Please see Styx thread on the Registered Shipmates consultation for the main discussion forums - your views are important, continues until April 4th.

Purgatory: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread.

1147148150152153168

Comments

  • The Michigan legislators have apparently refused to play ball with him, so he's either sulking or thinking up a new wheeze.
  • Furtive GanderFurtive Gander Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    He'll probably sign some (pointless) Executive Order to declare that Michigan is no longer part of the Union so its Electors don't count.
  • He'll probably sign some (pointless) Executive Order to declare that Michigan is no longer part of the Union so it's Electors don't count.

    According to those old tories at Fox News, the upper finger is actually part of Canada, so maybe the fix is in already.

    (You'll have to search that on your own.)
  • Ooh, that would be fun! I would dearly love to see him try to excommunicate (dissever? cause-to-be-seceded?) various bits of the United States. He can't, of course, but the hilarity of it would be something to watch.
  • Scene: Current President Donald "Bad Loser" Trump sits in the Oval office and uses intercom; "Rudi, come in here a minute will you, I've got a solution to this"
    After a brief delay Guiliani enters.
    G: Solution to what Mr President?
    D (BL) T: To how to get the right result from Michigan
    G: Well, sir?
    DT: See I just wrote and signed this Exec Order to eject Michigan from the Union. It might need a little work to get the legalese right but you can handle that ASAP and I'll sign it to make it official. Then I'll sign a dummy for the cameras to show it's real and I'm serious. How quick can it take effect?
    G: Err .. How will it work?
    DT: If I remove Michigan, their Electors can't vote against me. We turned that state last time after voting for you-know-who before me.
    G: You mean Ob..
    DT: DON'T say that name! They have some good ordinary people there but their vote counting messed up and makes it look like they support Sleepy Joe, which can't be right. We asked their officials to recount and do it right but they're dragging their feet to stop me winning 'cos they know what the people want, but they don't. So we're better off without a state with corrupt officials. I haven't worked the EC score yet but we won't need to get 270 and this will help. If we need more I'll eject some other failing state that voted wrong or bad counts gave the networks the wrong idea. It'd be good to get rid of California but maybe that would look suspicious and they pay a lot of taxes. What do you think? Where else? We need to turn this round quick!

    Also I've been thinking of a new title for my next term, "Mr President" is ok and felt good at first but it's starting to get old - I need something which carries more weight when referring to someone this important. I think having the word 'Supreme' in it would raise the level. I mean the judges I appoint have Supreme in their title and I want it in mine too. How about "Supreme Leader"? What do you say Rudi? Get Pence in here and I'll see if he has any ideas. Actually forget that, he just says "Yes Mr President!"
  • RockyRoger wrote: »
    re logging camp story: the version I heard was that the new chap said, "238", and all the other fellers fell about laughing. "that's great", commented an old-timer, "We haven't heard that one before".
    Perhaps Trump should start enumerating his lies, so he can stand up in front of his followers and just say, "42", and the sheeple chant, "Lock her up!", or better, perhaps, "64!"

    And the biggest joke of them all... 45!

    Well told.
  • OhherOhher Shipmate
    Apropos of the White House's Current Occupant, who has apparently dug in there against somebody changing the locks while he celebrate T-Day at Mar-A-Lago, I'm wondering about precisely that.

    What group or agency would be in charge of physically hauling His Obstructiveness out of there and dumping him on the lawn?
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Obama joked on a talk show that the Navy SEALS could drag him out!
    :)

    Or perhaps a trail of Big Macs and fake ballots could do it?
  • Just guessing, but probably the Capitol Police.
  • Not Capitol Police. They only guard the Capitol. It will be the Secret Service which is responsible for the White House.
  • Ive heard the Secret Service. Which would probably delight some of them.
  • Ive heard the Secret Service. Which would probably delight some of them.

