Take the thing that’s most important to you, and then go completely without it for at least three months, extending to an unspecified length of time in the future. Then do the same with your next three or four most important things as well.
Yes, lockdown is shit. Social distance is shit. Missing out on a year of summer sports is shit. And yes - some people will be affected more than other people. For some people, lockdown isn't too much of an imposition. For others, it means missing out on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. That sucks.
Nobody is saying that lockdown isn't bad. We are saying that it is better than 100,000 extra dead people. And we are saying that while some of our fellow humans are putting themselves at extra risk (because they're hospital workers, or grocery store workers, or somebody else that we need to keep working or everything breaks) then the least the rest of us can do to support them is to not put them and their families at extra risk. Which means staying home.
I know a lot of people might want to go out to restaurants, movies, hairdressers, etc., but how many of them are willing to do so the moment Donald Trump (or Boris Johnson, or whoever) says "it's safe to go out now, believe me"?
Me for one. But then I’d happily go and do those things now if I could.
Perhaps someone will come up with a whole new team sport that can be played without any contact. Perhaps future restaurants will have large lawns with tables in the open, or have several floors or whatever. I have a lot of faith in the human imagination. Yes, life will return but normal will be a new normal and that may be a good thing.
Take the thing that’s most important to you, and then go completely without it for at least three months, extending to an unspecified length of time in the future. Then do the same with your next three or four most important things as well.
ALL OF US ARE ALREADY DOING THIS. We're all making the same sacrifices you are (except that many of us don't have a toddler at home). Jesus Christ, Marvin, pull your head out.
This. This right here, except many are making far more sacrifices. Some people are putting their lives on the line. Others don't know how they'll pay rent on May 1 or if they'll put dinner on the table next week. Marvin is whining about missing cricket.
So never then. Great. We’ll eventually be allowed out to do all the shitty boring shit that has to be done to keep the country and economy going, but anything fun - you know, the stuff that makes life actually worth living - will be too risky and thus still banned.
God this fucking situation just keeps getting worse and worse. The whole fucking world is fucked and it’s never going to get better.
Or ...
You could change your perspective on what makes life worth living.
You could say that as a solution to anything. Brexit? Just change your perspective on it!
Host hat on
My hostly Geiger counter is ticking. Can I remind everyone that this is Purgatory and Purgatory guidelines apply. Please pay special attention to 1, 3 and 5. Personal attacks belong in Hell. Host hat off
BroJames Purgatory Host
How the fuck on earth did our race survive for millennia without professional sports? Scientists have no answer.
They sat around campfires holding ends of sticks in the fire and waved them around in the dark because it is fun1 until they accidentally burnt others2. Which led to sex and killing each other. Which pretty much summarizes sport.
1 Try it, it really is fun. Writing words and making patterns in the dark, that sort of thing. 2 Inevitable.
Did anyone watch the PBS documentary, "Blood Sugar Rising" about diabetes in America last night? It was horrific. The incident of both types are soaring, millions of people have had to have amputations, (compare to 2000 from the war.) The cost of a month's insulin has gone, in the last decade or so, from about $200 to $1300, and uninsured people are dying for lack of it, because Eli Lilly and a couple of other companies are greedy, shameless scumbags.
Now these diabetics are dying in droves from COVID-19. I couldn't sleep I was so mad.
More seriously, however hard we think we're finding it, there are always people who are getting it a lot worse. I wasn't present when my wife passed away, I arrived a few minutes later, but I'm grateful I was able to spend so much time with her before she died and it didn't come as a surprise. Not everyone has that opportunity. Not at the best of times and not now.
I have a garden. Many people live in flats. I have my daughter here with me. Other people are alone. I'd like to go to the pub, for a walk on the moors, to a concert or a poetry reading or ...
But big deal.
What about those carers in Marple near Stockport who have left their families at home and shut themselves into a care home to look after elderly and infirm people. They've been there for 4 weeks and are prepared to stay there for as long as it takes.
Let's get a sense of perspective here. I'm aiming that at me not trying to score points off anyone else.
Yes, I agree. It's looking like I've lost my job, but that newborn baby today lost her Mum, the nurse who came down with Covid. Some folks cancer treatment is on hold, and when it's not on hold again it may be too late. A lady was in the 'paper' today saying this has shat on her last chance at IVF. >100 dead Italian medics, and that priest who gave his ventilator to someone else. Lots of loss.
But when we feel sh**. No amount of reasoning and explanation helps. And this is the case for thousands of people right now.
Some people just feel tired and wonder how long this is going to take before it gets better. Others are plain not superheros who conquer the world on a regular basis. Yet others surprisingly fail to be able to elevate themselves by their bootstraps.
