The Ship as a community—has this changed?
ChastMastr
Shipmate
In the recent thread about whether a thread was going to be reopened, @Doublethink said:
I don’t think I think of the Ship that way. To me it’s been a community rather than just a discussion board, so starting threads on other platforms to see what people think about a certain issue isn’t why I post on the Ship. Starting a thread on Facebook just isn’t the same kind of thing at all, at least to me. I’d want to know what my fellow Shipmates think, many of whom I’ve known, at least to some degree, for literally decades.
But I’ve been away for a while until relatively recently, and a lot of people are just… gone.
Has the Ship changed in terms of being the kind of community it was? Do people have Shipmeets anymore? There are people who post prayer requests and such still, but things seem different. (Where did everyone go?? And why??)
(I don’t know if this belongs in All Saints or here in the Styx, so please move thread as needed. It’s about us as people but also about the Ship itself.)
(ETA fix thread link, DT)
… we are only one of various choices people have for internet discussion, and of course people can pick and choose where they talk about what amongst the various social media venues they frequent.
I don’t think I think of the Ship that way. To me it’s been a community rather than just a discussion board, so starting threads on other platforms to see what people think about a certain issue isn’t why I post on the Ship. Starting a thread on Facebook just isn’t the same kind of thing at all, at least to me. I’d want to know what my fellow Shipmates think, many of whom I’ve known, at least to some degree, for literally decades.
But I’ve been away for a while until relatively recently, and a lot of people are just… gone.
Has the Ship changed in terms of being the kind of community it was? Do people have Shipmeets anymore? There are people who post prayer requests and such still, but things seem different. (Where did everyone go?? And why??)
(I don’t know if this belongs in All Saints or here in the Styx, so please move thread as needed. It’s about us as people but also about the Ship itself.)
(ETA fix thread link, DT)
Comments
In memoriam.
And some have left because they were made to feel unwelcome or got tired of being on the receiving end of what could reasonably be described as bullying, or because they tired of having the same discussions over and over and over—discussions predictable in both what the majority would say and in how minority voices would be treated or even ignored.
In other words, pretty much like most voluntary communities I’ve been part of.
Personally, I find the current Ship more of a community now than I did many years ago. Whether it’s the Ship that has changed, or me, or both I can’t say.
Given all that, it seems unreasonable to expect it to stay still.
🕯
I wouldn't say that has impacted my sense of community - there are people I've never met RL who I definitely feel part of a friendly community with. So I think that experience might vary from person to person and might depend on where someone is geographically?
Trolls and cliques and crusades and munchausens originally drove a desperate need for genuine online connection³ - which mattered more than actual beliefs or inclinations in many cases.
Then the crushing effect of global social media monsters sucked all the energy out of the flux of visitors, and those that remained onboard appeared to choose to do so largely out of preference for more deliberate discussion.
Then a clear divergence between those pushing for progressive efforts of inclusion and equity versus those I'll describe generally as "fuck you, I got mine"² that wistfully wish for things to return to or at least stay at the state of inequity that they are comfortable or familiar with.
I'm guessing that none of us feel like we've changed individually all that much¹, but the way in which we sort ourselves has informed the sense of community here.
¹ As far as we present or interact that is.
² OK boomer
³ This is where I would include a link to a horrifying spider for @Marvin the Martian, in accordance with tradition. But, well, Marv's been clear that it's not that funny, and I suffer way more heebie-jeebies by having to search for images of the awful little fuckers.
⁴ But here I go anyway. Sorry. Super-simplified and RooK-centric. Obviously.
I consider many of those who also post on those boards as friends, even though I may never meet them IRL.
Just off the top of my head, Motherboard and Maleveque and Gill H and Hugal spring to mind. Some names I don't remember but I remember meeting the people. (I'm thinking back to the early 2000s--even before I met Cubby!!)
I've been to a few Meets, but don't think of them as core to the community.
I miss the daft creativity - story threads, the improv Nativity - but like the youth in the heart and the dew in the morning, that's gone now. It's all more -
My friends, we will not go again or ape an ancient rage,
Or stretch the folly of our youth to be the shame of age,
But walk with clearer eyes and ears this path that wandereth,
And see undrugged in evening light the decent inn of death
Motherboard’s last post here seems to have been in 2018, not long after the transition to the new software - to let us know that Janine had died.
