's true that five years in the same job may be wearing...at which point, it might be best for the clergyperson concerned to move on to pastures new.
AIUI, C of E clergy are often licensed to a particular parish for this length of time these days - with the option to carry on for longer, if circumstances warrant it!
That's one problem with professionalizing this one role in the church -- the pastor is the ultimate back-up for everything.
Very true. Here (UK) very many churches can’t afford to professionalize other roles, often sharing a pastor between two or more churches. In some places there are paid administrators, and organists/ directors of music are sometimes a paid role, but very rarely full time. So maybe the solution is to de-professonalize the pastor - though I’m not sure how that would work in practice. Not now. Common Tenure posts are not time limited. Interim ministers are, AIUI, the only posts that can be time limited, and that for a maximum of three years.
Speaking as someone who worked as a volunteer leader in children’s and youth work in churches, for 30 years (from the age of 30 to 60). Truth is, I never had a sabbatical, and very rarely got tired of doing it. Age and ill health caught up with me in the end. It helped that I did the work in partnership with my wife. But our longevity was rare.
I use the word “calling” very carefully these days. That’s what it felt like for us. It helped us to deal with the frustrations and disappointments.
What I think is much more common for volunteers is to go through the well known cycle,
Wild enthusiasm
Confusion
Disillusionment.
Pastors have to deal with that, as well as the parallel issues of training and identifying unsuitability. That’s really not easy, particularly if the volunteers are supporting what is regarded as an essential part of church life. IME it is a major cause of leadership burn out. They just get tired of the hassle.
Burnt out clergy burn out their parishioners IME - so what if we're looking through the wrong end of the telescope (certainly in the CofE)?
What if far from 5 years to have an 'impact' and then go somewhere else, the expectation, along with the restoration of parson's freehold and possibly glebe (while we're at it) was that an incumbent might do 20 years in post as a norm?
Arguably, give the vicar/rector (I'm talking specifically CofE here) a much longer tenure and much more freedom to do what they want, and it takes some of the pressure off - and it also takes it off the parishioners (I know whereof I speak) who have to put up with a cycle of 18 month interregnum, new incumbent with Big Ideas, blizzard of activity, loss of interest, 18 month interregnum.
I know that could mean you were stuck with someone who had lost all interest for a decade or so, but at least you'd know where you stand. Especially in the rural church, the endless cycle of change is exhausting for everyone, and I'm not always convinced that (some) priests understand the impact of it all on 'their' laity.
Now, that is not for a moment to minimise the very real issues of clergy burn-out, to which this thread repeatedly attests, but I wonder if seeing it in isolation as a 'clergy' problem is helpful?
It’s a fair point. I would add only that I have also seen congregations burned out by non-burnt-out clergy who have grandiose and unrealistic visions. Charismatic (not meant theologically) leaders have the power to lead willing congregations up blind alleys, then blame the failures on them. The damage can take a long time to get over.
Of course the reverse is true, that congregations can have unrealistic expectations of leaders. In those cases the blame gets pointed in the other direction.
It does make me think that the underlying disease of unrealistic expectations is actually the real issue. Fundamentally it shows a lack of love.