It’s a label and approach I find problematic for numerous reasons.
Yes. "Family" carries the connotation that only families are welcome, and single folk should worship elsewhere.
Personally, being single, I would avoid a "family" service anyway. I feel uncomfortable when it is clear that I am alone by myself in a family gathering.
It’s a label and approach I find problematic for numerous reasons.
Yes. "Family" carries the connotation that only families are welcome, and single folk should worship elsewhere.
Personally, being single, I would avoid a "family" service anyway. I feel uncomfortable when it is clear that I am alone by myself in a family gathering.
Yes, these are among my problems with it; that, and that “family” in these contexts often means a specific sort of family.
I’m also of the camp that thinks that, as a general rule, all services should be appropriate and engaging for everyone, of all ages and sorts.
For me "Family" means child-friendly and less formal with more modern hymns etc. It describes a style of worship rather more than the expected congregation.
Its worth noting that there is a traditional choral set-up that sings Choral Evensong six days a week and Solemn Mass on three Sundays a month. https://www.tewkesburyabbey.org.uk/music/
Right – it’s time for me to add my twopenny-worth!
1. “Family services” are not (or should not be) “children’s services” or glorified school assemblies. They should include content which is appropriate for both adults and children – which isn’t easy to achieve.
2. Knowing the connotations of the word “family”, churches need to underline the fact that these services are intended for everyone, indeed the whole “church family” of old and young, single and partnered, with and without children etc. We prefer to use the term “all-age service” but even this isn’t ideal.
3. It must be recognised that parents with young children may struggle with some formal expressions of church, both because what’s happening may be less intelligible to children (although it’s amazing what they can pick up!) and because parents are frightened that their wriggling and chattering children may be felt to be disruptive. They may well be more relaxed in an expressly child-friendly service
4. Conversely older and single Christians also need to realise that church isn’t just about them and ought to be willing to attend occasional services that may not follow their favoured pattern. Who knows? They might even enjoy them and make links with people they don’t know!
I worship at Chichester Cathedral and we have a Family and Caregivers Eucharist every Sunday. It is our largest growing congregation at the Cathedral with between 80 and 120 each week. We use a simplified liturgy but with all the elements, we also sing the same congregational settings each week and one traditonal hymn and one song which you'd possibly encounter in a school assembly. There is a short homily or teaching section.
The Cathedral clergy take it in turns to preside ably assisted by two fabulous authorised lay ministers.
Everyone is welcome but you need to be willing to include loud babies and little children. One of the most special things is the children being included in serving and always being invited up to gather round the altar for the consecration.
We get a few regular attenders who are adults without children but it's mainly families
And it's wonderful!
We don't label Masses at all. However the 11.00 on Sunday has the children's Liturgy of the Word in a separate room. They return at the offertory and report back to the congregation. They then join their families and learn to "behave" for the rest of Mass. As we are RC we have virtually no traditional hymns and have guitars and piano rather than organ.
Those who want no music go to the 9.30. However the 11.00 has a high proportion of retired and single people. It's a real mix. And all the better for it.
I've seen "relaxed" used to describe certain theatre performances that have been adapted in ways to make them less anxiety inducing. "Chilled" seems to mean "we're going to do a normal performance but we're not going to get in a paddy if you need to move about or go out for a bit".
I worship at Chichester Cathedral and we have a Family and Caregivers Eucharist every Sunday. It is our largest growing congregation at the Cathedral with between 80 and 120 each week. We use a simplified liturgy but with all the elements, we also sing the same congregational settings each week and one traditonal hymn and one song which you'd possibly encounter in a school assembly. There is a short homily or teaching section.
The Cathedral clergy take it in turns to preside ably assisted by two fabulous authorised lay ministers.
Everyone is welcome but you need to be willing to include loud babies and little children. One of the most special things is the children being included in serving and always being invited up to gather round the altar for the consecration.
We get a few regular attenders who are adults without children but it's mainly families
And it's wonderful!
Sounds good, indeed, but I see from the Cathedral website that it's at the (to me) early hour of 915am.