Malveque’s only post on the new software seems to have been on a thread about Rossweisse’s service in 2021.
Hugal and Gill H are still around.
We’ve met London-based a d Wales-based Shipmates over the years, some of whom are still here and others who we only encounter in one of the FB groups these days.
I think I hunger for the level of discussion you get from a forum, rather than FB or similar platforms.
The Ship has changed over the years, but it’s still a unique community, I think.
We've also had a couple of virtual meets.
As I watch the boards, I realize that for many others, the Ship is an extension of IRL relationships. My experience is quite different.
Doublethink, Styx Hosting
Sorry: Why does "boomer" erase women and marginalized groups?
(I'm not part of the putative group, by the way!)
The characters have gone, some to Glory and some to who knows where. Actually, I do know where some have gone, I cyber-meet them daily on Facebook. I'm very happy to be back aboard, and I'm encouraging other deserters to hand themselves in, but it would have been even more happy-making to find, for example, Left at the Altar, or Sine Nomine, all the better if they were teasing each other.
Considering how vast is Australia, we used to have lots of Meets, and it would not be unusual for inter-state Shipmates to be at the Meets. But this introduces another point which is at once an illustration of how the Ship is different (in a very good way) from other social media, and also perhaps one reason for the decline in onboard engagement. From those Meets, Real Life(™) friendships have formed and blossomed. So now, knowing our new friends IRL, we use other channels to stay in touch.
ITTTIACW, I think that this is a Christian website, just as welcoming for Non-Christians to have fun aboard and prick our self-righteous and sometimes incoherent bubbles. I'd like to see some Muhammads and Mahatmas as well as Maurices and Mirabels. I used to regard Eastern Orthodox as bearded weirdoes. The Ship taught me that it was just their beards which are weird 😊 The odd zealot aside (such was I all those years ago when I first stepped aboard), we manage to keep that distinctive ethos without descending into "I thank thee, Lord, that I am not as other men" partisanship and hypocrisy.
That somebody will now pile in and say that this is not a Christian website, just reinforces that it's an eclectic website.
So fair winds and a following sea to the Ship, and long may she sail.
We used to hold the “Gambit” meet every January in London that was always very well attended, but gradually numbers dwindled. The last Gambit meet was in 2020 and IIRC only four of us were there, two of which had already stopped posting regularly some considerable time before.
There used to be loads of meets and many of us made long term real life friends through them. I met my wife at a Shipmeet and quite a few Shipmates came to our wedding.
The thing is, times change. 20-25 years ago when I was younger and thinner than I am now, meeting up in a pub regularly and getting pissed with a bunch of mates was a lot more attractive than it is now.
Having said that, it might be worth trying to revive the occasional London meet if anyone is interested.
BlueSky is more of a learning curve but it's got the good people from Twitter, the acerbic wit, the political insights that I used to enjoy there. Facebook is dead. So cluttered with ads, reels, suggestions for groups and people you might know, that it's hard to find any relevant posts and most people seem to have given up.
From my point of view, the Ship lost its sparkle some time ago and never got it back. It feels predictable, and to some extent, restrictive. On Threads, there's the ability to block annoying people and trolls, which is a wonderful function as you can turn them invisible or (if you've started a post) hide their response from everyone else. You can have normal conversation, and take it to private message exchanges via Instagram if wanted. That has the facility for group chats as well.
Given all that, I don't see myself coming back here more than occasionally, it just doesn't suit what I'm looking for currently. I'm very grateful to the Ship for putting up with me for so long, and for the lovely friends I made and people I met up with IRL. Those were good times. I wish you all well.
"OK boomer" footnotes the "fuck you, I got mine" attitude. A subset of predominantly white male boomers did indeed get theirs. The rest of us boomers, not so much. Every time I see "OK boomer" I want to look up the statistics on how many senior citizens are homeless in the US, but that seems unsuitable for All Saints.
I see the ship like any other group that meets together, the membership changes over time, there will be the odd disagreement, some people will navigate those better than others and a core group of people will stay and commit having found a place that is good for them and where they can interact in safety.
I do think the ship faces challenges in terms of the types of different social media available but not everyone likes or wants to participate in those and I am one of those people. But for younger people, I don't really know how their social networking occurs and I don't see social media as providing the type of relationships that people have described here.
