Elon ******* Musk

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  • Eirenist wrote: »
    He is now calling on the US Government to 'liberate' the UK from its 'tyrannical government'.
    Is he advocating detachments of US Marines storming the Palace of Westminster, Whitehall and Downing Street to enforce a regime change in the UK?

    I understand that Mr. Musk is intending to found a school. Perhaps he should attend as a pupil, which might give him the opportunity to learn what "tyranny" means.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    My cynicism spots an underlying agenda. The dissing of European allies in advance of a further attack on, followed by a withdrawal from, NATO. Musk sees the growing popularity of isolationism in the USA and is exploiting it. It’s too simple to see him as Trump’s attack dog. I think he now has power ambitions of his own.
  • Barnabas62 wrote: »
    My cynicism spots an underlying agenda. The dissing of European allies in advance of a further attack on, followed by a withdrawal from, NATO. Musk sees the growing popularity of isolationism in the USA and is exploiting it. It’s too simple to see him as Trump’s attack dog. I think he now has power ambitions of his own.

    This. Despite what others have said in disagreement, I think he does indeed have an agenda of his own.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited January 6
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    My cynicism spots an underlying agenda. The dissing of European allies in advance of a further attack on, followed by a withdrawal from, NATO. Musk sees the growing popularity of isolationism in the USA and is exploiting it. It’s too simple to see him as Trump’s attack dog. I think he now has power ambitions of his own.

    This. Despite what others have said in disagreement, I think he does indeed have an agenda of his own.

    Seriously, even if Trump and Musk are just trolling NATO for the lulz, the fact that American voters are willing to tolerate an administration that plays those kinda games should indicate the USA can't be considered a reliable ally anymore.

    Macron was muttering a few years back about Europe disengaging from the USA and taking the lead in its own defense. I think he was onto something there.
  • So he may have been, yet Trump was sitting next to him at the re-opening of Notre-Dame Cathedral...WTF was that all about?

    No doubt Macron was hedging his bets, given what happens in the US later this month, but I'm sure many Europeans do indeed no longer regard America as a reliable ally.

    Maybe Musk merely aspires to be Lord of America, rather than Lord of the World?
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    So he may have been, yet Trump was sitting next to him at the re-opening of Notre-Dame Cathedral...WTF was that all about?

    Well, you seem to have answered your own question...

    No doubt Macron was hedging his bets, given what happens in the US later this month...[/quote]

    Though I wouldn't say "hedging his bets", because, when that Notre Dame shindig took place, Trump was already the president-elect. Macron presumably just accepts that Trump is going to be POTUS, and is taking it from there.
  • Yes, probably.

    It looked a bit awkward, though. Trump was to Macron's right, and Mme Macron sat next to Trump (looking decidedly uncomfortable, but who wouldn't?). On her right, however, was Jill Biden - a much more congenial neighbour!
  • Telford wrote: »
    stetson wrote: »
    So, Musk is now calling for King Charles to dissolve parliament over Starmer's alleged failure to deal with "grooming gangs". Basically, demanding a coup d'etat.


    Do you agree with Labour who have declined to have a national enquiry on the Grooming gangs issue?

    There was an enquiry that made recommendations in 2022. Those recommendations were not implemented by the Tory government. (They were, no doubt, too busy adding 0.01% to our GDP with some disastrous trade 'deal'.)

    If it helps anyone, especially the victims, I'd be happy to see a further enquiry, but maybe its terms of reference should include white paedophiles too? Especially those in high places.

  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    edited January 6
    ... Seriously, though, it worries me that so much attention is paid to Musk in the Meeja. He's dangerous enough, without giving him so much free publicity. ...
    I 100% agree. Mr Musk is a person whose opinions and actions deserve neither attention nor respect. Yet the BBC smarms all over him as though he is important and no UK politician seems to have the courage just to tell him publicly to shut up and stop shouting his mouth off about stuff that he clearly knows nothing about and is none of his business.

