The trials and tribulations of an ex-president (including SCOTUS on the 14th amendment)

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  • Do they sell industrial strength zippers, and can they be installed on a biological substrate? with a padlock, of course.

    Trump as zippy. They bear (sorry) comparison...
  • I could only wish.
  • I could only wish.

    Not only.
    I think eventually he will be convicted of something.

    His sentence will be some form of house arrest without Internet access of the ability to talk to the media.

    How long oh Lord?

    But I do think it's gonna happen.

    AFZ
  • From your (unzipped) mouth to God's ear...
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    I don't know that I agree about his possible sentence. There are minimum-security prisons available.
  • jedijudyjedijudy Heaven Host
    From your (unzipped) mouth to God's ear...

    Amen!!
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Have you noticed how Trump is now saying it is the American thing to drink Bud Light again? A year ago Bud Light made a play for LBGTQ+ customers. The hard right reacted by boycotting it.

    When Trump was president, he tried to ban TikTok as a tool of the Chinese Intelligence. Just last week the Energy and Commerce Committee of the House of Representatives unanimously referred a bill to the full House banning TikTok unless it is sold to a company not affiliated with the Chinese government. President Biden even said he would sign it once it passed both the House and the Senate. Suddenly, today Trump comes out saying he wants to save TikTok. The real enemy of the people is Facebook.

    What is going on? Why the sudden about face for both products? Could it be Bud Light found favor with Trump when its lobbyist hosted a $10,000 a plate dinner for Mr. Trump?
    Could it be one of the major investors in TikTok visited Trump at Mar A Lago and gave T a significant contribution for his campaign?

    Ka Ching. Trump is apparently for sale. After all, he just had to post a 100-million-dollar bond for one suet, and he will have to post a half billion-dollar bond for another suet in the next couple of weeks.

    It appears he will be using such contributions to fund the two bonds.

    I wonder what else he will have for sale shortly for which people will pay money? (Hint: once Trump officially secures the Republican nomination, the American Intelligence Community is required to brief him on the current state of world affairs.)

    If a normal person is seeking top secret clearance, they would have to go through an FBI background check which would look at excessive debt obligations. Such people tend to sell secrets to people no so friendly with the United States, I know this because I had to go through such a background check when I was in the military (I passed, Trump would not),
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Have you noticed how Trump is now saying it is the American thing to drink Bud Light again? A year ago Bud Light made a play for LBGTQ+ customers. The hard right reacted by boycotting it.

    When Trump was president, he tried to ban TikTok as a tool of the Chinese Intelligence. Just last week the Energy and Commerce Committee of the House of Representatives unanimously referred a bill to the full House banning TikTok unless it is sold to a company not affiliated with the Chinese government. President Biden even said he would sign it once it passed both the House and the Senate. Suddenly, today Trump comes out saying he wants to save TikTok. The real enemy of the people is Facebook.

    What is going on? Why the sudden about face for both products? Could it be Bud Light found favor with Trump when its lobbyist hosted a $10,000 a plate dinner for Mr. Trump?
    Could it be one of the major investors in TikTok visited Trump at Mar A Lago and gave T a significant contribution for his campaign?

    Ka Ching. Trump is apparently for sale. After all, he just had to post a 100-million-dollar bond for one suet, and he will have to post a half billion-dollar bond for another suet in the next couple of weeks.

    It appears he will be using such contributions to fund the two bonds.

    I wonder what else he will have for sale shortly for which people will pay money? (Hint: once Trump officially secures the Republican nomination, the American Intelligence Community is required to brief him on the current state of world affairs.)

    If a normal person is seeking top secret clearance, they would have to go through an FBI background check which would look at excessive debt obligations. Such people tend to sell secrets to people no so friendly with the United States, I know this because I had to go through such a background check when I was in the military (I passed, Trump would not),

    When I first read this I thought Ka Ching was the guy from Tik Toc. I would normally write it as Kerching.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    I think eventually he will be convicted of something.