    The ones that aren't in the hospital because of his stunt when he was at Walter Reed.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Whether SEALS, Secret Service, or retired astronauts, they should be women. Ones who can thoroughly defend themselves, should his behavior require it.
  • Giuliani has explained it all. Team Trump's strategy is to get the issue before the Supreme Court, where, as they believe, the conservative justices will swing the vote in President 45's favour. I hope and trust they are mistaken.
  • TonyKTonyK Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Doesn't all this court nonsense fall under the category of 'vexatious litigation'?

    Does the USA have protection against this?
  • Lamb ChoppedLamb Chopped Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    We do, but a) nobody wants to be the center of a far-right shitstorm over "you personally stole the election from our beloved Fuhrer," and b) for more rational people, the best defense against accusations like a is "We gave him enough rope to hang himself several times over--and he did, no need to blame us."

    ETA: Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you take his lawsuits away from him, you give him that much more time to think up something truly crazy and dangerous. Imagine you're caretaking for a particularly evil, evil, EVIL cat. If you bury it in yarn, chances are it will be fully occupied until its owner comes to pick it up, and you've run out the clock. If you take away the yarn, it will have nothing to do and will probably spray up your curtains.
  • Well, I suppose he could order a nuclear strike on Wilmington.
  • Ohher wrote: »
    What group or agency would be in charge of physically hauling His Obstructiveness out of there and dumping him on the lawn?

    Possibly the Park Service Police. The White House is technically a National Park and falls under their jurisdiction. The Secret Service is tasked with protecting the person of the president, the Park Service is responsible for the physical grounds and structures of the White House.
    TonyK wrote: »
    Doesn't all this court nonsense fall under the category of 'vexatious litigation'?

    Does the USA have protection against this?

    Yes, but most of those protections are against a litigant repeatedly filing frivolous suits in the same court. There's no real protection against someone filing multiple frivolous suits in different state and federal courts. Each court has to get fed up with him independent of the others.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    News reports here indicate that the courts are indeed independently getting fed up with him.

    His general obstructiveness may well be preventing him from doing something really evil, as @Lamb Chopped so graphically illustrates - but what grudge, @Eirenist, might he have against Wilmington? I assume that the city in North Carolina is meant, and not the suburb of a town about 20 miles west of here...
    :fearful:
  • His general obstructiveness may well be preventing him from doing something really evil, as @Lamb Chopped so graphically illustrates - but what grudge, @Eirenist, might he have against Wilmington? I assume that the city in North Carolina is meant, and not the suburb of a town about 20 miles west of here...
    :fearful:

    I'm pretty sure @Eirenist meant the Wilmington that's in Delaware, currently home to Joe Biden and his transition team.
  • Crœsos wrote: »
    His general obstructiveness may well be preventing him from doing something really evil, as @Lamb Chopped so graphically illustrates - but what grudge, @Eirenist, might he have against Wilmington? I assume that the city in North Carolina is meant, and not the suburb of a town about 20 miles west of here...
    :fearful:

    I'm pretty sure @Eirenist meant the Wilmington that's in Delaware, currently home to Joe Biden and his transition team.
    I assume so, too. Since I live there, I vote "No" on any nuclear strike.

    There are a lot of villages, towns and cities named Wilmington. Heck, Illinois has TWO of them! Amusingly, some years back when Wilmington, Delaware got a minor league baseball team, it was placed in "the Carolina League"--rather a number of fans of the other Carolina League teams were confused that it was NOT Wilmington, NC!

  • TonyKTonyK Shipmate, Host Emeritus
    Crœsos wrote: »

    TonyK wrote: »
    Doesn't all this court nonsense fall under the category of 'vexatious litigation'?

    Does the USA have protection against this?

    Yes, but most of those protections are against a litigant repeatedly filing frivolous suits in the same court. There's no real protection against someone filing multiple frivolous suits in different state and federal courts. Each court has to get fed up with him independent of the others.

    Thanks for the information. Disappointing!
  • Thanks for the info re the various Wilmingtons.