I would say anytime someone comes on the Ship changes the Ship. Likewise, anyone leaving the Ship also changes the Ship. It is like stepping in the same stream twice. It cannot be done because it is constantly moving and changing. In the meantime, to me it is useless to bemoan how it is changing. That is being like the back to Egypt crowd. No, the best approach is to make the best of where the ship is currently at, looking forward to the future. We are building on the bast, but it does not stay static.
Hard same.
Yes, it's changed. That change was in hindsight inevitable, for two main reasons.
Firstly, forums/message boards like this are, with the notable exception of Reddit, virtually extinct. It's just not how internet people interact with one another any more, other than within relatively small groups discussing tightly-focused subjects - a band, a local interest society, a sports club. And even most of those are on Facetwittergram these days.
Secondly, we got older. Shipmeets - even long-distance ones requiring an overnight stay - were an easy thing to commit to as single twentysomethings, and it even transpired that several relationships and marriages were forged as a result. But then suddenly those single twentysomethings became married thirtysomethings with Responsibilities and Mortgages and Children, and far less disposable cash and free time - and subsequently overtired fortysomethings with spreading waistlines and slowing metabolisms. Too many simply died. With no new twentysomethings to keep them going, Meets just dwindled away.
So now we have a smaller and older membership with fewer real-life links to maintain a sense of community, and a growing sense of staleness and ennui that comes from the dearth of new posters who can bring fresh perspectives and enthusiasm to the boards. None of which has been helped by the ongoing extirpation of traditionalist or right-wing views that's been going on for the last few years as the Ship undertakes a deliberate shift in ethos from Christian Unrest to 'Progressive' Echo Chamber. It may feel a bit stale to be having essentially the same argument for the howevermanyth time, but having essentially the same argument for the howevermanyth time but with only one side allowed to contribute is just pointless.
A lot of us have known each other for many years. I share things here that I share nowhere else.
It was lazy and thoughtless of me, and I apologize.
Sarasa, AS host who is very glad she found this place a long time ago, though not as long ago as some of you.
All of these things make me sad.
If there are other lurkers out there reading this, hop on board you will enjoy it more than you realise!
Reconsidering my mode of operation these days because of what perceive as the downsides of mega social media.
My accounts on X, Insta and Threads are gone. FB may not be far behind though I grieve the loss of utility. Just can’t stand contributing to the coffers of boot-lickers. What a world.
But the people I know from here are important to me and my time here has enriched my life immensely- especially at a time of drastic change where I desperately needed the community that I experienced.
OMG welcome back! If you want to connect on FB (I'm not leaving), please send me a message...
This is a good point. It has an analogue in failing churches' plaintive cries "We have to attract the young people", while they can never compete with Pente and Baptist megachurches' razzamatazz. Nor should they try. But the very strength which they seek is already in the pews (comfortable seats nowadays, I hope, thankyou ****** Uniting Church for selling us a pew which now graces our back verandah and boosted your coffers to boot). And bit by bit, grandkids whom we baptised wander along for a refreshing change and quaff of the numinous.
The Ship is as far removed from the superficiality of Facebook and sheer nastiness of Twitter as - let's get biblical - but not ecclesiastical! - East is from West. This community is a strength, let's play to it.
I don't know if it's the Ship that's changed or simply that I've been away a while and change is natural, a bit like going back to a town you used to live in and discovering that some of the shops have changed. But I do know that I've changed. I'm older, for a start (though you'd never think it to look at me!
I realised that my "there's nothing on telly worth watching" is not that there's nothing on so much as, in a lifetime of viewing, I've seen so many versions of things I like to watch that it'd be nigh on impossible for anyone to make a programme or movie that was different enough to catch my interest but similar enough to be what I enjoy. Does that make sense? And I think possibly it's the same with the Ship.
There's no way I'd ask my partner to tolerate me spending hours online the way I used to or to have 30 strangers I met on the internet come and stay for a weekend! My days are full of work and my weekends often spoken for with aging family or grown up sons.
Having said that, it's lovely to see so many familiar avatars and names and to pop in from time to time to see what people are up to, especially now Facebook seems not to want to show me anything but adverts and memes.
Who can forget the Paschal Penguin?
Word. The damage wrought by algorithmically-controlled information dissemination is harder to ignore when those benefitting overtly demonstrate their disregard for most humans.
As much as I absolutely don't have the time I used to for thread engagement here, the value of interacting with this smaller subset of knowable entities has become clearer. Especially in context of the not-for-profit structures here.