The words of I cannot tell were written by one William Young Fullerton (1857-1932), so one presumes that it was he who intended them to be sung to Londonderry Air.
IMHO he made a big mistake, if he assumed that an average congregation was going to do justice to the hymn...the words are OK, I suppose, but O! that ghastly tune...
The Rock (Build your house on the rock, on this land you won't be knocked. With actions.) A Thousand Generations (And the angels cry Holy) Alone in my sorrow and dead in my sin (which we sang last week and seem determined to keep slogging at continue to worship with) Lord, I come to you (Hold me close, let your love surround me)
Choir:
. . .
Put peace into each other’s hands, / Kaan, Barnard
We had the Holstein arrangement of that (ST COLUMBA) at our place. The hymns were:
“This Is the Day (Este es el día)(Ps. 118)/ESTE ES EL DÍA
“God of Grace and God of Glory”/CWM RHONDDA
“Today We All Are Called to Be Disciples”/KINGSFOLD
“The Church of Christ Cannot Be Bound”/McKEE
“Immortal, invisible, God only wise” - St Denio.
“Shine from the inside out” (children's song).
“God of mercy, God of grace” - Heathlands.
“Come see Mount Sinai” - Pantyfedwen.
and
...
“Shine, Jesus, shine” (to be fair, we haven't had it for nearly 5 years!)
What wasn't sung? As there are all sorts of musical and theological traditions here, I'll list them all this time. I'm not Catholic but enjoy this style of music, though am not familiar with a lot of it (I took photos of the service sheet! 🙂)
O salutaris Hostia (O Saving Victim) O God, come to our aid...
Hymn: Praise my soul, the King of Heaven.
First Antiphon: Psalm 110
Second Antiphon: Psalm 111
Third Antiphon: Revelation 19:1, 2, 5-7
Motet: Hear the Voice and Prayer (Tallis) Great is our God, Great is His Might Magnificat
Intercessions / Our Father Tantum ergo sacramentum (Humbly we, before Him bending...) You have given them bread from heaven. Having in itself all delight.
A Benediction. O God, Who in a wonderful Sacrament... The Divine Praises Adoremus in aeternum Sanctissimum Sacramentum (Let us adore forever the Most Holy Sacrament; which is also written above the altar under the roof) Salve Regina
---
I found myself a long way away in Sydney last Wednesday and was told the Arab Orthodox were having Vespers, with a beautiful "Akathist" (described his amazing life in beautiful detail) beforehand, for St Raphael of Brooklyn. Arabic and English. Some relics of his have arrived in Australia also, brought by the Bishop from America. I was given this link yesterday which has some photos. Beautiful chanting, again, all of it sung, or at least the overwhelming majority, by the choirs. There was another service Thursday but I did not attend.
First Sunday in the month "Hymns of Praise" service.
Christ, Whose Glory Fills the Skys / RATISBON
Take My Life and Let it Be / NOTTINGHAM
The Lord's My Shepherd / CRIMOND
Break Thou the Bread of Life / BREAK THOU . . .
Lead Us, Heavenly Father, Lead Us / MANNHEIM
Incidentally, this monthly service is the only one at Our Place where The Psalms are used. One Psalm is said responsively (not chanted).
Our early morning service was the warm-up act for a service of believers' baptism in the Main morning service. Theme today The King who demands Allegiance.
Jesus is Lord! Creation's voice proclaims it (David Mansell)
Hail to the Lord's Anointed (Crueger)
Jesus Is King and I Will Extol Him (Wendy Churchill)
And to finish with, that fine old baptismal hymn (it was mine a long, long time ago)
O Jesus, I Have Promised (Thornbury)
Eternal Father, strong to save* - Melita All Heaven declares** - All Heaven Declares Christ, whose glory fills the skies - Ratisbon Purify my heart** - Refiner's Fire God is walking his porpoise out - Benson
* Rev'd Rosie said she had no memory of putting that hymn down, but it's on the list that she sent out to the choir back in January. No matter; it was quite apt for the current world situation ("and give, for wild confusion, peace"), and also a jolly good gulder!