    If I'd been paying attention, I would probably have cottoned on to the connection with President-definitely-elect Biden.
    :blush:
  • JonahManJonahMan Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    A recent judgement in Pennsylvania has the judge rather smacking down the Trump campaign's lawsuit: https://t.co/8lF8v4aZzH?amp=1

    The main reason given (other than a lot of legal bits about the standing of the plaintiffs and whether the defendants could possibly be found responsible) was that you don't remedy some people not having their votes counted by disenfranchising millions of others. Which seems fair enough.
  • Yes, I saw that on BBC News. Well said, Your Honour!
    :wink:
  • Hedgehog wrote: »
    Crœsos wrote: »
    His general obstructiveness may well be preventing him from doing something really evil, as @Lamb Chopped so graphically illustrates - but what grudge, @Eirenist, might he have against Wilmington? I assume that the city in North Carolina is meant, and not the suburb of a town about 20 miles west of here...
    :fearful:

    I'm pretty sure @Eirenist meant the Wilmington that's in Delaware, currently home to Joe Biden and his transition team.
    I assume so, too. Since I live there, I vote "No" on any nuclear strike.

    There are a lot of villages, towns and cities named Wilmington. Heck, Illinois has TWO of them! Amusingly, some years back when Wilmington, Delaware got a minor league baseball team, it was placed in "the Carolina League"--rather a number of fans of the other Carolina League teams were confused that it was NOT Wilmington, NC!

    Wilmington and Springfield seem popular :smiley:

    ETA: Idle hands are the devil's workshop. If you take his lawsuits away from him, you give him that much more time to think up something truly crazy and dangerous. Imagine you're caretaking for a particularly evil, evil, EVIL cat. If you bury it in yarn, chances are it will be fully occupied until its owner comes to pick it up, and you've run out the clock. If you take away the yarn, it will have nothing to do and will probably spray up your curtains.

    Love the metaphor!!!!

  • We have two Wilmingtons, neither of which is very big, so it is odd that so many have been named after them. One has a chalk figure.
    Here he grasps the door jambs, so as not to be dragged out. http://www.photographers-resource.co.uk/images/A_heritage/hillside/longman_wilmington/long man.jpg
  • Wilmington NC features in the Sweet Honey protest song about the chain of production and distribution in the rag trade Are My Hands Clean? Actually, I misremembered the lyric. But I'm posting anyway, because I love it. It strikes me as fundamentally true.
  • Robert ArminRobert Armin Shipmate, Glory
    Why is Trump loved so much? I doubt anyone on the Ship can answer that, but lots of people clearly do. What has he done to generate this?
  • BoogieBoogie Heaven Host
    edited November 2020
    Why is Trump loved so much? I doubt anyone on the Ship can answer that, but lots of people clearly do. What has he done to generate this?

    Look at other crazy cult leaders and ask the same question. They clearly meet a deep need for a certain kind of certainty and belonging. Exploitation.

    It’s awful and very sad 😢
  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Don Jr. tested positive for Covid, and said he's going to spend his quarantine time cleaning guns and watching Netflix.

    Long article from US version of The Sun. It reviews who at the WH has had it, plus relevant topics. IMHO, it wanders a bit.

    😮 I don't know much about guns (living as I do in a police state with no access to them *and* socialized healthcare, the horror), but aren't you supposed to clean them immediately after they've been used? You'd think a gun nut would have more respect for his "tools" (or as we say on this side of the pond, lethal weapons).
  • BroJamesBroJames Purgatory Host
    Even unused, guns need periodic cleaning.
  • Given The Donald's hazy grasp of geography, if I lived in Wilmington, Sussex, I'd be praying.
  • Golden KeyGolden Key Shipmate, Glory
    Boogie wrote: »
    Why is Trump loved so much? I doubt anyone on the Ship can answer that, but lots of people clearly do. What has he done to generate this?

    Look at other crazy cult leaders and ask the same question. They clearly meet a deep need for a certain kind of certainty and belonging. Exploitation.

