What did you sing at church today?

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  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Nenya wrote: »
    He didn't cry on that occasion. It doesn't mean he didn't cry at other times. Perhaps he liked the sound of the lowing cattle.

    :lol:

    Even though they woke him up...?

    Ah, yes... I do see what you mean...
  • As opposed to a dog collar.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Recorded music on any form is not officially allowed during services in RC churches. But it happens.
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Recorded music on any form is not officially allowed during services in RC churches.

    Why is that?
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Spike wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Recorded music on any form is not officially allowed during services in RC churches.

    Why is that?

    To quote Google's AI trawl ....
    Recorded music is generally discouraged or forbidden during the Catholic Mass because the liturgy emphasizes authentic, live participation by the assembly, with pre-recorded music lacking the "veracity" of human voices and instruments; however, exceptions exist, like using recordings to teach music, for processions, or carefully with children's Masses, but never as a substitute for live singing. Church documents state only live instruments played by a person are allowed, and recorded music substitutes true communal worship with a commercial, static product.

    I suspect behind it all is the much controverted idea that the only proper music for RC worship is unaccompanied plainsong. At our place, for example we have had recorded music after a wedding as the couple leave the church since the service has actually ended .... but if the priest thinks the song is totally inappropriate for church, the regulations are a handy way of saying "no." And for requiems he suggests that favourite secular songs are used at the crematorium.
    On a positive note it means that I have attended Mass where the instrumentalists have ranged from African drums, via a solo recorder and all the way to full orchestra and choir. And weekday services where simple congregational chants have been unaccompanied.
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited December 26
    Where the guidance/regulation seems to fall flat is in situations - particularly smaller churches - where people want to sing but no musicians are available. Granted, singing can be unaccompanied (as per "Wee Frees" in Scotland and Plymouth Brethren) but that can be very dreary!
  • Where the guidance/regulation seems to fall flat is in situations - particularly smaller churches - where people want to sing but no musicians are available. Granted, singing can be unaccompanied (as per "Wee Frees" in Scotland and Plymouth Brethren) but that can be very dreary!

    Yes, and a small congregation may not even have one person to act as a competent cantor.

  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited December 26
    Indeed so. I guess we've all been to occasions (eg carol singing) where the leader starts off in a wildly inappropriate key ...
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    So many of these rules are set by people who work in ideal settings. And I don't think they had vernacular hymns in mind at all.
  • Once upon a time, vernacular hymns were not part of the official liturgy, and AIUI that applied mainly to the Church of England. Did the same apply to RC churches, at least until comparatively recent times?

    As regards today, the Faithful gathered at Our Place to commemorate St Stephen were enjoined to sing Good King Wenceslas, which is sentimental quasi-romantic Tosh, and has nothing to do with the Incarnation, or the Martyrdom of Stephen. It will have been sung a capella, and I hope they made a good job of it, as it at least has a good tune.
  • And a good descant.
  • :lol:

    True, though I doubt if there were enough present to attempt it. FatherInCharge is enthusiastic, but I'm afraid he simply can't sing...

    Incidentally, the tune (Tempus Adest Floridum) appears in the collection Piae Cantiones of 1582, and is set in the Oxford Book of Carols to a Spring carol whose first line reads Now the spring has come again, joy and warmth will follow - a translation from the original 16thC Latin.

