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Purgatory : Racism in our family, now what?
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
I am almost certain that I am Not the only one here who has blatantly racist family or extended family members.
Not talking about Great Uncle George who is 98yrs old. Not talking someone who (for whatever reason ) does not really understand.
I m talking about Is A Racist. Uses racist language casually and regularly.
My question is, how do you cope?
Where are the lines drawn?
Not talking about Great Uncle George who is 98yrs old. Not talking someone who (for whatever reason ) does not really understand.
I m talking about Is A Racist. Uses racist language casually and regularly.
My question is, how do you cope?
Where are the lines drawn?
Comments
The uk has people who hold Blatant racist opinions.
I have some of those people in my family.
What can I do about it?
Literally, what?
(Beyond weep)
This plague has ripped our extended family apart and to be clear these are not unintelligent people.
Or do you mean only the "over here taking our jobs" sort of grumble ?
Or the continued use of terms which were once used as neutral descriptors but are now considered derogatory ?
And
some very blatant crude Not At All neutral descriptors .....of the type that even in my rural out in the sticks 1970s classroom would have ended with a ruler to the hand followed by a trip to the headteacher.
I guess I m here and nowhere else coz I m all cussed out and sympathy only goes so far.
Can and do people change from racist identity? I presume that we as a country want this?
I get the outrage. I really do. On so many counts I get the outrage.
But is the answer lock em up and throw away the key?
Or is there another answer?
& If so, what is it?
I think countering the racism with reality can help some people. Making it clear you do not share their belief is a start and is something that can be done gently in situations one mightn't feel comfortable being more confrontational. Silence is complicity, but shouting isn't necessarily productive.
The fuck it isn't. Silence allows the racists to think that people agree with them.
But if someone makes a plain racist comment, unless they get a negative reaction, they are likely to consider the silence as agreement. They'll almost definitely not consider it as disagreement or resistance.
It mightn't be comfortable, but it is the truth.
I'm not sure I have great advice, but I'd say something like the following:
1. If you have kids, it is not OK for racist relatives to use that sort of language or stereotype around your kids. Just tell them straight. If they can't manage that, they don't get to see your kids - end of discussion.
2. Call them on it. Every time, if you feel strong enough. Just a quiet "that's pretty racist" or whatever helps. Get the rest of your family to call them on it.
3. Ask them to justify themselves. When they say something negative about $OFFENSIVE_RACIAL_EPITHET, ask them what they have against whatever the normal, respectful name for the group of people identified is. And then explain why they're wrong (because you know they are.) If it helps to point out members of that group that don't conform to $OFFENSIVE_STEREOTYPE, then do so. If they start off thinking that all X are bad, then "he's one of the good ones" is an improvement, even though it's still very racist. But it could be the first step on the path.
4. Tell them you're open to rational, civil discussion, if they need help understanding things like BLM protests.
I think people can learn. Nobody is born a racist - racism is something that we learn from our society, and those around us. It follows that people can un-learn racism. It's hard work, retraining instincts you've spent years honing, but it can be done.
Bollocks.
@lilbuddha , I now have rules before some people come over! They break those rules- they leave. So far we are a couple of years in without incident.....which is a massive step forward. But it has taken a long time and a lot of talking.
We can choose our friends and thank God for that! But family?
We are stuck with them.
Or not.
For some in my family, it is an ask too far to even be in the same room.
And then the ‘silence is complicity ‘ ( or not) thing. Strong feelings on both sides!
I suspect the situations thought of , decided the outcome?
As in , what one might say with our cousins while watching telly is going to differ from our reply when we are a guest at a formal wedding.....
We will always will always notice differences. The ideal state is to not overlay negative characteristics on those differences.
In the high school class ahead of mine was an African-American young man who was very tall, very burly . . . and very black! He was also very popular with his classmates. We all called him Lumumba (after Patrice Lumumba, who was instrumental in gaining independence for the Belgian Congo) and no one thought anything of it.
That young man was none other than this person.
I also think I'm a racist. Beating one of my drums, I think all Europeans and their exports have to guard against their own racism. I think that if everyone could look within themselves and their experiences and acknowledge their own racism we would be a very long way towards the ideal Stercus Tauri talks about.
I come from a long line of racists. Me and my siblings challenge my Mum when she is racist. My sister and I used to challenge my Dad about it too. He was particularly bad at the footy. However, criticism and challenge didn't work on my father. He started calling out racist stuff deliberately to provoke a response from us. He'd look at us and giggle.
Some of my cousins are racists, as are some of my uncles and aunts. But some are not. One family of cousins had an uncle who worked in the PNG highlands and they did alot of work raising funds for the missions. They would go up there for holidays, and one of my cousins fell in love with a girl up there. They married and now live on New Britain, an island off the coast of PNG. They have many children. He is a carpenter, and has turned himself into a builder of boats.
My best friend's brother has started posting some really nasty racist stuff on facebook. He seems to be a fan of Anne Marie Waters and the political party For Britain. I don't respond.