Knowing that Someone Else has it worse.....really doesn’t help matters.
Yup
Even in this situation.
Which is why people break curfew. Coz being apart from that which we need is tough. Really glad if ppl can cope. But some can’t. No coping is ok. Least last time I looked I thought it was.
Yes we are all in it together. But no, we most certainly are Not in it all together. Because together is what we cannot be right now.
Right now I m totally fed up with the news, can’t work out why I watch it, swear a lot then turn it off. We are either being lectured or hectored or shamed. Talked at, informed , invited,.....right now I get more sense from the birds in the trees.
Equally I am disinclined to be harried into an online extrovert-fest of positivity. And am avoiding all oozy encouraging memes (is that even the right word ?)
Coronivirus has bought out the very worst and the very best in all of us........
“Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani”,
“My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?”
The opening words of Psalm 22, which Matthew and Mark record as the dying words of Jesus, cried out in a loud voice from the cross.
In the previous few short hours Jesus had been deserted by all around him.
Judas, the man who he’d entrusted with the money that supported his ministry, had betrayed him for 30 pieces of silver.
Simon, who he’d called Peter, the rock on which his church would be founded, had denied knowing him, not once but three times.
The other disciples had fled and gone into hiding.
The crowd which had cheered his entry into Jerusalem a few days earlier had been turned into a mob baying for his blood.
Even the sun has ceased to shine as the land is plunged into darkness.
In the darkness, alone in his agony, from the hell that he finds himself in, he shouts his rant at the sky.
The rant of the psalmist. “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me? I cry out, but you do not answer me.”
The rant of countless people throughout history who have found themselves in hellish conditions, deserted and alone without apparent hope.
And, today we’ve spent weeks in lockdown, with no end in sight.
Weeks when we’ve been unable to see friends and family,
Weeks when we’ve been unable to meet together for worship,
weeks when we’ve struggled to keep social contacts,
weeks spent in fear that someone we love will not survive the pandemic,
weeks of worry about how to make ends meet,
weeks of uncertainty of employment.
For many, this is a form of hell from which they see no exit.
From this hell, we join with Jesus and scream our rant towards heaven … “My God, my God, why have you forsaken us?”
Take the thing that’s most important to you, and then go completely without it for at least three months, extending to an unspecified length of time in the future ...
OK, I will - my husband, who died six months ago. And the length of time I have to go without him isn't unspecified - it's for the rest of my life.
I have to keep telling myself that at least I was able to be by his side, and give him a proper funeral; and that my friends and relations were able to give me support, unlike so many of those who have lost their loved ones to Covid-19.
But when we feel sh**. No amount of reasoning and explanation helps. And this is the case for thousands of people right now.
....
Equally I am disinclined to be harried into an online extrovert-fest of positivity. And am avoiding all oozy encouraging memes (is that even the right word ?)
Coronivirus has bought out the very worst and the very best in all of us........
Absolutely agree. I'm not a natural optimist either, and my Facebook friends who are doing cutesy "quarantine challenges" of one kind or another are irritating the hell out of me. (If I could get within six feet of them, I might bite the next person who says something about gratitude.)
But... There's a big difference between a) having a good cry in the shower or a whine-fest with a friend, and b) demanding that everyone around you risk their lives because you don't want to be cooped up for what will certainly be a finite period of time.
Absolutely agree. I'm not a natural optimist either, and my Facebook friends who are doing cutesy "quarantine challenges" of one kind or another are irritating the hell out of me.
Realistically, most of us are going to be spending as much time as we normally would simply sustaining daily life - and those with kids are going to be spending even more. I can see why some people might want to celebrate achievements to give some buzz to existence, but I'll settle for equanimity and not assume I can learn Mandarin or a musical instrument or something or that the time is 'wasted' if I don't.
Realistically, most of us are going to be spending as much time as we normally would simply sustaining daily life - and those with kids are going to be spending even more. I can see why some people might want to celebrate achievements to give some buzz to existence, but I'll settle for equanimity and not assume I can learn Mandarin or a musical instrument or something or that the time is 'wasted' if I don't.
I'm trying to supervise my kid's schoolwork and do my own work from home at the same time... our "quarantine challenge" will be making it through a full 24 hours without either of us bursting into tears over Google Classroom!! I am mystified by the people who seem to have energy to spend on special projects. But here we all are. We have two salaries coming in and food on the table. Better off than, at minimum, 12 million of my fellow citizens.
Lockdown is a crucible, where everything is more intense. But loosening up the lockdown if there isn't enough testing is bad idea. Lessons from Japan.