Hmm. EFSTS may well be suitable for today's world situation, but God is working his purpose out is not - it is so palpably untrue, unless the Dualists have it right, and it is le mal Dieu (the bad god) who is presently in charge...
The choruses are OK, though - we have them both at Our Place (not today, I think).
I know both of those ‘modern’ ones. We sometimes have them.
Sunday before Lent, parish communion.
Alleluia, sing to Jesus (Hyfrydol)
Longing for light ( Christ be our light)
Bright the vision that delighted (Laus Deo)
Be still for the presence of the Lord
Guide me O thou great redeemer. (Cwm Rhondda )
Mass of St Thomas
I know both of those ‘modern’ ones. We sometimes have them.
Sunday before Lent, parish communion.
Alleluia, sing to Jesus (Hyfrydol)
Longing for light ( Christ be our light)
Bright the vision that delighted (Laus Deo)
Be still for the presence of the Lord
Guide me O thou great redeemer. (Cwm Rhondda )
Mass of St Thomas
An excellent choice, although I don't know the Mass.
No more Sunday Alleluias until Easter for us.
I saw a video from a parish in the USA (Chicago, I think) where much ado was made of taking a highly decorated panel with Alleluia painted on it and "burying" until Easter.
We don't go that far!
A Google search for Burying the Alleluia produced a lot of fascinating information.
Hmm. EFSTS may well be suitable for today's world situation, but God is working his purpose out is not - it is so palpably untrue, unless the Dualists have it right, and it is le mal Dieu (the bad god) who is presently in charge...
Or, unless the point is that despite all signs to the contrary around us, God’s purposes will ultimately not be thwarted, that God’s will will prevail. I have faith that is quite true; and I think we’re called to participate in bringing it about.
Today (The Transfiguration of the Lord per our calendar) we had:
“Immortal, Invisible, God Only Wise”/ ST. DENIO
“Jesus, Take Us to the Mountain”/UNSER HERRSCHER
“Come! Live In the Light!” (“We Are Called”)/WE ARE CALLED
A week off last Sunday so 8am only which was refreshing.
Sunday before Lent
We praise thy name all holy Lord (St Matthew)
In days of old on Sinai (Penlan)
Ye watchers and ye holy ones (Easter Song)
Jesus these eyes have never seen (St Agnes)
Alleluia song of sweetness (Alleluia dulce carmen)
A jumbled collection imho, a nod to St David, a glut of Alleluias and a couple of Transfiguration appropriate items. Good singing with much crooning in "St Agnes" 🤣
Evensong for Quinquagesima
Love divine (Love divine)
Gracious spirit Holy Ghost (Charity)
Immortal love (Bishopthorpe)
Dear Lord and Father (Repton)
I do love me some Moses Hogan! Sang a few of his arrangements during college...hard to pick a favorite!
Today we had:
Immortal, Invisible (ST. DENIO)
You, O God, Are Both Lamb And Shepherd (PICARDY)
O Light of Light, Love Given Birth (JESU DULCIS MEMORIA)
O Wondrous Type (WAREHAM)
I've always sung O Wondrous Type to DEO GRACIAS, but it is in WAREHAM in our hymnal, and it's a serviceable enough tune, although, by and large, I find tunes named after Welsh cities to be more to my liking on average than those named after English or Scottish ones (of course, exceptions do exist )
Horrors of horrors we had that shiny song again. Thankfully only one miscreant succumbed to the clap clap clap and everyone else sat on their hands.
Egregious sin as clapping in SJS is (although not as egregious has having the damned thing in the first place) it's a bit much to have a whole congregation sitting on the miscreant's hands.
At an church where clapping and moving was encouraged, the worship leader moved down the aisle and paused by me, who was not clapping, and encouraged me by expression and clapping her hands very near me. I gave a look that said, "No", and after several seconds she moved on.
I felt a bit guilty, but clapping is not my thing. She became a Catholic in later years and apologised to me [she married my closest friend, hence us still being in contact] (not that Catholics can't clap; she is more modern in her tastes than secular me who lives in the 17th century) -- I had actually forgotten all about it and we laughed.