In Our Town, that hour is the beginning of Sunday Sports (football etc., depending on the season) for a large proportion of families - some of whom might, indeed, come to church later in the day (although not in the morning!).
I think it was the late +Michael Perham, a noted and inspirational (IMHO) liturgist, who once suggested that, for parishes able to sustain two main Sunday morning services, a Eucharist such as you describe could be fitted in at 1115am or 1130am, after the 930am or 945am principal Eucharist. For those who could only manage one, he suggested a service very much along the lines of that being held weekly at Chichester, but on a monthly or occasional basis.
Times (perhaps literally) have changed since he wrote in c1980, but nomenclature is still a problem...
I have heard it said that services which are intended to attract families with children should take place at around 4pm. There may be some mileage in that but I'm not 100% convinced.
When ours were young we actively avoided the family services. On a "normal" Sunday, there was a children's address, a children's hymn, then the children went out to Sunday School prior to the sermon. Once a month there was a family service with the children in church for the whole service, child-friendly hymns throughout and a dumbed-down sermon.
Ours preferred the Sundays with Sunday school (crafts, games) to a whole hour in church., and we often skipped those services. At least one other family with children also skipped the family services.
We no longer have family services, but completely separate Messy Church one afternoon a month.
I have heard it said that services which are intended to attract families with children should take place at around 4pm. There may be some mileage in that but I'm not 100% convinced.
One of Our Place's neighbours has such a service at 4pm on Sundays, though I don't know how successful (the wrong word, but YSWIM) it is. It is AIUI a *cafe-style* service, with (I suppose) Tea and Cake at that hour.
A Reader who was licensed in this Diocese at the same time I was re-licensed (2008) had the remit to start and run an afternoon Family Service (for want of a better term) which would serve several adjoining parishes in Not Our Town. All the parishes were of similar churchmanship FWIW (open evangelical/MOTR), but, alas, the lady fell ill, and AFAIK the scheme wasn't proceeded with.
I worship at Chichester Cathedral and we have a Family and Caregivers Eucharist every Sunday. It is our largest growing congregation at the Cathedral with between 80 and 120 each week. We use a simplified liturgy but with all the elements, we also sing the same congregational settings each week and one traditonal hymn and one song which you'd possibly encounter in a school assembly. There is a short homily or teaching section.
The Cathedral clergy take it in turns to preside ably assisted by two fabulous authorised lay ministers.
Everyone is welcome but you need to be willing to include loud babies and little children. One of the most special things is the children being included in serving and always being invited up to gather round the altar for the consecration.
We get a few regular attenders who are adults without children but it's mainly families
And it's wonderful!
Sounds good, indeed, but I see from the Cathedral website that it's at the (to me) early hour of 915am.
In Our Town, that hour is the beginning of Sunday Sports (football etc., depending on the season) for a large proportion of families - some of whom might, indeed, come to church later in the day (although not in the morning!).
I think it was the late +Michael Perham, a noted and inspirational (IMHO) liturgist, who once suggested that, for parishes able to sustain two main Sunday morning services, a Eucharist such as you describe could be fitted in at 1115am or 1130am, after the 930am or 945am principal Eucharist. For those who could only manage one, he suggested a service very much along the lines of that being held weekly at Chichester, but on a monthly or occasional basis.
Times (perhaps literally) have changed since he wrote in c1980, but nomenclature is still a problem...
It had to be early in order not to interfere with any of the other existing services which would have not gone down well in some quarters 😬😆
The services are going to move to on the hour from September so 9.00, 10.00, 11.00 and evensong.
I have heard it said that services which are intended to attract families with children should take place at around 4pm. There may be some mileage in that but I'm not 100% convinced.
The time seems to work OK for our growing congregation but I do know Sunday mornings are very busy for lots of families though so who knows?!
Maybe it's just that Our Town worships the twin gods of Sport and Shopping on Sundays!
That said, many churches do find it hard to attract/keep young families, especially since the pandemic (though that's not entirely to blame). Having a transient, and, in general terms, quite deprived population (Our Place is well within the poorest 1000 parishes in England) doesn't help, either, with *going to church or mosque* a fairly low priority for most people.
