One of the most annoying things about Trump (and I do mean annoying as opposed to enraging) is that he does have moments of genuinely being funny (particularly on Twitter before 2016) - plenty of people on the left have commented on this, that he would have made an amazing drag queen or pop culture commentator but chose to use his skills for evil instead. He's a New York showbiz guy whose favourite movie is Sunset Boulevard, he's supposed to be roasting people on Drag Race not having access to nuclear codes.
Camille Paglia(culturally liberal in an "everyone has their role to play" sorta way) was still writing on politics when Trump was getting his first primary-campaign going. She defended his joke about John McCain, ie. "I prefer war heroes who didn't get shot down", as being "something Lenny Bruce would have said".
(Granted, Paglia absolutely despised McCain, and admitted that Trump was not actually suitable for high office.)
I mean given Paglia's politics I wouldn't uphold her as an example of liberalism.
I have no wish to censor South Park (and it sounds like the episode was pretty standard for the show) but body shaming Trump is incredibly harmful to others. I know all the jokes about Trump's small hands have made me self-conscious about my own small hands. It also perpetuates the idea that outer ugliness reflects inner evil, which has historically been both untrue and also a really bad thing for multiple minority groups.
Having a small penis isn't a character flaw. Trump may think that it is, but he's wrong. Is it really a good idea to suggest that he's right to suggest that it is?
One of the most annoying things about Trump (and I do mean annoying as opposed to enraging) is that he does have moments of genuinely being funny (particularly on Twitter before 2016) - plenty of people on the left have commented on this, that he would have made an amazing drag queen or pop culture commentator but chose to use his skills for evil instead. He's a New York showbiz guy whose favourite movie is Sunset Boulevard, he's supposed to be roasting people on Drag Race not having access to nuclear codes.
Camille Paglia(culturally liberal in an "everyone has their role to play" sorta way) was still writing on politics when Trump was getting his first primary-campaign going. She defended his joke about John McCain, ie. "I prefer war heroes who didn't get shot down", as being "something Lenny Bruce would have said".
(Granted, Paglia absolutely despised McCain, and admitted that Trump was not actually suitable for high office.)
I mean given Paglia's politics I wouldn't uphold her as an example of liberalism.
I know. That's what I was trying to convey. She embraced and celebrated marginalized sexual cultures in her writing, but on the caveat that they remain marginalized for the sake of social cohesion. Her defense of Allen Ginsberg's NAMBLA membership(google that with caution) being probably the best example of this position.
In terms of electoral politics, since her endorsement of Ralph Nader in 2000, I believe she's gone back and forth between the Greens and the Democrats, and endorsed Sanders in various Democratic primaries. Her political writings had a tendency to analyze politicians via their sexual images, which seemed to account at least partly for her hostility to McCain.
I have no wish to censor South Park (and it sounds like the episode was pretty standard for the show) but body shaming Trump is incredibly harmful to others. I know all the jokes about Trump's small hands have made me self-conscious about my own small hands. It also perpetuates the idea that outer ugliness reflects inner evil, which has historically been both untrue and also a really bad thing for multiple minority groups.
Having a small penis isn't a character flaw. Trump may think that it is, but he's wrong. Is it really a good idea to suggest that he's right to suggest that it is?
The show is the show. Not my style, but it goes out to be offensive. I don’t think anyone takes them seriously enough to be very offended. As I understand it the problem Trump has is that it shows him in bed with the devil and all that implies.
I have no wish to censor South Park (and it sounds like the episode was pretty standard for the show) but body shaming Trump is incredibly harmful to others. I know all the jokes about Trump's small hands have made me self-conscious about my own small hands. It also perpetuates the idea that outer ugliness reflects inner evil, which has historically been both untrue and also a really bad thing for multiple minority groups.
Having a small penis isn't a character flaw. Trump may think that it is, but he's wrong. Is it really a good idea to suggest that he's right to suggest that it is?
I kinda thought the same thing when one of Trump's turncoat cronies told the media that he smells bad, and then some anti-Trump groups started incorporating that into their ads, as if anyone deliberately tries to smell bad.
OTOH, with penis size, the message of the joke might not be so much "Trump has a small penis, and that makes him a bad person", but "Trump thinks that having a big penis makes you a great man[see his comments on Arnold Palmer], but doesn't even live up to that himself." The latter of which does not neccessarily endorse the view that penis size = character.