"The key lesson" he says "is even if you are successful in containment locally but there is transmission going on in other parts of the country, as long as people are moving around, it's difficult to maintain a virus-free status".
"Lockdown." Sounds like you are in prison. I prefer "Stay at Home." I am finding an infinite number of projects I have been doing while staying at home. For instance, I dug up a weed patch that I have been putting off tackling for 28 years. Just saying...
Forgive me if this has been posted before, I may have missed it. But I am most impressed by this remarkable broadcast by Angela Merkel. As an illustration of what leadership in this crisis looks like, it would be very hard to beat. The link comes with subtitles, and it is about 20 minutes long. But I do not believe it will waste your time. Scroll down to the video link.
@Marvin the Martian has been whinging about shelter-in-place orders since this whole thing became an issue. (Hint: He's against them.) These posts are from the beginning of the crisis.
Now he's saying that it's okay if other people die so that he doesn't have to miss out on playing cricket.
As one of the people he's so blithely condemned to a horrible death, I have to say that I disagree with him. (I used to be married to a disciple of Ayn Rand, and I thought he was pretty selfish - but compared to Marvin, he was the absolute soul of generosity. Well, it's all relative.)
Ross
Marvin the Martian wrote: »
I am in an at-risk group due to a preexisting respiratory condition. All this banning of social interaction and events is being done to protect me.
Bear that in mind when I say that I would much rather take my chances with the virus than cancel my entire life for an unspecified amount of time. Some things are more important than the mere perpetuation of biological functions. What’s the point of saving my life if I have to destroy my life to do it?
Marvin the Martian wrote: »
OK, let me put it like this. If putting the whole country into lockdown for a year would only save one life then, however tragic it would be for that one person and their loved ones, nobody would seriously suggest we should do it. It would be widely understood that the cure was worse than the disease for society as a whole.
By the same token, if everybody was going to die unless the whole country went into lockdown for a day then nobody would argue against doing it.
We are currently somewhere in between those two extremes. Are we somewhere where the balance tips towards the cure being worse than the disease for society as a whole or not? I think we are.
List of countries with at least 5,000 known COVID-19 cases.
United States - 678,144 (585,659 / 57,844 / 34,641)
Spain - 184,948 (90,836 / 74,797 / 19,315)
Italy - 168,941 (106,607 / 40,164 / 22,170)
France - 165,027 (114,295 / 32,812 / 17,920)
Germany - 137,698 (56,646 / 77,000 / 4,052)
United Kingdom - 103,093 (89,020 / 344 / 13,729)
China - 82,367 (1,081 / 77,944 / 3,342) 4.1%
Iran - 77,995 (20,897 / 52,229 / 4,869) 8.5%
Turkey - 74,193 (65,461 / 7,089 / 1,643)
Belgium - 34,809 (22,390 / 7,562 / 4,857)
Brazil - 30,683 (14,710 / 14,026 / 1,947)
Canada - 30,106 (19,182 / 9,729 / 1,195)
Netherlands - 29,214 (25,649 / 250 / 3,315)
Russia - 27,938 (25,402 / 2,304 / 232)
Switzerland - 26,732 (9,551 / 15,900 / 1,281)
Portugal - 18,841 (17,719 / 493 / 629)
Austria - 14,476 (5,080 / 8,986 / 410)
India - 13,430 (11,214 / 1,768 / 448)
Ireland - 13,271 (12,708 / 77 / 486)
Israel - 12,758 (9,798 / 2,818 / 142)
Sweden - 12,540 (10,657 / 550 / 1,333)
Peru - 12,491 (6,097 / 6,120 / 274)
South Korea - 10,635 (2,576 / 7,829 / 230) 2.9%
Japan - 9,231 (8,106 / 935 / 190)
Chile - 8,807 (5,403 / 3,299 / 105)
Ecuador - 8,225 (6,984 / 838 / 403)
Poland - 7,918 (6,830 / 774 / 314)
Romania - 7,707 (5,958 / 1,357 / 392)
Pakistan - 6,919 (5,146 / 1,645 / 128)
Norway - 6,905 (6,721 / 32 / 152)
Denmark - 6,879 (3,535 / 3,023 / 321)
Australia - 6,468 (2,658 / 3,747 / 63)
Czechia - 6,433 (5,292 / 972 / 169)
Saudi Arabia - 6,380 (5,307 / 990 / 83)
Mexico - 6,297 (3,686 / 2,125 / 486)
United Arab Emirates - 5,825 (4,695 / 1,095 / 35)
Philippines - 5,660 (4,863 / 435 / 362)
Indonesia - 5,516 (4,472 / 548 / 496)
Serbia - 5,318 (4,772 / 443 / 103)
Malaysia - 5,182 (2,332 / 2,766 / 84)
The listings are in the format:
X. Country - [# of known cases] ([active] / [recovered] / [dead]) [%fatality rate]
Fatality rates are only listed for countries where the number of resolved cases (recovered + dead) exceeds the number of known active cases by a ratio of at least 2:1. Italics indicate authoritarian countries whose official statistics are suspect. Other country's statistics are suspect if their testing regimes are substandard.
