Around the time of the Hanoi summit, Pelosi lectured some visiting South Korea politicians in DC about why they were naïve and shouldn't trust the North- because she understands their country better than they do.
In fairness to Pelosi, there are a lot of politicians in the ROK itself who think the same way as she does about negotiating with the North.
The ironic thing is, of course, is that these same politicians are the ones who think that Democrats were a bunch of commie dupes for not letting MacArthur run amok during the war, and that anyone who disagrees with their assesment of such matters should have a blowtorch put to their genitalia. Or at least are nostalgic for the days when that would been the standard procedure.
If the mainstream media and the vast bulk of Americans do not support Trump's policy on Korea, that is mainly Trump's fault.
Um, no. The task of the media is not to complacently wait for the government to set the narrative and supply talking points- though that is often what they in fact do. There is no excuse for the ignorance and misinformation they continue to propagate. Trump being an idiot does not prevent journalists from doing their homework. These "democracy dies in darkness" people like to talk about the importance of a free, independent media and yet, by and large, they continue to operate as uncritical mouthpieces of the foreign policy establishment and all its myopic, discredited dogma.
Sorry, I'm not getting how your suggestion that the press should be uncritically propagating the president*'s preferred narrative counts as "a free, independent media". I'm also pretty sure the idea that corrupt perfidy is the only possible reason anyone could disagree with Donald Trump isn't terribly conducive to "a free, independent media" either.
If the mainstream media and the vast bulk of Americans do not support Trump's policy on Korea, that is mainly Trump's fault.
Um, no. The task of the media is not to complacently wait for the government to set the narrative and supply talking points- though that is often what they in fact do. There is no excuse for the ignorance and misinformation they continue to propagate. Trump being an idiot does not prevent journalists from doing their homework. These "democracy dies in darkness" people like to talk about the importance of a free, independent media and yet, by and large, they continue to operate as uncritical mouthpieces of the foreign policy establishment and all its myopic, discredited dogma.
Sorry, I'm not getting how your suggestion that the press should be uncritically propagating the president*'s preferred narrative counts as "a free, independent media". I'm also pretty sure the idea that corrupt perfidy is the only possible reason anyone could disagree with Donald Trump isn't terribly conducive to "a free, independent media" either.
Well, isn't that your premise? That "the media" (no citations or examples offered) are just "uncritical mouthpieces of the foreign policy establishment", not that they've simply come to a different opinion than you? Your whole criticism depends on the premise that no one could possibly disagree with Donald Trump (or yourself) for honest and considered reasons.
I'm a few days behind in reading the recent posts. Responding to G.K.'s post - "Get Congressional Republicans to at least imitate human beings long enough to start some immediate changes."
And don't forget to tell them that if they crave a drink of water, they must get it from toilet.
My point concerning Trump's responsibility is that it is his job to take the American people along with him in relation to Korea. It is his task to convince the public, including the established tool for convincing the public, being the media, to get behind what he is doing in Korea.
But Trump says only "trust me". He does not say what his plans are, only his ultimate goal. His stated ultimate goal, of denuclearising the Peninsula, is one that he now seems to have dropped. But its difficult to say, because he is unwilling or unable to articulate his goal or his strategy in public. Is it any wonder that faced with a 'trust me' from Donald J. Trump, Americans look at him skeptically. Because the underlying problem is that Trump can't be trusted, and neither can North Korea.
As regards Democrats, I believe they are in exactly the same position as the American people and the media. The President has not given them the benefit of his thinking. The President has not consulted them as to what the strategy should be. He has not sought their experience, which includes the experience of being stiffed by North Korea in the past. Far from seeking to include democratic figures in his decision-making processes, he has sought to isolate them and use them as scapegoats for whatever problem he encounters.
Is it any wonder that Nancy Pelosi seeks to echo the position of the State Department. It is only right and proper that with Trump visibly ducking and weaving on Korea, she finds her policy inspiration in the State Department. That is one of the reasons for having diplomats and in-house experts: to advise people on matters within their expertise. It is a pity, but one entirely in keeping with his fatally flawed character, that Trump trusts, apparently, none of the organs of his Administration except Homeland Security... as long as they keep doing business with his hotels of course.
Has anybody seen the man since yesterday? His tweets sound too coherent to be him.