Some of my work colleagues are racist. I have exchanged views with them and we agree to disagree.
If we allow any breaks for anything we simply collude in the abuse. Family member or not, old or young, they come quickly to understand the fact I believe their attitude/behaviour to be wrong.
I was merely countering your empty assertion.
BTW they consider us right-wing, they're Corbyn supporting members of the LP, so it isn't a clear-cut political thing.
talk about having a 'chinky'. This would mean a takeaway meal from a Chinese restaurant.
I know that this meant that they were familiar with this type of restaurant and rather liked it and certainly felt comfortable with it. Is it however racist ?
If it is racist what is the difference in mentioning 'Italian' icecream ?
If it is racist would it be okay to say that one had gone for a 'Chinese' ?
I suppose what you have to ask yourself is: if a Chinese acquaintance was in earshot would you feel comfortable using that kind of language (obviously this only works for those who have a sense of embarrassment when it comes to racism but I'm reasonably sure that includes most folk here)?
Consider that "Italian" corresponds with "Chinese". "Chinky" corresponds with "Wop" or, at best, "Eyetie".
Knowing your very broad definition of anti-semitism, I think it's necessary to ask what this "casual anti-semitism" consists of.
As to the BTW, they're not wrong at least so far as I can see from your posts on the ship.
The first term is and always was adjectival of a racist slur, applied to eyes. The fact that it was used 'innocently' is no longer an excuse. Neither is it in the same category, nor never was, as the latter two separate categories. Do you need any more painful elaboration of the obvious?
As an adolescent I was sickeningly, criminally racist. I can't believe I was that person. During that time I brainwashed myself in to a racist cult. That was progress...
Now I would ask would the people who used the word 'chinky' have been better not to patronise the Chinese takeaway. .For the people I was talking about the 'chinky' meal was a treat which they obviously looked forward to.
God bless your certainty .
I also sincerely hope that your extended family are able to enjoy those life events and social gatherings that make for extended family life.
Some of us lesser mortals struggle with these situations.
So an “I don’t respond to their face book messages” is a helpful starting point. That might seem obvious to some folk, not so to others.
For some, there is an expectation that family members (in our increasingly scattered way of life) keep in touch via social media.
It seems to me.... that way is fraught with chaos.
Or is it only me????
For if .... as families and as individuals ....we cannot reflect soberly on our own family experiences and try to work out how to change our own families....... how is our society meant to?
Which brings up the question of the extent to which our cultures appropriate selected items from other cultures and attach national or ethnic labels to them. In food, we have in addition to 'Chinese', 'Indian' (often derived from dishes originating in Pakistan, Bangladesh and other places outside India), 'Italian' and don't get me started on what passes for sushi in many 'Japanese' restaurants. Is taking someone else's culture, mucking it around and serving it up as something that it isn't racist in it's own right?
Given that I am dealing with overtly racist sentiments and opinions expressed by my parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, workmates, and relatives of friends, can I forget about going and finding things that are possibly racist because they amount to cultural appropriation?
Sorry Alan. But really, mate. Let's get to point A before we have a go at point F or G.
Oh God, I just remembered my conservative American family.
On the other hand I have massive difficulties with people who speak differently. That may boil down to 'I can't be bothered to make the effort to understand you' (includes Glaswegians as well as let's say Indians) but also include 'if you are a 2nd/3rd generation immigrant and have decided not to sound like an ordinary English person, then you are excluding yourself and I will honour your choice'.
And culture + religion is an even bigger minefield. I once quoted a teaching from the Koran that doesn't accord with liberal western 21stC values and I was told I was a racist and worse.
It can be an important message to those at points A and B to be seen tackling points F and G. Asking "shall we get dinner from the Cantonese style or Vietnamese style restaurant?" may be a witness to someone who calls them all "chinks" that you respect the differences between these communities.
And yes, the people concerned I do wish to have a relationship with, but to be clear were they not family there would be no point.
No point because they Do understand what they do. There is zero excuse.
Sigh,
“ usual rules apply: no politics, no racism , no homophobia, you know the score”
Literally has to be laid down.
I love these people, they are my family but by heck I m almost out of hope
That's a bit of an unfair distinction as most of the dishes (and some of the restaurants) date from before partition.
Maybe we need to come up with a suitable term for distinct cuisines that are inspired by the food in a particular country or region but have evolved substantially from it. Shame Indo-European already means something different .
&
@Alan Cresswell s well made point about how I refer to a take away is helpful.
I can just imagine that there might be rolling of eyes at that. But please, we do not all live in the land called certainty .
As a society we Have to change.
Those changes affect us in our family......and friendships too. There has to be space for people to tentatively try out new ways, ask questions , check that wording is right , check in and seek reflections on our own attitudes.
So a ffs automatic reaction is not at all helpful to us lesser mortals, who have Not managed to know all things and seemlessly transition into paragons of virtue.
Who else here ( however long ago it was, before your currently enlightened status) has attended a diversity training event and been shocked to discover that all is not well in our own internal world....????
I've actually had very little by way of diversity training.