If American states were treated as individual countries twenty-one of them would be on that list. New York would be ranked at #2, between "everywhere in the U.S. except New York" (#1) and Spain (#3). New Jersey would be between Iran and Turkey.
I would challenge that @Marvin the Martian is being shielded for health reasons due to asthma. Although asthma is on the list of vulnerabilities along with severe COPD and cystic fibrosis, the official guidance (link) only lists severe asthma, which is defined as asthma that does not improve with medication. Although I'm asthmatic, my asthma is mostly managed by medication and I am not on the list.
Another category of people to be shielded are the immuno-suppressed and again that is specific, my daughter takes a Leukotriene receptor antagonist and is not shielded, but friends taking cortico-steroids, which my daughter was taking last year, are shielded.
I would also point out that there are many, many people living lives as constrained as everyone's lives under lock down have become all the time. When lock down ends, they will continue living like this, as that's what their lives have become through disability or chronic illness. For them, these lock down restrictions really are forever.
I cannot walk on the mountains.
I can't play face to face RPGs.
The only way I'll get to see my father in his care home is if he's dying.
It sucks for everyone. Cricket isn't more special than all these other privations.
But it means, for example, that at the end of this there should still be a father to visit.
Pretty much. My almost 4 year old is imagining her cousin and her friends from nursery because she doesn't have anyone to play with. I likely won't see my family this year because their holiday up here is cancelled and ours down there may be off the cards too. Exams being cancelled has left a large hole in my finances (~ a month's pay). My grandparents are shut up in a care home and can't have visitors, and are too far gone hearing and mind wise to cope with phone calls or technology. I have friends with respiratory issues who will likely die if they catch it.
All of this is shitty. Not nearly as shitty as half a million to a million dead as a result of letting this thing run wild.
A reminder of an earlier Host post. There is a thread in All Saints entitled Coping in the time of COVID-19 which is the right place for sharing personal stuff.
It is legitimate on this thread to discuss both the protective benefits and the economic and social consequences of lockdowns. Sharing of personal difficulties and inconveniences belong in All Saints.
On reflection, the whole cricket tangent would have been better started in All Saints. Reinforcing BroJames ruling, the pissed off responses to that tangent here belong in the forum for being pissed off with Shipmates, namely Hell. Let me spell out the difference. 'That is a stupid post' is an allowable criticism in Purgatory. 'I am pissed off with you for making such a self centred insensitive post' belongs in Hell.
Without anything enjoyable to do lockdown may as well be death, philosophically speaking of course.
And you absolutely have the right to your feelings. Full stop.
But...IMHO...most people under lockdown for the virus have similar feelings. Most of us are missing something. And/or wrestling with depression, anxiety, fear, financial worries, being stuck with people OR being stuck alone, etc. And/or basic survival: getting food, getting meds, trying not to get infected, trying to be safe in other ways. And/or dealing with boredom; climbing the walls; missing their favorite sports, theatrical performances, movies, sit-down meals at restaurants. Dealing with degrees of claustrophobia.
I've got my own stuff to deal with. Plus worries about the crisis that I somehow managed to mostly block, until a few days ago. (Trying to build the block back up.) Plus minor panic attacks, because wi-fi was unavailable for about 24 hrs. I depend on the Web for a lot, even without this crisis--which has about quadrupled my actual need for it: getting grocery staples by mail, etc. Normally, most of my contact with other humans is online--more so, with this crisis.
FWIW: you sound dangerously bored. Many people are finding ways to do fun, silly, interesting things. Doing online volunteering. Etc. Maybe you could check out what other people are people are doing, and get inspiration of your own?
But... There's a big difference between a) having a good cry in the shower or a whine-fest with a friend, and b) demanding that everyone around you risk their lives because you don't want to be cooped up for what will certainly be a finite period of time.
You could say that as a solution to anything. Brexit? Just change your perspective on it!
That’s not what I meant at all.
The situation is shittier than shitty. Especially for the people we’ve mentioned above. Slowly drowning, alone, is one of the worst deaths imaginable. Knowing your loved one is drowning alone is one one of anyone’s worst nightmares. Being a 25 year old nurse seeing this day after day is the reality of my best friend’s daughter.