    The New York state criminal trial on the Stormy Daniels matter is scheduled to start later this month. The crime Trump is accused of committing, felony falsifying business records, is one that rarely results in prison time unless coupled with other offenses.

    Trump is now, somewhat hilariously, demanding that this trial be delayed until the U.S. Supreme Court rules on the presidential immunity case. I guess the underlying argument is that presidential immunity is not only comprehensive it's also retroactive, covering crimes allegedly committed before Trump became president.
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Have you noticed how Trump is now saying it is the American thing to drink Bud Light again? A year ago Bud Light made a play for LBGTQ+ customers. The hard right reacted by boycotting it.

    Donald Trump, Sr. rather famously does not consume alcohol, making this endorsement kind of hilarious.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Following up on this, former Trump advisor Peter Navarro (a.k.a. inmate 04370-510) has been ordered to report to prison next week.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Trump is now, somewhat hilariously, demanding that this trial be delayed until the U.S. Supreme Court rules on the presidential immunity case. I guess the underlying argument is that presidential immunity is not only comprehensive it's also retroactive, covering crimes allegedly committed before Trump became president.

    Now, that is quite special.
    Even by Trump's standards.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Isn't the hush money trial based on New York state law? Federal immunity does not apply.
  • Gramps49 wrote: »
    Isn't the hush money trial based on New York state law? Federal immunity does not apply.

    Indeed. Except in Trump's mind.

    But then he's spent his whole life being immune to consequences. It's all he's known.
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    Trump says he does not consume alcohol. I don't know that I believe him, I don't remember any such claim about drugs such as cocaine.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Isn't the hush money trial based on New York state law? Federal immunity does not apply.

    The exact boundaries of presidential immunity are somewhat vague, which is to be expected given that it's mentioned nowhere in the Constitution and seems largely to be the product of executive branch ass covering and judicial invention.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    From the Nixon era the issue was not immunity but executive privilege. Nixon tried to use it to prevent disclosure of documents (tapes) and lost 8-0 in the Supreme Court. Immunity goes a big step further.

    I suspect this Supreme Court (and probably no other in recent history) will find some wriggle room for Trump. The conservative majority seem to me to find ways of bringing in conservative decisions favouring Trump, even in contradiction to previous publicly held positions.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Fani Willis can stay on the Georgia RICO case but only if Wade comes off the case. On balance I think that’s fair. The actual case is some way away so I doubt whether this distraction will have much effect on that.

    And it looks as though the Stormy Daniels consequence case will not start until April at the earliest. Trump may get convicted in that case before the November election, but it’s now unlikely that there will be a completion of either of the other cases before then.

    Delay, delay, delay is already partially successful.

  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Sounds like Cannon is finally getting a backbone. Trump wants her to throw out the Mar-a-Lago case on constitutional grounds. She is refusing to do that. She just might be ready for trial before the November election too. The date is tentatively set for 20 May. Trump wants to wait until after the election. The prosecution has said they are willing to delay until sometime in the summer. This might keep him busy through the latter part of the campaign season.
  • Trump's lawyers say he is unable to post bond. New York Attorney General Letitia James, a Democrat, has said that she will seek to seize some of Trump’s assets if he’s unable to pay the judgment.
  • Trump's lawyers say he is unable to post bond. New York Attorney General Letitia James, a Democrat, has said that she will seek to seize some of Trump’s assets if he’s unable to pay the judgment.

    It's irrelevant that she's a Democratic. This is not news. This is how it's supposed to work. Judgement is in place: either pay up or have assets seized. Trump cannot cope with a fair justice system that does not give him special treatment.

    AFZ
  • I agree that it does not matter that she is a Democratic, but of course, Trump is saying it does. He has had it his way for so long with the justice system I am sure all this is coming as a great shock to him.
  • Trump's lawyers say he is unable to post bond. New York Attorney General Letitia James, a Democrat, has said that she will seek to seize some of Trump’s assets if he’s unable to pay the judgment.