Thank you @MrsBeaky - I guessed that perhaps the service had been timed to *fit in* with the others, and to avoid ruffled feathers...
Given that it's popular, and growing in numbers, your Cathedral is obviously doing something right!
It's interesting as compared to many parish churches it's a very formal service and we're also seeing a fair number of previously non church goers coming along too.
Really quite special.
Maybe it's just that Our Town worships the twin gods of Sport and Shopping on Sundays!
That said, many churches do find it hard to attract/keep young families, especially since the pandemic (though that's not entirely to blame). Having a transient, and, in general terms, quite deprived population (Our Place is well within the poorest 1000 parishes in England) doesn't help, either, with *going to church or mosque* a fairly low priority for most people.
Yes, I think probably demographics and the resultant culture has a large part to play in numbers attending religious services.
I also dare to believe that sometimes stuff happens (like the extraordinary growth of this Cathedral congregation from 20 to over 100 in three years) which is inexplicable and my only response can be Thanks be to God!
I don't wish to be a wet blanket - but one hopes that the growth at Chichester is of people new to the faith and/or the area, rather than abstraction from other local churches which don't have the Cathedral's resources. Clearly "something" is being done right though!
I have heard it said that services which are intended to attract families with children should take place at around 4pm. There may be some mileage in that but I'm not 100% convinced.
Surely that’s not something about which a general rule can’t be laid down, but rather depends on local context and local considerations. 4pm would probably deter families with children where I live.
Soapbox Alert/
Our church has one Sunday service, and that’s the way it’s been for at least 40 years. Part of that is congregation size, but part of it is a string sense that we want everyone at one service, together. We don’t want congregations within the congregation; we want to foster one community. We’re in the American South, and the concept of “church family” still has some currency here.
That is reflected in Presbyterian infant baptismal practices. We generally do not have god-parents, but the entire congregation does make promises with regard to the nurture of the child being baptized, and the support of their parents.
When this works well—and I’ll readily admit it doesn’t always, but good pastoral leadership helps—it means that when a child is having a hard time sitting still or being quiet or whatever, “why don’t the parents do something?” isn’t considered the appropriate question. The question should be “what can I do to help that child feel at home and support that parent? How can I/we make sure that parent knows we’re glad they and their child are here?”
Our services are designed to be child friendly, but without being child-centered. We do have a nursery, and we do have Godly Play for children during part of the service. And we have supplies like coloring books and fidget toys that kids can have in the pews with them.
Our services are also designed to be visitor-friendly. We’re working on disability-friendly, as well as friendly to other needs people may have. Basically we have as the basic assumption that everyone feeling welcome and included is much more important than everything bring just so. Our approach is that worship is never about me-and-God, it’s about us-and-God. It is always a community gathering and is always community-forming; it is impoverished if part of the community is missing.
I don't wish to be a wet blanket - but one hopes that the growth at Chichester is of people new to the faith and/or the area, rather than abstraction from other local churches which don't have the Cathedral's resources. Clearly "something" is being done right though!
Some of the families have come from non church going backgrounds and quite a few moved into the area from places like London and chose the Cathedral. But there may be others such as you mention.
I think Cathedrals are very different from local churches which could be a part of it.
As one of the majority retired people of the congregation it is lovely to have young ones with us but I fear I might caused annoyance by being too enthusiastic about it here for which I apologise.
I think Cathedrals are very different from local churches which could be a part of it.
As one of the majority retired people of the congregation it is lovely to have young ones with us but I fear I might caused annoyance by being too enthusiastic about it here for which I apologise.
There really is nothing at all for which to apologise! It's encouraging to hear of a service which is obviously meeting a need, and one can only hope and pray that it continues to do so.
As regards resources, most churches (I suppose) could offer a simple Eucharist, with lay/children (if any) involvement and not too much in the way of music or ritual, on at least one Sunday a month, even if the other Sundays are given over to a Solemn High Mass with all the bells, whistles, trimmings, and birettas...