  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Oh, I think we'd better give him attention, respect or no. The evidence is growing that he is hostile to some powerful European governments. Putin must be cheering. Zelensky must be quaking in his boots. I wonder if Trump is playing the 'mad' card?
  • EnochEnoch Shipmate
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Oh, I think we'd better give him attention, respect or no. The evidence is growing that he is hostile to some powerful European governments. Putin must be cheering. Zelensky must be quaking in his boots. I wonder if Trump is playing the 'mad' card?
    Yebbut. The Meeja and UK politicians are treating him as someone who merits respect, someone whom when he speaks, should be given attention and answered, not as someone who merely merits contempt.

  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    Unfortunately for a lot of our leaders and media "worth" is defined solely in terms of dollars, and that seems to be the generally accepted position. Enter "How much is Elon Musk worth?" in any search engine and you'll get something like £350 trillion.

    No one answers that question as "less than the dog shit I had to scrape off my shoe", no one seems to consider the value of character and actions in determining whether someone is worthy of respect.
  • chrisstileschrisstiles Hell Host
    edited January 7

    Enoch wrote: »
    Barnabas62 wrote: »
    Oh, I think we'd better give him attention, respect or no. The evidence is growing that he is hostile to some powerful European governments. Putin must be cheering. Zelensky must be quaking in his boots. I wonder if Trump is playing the 'mad' card?
    Yebbut. The Meeja and UK politicians are treating him as someone who merits respect, someone whom when he speaks, should be given attention and answered, not as someone who merely merits contempt.

    Because being 'business friendly' is taken to mean genuflecting to the richest representatives of business.

    And apart from that there is the natsec angle via SpaceX, Starlink and (via his very creepy friend Peter Thiel) Palantir.
  • Unfortunately for a lot of our leaders and media "worth" is defined solely in terms of dollars, and that seems to be the generally accepted position. Enter "How much is Elon Musk worth?" in any search engine and you'll get something like £350 trillion.

    No one answers that question as "less than the dog shit I had to scrape off my shoe", no one seems to consider the value of character and actions in determining whether someone is worthy of respect.

    Bravo 👏
  • I think there is an element of 'Don't listen to him, listen to us,' about the BBC's coverage of Musk's ravings.

    They are trying to highlight the difference between 'X' style opinion sound-bite 'Tweets', or whatever we call them now, and proper journalism from what he dismisses as 'legacy media.'

    My concern is that could be counter-productive as it feeds the troll and gives him even more of a platform for his loopy-doopy rants.

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    I think there is an element of 'Don't listen to him, listen to us,' about the BBC's coverage of Musk's ravings.

    They are trying to highlight the difference between 'X' style opinion sound-bite 'Tweets', or whatever we call them now, and proper journalism from what he dismisses as 'legacy media.'

    My concern is that could be counter-productive as it feeds the troll and gives him even more of a platform for his loopy-doopy rants.

    A lotta the anti-social media opinionating coming out of legacy media has the aura of a moral panic.

    I don't like what Musk is DOING with social media, but I didn't like what Hearst or Murdoch did with legacy media, either. A hegemony of professional, top-down journalism is no guarantee against collapse into bigotry and xenophobia.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    Mr Musk is entitled to his opinion . There is snowball’s chance in Hell what he wants to happen will happen. It will blow over.
  • I think there is an element of 'Don't listen to him, listen to us,' about the BBC's coverage of Musk's ravings.

    They are trying to highlight the difference between 'X' style opinion sound-bite 'Tweets', or whatever we call them now, and proper journalism from what he dismisses as 'legacy media.'

    Their 60 person 'BBC Verify' unit is normally very keen on 'online disinformation', but there's a noted slant to the targets they take on.

    I suppose it doesn't help if at the other end they are platforming Farage, with Kuenssberg giving him ample room to bloviate.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    I wish Elon Musk would just get on with buggering off to Mars and leave the rest of us to sort the Earth out.

    It's not going to be pretty on the spaceship, mind. The psychological qualities one is usually looking for in astronauts are things like getting along well with others, working as part of a team, and having excellent conflict resolution skills. Somehow I don't think this describes Elon and the other billionaires. It's going to be like the Lord of the Flies in there. Good riddance to 'em, I say. :naughty:
  • Is there a scheduled lift-off date? I do hope there is...
    :naughty:
  • Alan Cresswell Alan Cresswell Admin, 8th Day Host
    not so concerned about a scheduled return
  • You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
  • stetson wrote: »
    I don't like what Musk is DOING with social media, but I didn't like what Hearst or Murdoch did with legacy media, either. A hegemony of professional, top-down journalism is no guarantee against collapse into bigotry and xenophobia.

