Ship of Fools: St Margaret’s of Antioch, St Margaret’s at Cliffe, England


imageShip of Fools: St Margaret’s of Antioch, St Margaret’s at Cliffe, England

Be a witness to the Resurrection – and have some coffee and biscuits

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here


Comments

  • SignallerSignaller Shipmate
    I'm confused. The congregation used the BCP, but the text of the service was from Common Worship?
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    I’m really impressed that the one thing that will be remembered in 7 days’ time had to do with the sermon. I’m sure that had it been me, all would have been overshadowed by hearing “Ain’t Misbehavin’” as part of the prelude on Easter. (I still recall the Easter 31 years ago where the offertory was “Welcome, Sweet Springtime, We Greet Thee in Song.”)

    But I’m a little confused that it was hellish to have to wait for the choir to commune before the congregation began to commune. That’s very common in my experience. Why was that a problem?
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    It's normal for us - it allows the choir to return to their loft and be ready to sing the communion anthem.
  • Bishops FingerBishops Finger Shipmate
    edited April 22
    Just to be awkward, we did the reverse yesterday - the 'choir' (well, small ad hoc group) sang a worship song (motet?) during Communion, and then went to the altar rail for their own Communion.

    This enabled a young Mum with 2 Small People, who had had to take them to the loo, and was thereby delayed (!), to join the singers......

    BTW, the MWer might be a bit confused by the titles 'Common Worship' and 'Book of Common Prayer', though it is possible to mix the two e.g. by using the traditional language/settings for some sung items, or by using the trad language version of the whole service (CW Order 2, I think - the former Rite B).
  • Hmm.....what's with the Cool Dude emoji? I meant Rite [second letter of the alphabet].

    Is it April 1st again?
    :confounded:
  • PDRPDR Shipmate
    edited July 11
    Pendant alert: CW Order Two is following the order of the 1662 BCP, and has both modern language and traditional language variants. The former Rite B is Order One in Traditional Language.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Just to be awkward, we did the reverse yesterday - the 'choir' (well, small ad hoc group) sang a worship song (motet?) during Communion, and then went to the altar rail for their own Communion.
    Somehow I missed this way back when. That’s how we do it; the choir communes after the congregation, which allows it to sing/lead the singing of a hymn as communion starts.

    But as I said, I’ve frequently seen choirs commune first, especially in Episcopal churches. Still can’t imagine why that was thought of as hellish.

  • Amanda B ReckondwythAmanda B Reckondwyth Mystery Worship Editor
    Any choir I've been a member of always communed first. I could never understand congregational hymn singing during communion -- as if people are going to carry the hymnal with them up to communion. It's hard enough to juggle books in the pews, let alone juggling them while kneeling with your hands extended to receive the Host. If it's a hymn everyone knows (or should know :wink:) from memory, OK. If the hymn is started when communion is done and "the dishes are being washed," OK. But while the people are receiving? I don't understand it.
  • john holdingjohn holding Ecclesiantics Host, Dead Horses Host, Mystery Worshipper Host
    Well, at a guess Miss A, the people supposed to be singing are those in the pews who have received or who are waiting to get into line, certainly not those in the line (unless a well-known song has been chosen, of course, as you mention).
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    Or unless the song chosen is a simple one, like a Taizé song, or something like a responsorial psalm, where the congregation only sings an easily learned refrain. We have used this and this in that way, and both have worked well.
  • Any choir I've been a member of always communed first. I could never understand congregational hymn singing during communion -- as if people are going to carry the hymnal with them up to communion. It's hard enough to juggle books in the pews, let alone juggling them while kneeling with your hands extended to receive the Host. If it's a hymn everyone knows (or should know :wink:) from memory, OK. If the hymn is started when communion is done and "the dishes are being washed," OK. But while the people are receiving? I don't understand it.

    Choir and clergy should always commune last as it emphasises servanthood.
  • Gee DGee D Shipmate
    I've never seen that done. Is it a common practice elsewhere? Apart from anything else, the post-communion hymn is needed to give time to perform the ablutions.
  • Nick TamenNick Tamen Shipmate
    In my experience, it’s very common for clergy (and elders) to commune last in Reformed churches, and for clergy to be served rather than to serve themselves.

    Can’t say I’ve ever seen it in an Episcopal/Anglican church, though. The (American) 1979 BCP specifically provides that those who are serving receive first.
  • Irrelevant diversion... Until quite recently I hadn't even heard of St Margaret of Antioch. The tiny church across the road from where we lived in a small Hertfordshire village (where I was baptised) was just 'the church' - I never knew its proper name back then. Such an interesting history to the name.
  • Indeed, and Wikipedia says there are about 250 churches in England dedicated to her, though her story seems mostly to be...erm....fabulous...

    The young lady (she was only 15 when martyred) is not, of course, to be confused with St Margaret of Scotland (1045-1093).
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