IOW, it's what +Michael Perham was suggesting over 40 years ago.
I think Cathedrals are very different from local churches which could be a part of it.
As one of the majority retired people of the congregation it is lovely to have young ones with us but I fear I might caused annoyance by being too enthusiastic about it here for which I apologise.
There really is nothing at all for which to apologise!
Our church has one Sunday service, and that’s the way it’s been for at least 40 years. Part of that is congregation size, but part of it is a string sense that we want everyone at one service, together ...
Our services are designed to be child friendly, but without being child-centered ...
Basically we have as the basic assumption that everyone feeling welcome and included is much more important than everything bring just so. Our approach is that worship is never about me-and-God, it’s about us-and-God. It is always a community gathering and is always community-forming; it is impoverished if part of the community is missing.
Keep right on your soapbox - that all sounds wonderful!
As regards resources, most churches (I suppose) could offer a simple Eucharist, with lay/children (if any) involvement and not too much in the way of music or ritual, on at least one Sunday a month, even if the other Sundays are given over to a Solemn High Mass with all the bells, whistles, trimmings, and birettas...
IOW, it's what +Michael Perham was suggesting over 40 years ago.
I wouldn't die at the stake for Solemn High Mass, even less for lace and birettas, but I've tried a similar approach and soon abandoned it. Unless your young families are very different from others I've come across, few people mark in their calendars the first (or whatever) Sunday in the month as their date with church, let alone attend 'religiously' on those dates. In many congregations these days, regular weekly worshippers are in the minority, and the rest will attend more or less frequently whenever their other commitments allow. That will rarely be on a regular pattern.
What happened when we tried this was that the usual congregation who appreciated the usual style of liturgy felt short-changed, and the families we were trying to attract either didn't turn up then, or turned up randomly whatever the form of service was being offered. We soon evolved a default style for all Sundays which was relaxed enough to allow newcomers and children to feel comfortable, while formal and structured enough to honour the liturgical tradition and those who valued it.
Churches with the resources, such as cathedrals, can offer two main services every week of different styles and that's fine. But to my mind, disrupting continuity is not helpful.
As regards resources, most churches (I suppose) could offer a simple Eucharist, with lay/children (if any) involvement and not too much in the way of music or ritual, on at least one Sunday a month, even if the other Sundays are given over to a Solemn High Mass with all the bells, whistles, trimmings, and birettas...
IOW, it's what +Michael Perham was suggesting over 40 years ago.
I wouldn't die at the stake for Solemn High Mass, even less for lace and birettas, but I've tried a similar approach and soon abandoned it. Unless your young families are very different from others I've come across, few people mark in their calendars the first (or whatever) Sunday in the month as their date with church, let alone attend 'religiously' on those dates. In many congregations these days, regular weekly worshippers are in the minority, and the rest will attend more or less frequently whenever their other commitments allow. That will rarely be on a regular pattern.
What happened when we tried this was that the usual congregation who appreciated the usual style of liturgy felt short-changed, and the families we were trying to attract either didn't turn up then, or turned up randomly whatever the form of service was being offered. We soon evolved a default style for all Sundays which was relaxed enough to allow newcomers and children to feel comfortable, while formal and structured enough to honour the liturgical tradition and those who valued it.
Churches with the resources, such as cathedrals, can offer two main services every week of different styles and that's fine. But to my mind, disrupting continuity is not helpful.
Yes, I hear what you say. It's certainly true at Our Place, where the faithful turn up as and when they can, and I think we should aim for the default style you mention, even though children are now largely absent.
The current *style* is far too wordy and complex IMHO, and dominated by the priest-in-charge (5 or 6 homilies in one Mass is a bit much...).
Yes, Cathedrals do have the capacity to offer as in our case five services on a Sunday, thanks to the commitment the clergy, vergers and laity who all play their part.
Our main Sunday Eucharist with all its glorious music takes more than hour whereas our simplified Eucharist for families and Caregivers is less than hour which I think makes it achievable for a lot of the people who attend, especially the families for whom church going is a new thing.