But, of course, people could laugh at the joke for both reasons.
I can't think why a person with money and resources would smell bad?
A good dentist to sort out the mouth and good hygiene/pee pants/changes of clothes for the rest.
Horrible aftershave?
So, just to clarify, you're saying that if someone has money and resources, we can assume that any unpleasant odour he may emit is a result of his own choices?
In describing the turncoat who made the comments about Trump's smell as one of his "cronies", I was remembering that it was either Roger Stone or Michael Cohen, both of whom I would assume to be the types to mock someone's smell even if the person had no control over it(*).
But it turns out it was Adam Kinzinger, a GOP representative whose career in congress predates Trump's golden-elevator ride by a few years. Not sure if he's the type whose mockery of someone's smell would contain the implied caveat "Of course, I'm only saying this because he's rich and could clearly avoid smelling bad if he wanted to." Generally, though, I am not inclined to give Republicans the benefit of the doubt in this regard.
That article is about what Trump's staffers allegedly said in early 2025. But as I said in my self-correction, the guy who went on record was Kinzinger, who was not a staffer. The Independent has an article up from 2023...
Ex-GOP lawmaker doubles down on claim that Trump smells 'of armpits, ketchup and butt
I have no wish to censor South Park (and it sounds like the episode was pretty standard for the show) but body shaming Trump is incredibly harmful to others. I know all the jokes about Trump's small hands have made me self-conscious about my own small hands. It also perpetuates the idea that outer ugliness reflects inner evil, which has historically been both untrue and also a really bad thing for multiple minority groups.
Having a small penis isn't a character flaw. Trump may think that it is, but he's wrong. Is it really a good idea to suggest that he's right to suggest that it is?
The show is the show. Not my style, but it goes out to be offensive. I don’t think anyone takes them seriously enough to be very offended. As I understand it the problem Trump has is that it shows him in bed with the devil and all that implies.
People have been talking about Trump having a small penis for a LONG time, this isn't a joke that South Park has introduced.
I have no wish to censor South Park (and it sounds like the episode was pretty standard for the show) but body shaming Trump is incredibly harmful to others. I know all the jokes about Trump's small hands have made me self-conscious about my own small hands. It also perpetuates the idea that outer ugliness reflects inner evil, which has historically been both untrue and also a really bad thing for multiple minority groups.
Having a small penis isn't a character flaw. Trump may think that it is, but he's wrong. Is it really a good idea to suggest that he's right to suggest that it is?
I kinda thought the same thing when one of Trump's turncoat cronies told the media that he smells bad, and then some anti-Trump groups started incorporating that into their ads, as if anyone deliberately tries to smell bad.
OTOH, with penis size, the message of the joke might not be so much "Trump has a small penis, and that makes him a bad person", but "Trump thinks that having a big penis makes you a great man[see his comments on Arnold Palmer], but doesn't even live up to that himself." The latter of which does not neccessarily endorse the view that penis size = character.
But, of course, people could laugh at the joke for both reasons.
There have definitely been jokes laughing at Trump being fat/having a small penis/wearing adult diapers, with no consideration for the non-Trump people affected by those things.
Usually I'd agree that body shaming is a bad idea, but given that South Park one way or another sooner or later takes aim at everyone, I'm fine with it in this instance.
George Clooney who has no love lost with Trump calling George a "Hollywood Elite" reportedly gave an excellent response:
"Here’s the thing: I grew up in Kentucky. I sold insurance door-to-door. I sold ladies’ shoes. I worked at an all-night liquor store. I would buy suits that were too big and too long and cut the bottom of the pants off to make ties so I’d have a tie to go on job interviews. I grew up understanding what it was like to not have health insurance for eight years.
So this idea that I’m somehow the “Hollywood elite” and this guy who takes a shit in a gold toilet is somehow the man of the people is laughable.
People in Hollywood, for the most part, are people from the Midwest who moved to Hollywood to have a career. So this idea of “coastal elites” living in a bubble is ridiculous. Who lives in a bigger bubble?
He lives in a gold tower and has twelve people in his company. He doesn’t run a corporation of hundreds of thousands of people he employs and takes care of. He ran a company of twelve people!