    There's a tremendous lot of interesting, and nowadays little-known, material in the Oxford Book of Carols.
  • Midnight service (late to the party this year- a busy Christmas):

    O come, O come Emmanuel (Veni Emmanuel)
    It came upon a Midnight Clear (Carol)
    O Holy Night (Cantique de Noel)
    While Shepherds Watched (Winchester Old)
    On Christmas night all Christians sing (Sussex Carol)
    O come all ye Faithful (Adeste Fidelis)
  • Holy Family Sunday at Our Place tomorrow, at which the faithful will be encouraged to do everything they can to strengthen Christian Family Life™:

    The holly and the ivy (English folk tune)
    Something from The Sheet (possibly the Gloria)
    Good King Wenceslas (Tempus Adest Floridum)
    Something from The Sheet (possibly the Lord's Prayer by St Cliff)
    In the bleak midwinter (Cranham)
    Joy to the world (Antioch)

    28th December is also Holy Innocents' Day, though that commemoration is set aside by the fact that this year it's on a Sunday. Nevertheless, it would seem appropriate IMHO to mention the present-day slaughter of the innocents, in Gaza, by a present-day tyrant just as afraid of losing control and power as the egregious Herod. I hope that this will be done during the intercessions, as an antidote to the dross being otherwise served up...

    They will be without an organist tomorrow, so will have to attempt the songs/hymns a capella. They do have a couple of competent cantors, happily.
  • Good King Wenceslas (Tempus Adest Floridum)
    What - again?

  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited December 27
    Nevertheless, it would seem appropriate IMHO to mention the present-day slaughter of the innocents, in Gaza, by a present-day tyrant just as afraid of losing control and power as the egregious Herod. I hope that this will be done during the intercessions, as an antidote to the dross being otherwise served up...
    Sadly, one doubts that it will be mentioned - too disturbing for the cosy Twixtmas spirit.

  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited December 27
    Good King Wenceslas (Tempus Adest Floridum)
    What - again?

    Yes, but there would have been only a couple of victims at yesterday's Mass. The drivel must be shared by as many as possible...
    Nevertheless, it would seem appropriate IMHO to mention the present-day slaughter of the innocents, in Gaza, by a present-day tyrant just as afraid of losing control and power as the egregious Herod. I hope that this will be done during the intercessions, as an antidote to the dross being otherwise served up...
    Sadly, one doubts that it will be mentioned - too disturbing for the cosy Twixtmas spirit.

    That was my thought, but, of course, I may be wrong - it depends on who is leading the intercessions. Quite often, there are no volunteers, so FatherInCharge does them himself.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Most of our intercessors mention Gaza (and Ukraine) in their prayers each week.

    I'll be honest - I'm not averse to a bit of Good King Winklehof (as David used to call it), especially if the context isn't too formal. At St Magnus Cathedral, before the 11:30 Christmas Eve service, there's a fairly informal half-hour of congregational carol singing, at which the choirmaster would stand in the pulpit and direct the congregation. GKW always featured, and David would get the ladies to sing the page's part and the gents to sing the King's part ...

    ... until he had a brainwave (or it may have been a brainfart) and divided the congregation into Uppies and Doonies, in homage to the Ba', which would be played through the streets of Kirkwall the following day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirkwall_Ba'_Game
  • What a good idea!

    Tomorrow:

    “God rest ye merry, gentlemen” - trad.
    “Meekness and majesty” (Kendrick).
    “What child is this?” - Greensleeves.
    "From the squalor of a borrowed stable” (Townend).
    “Thou didst leave thy throne” - Margaret.
  • Well, OK - I grant that GKW may have a place in an informal setting, but NOT in the context of a Mass celebrating the Incarnation, or the Martyrdom of St Stephen. It does have a jolly good tune, as I said.

    I hope my Spy remembers what the Somethings from the Sheet are - she has been known to simply blank them from her mind, given their usual awfulness.
  • Early morning service -

    Glorious Things Of Thee Are Spoken (Austria)
    I Am a New Creation (Dave Bilbrough)
    Hark! The Herald Angels Sing (Mendelssohn)
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    I'm pleased to report that we're still having decently festive fare:

    Angels from the realms of glory - Iris
    O thou who camest from above - Hereford
    Jesus, good above all other - Quem Pastores
    Infant holy, infant lowly - Wzlobie Lezy
    Unto us a boy is born - Puer Nobis :heart:
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Wev began with O little town of Bethlehem, and ended with Once in royal David's city.
    I struggle to think of two drearier hymns.
  • KarlLBKarlLB Shipmate
    edited December 28
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Wev began with O little town of Bethlehem, and ended with Once in royal David's city.
    I struggle to think of two drearier hymns.