Gather your people, O Lord
(was Forty Days and Forty Nights, but at 6:55 there was a replacement of 2 hymns on the board)
A Trusting Psalm (Lord, let your mercy be on us)
Grant to us, O Lord
Amazing Grace
Not sung, but hearing "Repent and believe the Gospel" as ashes were marked was quite powerful.
Bless the Lord, O my soul (The sun comes up, it's a new day dawning) God, I look to you, I won't be overwhelmed (I will love you, Lord my strength) I want to know you, Jesus my Lord (I've tried in vain a thousand ways) I lift my hands to the coming king Be thou my vision
Anyone sing anything at an Ash Wednesday service today? Our Place will be having a couple of hymns at the 730pm Mass, and I have no doubt that one of them will be Forty days and forty nights (Aus Der Tiefe).
They might have had it at the 10am Mass, if more than 2 or 3 were there, and it's always the entrance hymn for the First Sunday in Lent, because Tradition™.
I note that quite a few C of E Cathedrals are holding their main Eucharists this evening, most of which will be livestreamed, and available to view on good ol' YouTube.
Anyone sing anything at an Ash Wednesday service today? Our Place will be having a couple of hymns at the 730pm Mass, and I have no doubt that one of them will be Forty days and forty nights (Aus Der Tiefe).
I saw an image of a page of that hymn today set to the tune used for "Hark, the herald angels sing." Now it won't leave my head, and it keeps making me giggle. Naughty-ish!
I have to ask (and this may not be the right place to ask it) - why has said "Shiny song" become such an object of detestation? Yes, I grant that it may not be everyone's cup of tea - but the same could be said of "Spem in Alium", "Praise to the holiest in the height" or even "There were ninety and nine". I also grant that it has been overused in the past, sometimes in inappropriate contexts or with inappropriate accompaniment.
But these things alone don't account for why the song - which, let's not forget, is now nearly 40 years old - has been such a lightning-rod for invective. Is it because, in many churches, it was one of the earliest "worship songs" to be introduced and has therefore become regarded as the first step down a slippery slope of perceived musical degradation?
I have to ask (and this may not be the right place to ask it) - why has said "Shiny song" become such an object of detestation? Yes, I grant that it may not be everyone's cup of tea - but the same could be said of "Spem in Alium", "Praise to the holiest in the height" or even "There were ninety and nine". I also grant that it has been overused in the past, sometimes in inappropriate contexts or with inappropriate accompaniment.
But these things alone don't account for why the song - which, let's not forget, is now nearly 40 years old - has been such a lightning-rod for invective. Is it because, in many churches, it was one of the earliest "worship songs" to be introduced and has therefore become regarded as the first step down a slippery slope of perceived musical degradation?
I think it was one of the first to escape the Songs of Fluffiness ghetto into the mainstream. So it's frequently experienced by people who wouldn't be seen dead where the worship song genre is generally to be found.
Personally I'm not a fan but I'll take a dozen SJSes over a single "Be still for the presence of the Lord", a song I really loathe.
I have never minded it. It is far, far beter than the kind of Victorian pap I grew up with, hymns full of sentimental Victorian drivel and Nellie Dean harmonies written by the likes of Frederick Faber.
Its far better than some of the stuff I have recently come across with its angry Father theology. Now I REALLY hate that stuff.
SJS was said to be a very popular hymn in the Chapel of an independent school where Mr Puzzler once taught. It was sung with gusto ( but no clapping) by Year 11 boys in particular, though there may have been an element of mickey-taking, I grant you. There are far worse hymns and worship songs in my opinion.
There was at one time a brief clip of the Minions singing SJS, but it seems to have been removed from YouTube...
FWIW, I don't especially object to the theology (though the words are a bit odd - why sing to a river ?), but I get a bit fed up when it's wheeled out so often - presumably in an attempt to appeal to the Yoof (which in Our Place's case we have not got).
Most of our younger people are students (largely from Kerala, in India), who have probably not been brought up on a diet of Graham Kendrick. Some are possibly RC, others Mar Thoma, and we also have a youngish Lutheran family from Germany, a denomination in which hymnody tends (AFAIK) to be traditional and objective.
As for Be still, for the presence of the Lord, I agree with @KarlLB that this one is also over-exposed, though I still like it . I won't bore you with it, but there is a YouTube video of a Romanian chanteuse singing BSFTPOTL (in English) whilst wandering around within and without an apparently disused Lutheran church in Romania.
