Talking about features and 'inaccuracies' in religious art and iconography, I really like those modern Orthodox icons that depict contemporary fittings and fixtures in a traditional style.
There's a terrific example in one depicting scenes from the life of St Hermann of Alaska.
His body was removed ('translated') from Spruce Island to the cathedral in Anchorage by helicopter. So there's a panel depicting a Noah's Ark style helicopter made of wood.
Excellent!
There are other icons that show planes, trains and automobiles in a stylised but more 'realistic' way, but I rather like the wooden helicopter.
I remember reading in Manchester’s biography of Churchill that his clothing choices were considered quite old fashioned by the 1930s but that he didn’t change them. Sometimes real life is just strange!
I remember an OU programme which featured an interviewer dressed in the (then) height of fashion - wide lapels, kipper tie, psychedelic shirt - talking to an academic in any-time-this-last-thirty-years shirt, tie, jacket etc. You can guess which one looks the more anachronistic.
The lovely Arthur Marwick? Hugal has an OU teddy bear named Marwick in his honour.
I remember attending a two man show about Neville Chamberlain with a theatre costumer. She was continually distracted by the fact that the actor playing Chamberlain's wing collar and neck tie would have been tremendously out of fashion by 1939. When she mentioned this after the show I was able to pull up the famous photo of Chamberlain brandishing the Munich Agreement in 1938 on my smartphone to show her that, out of fashion or not, that was the way the man actually dressed.
My 1869 Victorian costume is purposely a decade out of date as I am playing an evangelical surgeon’s wife not a wealthy person. Only the ladies at The House are fashionable.
Plus, of course, people tend (or maybe tended, given that fashion is so all-pervasive now) seem to reach a point where they stop worrying about fashion and stick with what they are comfortable with. I've been wearing jeans and rugby tops for about 35 years now...
Authenticity is one thing, for sure. But I'm also talking about simple execution. The more obvious aspects of amateur performance. The volunteer choir vs. the paid, auditioned "ringers." The community theater vs. the professional company. Programming decisions, an anti-favorite this time of year is tacking the "Hallelujah Chorus" onto the end of performances of the first portion of Messiah, sometimes even supplanting "His yoke is easy," which is what Handel actually wrote as the end of Part I. ("Hallelujah" is the end of Part II for Christ's sake.) Also akin to this musical sacrilege are conductors actually turning around to indicate to the audience that they stand. Ugh. Fundamental questions of personnel (two string players per part instead of one or three or more; seventeen sopranos vs. five altos; having a pianist play a harp part, etc. Programming decisions: Messiah Part I followed by a choral-orchestral rendition of "Last Christmas." (I haven't witnessed this specifically, but you get the idea) Production decisions: venue selection, staging, lighting, amplification, obtrusive recording, etc. I would notice and be terminally distracted by many, many more things ahead of any consuming faux pas.
But it seems that so many people aren't bothered by any of this in the least. They're completely entertained. It escapes me.
@The_Riv , I think you would have appreciated last night’s performance of Messiah in which I sang. All in the correct order. Complete. Practically perfect, though more singers and instrumentalists than you would have preferred.
Btw the audience stood without any prompting.
I attended a longstanding, local college-led outdoor Carol and Christmas Song concert extravaganza on Friday night. Choreographed LED illumination throughout — student poetry reading — a recitation of the Christmas Gospel from Luke — dancers in lighted “Lion King-esque” angel costumes — audience participation — “O Holy Night(!) — free hot cocoa!
@The_Riv , I think you would have appreciated last night’s performance of Messiah in which I sang. All in the correct order. Complete. Practically perfect, though more singers and instrumentalists than you would have preferred. Btw the audience stood without any prompting.
Doesn't the audience standing during certain parts of the performance go against the "rule" that only the original staging as indicated by the composer is correct and anything else is an abomination, or at the very least "a real drag"?
@The_Riv , I think you would have appreciated last night’s performance of Messiah in which I sang. All in the correct order. Complete. Practically perfect, though more singers and instrumentalists than you would have preferred. Btw the audience stood without any prompting.
Doesn't the audience standing during certain parts of the performance go against the "rule" that only the original staging as indicated by the composer is correct and anything else is an abomination, or at the very least "a real drag"?
Oratorios are concert pieces, which implies no staging per se. And in any event, what the audience does or does not do is generally not part of the staging.
That said, I find the tradition of standing for the Hallelujah chorus pointless and silly.
That said, I find the tradition of standing for the Hallelujah chorus pointless and silly.
Particularly outside of Great Britain, where allegedly the MESSIAH audience first stood for the entrance (re-entrance) of the king that coincided with the Hallelujah Chorus.
