Some cats are happier about being indoors than others. Our two, although rescue cats, are apparently part Norwegian Forest and they hate being shut in for long. They do come in for the night, though they grumble loudly about this in summer and the younger one tries to pick the cat flap open with her claws (which she can sometimes manage if it’s on the “in only” setting).
I am fairly sure we have now managed to convey to them that the wrath of God, ourselves and every other civilized person will descend upon them if they catch birds, but mice are fair game as long as the cats keep them outside.
You could say the same thing about caring for any pet that has social needs (so, not reptiles/insects/arachnids/fish - but even they need caring for) - why get a pet if you're too busy to care for them? Surely your pet is part of your family? Nobody would suggest that it's unreasonable to expect dog owners to walk them every day.
People raised in a family and social culture where cats go out, may have specifically chosen to have a cat because they believe the cat will have enrichment needed by going out and they believe they will have the time needed to spend with their pet in addition to that.
If you told the average dog owner, who has taken on a dog in a family and social culture that expects a daily walk etc, that as of this year the expectation is now that any dog must be agility trained and/or able to be groomed to crufts standards - they’d look askance at you and might well tell you they don’t have time to do that. It doesn’t mean they don’t care about their pet. People make decisions, usually, about getting pets based partly on what they know the care expectations are, and what they know they can do.
I got a cat, and in fact am getting two more on Monday, because I grew up with cats and I have always enjoyed their company and I believed I could meet the cats’ need even as a single person working full time.
I didn’t expect to have to inject my current cat with insulin in a set regime twice a day for nine years, because he developed diabetes - nor spend the proportion of my salary needed on his specialist food, medicine and insurance that resulted from illness - but I have done that because I care very much about him and believe that having taken him into my home I have that responsibility to him. I just don’t happen to agree with you, on the basis of much the same information, about the risks and benefits of a cat having outside access in the UK specifically. It doesn’t mean I don’t care about either my cat or the environment, I have just reached a different conclusion from you.
I still don't know if my Grand-kittens will be outdoor or indoor cats. Their new flat is down a quiet lane with secluded gardens, so I suspect outdoor.
But it wouldn't be too hard for them to be indoors as (I found out today on a video tour led by my granddaughter) every patio door and window has a fly screen.
Further to my post back up the thread a bit... The blessing cat was starting to look and act a bit strange. We called a friend who is involved with cat rescues and she duly showed up to confirm a dark premonition that had come upon me, "She's pregnant!" Some miserable b****** had also figured that out and had abandoned her, far from home. Meanwhile, this not being something we can deal with very well for very long, our friend is working her network for the inevitable new homes that will be needed, and has set up a feline maternity ward in the sunroom, with a sort of darkened tent, and lots of special food. More later...
Further to my post back up the thread a bit... The blessing cat was starting to look and act a bit strange. We called a friend who is involved with cat rescues and she duly showed up to confirm a dark premonition that had come upon me, "She's pregnant!" Some miserable b****** had also figured that out and had abandoned her, far from home. Meanwhile, this not being something we can deal with very well for very long, our friend is working her network for the inevitable new homes that will be needed, and has set up a feline maternity ward in the sunroom, with a sort of darkened tent, and lots of special food. More later...
God bless you for taking care of her after someone did such a cruel thing.
(I do suggest getting her spayed after she has her babies, of course.)
Further to my post back up the thread a bit... The blessing cat was starting to look and act a bit strange. We called a friend who is involved with cat rescues and she duly showed up to confirm a dark premonition that had come upon me, "She's pregnant!" Some miserable b****** had also figured that out and had abandoned her, far from home. Meanwhile, this not being something we can deal with very well for very long, our friend is working her network for the inevitable new homes that will be needed, and has set up a feline maternity ward in the sunroom, with a sort of darkened tent, and lots of special food. More later...
God bless you for taking care of her after someone did such a cruel thing.
(I do suggest getting her spayed after she has her babies, of course.)
Amen dear ChastMastr!
On a tangent, Mrs RR was delighted when we were joined in bed by a yowling very soggy pussy at 3 am last night. 'Why?' I asked. 'It means it's been raining' Mrs RR replied', 'Praise the Lord!'.
She went back to sleep so pleased.
My grandkitties live in kitty heaven. My daughter is at home and keeps busy with my granddaughter, the house and all that, and loves playing with the kitties and cuddling them. (They were her first 'children', after all!) Only Loki will sometimes go out the front door if it's left open to gather deliveries and such. They have a huge back patio with cat towers, toys and people to wait on them paw and foot.
My Belle, as Queen of the Universe, thought she wanted to be outside and did push out the screen in the front window a couple of times. One of those times, she apparently shamed Jasmine into following her to freedom. Poor Jazzy was huddled under the bush that grew in front of the window in question. That was the one and only time she stepped out of the house. She was definitely an indoor girl.