    Try the hymn book. It's full of far worse dirges than those.
  • Joy to the world!
    Unto us a child is born
    In the bleak mid-winter (which it pretty well was, in the church)
    Hark! the herald-angels sing glory to the new-born king
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    KarlLB wrote: »
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Wev began with O little town of Bethlehem, and ended with Once in royal David's city.
    I struggle to think of two drearier hymns.

    Try the hymn book. It's full of far worse dirges than those.

    I'll pass on that!
  • ArethosemyfeetArethosemyfeet Shipmate, Heaven Host
    We had:
    When out of poverty is born (KINGSFOLD)
    The Lord of heaven confess (DARWALL'S 148TH)
    Unto us a boy is born
    It came upon the midnight clear (NÖEL)
    Be still my soul (FINLANDIA)
  • Those of you who sang Unto us a boy is born at least made mention of Holy Innocents - totally ignored at Our Place. It's not even being transferred to tomorrow (as it is at Our Cathedral), but the 10am service will commemorate St Thomas of Canterbury. The Mass intention is given on the notice sheet simply as 'Canterbury Cathedral' - no mention of the incoming Archbishop.
    :disappointed:

    The Somethings from The Sheet were (a) a metrical Gloria sung to the tune Bransle de L'Official (Ding dong, merrily on high!), and (b) the Lord's Prayer, as painfully forced into the tune of Auld Lang Syne by the egregious St Cliff Richard...if St C ever gets canonised (unlikely, I know), FatherInCharge will establish a Shrine...

    A good turnout, however, and they sang lustily despite the lack of organists. The three lady cantors sang The Virgin Mary had a baby boy (traditional West Indian tune) as a Communion motet, and my Spy says this was quite an enjoyable treat.
  • PuzzlerPuzzler Shipmate
    Group service of Holy Communion in the smallest of our churches - a full house.

    Of the Father’s heart begotten
    It came upon the midnight clear
    In the bleak midwinter
    Angels from the realms of glory
  • DardaDarda Shipmate
    No 9 o'clock communion this morning, just the one combined (non-communion) mid morning service. Pleased that after a busy lead up to Christmas, and the day itself, our rector's presence was not essential so he was able to enjoy some family time. We sang:
    Joy to the World - ANTIOCH
    See Him Lying on a Bed of Straw - CALYPSO CAROL
    In the Bleak Midwinter - CRANHAM
    Angels From the Realms of Glory - IRIS
    O Little Town of Bethlehem - FOREST GREEN
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Praise is rising
    Blessed be the name of the Lord
    Emmanuel, Jesus is the Lord, God is with us (a new one)
    You were the word at the beginning
    Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    Alan29 wrote: »
    Wev began with O little town of Bethlehem, and ended with Once in royal David's city.
    I struggle to think of two drearier hymns.

    I'm quite fond of both (assuming OLTOB was sung to Forest Green and not the awful St Louis).
    Those of you who sang Unto us a boy is born at least made mention of Holy Innocents ...

    That's how I got away with persuading TPTB that it was a good idea - "oh look, it's Holy Innocents, and there's a verse about Herod!" :innocent:

    One or two people commented afterwards in a positive way about the nice traditional hymns, and I heard several people singing the tune as we were having coffee, so it must have made a good impression. I can think of far worse earworms!

  • The customary tunes to OLTOB (Forest Green) and OIRDC (Irby) are excellent, as long as they're not dragged out IYSWIM. The words might be a bit iffy, especially OIRDC, which has several verses best omitted...