But, at the same time, she is counting her blessings. Her perspective is changed. Reality is horrendous for her just now.
So she enjoys the small things - the cupcakes her Mum sends into work for the nurses. A long walk on her day off, and many other things she’s talked to me about. Her once-in-a-lifetime holiday next week is cancelled, so she’s looking forward to it, hopefully, next year.
She’ll never see life the same again. Being on the front line does that to you.
But we can all decide to change our perspective on our own situations.
See the four walls as not a prison, but a sanctuary.
Enjoy the small things - the enhanced birdsong due to lack of traffic etc
When I had a big operation and was laid up for months I learned to enjoy just watching the birds outside the window.
In Purgatory we might be able to have a "proper debate" (sic) about just how much deprivation might mean life, in general, was no longer life in any meaningful sense of the term. If we all behave as responsible posters.
However, Purgatory is not the place for personal rants. Neither is it the place to respond to personal rants, either by ranting back or by proffering tailored advice. Don't take the bait.
If people want general ideas for coping in their personal circumstances, go to All Saints. If people want to rant about not coping, go rant in Hell and take the consequences.
If people feel they need more than general advice on coping, get off this forum and seek professional help.
And no speculating, anywhere, about Shipmates' health conditions and what their real-life consequences might be.
Crisis circumstances don't mean we've torn up the 10Cs, the FAQs, or the Guidelines.
The key going forward will be the government's response. If they revert to type, we're very screwed. If they support the economy, then a sharp recovery is possible because the underlying production potential of the economy will be essentially unchanged. This is a vital point because unemployment and home losses cost far, far more in the long term than the cost of government borrowing. Especially when government borrowing is effectively at negative interest rates and the BoE is able to print money without generating inflation.
I also think we might see a productivity boost in the medium term as businesses learn how much remote working is possible...
Sadly the challenge to the UK is far more political than economic and the idiots in charge lead me to despair. Oh for competent leadership.
I think it is of course important to consider the longterm impact on mental health of this situation - not simply the fact of being isolated (to the various levels that each of us are), but also the wider awareness of the existence of this virus and the impact it is having on the world, the awareness that when you go for a walk, you need to avoid people, that the people around you could potentially kill you, or you them. And survival worries of getting food, and financial difficulties. Something that strikes me is how confusing this must be for little children, for instance, when you pass them in the street, and step away, giving a wide berth, as if they have cooties - I have observed kids, walking with their mothers, giggle in a bit of a confused/nervous way as I step away, and I wonder about the longterm impact to have such a strange situation so early in their life.
To me, it is all this wider awareness and impact that makes this different from being at home due to chronic illness (which I have also experienced, for a few months, and I agree there are also similarities). I was chatting about this to a friend with chronic illness who has been housebound for a few years, and she said the same - with normal staying at home, you still hear the voices of others outside, the sound of life going on, rather than this silence and awareness that something serious and life-threatening is affecting the world.
I do think that it is incredibly important that we do keep to social distancing, as the alternative is far worse, but of course it's not a simple case of 'Oh, we're all so lucky we're staying home, safe and cosy.' And the impact depends on so many things - whether one lives alone or with others, and for those who live with others, whether it is a friendly/loving relationship, or at the other extreme an abusive relationship. People in poverty, people with mental health issues, single parents, etc. Personally, I think it's important to have an awareness of all this, and the post traumatic stress effects that will happen after quarantine is over. But equally, when people are doing 'cutesy quarantine challenges,' I don't think that is being a naive optimist, but more some people's way of staying sane. And also a way to cheer people up - a way of connecting with people in any way possible, to try to hang on to some sense of normal. I have friends who feel like they are falling apart, and are doing fun challenges as a distraction.
Sadly the challenge to the UK is far more political than economic and the idiots in charge lead me to despair. Oh for competent leadership.
I think a slightly more refined version of this criticism is the phenomenon of "functional stupidity" referred to in this quite interesting article
organisations often hire clever and talented people, but then create cultures and decision-making processes that do not encourage them to raise concerns or make suggestions. Instead, everyone is encouraged to emphasise positive interpretations of events, leading to “self-reinforcing stupidity”
Some political (and other) cultures may be more susceptible to this than others, but I think the real challenge is in spotting such 'functional stupidity' irrespective of political hues, and enacting the relevant organisational change.
Forgive me if this has been posted before, I may have missed it. But I am most impressed by this remarkable broadcast by Angela Merkel. As an illustration of what leadership in this crisis looks like, it would be very hard to beat. The link comes with subtitles, and it is about 20 minutes long. But I do not believe it will waste your time. Scroll down to the video link.