    And from the latest announcements it looks like Meta is following suit (and joining the bandwagon of tech bros going over to Trump).
  • Satan must be forking out a great deal of money, buying all these souls...
  • RuthRuth Shipmate
    Nah, a lot of them come cheap.
  • True enough. Still, he'll have some fun with them, some time in the not-too-distant future...
  • SighthoundSighthound Shipmate
    edited January 7
    Mr Musk has reminded me that I'm not quite the pacifist I thought I was. I now realise I'd be quite happy to shoot invaders or collaborators.

    I'm not sure how I square this with my conscience, but I never was quite willing to sign up to the Peace Pledge Union. Attractive though it is to me in theory.
  • HuiaHuia Shipmate
    @Sighthound I'm somewhat relieved to read that. I caught myself thinking "Why doesn't he just drop dead?" the other day - which shocked me as I can't remember thinking that about anyone for many years. I still feel uncomfortable about it.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    edited January 7
    A gentle reminder that we do not support talk about serious violence to living persons even in jest.

    Dafyd Hell Host
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    True enough. Still, he'll have some fun with them, some time in the not-too-distant future...

    Shouldn't wishing eternal torment (in love of course) on anyone be covered by the above?
  • Lighten up, Martin. Guys like Trump and Musk carry their own personal Hell around with them. As Satan said to Dr Faustus, 'Why, this is Hell, nor are we out of it'. We would prefer they keep it to themselves.
  • la vie en rougela vie en rouge Purgatory Host, Circus Host
    My husband has just floated the idea that Elon Musk is the antichrist. I'm only half sure he's joking.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    I still think Ayn Rand was the best candidate. (I think I've shared the story of how I tried to make a numerological scheme so that her name added to 666, and succeeded on the first attempt.) Trump would be a decent choice.
    I don't think Musk has the appeal to the religious that they do.

    (I am joking.)
  • Martin54Martin54 Suspended
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    Lighten up, Martin. Guys like Trump and Musk carry their own personal Hell around with them. As Satan said to Dr Faustus, 'Why, this is Hell, nor are we out of it'. We would prefer they keep it to themselves.

    They seem happy as pigs in shit. Gorging ticks. I wonder what form their de/re-construction would take in the transcendent?
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    Lighten up, Martin. Guys like Trump and Musk carry their own personal Hell around with them. As Satan said to Dr Faustus, 'Why, this is Hell, nor are we out of it'. We would prefer they keep it to themselves.

    They seem happy as pigs in shit. Gorging ticks. I wonder what form their de/re-construction would take in the transcendent?

    Indeed they do.

    BTW, I wasn't wishing evil on them - as @RockyRoger says, they carry Hell around with them. They may find things tough when Death eventually catches up with them, if what the churches teach is true.
  • Martin54 wrote: »
    RockyRoger wrote: »
    Lighten up, Martin. Guys like Trump and Musk carry their own personal Hell around with them. As Satan said to Dr Faustus, 'Why, this is Hell, nor are we out of it'. We would prefer they keep it to themselves.

    They seem happy as pigs in shit. Gorging ticks. I wonder what form their de/re-construction would take in the transcendent?

    I still pray that one or both will ultimately be redeemed. But that’s between them and God. We can fight against the evil they do and still wish for their repentance and redemption.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    Dafyd wrote: »
    I still think Ayn Rand was the best candidate. (I think I've shared the story of how I tried to make a numerological scheme so that her name added to 666, and succeeded on the first attempt.) Trump would be a decent choice.
    I don't think Musk has the appeal to the religious that they do.

    (I am joking.)

    The street-preacher John Todd, one of the big sources for the Satanic Panic, claimed that Atlas Shrugged was the blueprint for an Illuminati takeover.