When you direct a film you have seven different unions all wanting different things, you have to find consensus with all of them, and you have to get them moving in the same direction.
He’s never had to do any of that kind of stuff. I just look at it and I laugh when I see him say “Hollywood elite.” Hollywood elite? I don’t have a star on Hollywood Boulevard, Donald Trump has a star on Hollywood Boulevard! Fuck you!"
Right. But I'd assume you agree that's offensive to people suffering from monorchism?
Provided they're not power-mad dictators currently waging war on your country.
But that particular joke doesn't simply insult Hitler, it by implication insults anyone with only one testicle.
Joseph Goebbels had only one functioning leg. But I hope you would not think it's okay to laugh at him for being "a cripple", and justify it by saying "Well, he's part of a power-mad regime waging war on my the world."
Right. But I'd assume you agree that's offensive to people suffering from monorchism?
Provided they're not power-mad dictators currently waging war on your country.
But it doesn't only affect those people if it uses monorchism as an insult. It insults anyone with monorchism.
Making fun of people for features/conditions they can't control doesn't make sense if you're making fun of a person due to their bad behaviour. Make fun of the behaviour.
Usually I'd agree that body shaming is a bad idea, but given that South Park one way or another sooner or later takes aim at everyone, I'm fine with it in this instance.
Is bigotry OK just because the people doing it have targeted a lot of people? My issue is that the people who would usually criticise South Park for its content now think it's good just because Trump is the target.
Right. But I'd assume you agree that's offensive to people suffering from monorchism?
Provided they're not power-mad dictators currently waging war on your country.
It's just a catchy song about four of our erstwhile enemies because they were our enemies. We never knew or cared how many testicles Hitler, Goering, Himmler and Goebbels had, and even if they hadn't been dead already, we surely couldn't have hurt them with it. Mockery will always be the weapon of choice of the powerless.
Usually I'd agree that body shaming is a bad idea, but given that South Park one way or another sooner or later takes aim at everyone, I'm fine with it in this instance.
Is bigotry OK just because the people doing it have targeted a lot of people? My issue is that the people who would usually criticise South Park for its content now think it's good just because Trump is the target.
I think there are two possible opinions, quite distinct from each other, Ruth could have been expressing...
1. "Body-shaming is always wrong, including against Trump, but since it's such a major part of Southpark's humour, I'm not gonna go out of my way in this particular instance to criticize it."
OR...
2. "Body-shaming is usually wrong, the exception being when it's against Trump or people like him, in which case I'm okay with it."
The first strikes me as pretty defensible, the second not so much.
South Park is a parody. It uses irony, humor, and satire to mock or criticize the subject. When I watched the episode, I was concerned when the two boys were breathing through a tube in the car. Next scene, the owners of said car say it is an electric car (note they did not mention the make or model) so the boys just sat in the car. I had wondered if South Park should have put a disclaimer at the end, saying if one was considering suicide they should call the suicide hotline--they could have even mocked the elimination of the LBGTQ section of the hot line.
Yes, it pushes the envelope, but that is what makes it funny.
I think it's long had a reactionary edge - in the way that professional contrarians and internet atheists can get.
It may or may not have been Andrew Sullivan in the mid-2000s who coined the phrase "South Park Republican" to describe a certain type of libertarian-oriented conservative who takes a raunchy, iconoclastic approach to political humour.
Usually I'd agree that body shaming is a bad idea, but given that South Park one way or another sooner or later takes aim at everyone, I'm fine with it in this instance.
Is bigotry OK just because the people doing it have targeted a lot of people? My issue is that the people who would usually criticise South Park for its content now think it's good just because Trump is the target.
Who exactly are these people? And why are you trying to get me to defend bigotry?
Comments
Trump: "My fellow ......"
Vance: "Americans"
Trump: "I KNOW!!!"
I mean given Paglia's politics I wouldn't uphold her as an example of liberalism.
Having a small penis isn't a character flaw. Trump may think that it is, but he's wrong. Is it really a good idea to suggest that he's right to suggest that it is?
I know. That's what I was trying to convey. She embraced and celebrated marginalized sexual cultures in her writing, but on the caveat that they remain marginalized for the sake of social cohesion. Her defense of Allen Ginsberg's NAMBLA membership(google that with caution) being probably the best example of this position.