    It’s awful and very sad 😢

    This. Also he makes noises about helping working people, which is a facet of Make America Great Again; saving jobs for American citizens, and/or bringing the jobs back from overseas; keeping illegal AND legal immigrants away, etc. Not that he cares about or even really understands any of that.

    The thing is, there's some truth about underlying situations there: jobs have gone overseas; foreign workers have come here on visas to do work Americans can do, and often at lower pay than Americans would get--but higher pay than the foreign workers would get back home. He's playing on the pain, disappointment, anger, and dissatisfaction of American workers, and holding out hope he'll make things better as bait.
  • stetsonstetson Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    @GoldenKey

    The thing is, there's some truth about underlying situations there: jobs have gone overseas; foreign workers have come here on visas to do work Americans can do, and often at lower pay than Americans would get--but higher pay than the foreign workers would get back home. He's playing on the pain, disappointment, anger, and dissatisfaction of American workers, and holding out hope he'll make things better as bait.


    The one aspect of Trump's immigration crusade that never bothered me much was cutting-back on visas for Silicon Valley jobs. No reason the government needs to assist tech firms in hiring foreigners for jobs that Americans would be qualified to do.

    And I say this as someone employed on a work visa myself.

  • Golden Key wrote: »
    Boogie wrote: »
    Why is Trump loved so much? I doubt anyone on the Ship can answer that, but lots of people clearly do. What has he done to generate this?

    Look at other crazy cult leaders and ask the same question. They clearly meet a deep need for a certain kind of certainty and belonging. Exploitation.

    It’s awful and very sad 😢

    This. Also he makes noises about helping working people, which is a facet of Make America Great Again; saving jobs for American citizens, and/or bringing the jobs back from overseas; keeping illegal AND legal immigrants away, etc. Not that he cares about or even really understands any of that.

    The thing is, there's some truth about underlying situations there: jobs have gone overseas; foreign workers have come here on visas to do work Americans can do, and often at lower pay than Americans would get--but higher pay than the foreign workers would get back home. He's playing on the pain, disappointment, anger, and dissatisfaction of American workers, and holding out hope he'll make things better as bait.
    It is not just about jobs. It is the existential threat to identity.
    White people* fear losing their place. No matter how bad one's situation, a white person is at least not the lowest on the totem pole. This also ties into the myth of the American Dream. Keeping POC down gives more room on that upward mobility ladder.
    Then there are the Christians who fear multi-culturalism as a threat to Christian being the default in America.
    The downward economic slide of more and more people, the uncertainty in the world, etc. all cause fear. Fear is easier to deal with if one has someone/something to blame.

    *Shouldn't have to say this, but this obviously is not ALL white people. But a damn lot of them.
  • HugalHugal Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    Over here the immigrants are largely doing the jobs the British don’t want to do. It must be similar over there. Not many Brits want to do plumbing or picking veg or cockles. They tend to be the jobs immigrants do. There are some better jobs such as nursing but not as a whole. That gives the moaners the ability to say immigrant are taking out jobs without saying what those jobs are.
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    *Shouldn't have to say this, but this obviously is not ALL white people. But a damn lot of them.
    You know, you could just say "some" or "most" or whatever it is you really mean.
  • Dave W wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    *Shouldn't have to say this, but this obviously is not ALL white people. But a damn lot of them.
    You know, you could just say "some" or "most" or whatever it is you really mean.
    OK, so there is a problem with most or some. It is an easy out for people to think they are part of the exception when they are probably not. Because the problem is not only the active racists and the racist but won't admit it out loud. It is also loads of people who are racist to some degree but do not realise/accept that they are. And it is the people who are not racist, but don't do anything to diminish racism. Racism is endemic and systemic in the US to the point where if one does not actively fight it, one passively participates in it.
    Identity goes beyond racism, and can be more complex than that. But in the US, white people are the largest group who fear losing their place. So, even if one doesn't think race is real, doesn't think POC are inherently different, one could still vote Trump because, artificial as one might realise colour is, one can still fear to lose that advantage.
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Over here the immigrants are largely doing the jobs the British don’t want to do. It must be similar over there. Not many Brits want to do plumbing or picking veg or cockles. They tend to be the jobs immigrants do. There are some better jobs such as nursing but not as a whole. That gives the moaners the ability to say immigrant are taking out jobs without saying what those jobs are.