I have long been impressed by Kanzellerin Merkel. Now I'm wishing she were eligible to be the U.S. president. Thank you for posting that.
On the one hand you need a political culture that rewards that kind of thinking at the lower levels of government and a media and public that can appreciate it to end up with those kinds of people in power.
On the other; she isn't going to do an explainer on how German policy on trade and the Euro exacerbated the financial crisis and led to the austerity that degraded the health services on the periphery, so clearly there are also limits to the German system.
Comments
Yes, lockdown is shit. Social distance is shit. Missing out on a year of summer sports is shit. And yes - some people will be affected more than other people. For some people, lockdown isn't too much of an imposition. For others, it means missing out on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. That sucks.
Nobody is saying that lockdown isn't bad. We are saying that it is better than 100,000 extra dead people. And we are saying that while some of our fellow humans are putting themselves at extra risk (because they're hospital workers, or grocery store workers, or somebody else that we need to keep working or everything breaks) then the least the rest of us can do to support them is to not put them and their families at extra risk. Which means staying home.
I will too -- but with extreme caution.
This. This right here, except many are making far more sacrifices. Some people are putting their lives on the line. Others don't know how they'll pay rent on May 1 or if they'll put dinner on the table next week. Marvin is whining about missing cricket.
xkcd provides.
You could say that as a solution to anything. Brexit? Just change your perspective on it!
My hostly Geiger counter is ticking. Can I remind everyone that this is Purgatory and Purgatory guidelines apply. Please pay special attention to 1, 3 and 5. Personal attacks belong in Hell.
Host hat off
BroJames Purgatory Host
Alcohol?
They sat around campfires holding ends of sticks in the fire and waved them around in the dark because it is fun1 until they accidentally burnt others2. Which led to sex and killing each other. Which pretty much summarizes sport.
1 Try it, it really is fun. Writing words and making patterns in the dark, that sort of thing.
2 Inevitable.
Sometimes sex leads to burning.
Now these diabetics are dying in droves from COVID-19. I couldn't sleep I was so mad.
Ahhh, Paul again, it's scripture so I have to accept it, but...
More seriously, however hard we think we're finding it, there are always people who are getting it a lot worse. I wasn't present when my wife passed away, I arrived a few minutes later, but I'm grateful I was able to spend so much time with her before she died and it didn't come as a surprise. Not everyone has that opportunity. Not at the best of times and not now.
I have a garden. Many people live in flats. I have my daughter here with me. Other people are alone. I'd like to go to the pub, for a walk on the moors, to a concert or a poetry reading or ...
But big deal.
What about those carers in Marple near Stockport who have left their families at home and shut themselves into a care home to look after elderly and infirm people. They've been there for 4 weeks and are prepared to stay there for as long as it takes.
Let's get a sense of perspective here. I'm aiming that at me not trying to score points off anyone else.
Some people just feel tired and wonder how long this is going to take before it gets better. Others are plain not superheros who conquer the world on a regular basis. Yet others surprisingly fail to be able to elevate themselves by their bootstraps.
Knowing that Someone Else has it worse.....really doesn’t help matters.
Yup
Even in this situation.
Which is why people break curfew. Coz being apart from that which we need is tough. Really glad if ppl can cope. But some can’t. No coping is ok. Least last time I looked I thought it was.
Yes we are all in it together. But no, we most certainly are Not in it all together. Because together is what we cannot be right now.
Right now I m totally fed up with the news, can’t work out why I watch it, swear a lot then turn it off. We are either being lectured or hectored or shamed. Talked at, informed , invited,.....right now I get more sense from the birds in the trees.
Equally I am disinclined to be harried into an online extrovert-fest of positivity. And am avoiding all oozy encouraging memes (is that even the right word ?)
Coronivirus has bought out the very worst and the very best in all of us........
One could move to Florida ...
https://www.chron.com/news/article/Pro-wrestling-essential-under-Florida-15200327.php
https://www.chron.com/news/article/Pro-wrestling-essential-under-Florida-15200327.php
I have to keep telling myself that at least I was able to be by his side, and give him a proper funeral; and that my friends and relations were able to give me support, unlike so many of those who have lost their loved ones to Covid-19.
Absolutely agree. I'm not a natural optimist either, and my Facebook friends who are doing cutesy "quarantine challenges" of one kind or another are irritating the hell out of me. (If I could get within six feet of them, I might bite the next person who says something about gratitude.)
But... There's a big difference between a) having a good cry in the shower or a whine-fest with a friend, and b) demanding that everyone around you risk their lives because you don't want to be cooped up for what will certainly be a finite period of time.
