Ship of Fools: Our Lady of Sorrows Priory, Phoenix, Arizona, USA

The Mystery Worshipper

Ship of Fools: Our Lady of Sorrows Priory, Phoenix, Arizona, USA

A trip down Memory Lane, plus donuts and bitter coffee

Read the full Mystery Worshipper report here

Urganda

Fascinating. I am a stranger in these parts but it seems to me a shame that Gregorian chant should be lumped in with reactionary doctrine.

Forthview

I am sure that Miss Amanda will have been even more aware that me that the Priory of our Lady of Sorrows is, indeed like Miss Amanda herself, no longer completely affiliated to the Roman Catholic Church, belonging, if I read correctly, (but not about Miss Amanda) to the schismatic society of St Pius X.
I read on their parish bulletin that girls and women should always have their heads covered in church AND be wearing dresses which come well below the knees when they are sitting down. Miss Amanda will no doubt have been pleased that boys should not be wearing sports clothes or shoes to church. Communion should only have been received by those who are in a state of grace with requisite fasting beforehand AND of course be in full communion with the Catholic church, as the Society of St Pius X understands these matters.
It was, however, admirable to see what efforts the community have made both in buildings and organisation to provide a they see it a suitable house for the Lord.

Bishops Finger

Hmm.

I wondered quite what 'reactionary doctrine' @Urganda was referring to!

Meanwhile, ISTM that Gregorian chant could (if rendered well) enhance any traditional form of worship, whatever doctrine were preached...

Amanda B Reckondwyth

One unfortunate consequence of Vatican II was the abandonment of the glorious tradition of sacred music in the Church -- not only the chant, but polyphony as well -- in favor of the vapid ditties one hears almost everywhere nowadays.

That said, RC churches do exist that carry on the old traditions. I've been to some.

Of course, good interpretation of chant and polyphony depends on (1) a choirmaster who knows his stuff and (2) choristers willing and able to devote the time and effort to mastering it. Gregorian notation is difficult to read if you're not used to it. Yes, I know, the chants exist in modern notation, but modern notation can only come close, not hit the bullseye, in capturing all the subtleties of the chant.

Urganda

Abandoning Gregorian chant was a very unfortunate consequence. However, it is possible to learn the chant without attaching it to any creed. (I'm doing it, quite laboriously, but it is wonderful.) It touches subconscious areas that doctrine does not reach. I've heard of whole monastic communities falling ill and falling apart once they stopped chanting.

PDR

One of my long standing frustrations with The Hymnal, 1940 is that it insisted on rendering plainsong in round notes on five lines, not square 'uns on four lines. This introduces a certain element of what I would call 'woodenness' into the singing. IMHO The English Hymnal managed things a lot better in that regard. The melody for the singers is done in plainsong notation, whilst the accompaniment is done in modern notation.

Of course, getting most congregations to embrace plainsong is a different matter. I have had little success with present parish so far.

Edith

I read this with mounting horror thanking the good Lord that I don’t live anywhere this place. And then I read in the comments that it’s a schismatic place.

Even in the English provinces in the 1950s women were not policed in this fashion.
And, sad though I am at the (almost) total disappearance of Gregorian Chant, a wheezing harmonium and a congregation almost totally ignorant of Latin, didn’t make for understanding let alone a transcendent experience.

As for ‘donuts’ and bitter coffee - the custom in that same provincial town was a really good pot of tea, properly mashed and a piece of parkin to go with it. All made by the Union of Catholic Mothers.

Bishops Finger

IIRC, they use plainsong chants (would that be the same as Gregorian?) for Psalms etc. at Evensong at All Saints, Margaret Street, London - a flagship Anglo-Catholic parish, but definitely Anglican, rather than Roman, IYSWIM.

Of course, they have a first-class choir to lead the singing, but (again) IIRC, that helps the congregation to join in well.

Doubtless, there are Other Places where this is done!

Personally, I much prefer plainsong to Anglican chant, but YMMV.

caerdeonman

Just a small proof-reading point. It should read at the top St Pius X, rather than St Piux!

Amanda B Reckondwyth

Good catch. Thanks. One does wonder what the good saint thinks of the application of his name to this branch of the One True Church.

Forthview

I remember once a young American telling me enthusiastically that he had been to Lourdes and had attended Mass in the church of St Pix (St Pie X) In French Pius is pronounced as 'pee'

PDR

Bishops Finger wrote: »

IIRC, they use plainsong chants (would that be the same as Gregorian?) for Psalms etc. at Evensong at All Saints, Margaret Street, London - a flagship Anglo-Catholic parish, but definitely Anglican, rather than Roman, IYSWIM.

Of course, they have a first-class choir to lead the singing, but (again) IIRC, that helps the congregation to join in well.

Doubtless, there are Other Places where this is done!

Personally, I much prefer plainsong to Anglican chant, but YMMV.

Depends what you are doing. Anglican chant seems to lend itself to a sleepy Evensong in a country church of a summer evening. Plainsong is more Evensong and Benners, or Matins before Mass because this the way we do it.