    I think it's pretty much the same thing in the U.S. The people screaming about locking out the immigrants and building walls are not applying for jobs picking vegetables, serving as motel maids, etc. etc.
  • edited November 2020
    Apropos of trump and not the current direction of the thread, this is brilliant- Trump sings Bohemian Rhapsody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i05gKtHWjGY
  • Hugal wrote: »
    Over here the immigrants are largely doing the jobs the British don’t want to do. It must be similar over there. Not many Brits want to do plumbing or picking veg or cockles. They tend to be the jobs immigrants do. There are some better jobs such as nursing but not as a whole. That gives the moaners the ability to say immigrant are taking out jobs without saying what those jobs are.

    Really? People don't want to be plumbers? If you have a trade you are in clover over here.
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    Dave W wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    *Shouldn't have to say this, but this obviously is not ALL white people. But a damn lot of them.
    You know, you could just say "some" or "most" or whatever it is you really mean.
    OK, so there is a problem with most or some. It is an easy out for people to think they are part of the exception when they are probably not.
    I think you're greatly overestimating the power of your words to determine what other people will think. But even apart from that, it seems self-defeating to scrupulously avoid using "some" or "most" but then give it all a way in a footnote with "obviously not ALL".
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    Dave W wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    *Shouldn't have to say this, but this obviously is not ALL white people. But a damn lot of them.
    You know, you could just say "some" or "most" or whatever it is you really mean.
    OK, so there is a problem with most or some. It is an easy out for people to think they are part of the exception when they are probably not.
    Your footnote presents the exact same out for anyone who wants to use it. It’s a whole lot easier and clearer just to say what you mean, such as “Too many white people fear losing their place, and too many of them deny they have that fear.”

  • There's basically only two routes: say "all" and be wrong, or leave an out. Even if you pick the first that leaves an out, because people who know that "all" is wrong will then dismiss the whole thing.
  • Dave W wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Dave W wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    *Shouldn't have to say this, but this obviously is not ALL white people. But a damn lot of them.
    You know, you could just say "some" or "most" or whatever it is you really mean.
    OK, so there is a problem with most or some. It is an easy out for people to think they are part of the exception when they are probably not.
    I think you're greatly overestimating the power of your words to determine what other people will think. But even apart from that, it seems self-defeating to scrupulously avoid using "some" or "most" but then give it all a way in a footnote with "obviously not ALL".
    The fact that you complained about it suggests otherwise.
  • lilbuddha wrote: »
    Dave W wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    Dave W wrote: »
    lilbuddha wrote: »
    *Shouldn't have to say this, but this obviously is not ALL white people. But a damn lot of them.
    You know, you could just say "some" or "most" or whatever it is you really mean.
    OK, so there is a problem with most or some. It is an easy out for people to think they are part of the exception when they are probably not.
    I think you're greatly overestimating the power of your words to determine what other people will think. But even apart from that, it seems self-defeating to scrupulously avoid using "some" or "most" but then give it all a way in a footnote with "obviously not ALL".
    The fact that you complained about it suggests otherwise.
    Or maybe my comment just suggests that I'm really missing the eyeroll emoji.
  • Gramps49Gramps49 Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    And then there is the story of Trump liquidating the OC 135B planes that have provided intelligence to the signees of the Open Skies Treaty which allows us to fly over Russian territory. Of course, Russia also had permission to fly over NATO territory--including the US. By liquidation, I mean they are completely destroying the planes and the equipment in those planes. This would meet the constitutional definition of treason.
  • PendragonPendragon Shipmate
    edited November 2020
    On a more light hearted note, is it wrong to think this year's presidential pardoning of the turkey was practice for January?!
  • Did he pardon the white meat and the dark meat?
Sign In or Register to comment.