A little odd, maybe, but a quick Google revealed that the church (which was neat and tidy inside, but in need of some painting and decoration) is still in use - presumably by a small, but dedicated and faithful, congregation, to whom the words of the hymn may be very meaningful indeed,
There was at one time a brief clip of the Minions singing SJS, but it seems to have been removed from YouTube...
FWIW, I don't especially object to the theology (though the words are a bit odd - why sing to a river ?), but I get a bit fed up when it's wheeled out so often - presumably in an attempt to appeal to the Yoof (which in Our Place's case we have not got).
Most of our younger people are students (largely from Kerala, in India), who have probably not been brought up on a diet of Graham Kendrick. Some are possibly RC, others Mar Thoma, and we also have a youngish Lutheran family from Germany, a denomination in which hymnody tends (AFAIK) to be traditional and objective.
As for Be still, for the presence of the Lord, I agree with @KarlLB that this one is also over-exposed, though I still like it . I won't bore you with it, but there is a YouTube video of a Romanian chanteuse singing BSFTPOTL (in English) whilst wandering around within and without an apparently disused Lutheran church in Romania.
A little odd, maybe, but a quick Google revealed that the church (which was neat and tidy inside, but in need of some painting and decoration) is still in use - presumably by a small, but dedicated and faithful, congregation, to whom the words of the hymn may be very meaningful indeed,
My reasons for hating BSFTPOTL is nothing to do with overuse. It's baggage.
I like Be Still and SJS. And this Sunday I'm strongly tempted to drag out something of a similar vintage: You who dwell in the shelter of the Lord. *ducks*
“Be Still, for the Presence of the Lord” isn’t one I’m familiar with.
I don’t particularly like “Shine, Jesus, Shine,” but my feelings about it aren’t at all related to the “clappiness” of it. I just personally find it a little bit of a mess, both poetically and musically.
Comments
IMHO he made a big mistake, if he assumed that an average congregation was going to do justice to the hymn...the words are OK, I suppose, but O! that ghastly tune...
We conducted a tour of hymns from my primary school days (at least 3, possibly four I could still see written in blue and green OHP marker).
Make way
What a friend we have in Jesus
We have heard a joyful sound
When I needed a neighbour
One more step
Wiki tells me that Fullerton was an Irish Baptist evangelist, hence the use of Londonderry Air:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Young_Fullerton
A Thousand Generations (And the angels cry Holy)
Alone in my sorrow and dead in my sin (which we sang last week and seem determined to keep slogging at continue to worship with)
Lord, I come to you (Hold me close, let your love surround me)
“This Is the Day (Este es el día)(Ps. 118)/ESTE ES EL DÍA
“God of Grace and God of Glory”/CWM RHONDDA
“Today We All Are Called to Be Disciples”/KINGSFOLD
“The Church of Christ Cannot Be Bound”/McKEE
Lord of all hopefulness (Slane)
Something from the Sheet*
Amazing grace (Amazing Grace)
Lord, the light of your love (Shine, Jesus, Shine AGAIN!
*This might be 'Tis good, Lord, to be here, a popular hymn which, rather oddly, isn't in our default hymnbook.
“Shine from the inside out” (children's song).
“God of mercy, God of grace” - Heathlands.
“Come see Mount Sinai” - Pantyfedwen.
and
...
“Shine, Jesus, shine” (to be fair, we haven't had it for nearly 5 years!)
Solemn Vespers and Benediction. Catholic Cathedral. Sunday afternoon. Psalm Week 4.
What wasn't sung? As there are all sorts of musical and theological traditions here, I'll list them all this time. I'm not Catholic but enjoy this style of music, though am not familiar with a lot of it (I took photos of the service sheet! 🙂)
O salutaris Hostia (O Saving Victim)
O God, come to our aid...
Hymn: Praise my soul, the King of Heaven.
First Antiphon: Psalm 110
Second Antiphon: Psalm 111
Third Antiphon: Revelation 19:1, 2, 5-7
Motet: Hear the Voice and Prayer (Tallis)
Great is our God, Great is His Might
Magnificat
Intercessions / Our Father
Tantum ergo sacramentum (Humbly we, before Him bending...)