I can't imagine how kitty afterlife could be much better than where the grandkitties live! The library has a wood tree with kitty steps up to ramps for them to climb. There are toys galore, and the staff (M&M...my kiddos) feed them twice a day. The outside patio is full of sunny places and shaded places. Plus, you know, toys and climbing things and many, many pets and cuddles.
I wouldn't mind coming back as one of their cats after I die!!
I forgot to mention that dear son-in-law works at home, so he is on cat loving duty too!
If you want the best possible interactive cat toy ever invented, a retractable steel measuring tape is it. The cat will recognise you as an incredibly talented conjuror and keep demanding more tricks by the magic snake. It works best with young cats, as old ones don't like to be outwitted and will show their annoyance.
Yes, Mochi would love that, she enjoys chasing string, etc. She also thinks the laser pen is fantastic and occasionally needs to examine it in your hand to see how it works.
My cat learnt to hack the cat flap, also he will shoot out the front door between your legs given the opportunity.
Mine does the same. He is always looking for a way to get outside and has been known to climb out of windows. Not great when it's upstairs.
We tend to let him go out for his constitutionals during the day - and keep him in at night. The cat flap used to be open all the time so he could go out as and when but that stopped when we started finding other cats inside the house. The cat distribution system where we live appears to be malfunctioning.
Indoor cats are a thing in the UK. If you adopt a cat with feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) then they have to be kept in all the time. It's fine as long as the cat has plenty to do inside and maybe a catio so they can enjoy the fresh air safely.
The cat flap used to be open all the time so he could go out as and when but that stopped when we started finding other cats inside the house.
That reminds me of the time when my mom was puzzled as to why the cat food was disappearing so quickly. She finally found out that there were four extra furry feet coming through the cat door when it was dinner time. It was a river otter!
Our two rescue cats came ready with identity chps. Our catflap is 'intelligent' and can be programmed so it will only let in cats (or otters) with the correct ID. Clever!
@Doublethink but nobody would reasonably suggest that the expectation is now that any pet dog must be agility trained - this seems like a bit of a strange straw man and I wouldn't have expected this response from you. Spending an hour or so playing with your pet is not an unreasonable ask and is a normal thing to want to do with your pet. Playing with your pet (that you CHOSE to buy or adopt!) is not equivalent to spending hundreds of pounds on medical care. Getting a pet specifically because you think they can cope with benign neglect (which is what letting a cat free-roam all day is) is a pretty horrifying attitude - I'm well aware that it's a common attitude in the UK, that doesn't make it reasonable. Neither does it make people who want to change that attitude unreasonable for expecting more from pet owners. Because yes, taking on another living being who is reliant on you for their care is a big responsibility - it isn't reasonable to provide less care just because you really want a pet. If you cannot commit to spending time on your pet's enrichment the answer is to not get that pet, not to provide substandard care.
You see this kind of attitude all the time with rodents and lagomorphs (the rabbit family), people seeing them as "starter pets" for example when they actually have very complex needs. Many people get guinea pigs thinking they can be kept with rabbits or kept in a garage or kept in a cage that is far too small. It's not unreasonable to suggest that it would be better to not have a pet than to take care of them badly. Pets are living creatures with needs of their own and not just extra cute belongings.
But in my experience UK cat owners don’t see letting their cat roam as benign neglect, but rather as meeting the cat’s need/ desire to roam. Of course they may be mistaken about that need/desire, and there may be reasons why they are reluctant to abandon that belief.
I don’t have skin in this game as although I like cats I am allergic to them. But I’ve certainly seen cats who have clean litter trays, good food, and plenty of indoor play and stimulation who nonetheless nag to be let outside.
The bit you are missing here - is that I don’t agree it’s benign neglect, nor would most UK cat owners who let their cats outdoors.
Whether you realise it or not, what you are saying to me here is both patronising and offensive. It is patronising because you are speaking to me as if I don’t realise that pets are living creatures with needs of their own - our disagreement is essentially about how best to meet those needs. It is offensive because you are stating I don’t care about my pets’ welfare - which is not true.
Perhaps now is the time for me to ask: Have you all seen the documentary Kedi? It concerns the street cats in Istanbul, "who live free but have complicated relationships with the people themselves." Cats are wonderful creatures and this documentary is a wonderful tribute to them.
The cat flap used to be open all the time so he could go out as and when but that stopped when we started finding other cats inside the house.
That reminds me of the time when my mom was puzzled as to why the cat food was disappearing so quickly. She finally found out that there were four extra furry feet coming through the cat door when it was dinner time. It was a river otter!
*squeees at the notion of a friendly visiting otter *
The cat flap used to be open all the time so he could go out as and when but that stopped when we started finding other cats inside the house.