    I'm guessing that Todd understood little about Rand's economic/political views, beyond that she was anti-Christian, and that Atlas Shrugged involves a secretive elite positioning themselves for global control, and possibly that it had inspired Anton LaVey.

    Todd's anti-Rand paranoia did not seem to catch on with Panickers generally, I suspect at least partly because they tended to ignore more complicated literary works.
  • stetson wrote: »
    Dafyd wrote: »
    I still think Ayn Rand was the best candidate. (I think I've shared the story of how I tried to make a numerological scheme so that her name added to 666, and succeeded on the first attempt.) Trump would be a decent choice.
    I don't think Musk has the appeal to the religious that they do.

    (I am joking.)

    The street-preacher John Todd, one of the big sources for the Satanic Panic, claimed that Atlas Shrugged was the blueprint for an Illuminati takeover.

    I'm guessing that Todd understood little about Rand's economic/political views, beyond that she was anti-Christian, and that Atlas Shrugged involves a secretive elite positioning themselves for global control, and possibly that it had inspired Anton LaVey.

    Todd's anti-Rand paranoia did not seem to catch on with Panickers generally, I suspect at least partly because they tended to ignore more complicated literary works.

    Oh, it did inspire Anton LaVey—the whole “be a selfish twit” thing. (For anyone who doesn’t know: His particular Satanism is essentially Ayn Rand dressed up as Alice Cooper. LaVey’s Church of Satan is the nasty “look out for number one, screw everyone else” one—The Satanic Temple, the one which does protests for the separation of church and state, actually does good work. The two groups hate each other, not surprisingly. Neither of them actually worship Satan—they both see Satan as symbolic.)

    Rand herself was terrible, with a philosophy I consider genuinely immoral, but I think she’d be repelled by Trump, Musk, and the whole MAGA crowd. She wasn’t even a fan of Reagan.

    John Oliver on Rand:

    https://youtu.be/_8m8cQI4DgM?si=FXW6oy6Ry4ZB_Y8Y
  • ChastMastrChastMastr Shipmate
    edited January 9
    (Because a close friend of mine was hugely into Rand back in high school, I read every damn word of Atlas Shrugged. 😱 ) *twitches slightly at the memory *

    (He got better, thank God.)
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited January 9
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Oh, it did inspire Anton LaVey—the whole “be a selfish twit” thing. (For anyone who doesn’t know: His particular Satanism is essentially Ayn Rand dressed up as Alice Cooper.

    Well, assuming wiki lines things up properly, Vincent Furnier was still in high school when LaVey established the CoS we all know and love. But yeah, Ayn Rand dressed up in a dumbed-down version of Crowley.

    LaVey’s Church of Satan is the nasty “look out for number one, screw everyone else” one—

    But ya gotta admit: plagiarizing moronic pop-philosophy and slapping the words SATANIC BIBLE on a black cover to create a book that has never gone outta print in almost 60 years, is a really good fucking business model. Granted, a pretty botton-feeding one, but your bank balance doesn't know that.

    I think she’d be repelled by Trump, Musk, and the whole MAGA crowd. She wasn’t even a fan of Reagan.

    Ayn Rand was pro-choice and anti-censorship, and as mentioned, hated Christianity. So, no, I definitely wouldn't see her liking Reagan and his alliance with the religious right.

    Musk I could definitely see her liking as a person(the whole promethean archetype is pretty central to her aesthetic), though she wouldn't like him hooking his wagon to Trump's interventionism on behalf of weak and dying industries.

    One of my high-school teachers was an Objectivist, and when I mentioned that the only book in the canon that I'd read cover-to-cover was Anthem(literally the Prometheus story), he opined that to fully appreciate that particular book, you have to be a fan of ballet.
  • Oh, I didn’t mean intentionally copying Alice Cooper himself—just the whole “spooky” vibe.

    (Interestingly, the real Alice Cooper is a committed Christian, and into golf, of all things.)

    I’m not sure Rand would like Musk as he actually is, even before he got into Trump. She’d love the person Musk’s hype has made him out to be (he practically makes himself out to be like the kind of character she has in her novels), but I’m not sure even a few years ago she’d like the person he actually was then, much less now.
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    I am reminded of:
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
  • ChastMastr wrote: »
    Oh, I didn’t mean intentionally copying Alice Cooper himself—just the whole “spooky” vibe.