    Well done @Piglet for getting Your Place to sing Unto us a boy is born !
    :wink:
  • The customary tunes to OLTOB (Forest Green) . . . .
    Where I live, FOREST GREEN is not the customary tune for OLTOB. :wink:

    (And I’ll confess I prefer ST. LOUIS to FOREST GREEN, but as you say with FOREST GREEN and IRBY, taking it too slowly is the kiss of death.)


  • Customary in the UK, I should have said. Thanks again for correcting me.
    :grimace:
  • Customary in the UK, I should have said. Thanks again for correcting me.
    :grimace:

    And it is an American hymn.
  • Customary in the UK, I should have said. Thanks again for correcting me.
    :grimace:
    And it is an American hymn.
    And ST. LOUIS is the original tune.


  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited December 29
    Indeed so. My wife likes it. There is also Walford Davies; tune "Christmas Carol".
  • Maybe, but Forest Green is English...a traditional English melody, collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams. An impeccable pedigree...
  • Hmm, "The Ploughboy's Dream" ... but how much did RVW muck about with it, to fit it into regular musical notation?

    When Bartok and Kodaly collected Hungarian folk tunes, they devised their own notation to make sure they correctly recorded all their nuances.
  • Alan29Alan29 Shipmate
    Maybe it's not so much the tunes as th
    Maybe, but Forest Green is English...a traditional English melody, collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams. An impeccable pedigree...

    But then sanitised in Anglican SATB style with a different chord on each note, sucking all life out of it. I would love to hear it done in folk style with far fewer chords.
  • I think my New Year's Resolution will be to refrain from making any comments about hymn tunes.
    :unamused:
  • North East QuineNorth East Quine Purgatory Host
    Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:

    When out of poverty is born (KINGSFOLD)

    Us, too. I had a bit of a lump in my throat as I think it's the first time we've had one of Kathy Galloway's hymns since her death earlier this year.
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    edited December 29
    I think my New Year's Resolution will be to refrain from making any comments about hymn tunes.
    :unamused:

    Oh, please not! :mrgreen:
  • SpikeSpike Ecclesiantics & MW Host, Admin Emeritus
    Those of you who sang Unto us a boy is born at least made mention of Holy Innocents - totally ignored at Our Place. It's not even being transferred to tomorrow (as it is at Our Cathedral)

    I’m singing evensong with my choir at said cathedral this week. When we arrived, the Precentor (or whatever long winded title he goes by nowadays) asked our director whether the service was recognising the Holy Innocents or Thomas Becket.
  • NenyaNenya All Saints Host, Ecclesiantics & MW Host
    Piglet wrote: »
    I think my New Year's Resolution will be to refrain from making any comments about hymn tunes.
    :unamused:

    Oh, please not! :mrgreen:

    Seconded. Your contributions about hymn tunes (and everything else) are highly valued. :smile:
  • And thirded. BTW I looked up folk arrangements of "The Ploughboy's Dream" but they all seem to feature a very different tune!
  • Thinking of Puer Nobis Nascitur, there is the "other" version - a slightly earlier translation than Dearmer's - which begins, "Unto us is born a son, King of choirs supernal".
  • PigletPiglet All Saints Host, Circus Host
    That is, imho, the Correct Version - it's what's in Carols for Choirs, which in my mind is definitively Right. :)

    It also means you get:
    Thus did Herod sore affray
    And grievously bewilder
    So he gave the word to slay
    And slew the little childer.
    and
    O and A, and A and O
    Cum cantibus in choro
    Let our merry organ go,
    Benedicamus Domino
    preferably with Willcocks' wonderful descant. :heart:
  • Baptist TrainfanBaptist Trainfan Shipmate
    edited December 30
    I may be wrong (I can't find it), but I vaguely recall a version which omits all references to Herod and the Slaughter ...

    What I have found is this modern version. I actually quite like it (apart from the anger/danger misrhyme) but wonder if it was really necessary: https://www.praise.org.uk/hymns/jesus-christ-the-lord-is-born
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