You have given them bread from heaven. Having in itself all delight.
A Benediction.
O God, Who in a wonderful Sacrament...
The Divine Praises
Adoremus in aeternum Sanctissimum Sacramentum (Let us adore forever the Most Holy Sacrament; which is also written above the altar under the roof)
Salve Regina
---
I found myself a long way away in Sydney last Wednesday and was told the Arab Orthodox were having Vespers, with a beautiful "Akathist" (described his amazing life in beautiful detail) beforehand, for St Raphael of Brooklyn. Arabic and English. Some relics of his have arrived in Australia also, brought by the Bishop from America. I was given this link yesterday which has some photos. Beautiful chanting, again, all of it sung, or at least the overwhelming majority, by the choirs. There was another service Thursday but I did not attend.
Christ, Whose Glory Fills the Skys / RATISBON
Take My Life and Let it Be / NOTTINGHAM
The Lord's My Shepherd / CRIMOND
Break Thou the Bread of Life / BREAK THOU . . .
Lead Us, Heavenly Father, Lead Us / MANNHEIM
Incidentally, this monthly service is the only one at Our Place where The Psalms are used. One Psalm is said responsively (not chanted).
Jesus is Lord! Creation's voice proclaims it (David Mansell)
Hail to the Lord's Anointed (Crueger)
Jesus Is King and I Will Extol Him (Wendy Churchill)
And to finish with, that fine old baptismal hymn (it was mine a long, long time ago)
O Jesus, I Have Promised (Thornbury)
Eternal Father, strong to save* - Melita
All Heaven declares** - All Heaven Declares
Christ, whose glory fills the skies - Ratisbon
Purify my heart** - Refiner's Fire
God is walking his porpoise out - Benson
* Rev'd Rosie said she had no memory of putting that hymn down, but it's on the list that she sent out to the choir back in January. No matter; it was quite apt for the current world situation ("and give, for wild confusion, peace"), and also a jolly good gulder!
** More silly wee choruses ...
The choruses are OK, though - we have them both at Our Place (not today, I think).
We too try to mix "traditional" with "more modern" although we're by no means up to speed with newer worship songs!
Sunday before Lent, parish communion.
Alleluia, sing to Jesus (Hyfrydol)
Longing for light ( Christ be our light)
Bright the vision that delighted (Laus Deo)
Be still for the presence of the Lord
Guide me O thou great redeemer. (Cwm Rhondda )
Mass of St Thomas
My Spy tells me that today's hymn from The Sheet was indeed 'Tis good, Lord, to be here (Carlisle).
An excellent choice, although I don't know the Mass.
I saw a video from a parish in the USA (Chicago, I think) where much ado was made of taking a highly decorated panel with Alleluia painted on it and "burying" until Easter.
We don't go that far!
A Google search for Burying the Alleluia produced a lot of fascinating information.
Today (The Transfiguration of the Lord per our calendar) we had:
“Immortal, Invisible, God Only Wise”/ ST. DENIO
“Jesus, Take Us to the Mountain”/UNSER HERRSCHER
“Come! Live In the Light!” (“We Are Called”)/WE ARE CALLED
And the choir sang Moses Hogan’s arrangement of “I’m Gonna Sit at the Welcome Table,” “God’s Gonna Set This World on Fire.”
The others were:
As now the sun's declining rays - St Columba
My God, I love thee, not because - St Francis Xavier*
Glory to thee my God this night - Tallis' Canon**
* St Fulbert would have been my choice.
** before you ask, no we didn't.
Sunday before Lent
We praise thy name all holy Lord (St Matthew)
In days of old on Sinai (Penlan)
Ye watchers and ye holy ones (Easter Song)
Jesus these eyes have never seen (St Agnes)
Alleluia song of sweetness (Alleluia dulce carmen)
A jumbled collection imho, a nod to St David, a glut of Alleluias and a couple of Transfiguration appropriate items. Good singing with much crooning in "St Agnes" 🤣
Evensong for Quinquagesima
Love divine (Love divine)
Gracious spirit Holy Ghost (Charity)
Immortal love (Bishopthorpe)
Dear Lord and Father (Repton)
I do love me some Moses Hogan! Sang a few of his arrangements during college...hard to pick a favorite!