    (Interestingly, the real Alice Cooper is a committed Christian, and into golf, of all things.)

    And if I recall, a flaming sexist and transphobe.
  • Barnabas62Barnabas62 Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Love that quote! Many thanks.
  • ChastMastr wrote: »
    Oh, it did inspire Anton LaVey—the whole “be a selfish twit” thing. (For anyone who doesn’t know: His particular Satanism is essentially Ayn Rand dressed up as Alice Cooper. LaVey’s Church of Satan is the nasty “look out for number one, screw everyone else” one—The Satanic Temple, the one which does protests for the separation of church and state, actually does good work. The two groups hate each other, not surprisingly. Neither of them actually worship Satan—they both see Satan as symbolic.)

    Giving rise to the old(ish) joke:

    Satanists sacrifice humans to Satan
    No, they do not. Satanists don't even believe in Satan, they're just called that.
    So what do you call someone who believes in Satan?
    A Christian.
  • DafydDafyd Hell Host
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    (Interestingly, the real Alice Cooper is a committed Christian, and into golf, of all things.)
    He was once asked who the worst cheater at golf he knew of was.
    "Well, I played Donald Trump one time."

  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited January 9
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Oh, I didn’t mean intentionally copying Alice Cooper himself—just the whole “spooky” vibe.

    Oh, I know. I'm just a fetishist for keeping comparisons chronologically plausible.

    (I once heard the Gwangju Uprising of 1980 refered to as "Korea's Tiananmen Square, which just grated. Granted, phrasing it as "The Tianenman Square of 1980" would work, but even that sorta thing always sounds a little forced.)

    (Interestingly, the real Alice Cooper is a committed Christian...

    He played King Herod in a production of Jesus Christ Superstar a few years back, and said he had to pray to ask God about the advisability of playing someone involved in the crucifixion. That sounded rather strange, since presumably God likes there to be literary representations of the gospel, though maybe Cooper was worried about the effect of playing Herod on his personal spirituality.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    mousethief wrote: »
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Oh, I didn’t mean intentionally copying Alice Cooper himself—just the whole “spooky” vibe.

    (Interestingly, the real Alice Cooper is a committed Christian, and into golf, of all things.)

    And if I recall, a flaming sexist and transphobe.

    One could make a crack about a man being so obsessed with strict gender roles while self-styling as "Alice", though I guess that persona was always meant to be viewed as freaky, partly due to its violation of heteronormativity.

    One interesting biographical fact about Cooper is that his family were Bickertonites, members of an LDS sect pre-dating the arrival in Utah. Cooper's dad was a preacher in the church.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    stetson wrote: »
    ChastMastr wrote: »
    Oh, I didn’t mean intentionally copying Alice Cooper himself—just the whole “spooky” vibe.

    Oh, I know. I'm just a fetishist for keeping comparisons chronologically plausible.

    (I once heard the Gwangju Uprising of 1980 refered to as "Korea's Tiananmen Square, which just grated. Granted, phrasing it as "The Tianenman Square of 1980" would work, but even that sorta thing always sounds a little forced.)

    (Interestingly, the real Alice Cooper is a committed Christian...

    He played King Herod in a production of Jesus Christ Superstar a few years back, and said he had to pray to ask God about the advisability of playing someone involved in the crucifixion. That sounded rather strange, since presumably God likes there to be literary representations of the gospel, though maybe Cooper was worried about the effect of playing Herod on his personal spirituality.

    Also Jesus Christ Superstar takes some liberties with its source material. It is a great show, I have seen it several times, but it is not afraid to, let’s say reinterpret.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited January 9
    Some of you may have heard of (or even read) this curious old book:

    Lord of the World is a 1907 dystopian science fiction novel by Robert Hugh Benson that centres upon the reign of the Antichrist and the end of the world. It has been called prophetic by Pope Francis and Pope Benedict XVI.


    Musk cannot be the Antichrist, as he is not by any means a universally-beloved character.

    Yet.
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