A marriage shop?
Gracious Rebel
Shipmate
My own church (Baptist/URC LEP) in in the process of deciding whether to register to conduct same sex marriages. An objection has been voiced that this could result in us becoming a 'marriage shop' for gay couples, who would turn up just to get married and perhaps never be seen again. For the person with this reservation, such a scenario would be a Bad Thing, to be avoided at all costs.
But I'm not so sure. Surely it can only present the church in a good light if we are willing to marry people who cannot marry in many other churches. And since there are plenty of secular venues offering weddings these days, including those of same sex couples, a couple who come specifically seeking a church wedding would surely be at least sympathetic to the idea of Christian belief. If they are Christians from other churches who cannot marry them at present, isn't it a kind and loving thing to offer, a demonstration of Christian values. And if they are not religious themselves, but are happy to have a Christian marriage, that could be a means of introducing them to the faith.
I don't think there would be that many takers anyway, but even if there were some who turn up simply to get married, would that make us a marriage shop, and would that actually be a bad thing?
I guess it's somewhat analogous to straight couples marrying in the Cof E who are not part of the faith community . I suspect this doesn't happen nearly as often nowadays as in the past, since so many other wedding venues are available. So we may be worrying about nothing!
But I'm not so sure. Surely it can only present the church in a good light if we are willing to marry people who cannot marry in many other churches. And since there are plenty of secular venues offering weddings these days, including those of same sex couples, a couple who come specifically seeking a church wedding would surely be at least sympathetic to the idea of Christian belief. If they are Christians from other churches who cannot marry them at present, isn't it a kind and loving thing to offer, a demonstration of Christian values. And if they are not religious themselves, but are happy to have a Christian marriage, that could be a means of introducing them to the faith.
I don't think there would be that many takers anyway, but even if there were some who turn up simply to get married, would that make us a marriage shop, and would that actually be a bad thing?
I guess it's somewhat analogous to straight couples marrying in the Cof E who are not part of the faith community . I suspect this doesn't happen nearly as often nowadays as in the past, since so many other wedding venues are available. So we may be worrying about nothing!
Comments
And everything that @Sojourner said.
How to drive people away…
My practice was to allow couples to get married by Superintendent Registrar’s Certificate, because my experience was that if I merely encouraged them to get married in a parish church, where they were legally entitled to get married, they simply went to one of the wedding venues here. I felt that it was a better thing for the life of the Church (generally, not this specific parish and congregation), and for the people concerned to welcome them and allow them to get married here in the hope/expectation that a favourable impression of church here and the welcome of the church community would play some part in their spiritual journey.
I also rather doubt you’ll become a marriage shop.
We only seem to conduct weddings for members and their offspring. I dont think it is a policy, its just the way it has panned out. We just dont get people walking off the street asking to be married at our place.
Like other churches here the number of weddings has fallen off a cliff. I can't remember the last one ...... it must be pre-Covid.
Our building is not one favoured for weddings due to it's modern facade, it's a multipurpose building, so no pews and very plain. I don't know whether that is part of the reason it's less popular or whether it's that in combination with the many other alternatives open to people.
I would be very happy if our parish offered same sex marriage services, but I suspect that's a long way off and I'm in a minority, I suspect.
Under the law of my province I can't yet conduct same-sex weddings, but can conduct blessings of same sex unions.
I have wrestled endlessly with the question of wedding shop. The joy on almost all the couples' faces as they exchange their vows make me suspect that it is the right call ... they have opted for some sort of faith beased experience (fore some of the Chinese it may be "culture-based") ... but perhaps that's just my excuse because the income keeps the parish afloat (I take only about 7% of the total as celebrant's fee) and .. but maybe that's just an excuse?
She appealed to TPTB for help, and one of the Cathedral clergy was seconded to the parish to assist her with the pastoral side of things (Mother Vicar took this seriously) and the actual services - the volunteer parish administrator helped with the paperwork.
This worked well, but no doubt the number of weddings has fallen off post-Covid (as, indeed, alas! has that parish's congregation
We were married in a small pretty church in our home town and were active members of the Parish. We did one of those multiple choice questionnaire things that was then sent away for analysis to identify strengths and weaknesses in our relationship. I wonder if UK parishes (or those in the USA) do anything similar prior to weddings being finalised. I suspect this was a tool that our Rector preferred to use to initiate conversations and I don't know if it is something anyone still uses.