I was wondering about this too. The governor of my state was waiting for Pence at what passes for our airport here, with conflicting reports of AF2 being "turned back" b/c Pence was "recalled" to DC, vs. "Pence never left DC." No further explanation since. Has our dear leader been felled by an apoplectic fit over opposition to his hijacking of the National B'Day?
... Has our dear leader been felled by an apoplectic fit?
The world can but hope.
Remember when the deaths of leaders of the Soviet Union wouldn't be announced for ages because they didn't want the West to think they were rudderless?
When one of them (I think it was Andropov) died some wag on British television* said, "The date for Mr. Andropov's funeral has been announced. It was last August."
But there is a time limit on this one. Trump (if you will forgive the use of such language in polite company) planned to bask in the glory of his Independence Day Display of military might to crush any opposition....such as the free press...or those committed to democracy. If he does not make an appearance it Will Be Noticed.
Yes, and that's what i'm counting on. Right now I'm experiencing the shameful frustration of a mystery reader whose dog has eaten the last chapter of the book.
He's going to jump out of a big cake in front of the Lincoln Memorial dressed in a leotard and sing a Randy Rainbow number about how much he loves military men.
I don't think that he has them, in any sane, well-founded, thought-out sense. His way of being in the world is to say whatever he thinks will help him at the time. He may reverse himself the next day, or deny that he ever said any such thing at all.
But IMHO this is not a matter of T deciding to try to really help the Koreas, or trying to make the world a better place.
Possibly Ivanka might be prodding him in that direction. She's involved in all this, went on the trip, advises her father, and is the person her father says gets him to do good things.
I don't necessarily really hold T responsible for the horrible things he does. He's massively, deeply broken; possibly has both mental illness and dementia; was taught by his father that only winners deserve to be loved. That last is his moral compass, IMHO. He seems not to have any other. He's a horrible mess, and I feel sorry for him on that basis--particularly for little Donny, who may never have had a chance at a supportive childhood that would help him grow up into a good and reasonably-functional man.
He's not playing with a full deck; and he can only be trusted to do the wrong thing. So he can't be trusted to come up with good policies, enact them, and stick with them.
I love that schmultzy feel good film, especially when he gets his accountant to come in on Cabinet meetings.
I do too -- I think I may have to watch it again (for the umpteenth time) tomorrow evening. (I also happen to have a terrible crush on Kevin Kline, and have been delighted to meet him several times. )
Oooo. BTW, did you see him in the film "Pirates Of Penzance"? Really good!
Of course -- both versions! And I heard him sing "I Am a Pirate King" at a small gathering in someone's home.
My late sister went to see him perform "Pirates of Penzance" in Central Park, New York, but it was rained out. (Jacqueline Kennedy and Mike Nichols were also in the audience.)
[I apologize to the hosts for turning a Trump thread into a Kevin Kline thread, but you have to admit it's an improvement.]
I'm surprised that an alternate celebration hasn't been planned -- perhaps it has. It will be interesting to see the reports on how large the crowd was for the hijacking of our most sacred holiday.
The 39th edition of A Capitol Fourth is being held on the West Lawn of the US Capitol building, with the usual concert and fireworks display broadcast on PBS.
I see on my facebook feed that Trump has emerged from his programming session, and has not suffered some sort of calamity. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
Kevin Kline is a stone cold genius. If you guys don't make him President for real next year I'm going to offer him a teaching gig at NADA here in Melbourne, and get him to do some Shakespeare.
I'm none too sure (about the "has not suffered some sort of calamity" bit). My husband had a small stroke last spring and was up and 99% functional the next day, unless he moved in certain ways. (Cue: "Well, just don't do that!")
And an Alzheimer's event, like going starkers in the Oval Office, would probably abate enough to allow this appearance, particularly with good meds and handling. I've seen that too.
And an Alzheimer's event, like going starkers in the Oval Office, would probably abate enough to allow this appearance, particularly with good meds and handling. I've seen that too.
I don't think he went starkers in the Oval Office, but it was pretty obvious that Reagan was losing it throughout most of his second term. Nancy and her astrologer were apparently making his decisions for him.
Yep. And Alzheimers can produce some spectacularly over-the-top behaviors in people who seemed normal a few minutes ago. Maybe someone freaked and called Pence back.
I love that schmultzy feel good film, especially when he gets his accountant to come in on Cabinet meetings.