What I find interesting and don't have an explanation for is the handful of adults without children who regularly attend that service.
We do make it clear that everyone is welcome at every service so who knows?
I suspect that the adults without children who attend the service do so simply because it is short and to the point. That's not to denigrate the main Eucharist in any way, but I (for one) prefer something shorter these days, and couldn't manage comfortably with more than an hour...
I suspect that the adults without children who attend the service do so simply because it is short and to the point. That's not to denigrate the main Eucharist in any way, but I (for one) prefer something shorter these days, and couldn't manage comfortably with more than an hour...
It could also be at a more convenient time for that person's particular schedule. When they like to rise and dress in the morning, when they like to eat, when the bus runs, and so on...
It could be that it's more disability-friendly (including invisible disabilities). That's the most likely reason I would attend such a service. And I think it extremely likely that your people attending have a perfectly sensible reason for attending like that.
I mention this last possibility with extreme reluctance and only because it actually happened in our congregation--sometimes people who are seeking improper contact with vulnerable populations will attend worship aimed at those groups, and then begin cozying up to their, um, targets. Yes, we had this happen, though thank God, the issue surfaced and was dealt with before any harm could be done. What happened was that a local man with a forty-year-history of abusing children managed to fool a new Vietnamese immigrant mother of toddlers into trusting him around her children, and the story made major headlines locally for a week. The next week we had THREE older white men show up in Vietnamese language worship without a single shred of explanation or connection, however far-fetched (such as a Vietnamese wife, time spent in Vietnam, etc.) and one of them kept attending for weeks. I had seen the story also; I wondered about the man; and we ran a background check. I'm very grateful we did.
And now I feel horrible for even mentioning the suspicion.... But if you're in leadership of any sort, you have to watch out for the vulnerable.
There are indeed many reasons why an adult without children might attend the sort of service @MrsBeaky describes. Some, alas, may not be honourable...which is why safeguarding is so important.
As regards resources, most churches (I suppose) could offer a simple Eucharist, with lay/children (if any) involvement and not too much in the way of music or ritual, on at least one Sunday a month, even if the other Sundays are given over to a Solemn High Mass with all the bells, whistles, trimmings, and birettas...
*waves from rural 5 church benefice*
I suspect the rural church is still probably ‘most churches’ in England…
Each church here gets one Eucharist per month!
In the voice of the knight at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade I can see imposing a ‘simple Eucharist’ (even by rotation) going down ‘poorly’
The rural CofE being what it is, with people not actually mostly travelling within their own benefice, we get three services a month, and a dozen communions a year in our village.
There are indeed many reasons why an adult without children might attend the sort of service @MrsBeaky describes. Some, alas, may not be honourable...which is why safeguarding is so important.
Yes safeguarding is essential and we take it very seriously.
And I think the hidden disability stuff is very valid too.
Also, to clarify the "handful" of adults I mentioned are not always all attending at the same time and are sometimes visitors.
There are indeed many reasons why an adult without children might attend the sort of service @MrsBeaky describes. Some, alas, may not be honourable...which is why safeguarding is so important.
Yes safeguarding is essential and we take it very seriously.
And I think the hidden disability stuff is very valid too.
Also, to clarify the "handful" of adults I mentioned are not always all attending at the same time and are sometimes visitors.
Thank you - the hidden disability reason didn't occur to me.
As regards resources, most churches (I suppose) could offer a simple Eucharist, with lay/children (if any) involvement and not too much in the way of music or ritual, on at least one Sunday a month, even if the other Sundays are given over to a Solemn High Mass with all the bells, whistles, trimmings, and birettas...
*waves from rural 5 church benefice*
I suspect the rural church is still probably ‘most churches’ in England…
Each church here gets one Eucharist per month!
In the voice of the knight at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade I can see imposing a ‘simple Eucharist’ (even by rotation) going down ‘poorly’
The rural CofE being what it is, with people not actually mostly travelling within their own benefice, we get three services a month, and a dozen communions a year in our village.