    They admitted it???!!!! The things that happen when I’m away from the news for a bit.
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    Perhaps Trump's son-in-law will advance him a loan.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Apparently, Trump had approached 30 bond companies. None of them were willing to take the risk.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    He’ll drag it out. His lawyers are good at that. Meanwhile, his bloodbath language increases the polarisation. I think he’s setting the ground for another stolen election campaign if he loses.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    From this side of the Pond it looks like the justice system is finally coming down in him. It will be very very embarrassing for him if they do take his assets. That will be worse for him than going to prison
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Apparently, Trump had approached 30 bond companies. None of them were willing to take the risk.

    He may have approached that many, but it's my understanding there are only a few who will float bonds in excess of US$100 million. At over half a billion dollars the bond Trump would need to post for this case would seem to be beyond most bond organization's capabilities, especially given Trump's history regarding honoring his debts.

    On the other hand that amount is chump change for a lot of foreign governments. (I think that's three days worth of transactions by Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund.) This is the kind of thing that makes Trump an unacceptable security risk.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Crœsos wrote: »
    Gramps49 wrote: »
    Apparently, Trump had approached 30 bond companies. None of them were willing to take the risk.

    He may have approached that many, but it's my understanding there are only a few who will float bonds in excess of US$100 million. At over half a billion dollars the bond Trump would need to post for this case would seem to be beyond most bond organization's capabilities, especially given Trump's history regarding honoring his debts.

    On the other hand that amount is chump change for a lot of foreign governments. (I think that's three days worth of transactions by Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund.) This is the kind of thing that makes Trump an unacceptable security risk.

    Speaking about security risk. Trump wants to bring Paul Manafort back into the campaign. Remember him? He is the guy that was found guilty of colluding with the Russian government. But someone pardoned him. Wonder who was that person? Clue here
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    edited March 2024
    I remember Paul Manafort 35207-016. There are some interesting details from the Washington Post's account of this development:
    Trump has told advisers that he feels loyal to Manafort because he served prison time, and Manafort has continued to stay loyal and praise Trump in public and private appearances. The former president still often complains about the Mueller investigation, people close to Trump say, and contends the prosecution of Manafort was unfair.

    Or to translate it back into the original mobspeak, Paulie the Ostrich is a made man.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    HarryCH wrote: »
    Perhaps Trump's son-in-law will advance him a loan.
    Allegedly, Justice Kavanaugh knows about getting loans paid off by other people. Tr*mp should ask him.
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    He’ll drag it out. His lawyers are good at that. Meanwhile, his bloodbath language increases the polarisation. I think he’s setting the ground for another stolen election campaign if he loses.
    Arguably, he is positioning himself to become POTUS again one way or another.
    Hugal wrote: »
    From this side of the Pond it looks like the justice system is finally coming down in him. It will be very very embarrassing for him if they do take his assets. That will be worse for him than going to prison
    Being seen/understood as wealthy may be more important to him than actually being so. Arguments have long been made that he's far less wealthy than claimed.
    Crœsos wrote: »
    On the other hand that amount is chump change for a lot of foreign governments. (I think that's three days worth of transactions by Saudi Arabia's sovereign wealth fund.) This is the kind of thing that makes Trump an unacceptable security risk.
    Just after Tr*mp left office, his son-in-law started a private equity firm with the help of a $2B investment from the Saudis. There's clearly a precedent.



  • MamacitaMamacita Shipmate
    I strongly suspect that T****p will get the funds from some foreign entity, be it Russian oligarchs (possibly via Manafort), or maybe from the Saudis. All of which will make him even more compromised than he already is.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Once, Trump told his people not to drink Bud Light. Then the lobbyist for Budweiser had a $15,000 a plate dinner for Don. He is now encouraging his people to drink Bud Light.

    Once, Trump wanted to ban Tik Tok, then one of the major investors in TT visited him in Mar-A-Lago. Now he wants to leave TT alone.