In terms of electoral politics, since her endorsement of Ralph Nader in 2000, I believe she's gone back and forth between the Greens and the Democrats, and endorsed Sanders in various Democratic primaries. Her political writings had a tendency to analyze politicians via their sexual images, which seemed to account at least partly for her hostility to McCain.
The show is the show. Not my style, but it goes out to be offensive. I don’t think anyone takes them seriously enough to be very offended. As I understand it the problem Trump has is that it shows him in bed with the devil and all that implies.
I kinda thought the same thing when one of Trump's turncoat cronies told the media that he smells bad, and then some anti-Trump groups started incorporating that into their ads, as if anyone deliberately tries to smell bad.
OTOH, with penis size, the message of the joke might not be so much "Trump has a small penis, and that makes him a bad person", but "Trump thinks that having a big penis makes you a great man[see his comments on Arnold Palmer], but doesn't even live up to that himself." The latter of which does not neccessarily endorse the view that penis size = character.
But, of course, people could laugh at the joke for both reasons.
A good dentist to sort out the mouth and good hygiene/pee pants/changes of clothes for the rest.
Horrible aftershave?
So, just to clarify, you're saying that if someone has money and resources, we can assume that any unpleasant odour he may emit is a result of his own choices?
But it turns out it was Adam Kinzinger, a GOP representative whose career in congress predates Trump's golden-elevator ride by a few years. Not sure if he's the type whose mockery of someone's smell would contain the implied caveat "Of course, I'm only saying this because he's rich and could clearly avoid smelling bad if he wanted to." Generally, though, I am not inclined to give Republicans the benefit of the doubt in this regard.
That article is about what Trump's staffers allegedly said in early 2025. But as I said in my self-correction, the guy who went on record was Kinzinger, who was not a staffer. The Independent has an article up from 2023...
People have been talking about Trump having a small penis for a LONG time, this isn't a joke that South Park has introduced.
There have definitely been jokes laughing at Trump being fat/having a small penis/wearing adult diapers, with no consideration for the non-Trump people affected by those things.
I have no idea whether it affects Trump or not, but depression and executive dysfunction (for eg) happen to rich people too.
Mocking your enemy's genitalia goes back a bit.
Right. But I'd assume you agree that's offensive to people suffering from monorchism?
Verified by Snopes in 2020
Provided they're not power-mad dictators currently waging war on your country.
But that particular joke doesn't simply insult Hitler, it by implication insults anyone with only one testicle.
Joseph Goebbels had only one functioning leg. But I hope you would not think it's okay to laugh at him for being "a cripple", and justify it by saying "Well, he's part of a power-mad regime waging war on my the world."
But it doesn't only affect those people if it uses monorchism as an insult. It insults anyone with monorchism.
Making fun of people for features/conditions they can't control doesn't make sense if you're making fun of a person due to their bad behaviour. Make fun of the behaviour.
Is bigotry OK just because the people doing it have targeted a lot of people? My issue is that the people who would usually criticise South Park for its content now think it's good just because Trump is the target.
It's just a catchy song about four of our erstwhile enemies because they were our enemies. We never knew or cared how many testicles Hitler, Goering, Himmler and Goebbels had, and even if they hadn't been dead already, we surely couldn't have hurt them with it. Mockery will always be the weapon of choice of the powerless.
I think there are two possible opinions, quite distinct from each other, Ruth could have been expressing...
1. "Body-shaming is always wrong, including against Trump, but since it's such a major part of Southpark's humour, I'm not gonna go out of my way in this particular instance to criticize it."
OR...
2. "Body-shaming is usually wrong, the exception being when it's against Trump or people like him, in which case I'm okay with it."
The first strikes me as pretty defensible, the second not so much.
Yes, it pushes the envelope, but that is what makes it funny.
It may or may not have been Andrew Sullivan in the mid-2000s who coined the phrase "South Park Republican" to describe a certain type of libertarian-oriented conservative who takes a raunchy, iconoclastic approach to political humour.
Who exactly are these people? And why are you trying to get me to defend bigotry?
South Park is satire. Satire serves a purpose. When they used the n-word a bunch of times in one episode, the NAACP was on board. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Apologies_to_Jesse_Jackson