I do too -- I think I may have to watch it again (for the umpteenth time) tomorrow evening. (I also happen to have a terrible crush on Kevin Kline, and have been delighted to meet him several times. )
I don't know how many times I've watched "Dave," but I still LOL'd this evening. (e.g., I'd forgotten about him pocketing the ash tray when he first arrives at the White House.)
This is the first time I've watched it since you-know-who took over the White House. The relationship between the POTUS and the First Lady was prophetic.
I honestly don't know how the Trumpinistas can stand him. Surely some of them must know he is a disgrace and a shame on the USA.
For some of them that's the point. The stupid cruelty and cruel stupidity are just another way of "owning the libs", which is all there really is to a lot of American conservatism.
For others of a more racist bent there's a certain in-your-face logic to putting Trump in office after Obama. Obama demonstrated that with a combination of natural talent, extremely hard work, and luck a black man could be President of the United States. The old traditional "work twice as hard to be considered half as good" that applies to so many situations like that. The obvious racist reply is that any white man, no matter how unqualified, could be president.
Which at Fort McHenry we(UK) were ramming (or maybe bombing*) and they(USA) were manning (although not during the war of independence).
That was quite impressively Trumpian (although I've only seen the minute version), I wonder what he was thinking and what his notes said. There does seem to be a lot of Star Spangled Banner influences.
*which might explain the air references (in a speech section about the army IIUC).
Incidentally, if you did want to catch people out, the French Air Corp does predate McHenry by 20 years, and 'manning the air' would be a true statement for the US Civil War. I don't think it is for the western theater of the Napoleonic wars, let alone for the previous Anglo-French war, though.
George Washing briefs his troops, "Oh guess we are going to have to cross the Delaware River after all troops, looks like the airport is fogged in tonight."
Silly Shipmate, it wasn't the Hudson, it was the Delaware. That's how George Washington got across, don't you know? He was booked in first class on that flight, and when the plane landed on the water he simply had his troops row a life raft to shore with him in it on horseback, of course, as the famous painting shows.
Washington was a Mason, so he must've used Secret Stuff (tm) to get across. Actually, there's a famous painting of him in Masonic gear, laying the foundation stone for something or other.
Comments
In fairness to Pelosi, there are a lot of politicians in the ROK itself who think the same way as she does about negotiating with the North.
The ironic thing is, of course, is that these same politicians are the ones who think that Democrats were a bunch of commie dupes for not letting MacArthur run amok during the war, and that anyone who disagrees with their assesment of such matters should have a blowtorch put to their genitalia. Or at least are nostalgic for the days when that would been the standard procedure.
Sorry, I'm not getting how your suggestion that the press should be uncritically propagating the president*'s preferred narrative counts as "a free, independent media". I'm also pretty sure the idea that corrupt perfidy is the only possible reason anyone could disagree with Donald Trump isn't terribly conducive to "a free, independent media" either.
Cool strawman, bro.
"Get Congressional Republicans to at least imitate human beings long enough to start some immediate changes."
And don't forget to tell them that if they crave a drink of water, they must get it from toilet.
But Trump says only "trust me". He does not say what his plans are, only his ultimate goal. His stated ultimate goal, of denuclearising the Peninsula, is one that he now seems to have dropped. But its difficult to say, because he is unwilling or unable to articulate his goal or his strategy in public. Is it any wonder that faced with a 'trust me' from Donald J. Trump, Americans look at him skeptically. Because the underlying problem is that Trump can't be trusted, and neither can North Korea.
As regards Democrats, I believe they are in exactly the same position as the American people and the media. The President has not given them the benefit of his thinking. The President has not consulted them as to what the strategy should be. He has not sought their experience, which includes the experience of being stiffed by North Korea in the past. Far from seeking to include democratic figures in his decision-making processes, he has sought to isolate them and use them as scapegoats for whatever problem he encounters.
Is it any wonder that Nancy Pelosi seeks to echo the position of the State Department. It is only right and proper that with Trump visibly ducking and weaving on Korea, she finds her policy inspiration in the State Department. That is one of the reasons for having diplomats and in-house experts: to advise people on matters within their expertise. It is a pity, but one entirely in keeping with his fatally flawed character, that Trump trusts, apparently, none of the organs of his Administration except Homeland Security... as long as they keep doing business with his hotels of course.