Realistically, most of us are going to be spending as much time as we normally would simply sustaining daily life - and those with kids are going to be spending even more. I can see why some people might want to celebrate achievements to give some buzz to existence, but I'll settle for equanimity and not assume I can learn Mandarin or a musical instrument or something or that the time is 'wasted' if I don't.
I'm trying to supervise my kid's schoolwork and do my own work from home at the same time... our "quarantine challenge" will be making it through a full 24 hours without either of us bursting into tears over Google Classroom!! I am mystified by the people who seem to have energy to spend on special projects. But here we all are. We have two salaries coming in and food on the table. Better off than, at minimum, 12 million of my fellow citizens.
There's no easy way out. Of lockdown.
I'm afraid I find that morally appalling.
@Marvin the Martian has been whinging about shelter-in-place orders since this whole thing became an issue. (Hint: He's against them.) These posts are from the beginning of the crisis.
Now he's saying that it's okay if other people die so that he doesn't have to miss out on playing cricket.
As one of the people he's so blithely condemned to a horrible death, I have to say that I disagree with him. (I used to be married to a disciple of Ayn Rand, and I thought he was pretty selfish - but compared to Marvin, he was the absolute soul of generosity. Well, it's all relative.)
Ross
Marvin the Martian wrote: »
The listings are in the format:
X. Country - [# of known cases] ([active] / [recovered] / [dead]) [%fatality rate]
Fatality rates are only listed for countries where the number of resolved cases (recovered + dead) exceeds the number of known active cases by a ratio of at least 2:1. Italics indicate authoritarian countries whose official statistics are suspect. Other country's statistics are suspect if their testing regimes are substandard.
If American states were treated as individual countries twenty-one of them would be on that list. New York would be ranked at #2, between "everywhere in the U.S. except New York" (#1) and Spain (#3). New Jersey would be between Iran and Turkey.
Serbia has been added to the list since the last compilation.
I can't play face to face RPGs.
The only way I'll get to see my father in his care home is if he's dying.
It sucks for everyone. Cricket isn't more special than all these other privations.
But it means, for example, that at the end of this there should still be a father to visit.
Another category of people to be shielded are the immuno-suppressed and again that is specific, my daughter takes a Leukotriene receptor antagonist and is not shielded, but friends taking cortico-steroids, which my daughter was taking last year, are shielded.
I would also point out that there are many, many people living lives as constrained as everyone's lives under lock down have become all the time. When lock down ends, they will continue living like this, as that's what their lives have become through disability or chronic illness. For them, these lock down restrictions really are forever.
Pretty much. My almost 4 year old is imagining her cousin and her friends from nursery because she doesn't have anyone to play with. I likely won't see my family this year because their holiday up here is cancelled and ours down there may be off the cards too. Exams being cancelled has left a large hole in my finances (~ a month's pay). My grandparents are shut up in a care home and can't have visitors, and are too far gone hearing and mind wise to cope with phone calls or technology. I have friends with respiratory issues who will likely die if they catch it.
All of this is shitty. Not nearly as shitty as half a million to a million dead as a result of letting this thing run wild.
A reminder of an earlier Host post. There is a thread in All Saints entitled Coping in the time of COVID-19 which is the right place for sharing personal stuff.
It is legitimate on this thread to discuss both the protective benefits and the economic and social consequences of lockdowns. Sharing of personal difficulties and inconveniences belong in All Saints.
On reflection, the whole cricket tangent would have been better started in All Saints. Reinforcing BroJames ruling, the pissed off responses to that tangent here belong in the forum for being pissed off with Shipmates, namely Hell. Let me spell out the difference. 'That is a stupid post' is an allowable criticism in Purgatory. 'I am pissed off with you for making such a self centred insensitive post' belongs in Hell.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
Host Hat Off
And you absolutely have the right to your feelings. Full stop.
But...IMHO...most people under lockdown for the virus have similar feelings. Most of us are missing something. And/or wrestling with depression, anxiety, fear, financial worries, being stuck with people OR being stuck alone, etc. And/or basic survival: getting food, getting meds, trying not to get infected, trying to be safe in other ways. And/or dealing with boredom; climbing the walls; missing their favorite sports, theatrical performances, movies, sit-down meals at restaurants. Dealing with degrees of claustrophobia.
I've got my own stuff to deal with. Plus worries about the crisis that I somehow managed to mostly block, until a few days ago. (Trying to build the block back up.) Plus minor panic attacks, because wi-fi was unavailable for about 24 hrs. I depend on the Web for a lot, even without this crisis--which has about quadrupled my actual need for it: getting grocery staples by mail, etc. Normally, most of my contact with other humans is online--more so, with this crisis.