That reminds me of the time when my mom was puzzled as to why the cat food was disappearing so quickly. She finally found out that there were four extra furry feet coming through the cat door when it was dinner time. It was a river otter!
Wow! That's lovely.
Our two visiting bengal cats aren't interested in the food - as that doesn't stay around long enough to be stolen - but in going upstairs to lie on the beds. The resident cat does not like this.
Comments
I am fairly sure we have now managed to convey to them that the wrath of God, ourselves and every other civilized person will descend upon them if they catch birds, but mice are fair game as long as the cats keep them outside.
People raised in a family and social culture where cats go out, may have specifically chosen to have a cat because they believe the cat will have enrichment needed by going out and they believe they will have the time needed to spend with their pet in addition to that.
If you told the average dog owner, who has taken on a dog in a family and social culture that expects a daily walk etc, that as of this year the expectation is now that any dog must be agility trained and/or able to be groomed to crufts standards - they’d look askance at you and might well tell you they don’t have time to do that. It doesn’t mean they don’t care about their pet. People make decisions, usually, about getting pets based partly on what they know the care expectations are, and what they know they can do.
I got a cat, and in fact am getting two more on Monday, because I grew up with cats and I have always enjoyed their company and I believed I could meet the cats’ need even as a single person working full time.
I didn’t expect to have to inject my current cat with insulin in a set regime twice a day for nine years, because he developed diabetes - nor spend the proportion of my salary needed on his specialist food, medicine and insurance that resulted from illness - but I have done that because I care very much about him and believe that having taken him into my home I have that responsibility to him. I just don’t happen to agree with you, on the basis of much the same information, about the risks and benefits of a cat having outside access in the UK specifically. It doesn’t mean I don’t care about either my cat or the environment, I have just reached a different conclusion from you.
But it wouldn't be too hard for them to be indoors as (I found out today on a video tour led by my granddaughter) every patio door and window has a fly screen.
I don't mind either way. 🐈
God bless you for taking care of her after someone did such a cruel thing.
(I do suggest getting her spayed after she has her babies, of course.)
Amen dear ChastMastr!
On a tangent, Mrs RR was delighted when we were joined in bed by a yowling very soggy pussy at 3 am last night. 'Why?' I asked. 'It means it's been raining' Mrs RR replied', 'Praise the Lord!'.
She went back to sleep so pleased.
My Belle, as Queen of the Universe, thought she wanted to be outside and did push out the screen in the front window a couple of times. One of those times, she apparently shamed Jasmine into following her to freedom. Poor Jazzy was huddled under the bush that grew in front of the window in question. That was the one and only time she stepped out of the house. She was definitely an indoor girl.
I wouldn't mind coming back as one of their cats after I die!!
I forgot to mention that dear son-in-law works at home, so he is on cat loving duty too!
Mine does the same. He is always looking for a way to get outside and has been known to climb out of windows. Not great when it's upstairs.
We tend to let him go out for his constitutionals during the day - and keep him in at night. The cat flap used to be open all the time so he could go out as and when but that stopped when we started finding other cats inside the house. The cat distribution system where we live appears to be malfunctioning.
Indoor cats are a thing in the UK. If you adopt a cat with feline immunodeficiency virus (FIV) then they have to be kept in all the time. It's fine as long as the cat has plenty to do inside and maybe a catio so they can enjoy the fresh air safely.
That reminds me of the time when my mom was puzzled as to why the cat food was disappearing so quickly. She finally found out that there were four extra furry feet coming through the cat door when it was dinner time. It was a river otter!
You see this kind of attitude all the time with rodents and lagomorphs (the rabbit family), people seeing them as "starter pets" for example when they actually have very complex needs. Many people get guinea pigs thinking they can be kept with rabbits or kept in a garage or kept in a cage that is far too small. It's not unreasonable to suggest that it would be better to not have a pet than to take care of them badly. Pets are living creatures with needs of their own and not just extra cute belongings.
I don’t have skin in this game as although I like cats I am allergic to them. But I’ve certainly seen cats who have clean litter trays, good food, and plenty of indoor play and stimulation who nonetheless nag to be let outside.
The bit you are missing here - is that I don’t agree it’s benign neglect, nor would most UK cat owners who let their cats outdoors.
Whether you realise it or not, what you are saying to me here is both patronising and offensive. It is patronising because you are speaking to me as if I don’t realise that pets are living creatures with needs of their own - our disagreement is essentially about how best to meet those needs. It is offensive because you are stating I don’t care about my pets’ welfare - which is not true.
*squeees at the notion of a friendly visiting otter *
St. Cuthbert would be proud!
Wow! That's lovely.
Our two visiting bengal cats aren't interested in the food - as that doesn't stay around long enough to be stolen - but in going upstairs to lie on the beds. The resident cat does not like this.
Triple squeeee