I was wondering about this too. The governor of my state was waiting for Pence at what passes for our airport here, with conflicting reports of AF2 being "turned back" b/c Pence was "recalled" to DC, vs. "Pence never left DC." No further explanation since. Has our dear leader been felled by an apoplectic fit over opposition to his hijacking of the National B'Day?
Remember when the deaths of leaders of the Soviet Union wouldn't be announced for ages because they didn't want the West to think they were rudderless?
When one of them (I think it was Andropov) died some wag on British television* said, "The date for Mr. Andropov's funeral has been announced. It was last August."
* Possibly Not the Nine O'clock News
I don't think that he has them, in any sane, well-founded, thought-out sense. His way of being in the world is to say whatever he thinks will help him at the time. He may reverse himself the next day, or deny that he ever said any such thing at all.
But IMHO this is not a matter of T deciding to try to really help the Koreas, or trying to make the world a better place.
Possibly Ivanka might be prodding him in that direction. She's involved in all this, went on the trip, advises her father, and is the person her father says gets him to do good things.
I don't necessarily really hold T responsible for the horrible things he does. He's massively, deeply broken; possibly has both mental illness and dementia; was taught by his father that only winners deserve to be loved. That last is his moral compass, IMHO. He seems not to have any other. He's a horrible mess, and I feel sorry for him on that basis--particularly for little Donny, who may never have had a chance at a supportive childhood that would help him grow up into a good and reasonably-functional man.
He's not playing with a full deck; and he can only be trusted to do the wrong thing. So he can't be trusted to come up with good policies, enact them, and stick with them.
I do too -- I think I may have to watch it again (for the umpteenth time) tomorrow evening. (I also happen to have a terrible crush on Kevin Kline, and have been delighted to meet him several times.
Pigwidgeon--
Oooo.
Of course -- both versions! And I heard him sing "I Am a Pirate King" at a small gathering in someone's home.
My late sister went to see him perform "Pirates of Penzance" in Central Park, New York, but it was rained out. (Jacqueline Kennedy and Mike Nichols were also in the audience.)
[I apologize to the hosts for turning a Trump thread into a Kevin Kline thread, but you have to admit it's an improvement.]
So long as T don’t sing
Trump's is the alternate celebration.
Kevin Kline is a stone cold genius. If you guys don't make him President for real next year I'm going to offer him a teaching gig at NADA here in Melbourne, and get him to do some Shakespeare.
And an Alzheimer's event, like going starkers in the Oval Office, would probably abate enough to allow this appearance, particularly with good meds and handling. I've seen that too.
I don't think he went starkers in the Oval Office, but it was pretty obvious that Reagan was losing it throughout most of his second term. Nancy and her astrologer were apparently making his decisions for him.
I don't know how many times I've watched "Dave," but I still LOL'd this evening. (e.g., I'd forgotten about him pocketing the ash tray when he first arrives at the White House.)
This is the first time I've watched it since you-know-who took over the White House. The relationship between the POTUS and the First Lady was prophetic.
It was just after that that the rock group, Jefferson Airplane, was formed.
For some of them that's the point. The stupid cruelty and cruel stupidity are just another way of "owning the libs", which is all there really is to a lot of American conservatism.
For others of a more racist bent there's a certain in-your-face logic to putting Trump in office after Obama. Obama demonstrated that with a combination of natural talent, extremely hard work, and luck a black man could be President of the United States. The old traditional "work twice as hard to be considered half as good" that applies to so many situations like that. The obvious racist reply is that any white man, no matter how unqualified, could be president.
So why didn't the RAF fight off our Revolutionary army? They must have been asleep at the switch! Good thing we didn't attack with our Space Force.
Which at Fort McHenry we(UK) were ramming (or maybe bombing*) and they(USA) were manning (although not during the war of independence).
That was quite impressively Trumpian (although I've only seen the minute version), I wonder what he was thinking and what his notes said. There does seem to be a lot of Star Spangled Banner influences.
*which might explain the air references (in a speech section about the army IIUC).
Incidentally, if you did want to catch people out, the French Air Corp does predate McHenry by 20 years, and 'manning the air' would be a true statement for the US Civil War. I don't think it is for the western theater of the Napoleonic wars, let alone for the previous Anglo-French war, though.
The U.S. Capitol.