FWIW: you sound dangerously bored. Many people are finding ways to do fun, silly, interesting things. Doing online volunteering. Etc. Maybe you could check out what other people are people are doing, and get inspiration of your own?
Try this search, for a start: "what are people doing during quarantine" (Duck Duck Go).
Best of luck!
Other Shipmates are reminded that ignoring Host rulings can get you a reference to Admin under Commandment 6.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
Exactly.
@Marvin the Martian said -
That’s not what I meant at all.
The situation is shittier than shitty. Especially for the people we’ve mentioned above. Slowly drowning, alone, is one of the worst deaths imaginable. Knowing your loved one is drowning alone is one one of anyone’s worst nightmares. Being a 25 year old nurse seeing this day after day is the reality of my best friend’s daughter.
But, at the same time, she is counting her blessings. Her perspective is changed. Reality is horrendous for her just now.
So she enjoys the small things - the cupcakes her Mum sends into work for the nurses. A long walk on her day off, and many other things she’s talked to me about. Her once-in-a-lifetime holiday next week is cancelled, so she’s looking forward to it, hopefully, next year.
She’ll never see life the same again. Being on the front line does that to you.
But we can all decide to change our perspective on our own situations.
See the four walls as not a prison, but a sanctuary.
Enjoy the small things - the enhanced birdsong due to lack of traffic etc
When I had a big operation and was laid up for months I learned to enjoy just watching the birds outside the window.
Changing perspective isn’t denying reality.
Apparently this needs spelling out.
In Purgatory we might be able to have a "proper debate" (sic) about just how much deprivation might mean life, in general, was no longer life in any meaningful sense of the term. If we all behave as responsible posters.
However, Purgatory is not the place for personal rants. Neither is it the place to respond to personal rants, either by ranting back or by proffering tailored advice. Don't take the bait.
If people want general ideas for coping in their personal circumstances, go to All Saints. If people want to rant about not coping, go rant in Hell and take the consequences.
If people feel they need more than general advice on coping, get off this forum and seek professional help.
And no speculating, anywhere, about Shipmates' health conditions and what their real-life consequences might be.
Crisis circumstances don't mean we've torn up the 10Cs, the FAQs, or the Guidelines.
/admin mode
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-economic-and-political-effects-of.html
The key going forward will be the government's response. If they revert to type, we're very screwed. If they support the economy, then a sharp recovery is possible because the underlying production potential of the economy will be essentially unchanged. This is a vital point because unemployment and home losses cost far, far more in the long term than the cost of government borrowing. Especially when government borrowing is effectively at negative interest rates and the BoE is able to print money without generating inflation.
I also think we might see a productivity boost in the medium term as businesses learn how much remote working is possible...
Sadly the challenge to the UK is far more political than economic and the idiots in charge lead me to despair. Oh for competent leadership.
AFZ
To me, it is all this wider awareness and impact that makes this different from being at home due to chronic illness (which I have also experienced, for a few months, and I agree there are also similarities). I was chatting about this to a friend with chronic illness who has been housebound for a few years, and she said the same - with normal staying at home, you still hear the voices of others outside, the sound of life going on, rather than this silence and awareness that something serious and life-threatening is affecting the world.
I do think that it is incredibly important that we do keep to social distancing, as the alternative is far worse, but of course it's not a simple case of 'Oh, we're all so lucky we're staying home, safe and cosy.' And the impact depends on so many things - whether one lives alone or with others, and for those who live with others, whether it is a friendly/loving relationship, or at the other extreme an abusive relationship. People in poverty, people with mental health issues, single parents, etc. Personally, I think it's important to have an awareness of all this, and the post traumatic stress effects that will happen after quarantine is over. But equally, when people are doing 'cutesy quarantine challenges,' I don't think that is being a naive optimist, but more some people's way of staying sane. And also a way to cheer people up - a way of connecting with people in any way possible, to try to hang on to some sense of normal. I have friends who feel like they are falling apart, and are doing fun challenges as a distraction.
Some political (and other) cultures may be more susceptible to this than others, but I think the real challenge is in spotting such 'functional stupidity' irrespective of political hues, and enacting the relevant organisational change.
On the one hand you need a political culture that rewards that kind of thinking at the lower levels of government and a media and public that can appreciate it to end up with those kinds of people in power.
On the other; she isn't going to do an explainer on how German policy on trade and the Euro exacerbated the financial crisis and led to the austerity that degraded the health services on the periphery, so clearly there are also limits to the German system.