Today we had:
Immortal, Invisible (ST. DENIO)
You, O God, Are Both Lamb And Shepherd (PICARDY)
O Light of Light, Love Given Birth (JESU DULCIS MEMORIA)
O Wondrous Type (WAREHAM)
I've always sung O Wondrous Type to DEO GRACIAS, but it is in WAREHAM in our hymnal, and it's a serviceable enough tune, although, by and large, I find tunes named after Welsh cities to be more to my liking on average than those named after English or Scottish ones (of course, exceptions do exist
Was the miscreant the Vicar, by any chance?
Egregious sin as clapping in SJS is (although not as egregious has having the damned thing in the first place) it's a bit much to have a whole congregation sitting on the miscreant's hands.
I felt a bit guilty, but clapping is not my thing. She became a Catholic in later years and apologised to me [she married my closest friend, hence us still being in contact] (not that Catholics can't clap; she is more modern in her tastes than secular me who lives in the 17th century) -- I had actually forgotten all about it and we laughed.
Gather your people, O Lord
(was Forty Days and Forty Nights, but at 6:55 there was a replacement of 2 hymns on the board)
A Trusting Psalm (Lord, let your mercy be on us)
Grant to us, O Lord
Amazing Grace
Not sung, but hearing "Repent and believe the Gospel" as ashes were marked was quite powerful.
Bless the Lord, O my soul (The sun comes up, it's a new day dawning)
God, I look to you, I won't be overwhelmed (I will love you, Lord my strength)
I want to know you, Jesus my Lord (I've tried in vain a thousand ways)
I lift my hands to the coming king
Be thou my vision
They might have had it at the 10am Mass, if more than 2 or 3 were there, and it's always the entrance hymn for the First Sunday in Lent, because Tradition™.
I note that quite a few C of E Cathedrals are holding their main Eucharists this evening, most of which will be livestreamed, and available to view on good ol' YouTube.
I saw an image of a page of that hymn today set to the tune used for "Hark, the herald angels sing." Now it won't leave my head, and it keeps making me giggle. Naughty-ish!
Actually I think you will find it's clap clap clap clap😜
But these things alone don't account for why the song - which, let's not forget, is now nearly 40 years old - has been such a lightning-rod for invective. Is it because, in many churches, it was one of the earliest "worship songs" to be introduced and has therefore become regarded as the first step down a slippery slope of perceived musical degradation?
I think it was one of the first to escape the Songs of Fluffiness ghetto into the mainstream. So it's frequently experienced by people who wouldn't be seen dead where the worship song genre is generally to be found.
Personally I'm not a fan but I'll take a dozen SJSes over a single "Be still for the presence of the Lord", a song I really loathe.
Its far better than some of the stuff I have recently come across with its angry Father theology. Now I REALLY hate that stuff.
Blimey. That is staid.
FWIW, I don't especially object to the theology (though the words are a bit odd - why sing to a river ?), but I get a bit fed up when it's wheeled out so often - presumably in an attempt to appeal to the Yoof (which in Our Place's case we have not got).
Most of our younger people are students (largely from Kerala, in India), who have probably not been brought up on a diet of Graham Kendrick. Some are possibly RC, others Mar Thoma, and we also have a youngish Lutheran family from Germany, a denomination in which hymnody tends (AFAIK) to be traditional and objective.
As for Be still, for the presence of the Lord, I agree with @KarlLB that this one is also over-exposed, though I still like it
A little odd, maybe, but a quick Google revealed that the church (which was neat and tidy inside, but in need of some painting and decoration) is still in use - presumably by a small, but dedicated and faithful, congregation, to whom the words of the hymn may be very meaningful indeed,
Well, quite. Mr Kendrick is older than me!
My reasons for hating BSFTPOTL is nothing to do with overuse. It's baggage.
I don’t particularly like “Shine, Jesus, Shine,” but my feelings about it aren’t at all related to the “clappiness” of it. I just personally find it a little bit of a mess, both poetically and musically.