Yes - I'm afraid I fell into the trap of thinking only of urban/suburban parishes.
I suspect that the adults without children who attend the service do so simply because it is short and to the point. That's not to denigrate the main Eucharist in any way, but I (for one) prefer something shorter these days, and couldn't manage comfortably with more than an hour...
Not having children doesn't mean that people don't like them. We have plenty of older single people at our main Mass on Sundays which is the one that families come to. Many of our older single folks are widowed grandparents.
I suspect that the adults without children who attend the service do so simply because it is short and to the point. That's not to denigrate the main Eucharist in any way, but I (for one) prefer something shorter these days, and couldn't manage comfortably with more than an hour...
Not having children doesn't mean that people don't like them. We have plenty of older single people at our main Mass on Sundays which is the one that families come to. Many of our older single folks are widowed grandparents.
Indeed not - my point was that some people might prefer a simpler and shorter service. As an old singleton myself, it would suit me nicely.
Our place ( one of five rural churches in the group) has a monthly family-orientated service called Pancakes and Praise. ( It is preceded by refreshments based around Scotch pancakes, not the proper ones). The music is accompanied by piano or a recorded track/ video. It is informal, inclusive and well-thought out. But only one family with children attends. The rest are couples and singles. Some of our regulars stay away, feeling infantilised or undernourished.
How long should TPTB persist in putting on this service when it has plainly failed to attract new families, and deprives some regular worshippers of the liturgy and musical style they crave?
Comments
It’s a label and approach I find problematic for numerous reasons. Not they they asked my opinion.
Yes. "Family" carries the connotation that only families are welcome, and single folk should worship elsewhere.
Personally, being single, I would avoid a "family" service anyway. I feel uncomfortable when it is clear that I am alone by myself in a family gathering.
I’m also of the camp that thinks that, as a general rule, all services should be appropriate and engaging for everyone, of all ages and sorts.
Its worth noting that there is a traditional choral set-up that sings Choral Evensong six days a week and Solemn Mass on three Sundays a month.
https://www.tewkesburyabbey.org.uk/music/
1. “Family services” are not (or should not be) “children’s services” or glorified school assemblies. They should include content which is appropriate for both adults and children – which isn’t easy to achieve.
2. Knowing the connotations of the word “family”, churches need to underline the fact that these services are intended for everyone, indeed the whole “church family” of old and young, single and partnered, with and without children etc. We prefer to use the term “all-age service” but even this isn’t ideal.
3. It must be recognised that parents with young children may struggle with some formal expressions of church, both because what’s happening may be less intelligible to children (although it’s amazing what they can pick up!) and because parents are frightened that their wriggling and chattering children may be felt to be disruptive. They may well be more relaxed in an expressly child-friendly service
4. Conversely older and single Christians also need to realise that church isn’t just about them and ought to be willing to attend occasional services that may not follow their favoured pattern. Who knows? They might even enjoy them and make links with people they don’t know!
The Cathedral clergy take it in turns to preside ably assisted by two fabulous authorised lay ministers.
Everyone is welcome but you need to be willing to include loud babies and little children. One of the most special things is the children being included in serving and always being invited up to gather round the altar for the consecration.
We get a few regular attenders who are adults without children but it's mainly families
And it's wonderful!
Those who want no music go to the 9.30. However the 11.00 has a high proportion of retired and single people. It's a real mix. And all the better for it.
Sounds good, indeed, but I see from the Cathedral website that it's at the (to me) early hour of 915am.
In Our Town, that hour is the beginning of Sunday Sports (football etc., depending on the season) for a large proportion of families - some of whom might, indeed, come to church later in the day (although not in the morning!).
I think it was the late +Michael Perham, a noted and inspirational (IMHO) liturgist, who once suggested that, for parishes able to sustain two main Sunday morning services, a Eucharist such as you describe could be fitted in at 1115am or 1130am, after the 930am or 945am principal Eucharist. For those who could only manage one, he suggested a service very much along the lines of that being held weekly at Chichester, but on a monthly or occasional basis.