I heard it was because he stood up because he thought it was the end and everyone else followed suit, but as a musician @The_Riv you probably know the story better than I do.
While waiting to see a doctor this morning I heard a radio commercial for a large, local Christmas production. The speaker said something very close to "come and listen to the timeless story from the Gospel of Luke, and experience the birth of Jesus from the unique perspective of the angels." I immediately turned toward Mrs. The_Riv, who cocked her head toward me, and looking over the top of her reading glasses said a preemptive, "Don't." LOL. I sat back, waited about 30 seconds, and then leaned toward her as she rolled her eyes, and said softly, "But the Gospel of Luke doesn't' say anything about angels being present at the birth of Jesus -- only that there were a bunch of them in the sky outside of town singing "Gloria in excelsis Deo" above the shepherds, but that they finished singing and returned to heaven!" You can tell the story from Luke, or you can tell a story of what angels may have witnessed @ the cattle shed, but you can't say the latter was part of the former!" Without even looking at me she replied, "Leave people alone, Honey."
I think angels are kind around all the time, just in general, though as pure spirit (as I understand them to be) I’m not sure how they even relate to space and time as we experience them.
The buttocks are the presenting part in 85% of vaginal breech presentations. Footling breech ( one or both feet presenting) is uncommon, potentially complicated and these days delivered via the sunroof.
I thought for a moment that Mrs The_Riv made that comment because she knows you so well and has heard it all from you before…( sorry).
As a performer, I rather like it when people stand spontaneously for the Hallelujah Chorus and I am faintly amused at the stragglers who belatedly follow the example of others. This year I found it particularly moving as it was such a great performance and I felt they were really in the spirit of the thing. But, no, we don’t have a second interval. I’d never catch my bus if we did.
On the other hand, for many people, standing during the Hallelujah Chorus might be the closest they've ever gotten to outward and visible responses to something spiritual, so maybe it's a good thing after all.
Complete, though a shorter version of the Pastoral Symphony and possibly shorter versions of some of the arias, but no choral omissions. A sparkling, crisp pace.
Last year my local choral society did Messiah. I went to all the rehearsals but could not bear to sing in the concert - such a slow pace, lacking rhythmic vitality, more like sliced bread than a beautifully presented meal.
Last year my local choral society did Messiah. I went to all the rehearsals but could not bear to sing in the concert - such a slow pace, lacking rhythmic vitality, more like sliced bread than a beautifully presented meal.
I don't blame you, that turgidness sounds awful - and a blast from the past.
The Messiah is an annual Christmas treat I can attend whenever possible since my aunt would take me every year, starting at age 10 or 11. Standing is a spiritual response for me. I am responding to what the words represent, and it has nothing to do with how it did or did not start with a king.
I thought for a moment that Mrs The_Riv made that comment because she knows you so well and has heard it all from you before…( sorry).
As a performer, I rather like it when people stand spontaneously for the Hallelujah Chorus and I am faintly amused at the stragglers who belatedly follow the example of others. This year I found it particularly moving as it was such a great performance and I felt they were really in the spirit of the thing. But, no, we don’t have a second interval. I’d never catch my bus if we did.
So, this is a constant struggle, but especially difficult during the Hollidays: I can't turn off my inner critic. It sometimes drives Mrs. The_Riv crazy, because she has a wonderful ability to suspend her disbelief and appreciate the whole in spite of any errant parts, and always champions the people performing/presenting over what I consider to be the integrity or potential of a piece, whatever it may be. It's particularly trying re: music, because as a conductor I always have strong opinions re: all of the elements of music, as well as a myriad of extra-musical aspects of performances. So, the struggle is real (but just for me), LOL. It's not a Statler & Waldorf thing -- I'm not making fun of anyone -- but my senses seem to be hard wired to assess instead of access, and sometimes it's a real drag. Anybody else?
All . The . Stinking . Time!!!
Want to enjoy Disney World/Land/Planet/Universe? Don't bring me. I feel like I'm stuck in something Kafka wrote. I can't turn off the analyzer, seeking every possible reason not to get sucked into the fiction.
Disneyland is a whole other thing, though. For what it is, Disneyland is excellent. But it's an amusement park, and an extremely expensive one at that. It's not a matter of whether the thing is well done; it's that no matter how well done, I don't like the thing.
Having been to both, I can say that for what they are, I much prefer DisneyLand to DisneyWorld. I don't really find any disbelief needing to be suspended at those places, though. As @Ruth has said, they're amusement parks. For me it's all about watching and helping children enjoy those characters and that environment, overstimulating as it can be.