No takers, though, apart from a young couple - last year IIRC - who were members of the regular congregation. The other 2 or 3 weddings I can remember were also of people already connected with the church.
Given the rather conservative nature of the management, I doubt very much if we'll ever be offering same-sex blessings, or same-sex marriages once such things are allowed in the C of E.
Since the worship center I worship in is built in the round, it really has not been used too much for weddings. We can reconfigure the seating arrangements, but no one wants to go through the trouble these days.
Around here, destination weddings are the big thing. When our youngest son got married, the chose a church camp in Montana, at a very large lake. Everyone stayed on the campsite through the weekend. We arrived on Friday, Service was on Saturday. Morning after breakfast on Sunday.
Previous son also had a destination wedding in California at an exclusive private park. I remember it was the hottest day of the year. The wedding was out in the open. The wedding party literally had sweat dripping off their clothes. But, as the sun was going down, it cooled quite a bit and the dinner was quite enjoyable. Towards the evening a herd of deer appeared in the meadow. The young kids really loved seeing them.
The next day, Mrs Gramps and I hosted a breakfast for the wedding party in another park. While we were enjoying the meal, a man with a donkey came up. The donkey had been used as the model for the movie, Shrek. The kids enjoyed riding on it. BTW, we were at San Jose, CA. The Dreamworks production facility was less than a mile away.
The Uniting Church of Australia allows both ministers and congregations to decide if they will allow/participate in same-sex marriages, and a few have happened.
For centuries after the start of Christianity churches did not control weddings. I suppose that started when marriage was declared a sacrament. Not sure about this as I am non-sacramental.
Of the Lutheran bodies in the US, the ELCA says it is now up to the clergy whether they perform same sex weddings. Most congregations now allow it, though a few reject it.
For me, it is a matter of compatibility. I performed the neighbor's wedding, but I had known them for at least five years.
But I am not usually asked to perform weddings anymore.
The donkey, Perry, died at the beginning of this month and is much mourned. That area has had donkeys since the 1950s (originally privately owned and stayed with the land when it became a park). They are very familiar to the hordes of students who take the bike path through the park to get to and from their schools.
https://barronparkdonkeys.org/
(and it's okay, hosts, if that outs me ... I'm boring and uncontroversial)
But as a result we have many weddings and many many more blessings of marriages - the latter predominately of Chinese couples who were married in what they tell me were boring and bloated civil (of course) ceremonies at home. I have four next week. At least. I've been on sick leave so not sure of the final count. At $800 each.
Ouch.
For 40 years I've run ugly churches that charge about $150 and get about one a year - from a true believer with a church link.
The carrot of course is the photos. Thousands it seems of them. Therefore the aesthetic, too. For some the faith is a dimension. For some the "Englishness" ... Downton Abbeyesque in the couples' minds, is The Thing. The ceremony is conducted in English. Some couples nod knowingly.
The photographers ... not so much. To borrow an Australianism, they run round like a blue arsed fly.
But all the couples are deeply moved, and it is a privilege (and a pay cheque/check for the parish) to be there.
I have no choice. But am I whoring myself and church? Or is the touch of God a Thing?
As I wrote to a prospective, er, client this week, "It is very awkward asking a fee for 'blessing' but the income from such blessings is essential if we are to keep the church in operation, through which others may receive blessing."
Excuses excuses?
(A priest told me baptisms are $1000!: $250 plus this community fee again, from the Godparent, of $750. I'm not impressed. But I'm reprobate anyway so I may as well add disagreeing with a Bishop to my sins...)
Of the few we have had, a significant proportion have been people later in life formalising long standing relationships. They can be lovely, joyful and relaxed. Bridezillas tend to be younger.
LKK, you should know this. It is the Uniting Church IN Australia.
Same in the C of E, I think. Our Place doesn't have many funerals or weddings these days, but we manage four or five baptisms per annum. My Spy tells me that (unsolicited) cash donations from the baptismal party are often quite generous, and much appreciated.
I think we have a suggested donation. We certainly donated something when the Quinie married but it was a minor expense in the much bigger scheme of wedding expenses.
This.
At a previous church in the UK, we had two young parishioners get married. Both faithful parishioners, neither had much money. We cheerfully waived every fee we could, and the PCC members had a whip-round to pay the statutory fees. The couple wore the best clothes they owned, and we had a pot luck meal in the church hall afterwards.
This wedding was very much the exception...
I've never understood gatekeeping the sacraments by any denomination. It's dumb.
Nenya - Ecclesiantics Host