    Seems like Saudi Arabia has the most to gain in supporting Trump. I wonder what will be the ask?
  • The various American intelligence agencies would have to be shockingly asleep-at-the-wheel not to be nosing all around his business right now, looking to see who offers to fund him.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    Regarding Kushner $2b Saudi Fund: about $1b is tied up in three hotels throughout the world. He just signed a deal to build another property in Belgrade. Ergo, his money is already tied up. Then there are stories Jared is also looking at beachfront properties in Gaza.
  • HarryCHHarryCH Shipmate
    LC: What makes you think they are not doing so?
  • I don't. My syntax probably confused you. I think he's got a whole hive of busy bees buzzing around him looking for precisely the kind of influence buying we've been talking about--all the more so because of the classified documents scandal. I'd say he must know that too, except that human beings are infinitely able to delude themselves.
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    It looks like Fani Willis has decided to push for a summer trial date for Donald Trump P01135809. We'll see what happens.

    Let's note that threats of violence have already allegedly delayed Trump P01135809's Georgia RICO trial.
    Kyle Griffin
    Judge Scott McAfee had written his order on Willis and Wade early last week, according to NBC News, but because he had been receiving threats, he waited until today to make it public in order to allow for proper security to be in place for him and his family. @MSNBC

    This should not stand.
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    Let's see how much the Devil looks after his own personal emissary to the human race.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Hard to believe that valuation. I suppose it's based on actual use but I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in the data emerging from that lie machine.
  • alienfromzogalienfromzog Shipmate
    edited March 2024
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Hard to believe that valuation. I suppose it's based on actual use but I'm not sure how much faith I'd put in the data emerging from that lie machine.

    It's a ridiculous valuation on a business with minimal tangible assets and an operating loss of millions.

    If the deal goes through, the investors will lose big and Trump (presumably given his current cash flow issues) will cash in.

    I suspect the FBI counter intelligence unit / the CIA are watching very closely. If I recall correctly, the money is not from US investors.

    AFZ

    [Edited for circumspection]
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    Aye, it'll be ultimately from Russia, and Texas, which is a law unto itself.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    edited March 2024
    Trump is wide open to being purchased, isn't he? I'm sure some global "big players" who wish the USA ill would be only too pleased to have him in their back pockets. Then work like mad to get him in the White House.

    I think that's the real 2024 story. Barak Obama observed recently, in answer to the question "will US democracy survive?" . "Only if we fight for it".

    Which begs the real question. Who's "we"? A sizeable proportion of the USA population either don't know that democracy is at risk. Or don't care. That's a worry.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Any money from the floatation should pay his bonds. However I suspect the money may go under his bed.
  • DoublethinkDoublethink Admin, 8th Day Host
    edited March 2024
    A trial date has been set for the Stormy Daniel’s case. Do we think it will actually happen ?
  • Yes.
  • The_RivThe_Riv Shipmate
    edited March 2024
    Tr*mp's bond in the other case has been reduced to $145M.
  • I think we just need to get the ball rolling, and there’s an understandable but, um, pusillanimous reluctance to go first.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Trump has been well versed in legal delay for many many years. I’m not sure if there are any outstanding loose ends for further delay in the the “Stormy Daniels case” but if there are you can be sure they will be used to attempt further delay.

    I haven’t seen the Appeals Court reasoning on the fraud case. It looks like a 10 day reprieve and a more manageable bond to find. I don’t know why they went that way and can’t find a link. Can anyone else?
  • CrœsosCrœsos Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I haven’t seen the Appeals Court reasoning on the fraud case. It looks like a 10 day reprieve and a more manageable bond to find. I don’t know why they went that way and can’t find a link. Can anyone else?

    Here [PDF] is the order from the appellate court. It is fairly brief by the standards of legal documents. The most notable thing about it is that the court does not feel the need to explain why the law does not apply to Donald Trump.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    I haven’t seen the Appeals Court reasoning on the fraud case. It looks like a 10 day reprieve and a more manageable bond to find. I don’t know why they went that way and can’t find a link. Can anyone else?

    Here [PDF] is the order from the appellate court. It is fairly brief by the standards of legal documents. The most notable thing about it is that the court does not feel the need to explain why the law does not apply to Donald Trump.

    That, in and of itself, is noteworthy, in my view. Good judges make their reasoning clear.

    YMMV, of course.

    AFZ
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