Mrs RR informs me that 'Hallelujah - the Gospel Messiah', conducted by Marin Alsop and introduced by one Gareth Malone is to be shown on BBC 2 on 22/12/2024.
It has, Jazz, Gospel, R&B, pop . . . Dear God. Is nothing sacred?
Disney World was one of Cubby’s and my favorite places, full stop. The immersive environment more than the rides. Others’ mileage may vary. I hope to be able to afford and navigate it again when the time comes. (I live about an hour and a half away, though traffic right now according to Siri is 2 hours and 17 minutes due to “very heavy traffic.”) We literally described it as like a (very imperfect) foretaste or shadow of Heaven—people being kind, music and beauty everywhere. Our favorite parks were Epcot and Animal Kingdom. Again, other people’s mileage may vary.
We are those kind of people too @ChastMastr, a favourite memento for us is Cheery Son having photos with the Scooby Doo gang at a theme park here in Oz. A lovely surprise for him and much enjoyed.
@The_Riv I've revisited your original post several times, because it does remind me of my husband and daughter. If the four of us have an outing to cinema or even watch something at home, there will be a major dissecting discussion between husband and daughter, sometimes agreeing or debating vehemently. Whereas son and I look at one another say I enjoyed that, or disappointing not my thing, but we don't tend to examine it minutely - we wouldn't be able to get a word in edgeways, regardless.
Comments
There's a terrific example in one depicting scenes from the life of St Hermann of Alaska.
His body was removed ('translated') from Spruce Island to the cathedral in Anchorage by helicopter. So there's a panel depicting a Noah's Ark style helicopter made of wood.
Excellent!
There are other icons that show planes, trains and automobiles in a stylised but more 'realistic' way, but I rather like the wooden helicopter.
There's a good icon with a walrus in it too.
Pictorial literalists, eat your heats out ... 😉
The lovely Arthur Marwick? Hugal has an OU teddy bear named Marwick in his honour.
My 1869 Victorian costume is purposely a decade out of date as I am playing an evangelical surgeon’s wife not a wealthy person. Only the ladies at The House are fashionable.
But it seems that so many people aren't bothered by any of this in the least. They're completely entertained. It escapes me.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy7kd7g2lxyo
Btw the audience stood without any prompting.
I attended a longstanding, local college-led outdoor Carol and Christmas Song concert extravaganza on Friday night. Choreographed LED illumination throughout — student poetry reading — a recitation of the Christmas Gospel from Luke — dancers in lighted “Lion King-esque” angel costumes — audience participation — “O Holy Night(!) — free hot cocoa!
It’s quite a spectacle.
Doesn't the audience standing during certain parts of the performance go against the "rule" that only the original staging as indicated by the composer is correct and anything else is an abomination, or at the very least "a real drag"?
That said, I find the tradition of standing for the Hallelujah chorus pointless and silly.
Particularly outside of Great Britain, where allegedly the MESSIAH audience first stood for the entrance (re-entrance) of the king that coincided with the Hallelujah Chorus.
Of course, that reasoning is lost today.
Never mind there’s no evidence he was actually in attendance.
But now people treat it like they’re standing for the Gospel reading.
My eyes roll every time.
The buttocks are the presenting part in 85% of vaginal breech presentations. Footling breech ( one or both feet presenting) is uncommon, potentially complicated and these days delivered via the sunroof.
Back to Messiah,etc
As a performer, I rather like it when people stand spontaneously for the Hallelujah Chorus and I am faintly amused at the stragglers who belatedly follow the example of others. This year I found it particularly moving as it was such a great performance and I felt they were really in the spirit of the thing. But, no, we don’t have a second interval. I’d never catch my bus if we did.
Last year my local choral society did Messiah. I went to all the rehearsals but could not bear to sing in the concert - such a slow pace, lacking rhythmic vitality, more like sliced bread than a beautifully presented meal.
That is exactly why Mrs. The_Riv said that!
All . The . Stinking . Time!!!
Want to enjoy Disney World/Land/Planet/Universe? Don't bring me. I feel like I'm stuck in something Kafka wrote. I can't turn off the analyzer, seeking every possible reason not to get sucked into the fiction.
It has, Jazz, Gospel, R&B, pop . . . Dear God. Is nothing sacred?
@The_Riv I've revisited your original post several times, because it does remind me of my husband and daughter. If the four of us have an outing to cinema or even watch something at home, there will be a major dissecting discussion between husband and daughter, sometimes agreeing or debating vehemently. Whereas son and I look at one another say I enjoyed that, or disappointing not my thing, but we don't tend to examine it minutely - we wouldn't be able to get a word in edgeways, regardless.