Times (perhaps literally) have changed since he wrote in c1980, but nomenclature is still a problem...
Ours preferred the Sundays with Sunday school (crafts, games) to a whole hour in church., and we often skipped those services. At least one other family with children also skipped the family services.
We no longer have family services, but completely separate Messy Church one afternoon a month.
One of Our Place's neighbours has such a service at 4pm on Sundays, though I don't know how successful (the wrong word, but YSWIM) it is. It is AIUI a *cafe-style* service, with (I suppose) Tea and Cake at that hour.
A Reader who was licensed in this Diocese at the same time I was re-licensed (2008) had the remit to start and run an afternoon Family Service (for want of a better term) which would serve several adjoining parishes in Not Our Town. All the parishes were of similar churchmanship FWIW (open evangelical/MOTR), but, alas, the lady fell ill, and AFAIK the scheme wasn't proceeded with.
It had to be early in order not to interfere with any of the other existing services which would have not gone down well in some quarters 😬😆
The services are going to move to on the hour from September so 9.00, 10.00, 11.00 and evensong.
Given that it's popular, and growing in numbers, your Cathedral is obviously doing something right!
The time seems to work OK for our growing congregation but I do know Sunday mornings are very busy for lots of families though so who knows?!
That said, many churches do find it hard to attract/keep young families, especially since the pandemic (though that's not entirely to blame). Having a transient, and, in general terms, quite deprived population (Our Place is well within the poorest 1000 parishes in England) doesn't help, either, with *going to church or mosque* a fairly low priority for most people.
It's interesting as compared to many parish churches it's a very formal service and we're also seeing a fair number of previously non church goers coming along too.
Really quite special.
Yes, I think probably demographics and the resultant culture has a large part to play in numbers attending religious services.
I also dare to believe that sometimes stuff happens (like the extraordinary growth of this Cathedral congregation from 20 to over 100 in three years) which is inexplicable and my only response can be Thanks be to God!
I'd like it to happen at Our Place, but alas! there seems no enthusiasm for Doing Stuff Even A Little Bit Differently.
Horses for courses - churches have to take into account the culture and demographics, and the resources available (or not!).
Soapbox Alert/
Our church has one Sunday service, and that’s the way it’s been for at least 40 years. Part of that is congregation size, but part of it is a string sense that we want everyone at one service, together. We don’t want congregations within the congregation; we want to foster one community. We’re in the American South, and the concept of “church family” still has some currency here.
That is reflected in Presbyterian infant baptismal practices. We generally do not have god-parents, but the entire congregation does make promises with regard to the nurture of the child being baptized, and the support of their parents.
When this works well—and I’ll readily admit it doesn’t always, but good pastoral leadership helps—it means that when a child is having a hard time sitting still or being quiet or whatever, “why don’t the parents do something?” isn’t considered the appropriate question. The question should be “what can I do to help that child feel at home and support that parent? How can I/we make sure that parent knows we’re glad they and their child are here?”
Our services are designed to be child friendly, but without being child-centered. We do have a nursery, and we do have Godly Play for children during part of the service. And we have supplies like coloring books and fidget toys that kids can have in the pews with them.
Our services are also designed to be visitor-friendly. We’re working on disability-friendly, as well as friendly to other needs people may have. Basically we have as the basic assumption that everyone feeling welcome and included is much more important than everything bring just so. Our approach is that worship is never about me-and-God, it’s about us-and-God. It is always a community gathering and is always community-forming; it is impoverished if part of the community is missing.
I’ll step down from my soapbox now.
Some of the families have come from non church going backgrounds and quite a few moved into the area from places like London and chose the Cathedral. But there may be others such as you mention.
As one of the majority retired people of the congregation it is lovely to have young ones with us but I fear I might caused annoyance by being too enthusiastic about it here for which I apologise.
There really is nothing at all for which to apologise! It's encouraging to hear of a service which is obviously meeting a need, and one can only hope and pray that it continues to do so.
As regards resources, most churches (I suppose) could offer a simple Eucharist, with lay/children (if any) involvement and not too much in the way of music or ritual, on at least one Sunday a month, even if the other Sundays are given over to a Solemn High Mass with all the bells, whistles, trimmings, and birettas...
IOW, it's what +Michael Perham was suggesting over 40 years ago.
I wouldn't die at the stake for Solemn High Mass, even less for lace and birettas, but I've tried a similar approach and soon abandoned it. Unless your young families are very different from others I've come across, few people mark in their calendars the first (or whatever) Sunday in the month as their date with church, let alone attend 'religiously' on those dates. In many congregations these days, regular weekly worshippers are in the minority, and the rest will attend more or less frequently whenever their other commitments allow. That will rarely be on a regular pattern.
What happened when we tried this was that the usual congregation who appreciated the usual style of liturgy felt short-changed, and the families we were trying to attract either didn't turn up then, or turned up randomly whatever the form of service was being offered. We soon evolved a default style for all Sundays which was relaxed enough to allow newcomers and children to feel comfortable, while formal and structured enough to honour the liturgical tradition and those who valued it.
Churches with the resources, such as cathedrals, can offer two main services every week of different styles and that's fine. But to my mind, disrupting continuity is not helpful.
Yes, I hear what you say. It's certainly true at Our Place, where the faithful turn up as and when they can, and I think we should aim for the default style you mention, even though children are now largely absent.
The current *style* is far too wordy and complex IMHO, and dominated by the priest-in-charge (5 or 6 homilies in one Mass is a bit much...).
Our main Sunday Eucharist with all its glorious music takes more than hour whereas our simplified Eucharist for families and Caregivers is less than hour which I think makes it achievable for a lot of the people who attend, especially the families for whom church going is a new thing.
What I find interesting and don't have an explanation for is the handful of adults without children who regularly attend that service.
We do make it clear that everyone is welcome at every service so who knows?
It could also be at a more convenient time for that person's particular schedule. When they like to rise and dress in the morning, when they like to eat, when the bus runs, and so on...
I mention this last possibility with extreme reluctance and only because it actually happened in our congregation--sometimes people who are seeking improper contact with vulnerable populations will attend worship aimed at those groups, and then begin cozying up to their, um, targets. Yes, we had this happen, though thank God, the issue surfaced and was dealt with before any harm could be done. What happened was that a local man with a forty-year-history of abusing children managed to fool a new Vietnamese immigrant mother of toddlers into trusting him around her children, and the story made major headlines locally for a week. The next week we had THREE older white men show up in Vietnamese language worship without a single shred of explanation or connection, however far-fetched (such as a Vietnamese wife, time spent in Vietnam, etc.) and one of them kept attending for weeks. I had seen the story also; I wondered about the man; and we ran a background check. I'm very grateful we did.
And now I feel horrible for even mentioning the suspicion.... But if you're in leadership of any sort, you have to watch out for the vulnerable.
*waves from rural 5 church benefice*
I suspect the rural church is still probably ‘most churches’ in England…
Each church here gets one Eucharist per month!
In the voice of the knight at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade I can see imposing a ‘simple Eucharist’ (even by rotation) going down ‘poorly’
The rural CofE being what it is, with people not actually mostly travelling within their own benefice, we get three services a month, and a dozen communions a year in our village.
Yes safeguarding is essential and we take it very seriously.
And I think the hidden disability stuff is very valid too.
Also, to clarify the "handful" of adults I mentioned are not always all attending at the same time and are sometimes visitors.
Thank you - the hidden disability reason didn't occur to me.
Yes - I'm afraid I fell into the trap of thinking only of urban/suburban parishes.
Not having children doesn't mean that people don't like them. We have plenty of older single people at our main Mass on Sundays which is the one that families come to. Many of our older single folks are widowed grandparents.
Indeed not - my point was that some people might prefer a simpler and shorter service. As an old singleton myself, it would suit me nicely.
How long should TPTB persist in putting on this service when it has plainly failed to attract new families, and deprives some regular worshippers of the liturgy and musical style they crave?