Pretty undistinguished RC music at the church we visited this morning accompanied by an average strumming guitarist and a good alto recorder player.
The plus was that it was in a medieval church that is shared by the Church in Wales and the RCs. The chancel really didnt have enough space for the Eucharist to be celebrated easily. It was re-ordered in the 19th century when the pulpit was evidently seen as the main attraction and the altar and the space around it behind the rails was minimal. It being in Wales there was ample space for a choir in the choir stalls. It is listed Grade 1, so they are pretty well stuck with the arrangement - and any alterations would need sensitive discussions between the members of each church. As congregations age and decline I can see this arrangement becoming more common. Not a bad thing in my view.
I'm not sure this belongs in this thread. Apologies if it doesn't.
Forty days and forty nights- Aus der Tiefe
God forgave my sin- Freely, freely
Jesu lover of my soul- Aberystwyth
Sweet sacrament divine-Divine mysteries
God is working his purpose out- Benson
I’m so used to knowing how to fit the original words in for ‘God is working his purpose out’, that I struggled with the updated version in our book AHON, where there is actually no problem.
Forty days and forty nights- Aus der Tiefe
God forgave my sin- Freely, freely
Jesu lover of my soul- Aberystwyth
Sweet sacrament divine-Divine mysteries
God is working his purpose out- Benson
Sweet Sacrament Divine has a gorgeous tune, it encourages congregations to swoop up the octave.
But the words, oh the words. The RC version has "there in thine ear all trustfully we tell our tale of misery." Its perhaps the worst bit of doggerel I have come across in a hymn. Its news to me that the Blessed Sacrament has ears, and happily I don't have a tale of misery to tell.
I hadn’t come across Sweet sacrament divine before I joined this church. As it was the Communion hymn, the congregation left it to the choir. Fortunately our extra swooping soprano was not there!
I came across it yesterday for the first time - and didn't like it one bit.
It's a great tune for adding extra slushy harmonies, and sends RCs of a certain age straight back to their childhood. But the words are awful, in my opinion. There is a strong vein of "woe is us in this vale of tears" in Victorian RC hymns which is a poor fit with modern sensibilities.
It wasn't the bit about misery which I disliked - it was the way in which it almost seems to deify the sacrament. And yes, I did think it was slushily Victorian!
It wasn't the bit about misery which I disliked - it was the way in which it almost seems to deify the sacrament. And yes, I did think it was slushily Victorian!
AIUI, the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation does, in effect, deify the Sacrament. Whether or not such a doctrine belongs in an Anglican church is another matter...
The hymn itself is a bit slushy, I agree, but it means a great deal to one or two people I know, who have their own tales of misery to tell, but who have derived great comfort from receiving the Blessed Sacrament.
The words may not appeal to you, but there are plenty of people in this world who do have tales of misery to tell.
Whether Jesus, in the Blessed Sacrament or not, actually hears them is quite another matter.
But as the verbal expression of an entire community?
A lot of hymnody fails that test.
Indeed it does. I prefer hymns to be more about Gods saving activity. They give me hope, whereas I find "misery" hymns do the opposite.
But then I prefer hymns that concentrate on "we" and "us," rather than "me."
The words may not appeal to you, but there are plenty of people in this world who do have tales of misery to tell.
Whether Jesus, in the Blessed Sacrament or not, actually hears them is quite another matter.
But as the verbal expression of an entire community?
A lot of hymnody fails that test.
Indeed it does. I prefer hymns to be more about Gods saving activity. They give me hope, whereas I find "misery" hymns do the opposite.
But then I prefer hymns that concentrate on "we" and "us," rather than "me."
Unfortunately I find hymns about "God's saving activity" too theoretical and removed from my day to day existence to be of any meaning to me.
There are some more modern hymns about injustice, environment, society (or whatever) which seem to force everyone into guilt, lament and confession.
Yes there are.
And? There's biblical precedent for that - the book of Lamentations springs to mind.
There are societal injustices, environmental destruction and so on that absolutely should be provoking lamentation and confession.
Provoking them - yes. Forcing us to confess things that we may not individually feel (as yet) - no.
But hymnody does that all the time! If I had a quid for all the feelings expressed in hymns that I don't personally feel I'd be able to fund a trip to the pub after every service.
There are some more modern hymns about injustice, environment, society (or whatever) which seem to force everyone into guilt, lament and confession.
Yes there are.
And? There's biblical precedent for that - the book of Lamentations springs to mind.
There are societal injustices, environmental destruction and so on that absolutely should be provoking lamentation and confession.
Provoking them - yes. Forcing us to confess things that we may not individually feel (as yet) - no.
Or is it more a case of making us think about future choices when it comes to purchasing and voting. And of course one can always just not sing those bits.
Comments
The plus was that it was in a medieval church that is shared by the Church in Wales and the RCs. The chancel really didnt have enough space for the Eucharist to be celebrated easily. It was re-ordered in the 19th century when the pulpit was evidently seen as the main attraction and the altar and the space around it behind the rails was minimal. It being in Wales there was ample space for a choir in the choir stalls. It is listed Grade 1, so they are pretty well stuck with the arrangement - and any alterations would need sensitive discussions between the members of each church. As congregations age and decline I can see this arrangement becoming more common. Not a bad thing in my view.
I'm not sure this belongs in this thread. Apologies if it doesn't.
First Sunday in Lent, Parish Communion
Forty days and forty nights- Aus der Tiefe
God forgave my sin- Freely, freely
Jesu lover of my soul- Aberystwyth
Sweet sacrament divine-Divine mysteries
God is working his purpose out- Benson
Sweet Sacrament Divine has a gorgeous tune, it encourages congregations to swoop up the octave.
But the words, oh the words. The RC version has "there in thine ear all trustfully we tell our tale of misery." Its perhaps the worst bit of doggerel I have come across in a hymn. Its news to me that the Blessed Sacrament has ears, and happily I don't have a tale of misery to tell.
It's a great tune for adding extra slushy harmonies, and sends RCs of a certain age straight back to their childhood. But the words are awful, in my opinion. There is a strong vein of "woe is us in this vale of tears" in Victorian RC hymns which is a poor fit with modern sensibilities.
Whether Jesus, in the Blessed Sacrament or not, actually hears them is quite another matter.
But as the verbal expression of an entire community?
A lot of hymnody fails that test.
AIUI, the Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation does, in effect, deify the Sacrament. Whether or not such a doctrine belongs in an Anglican church is another matter...
The hymn itself is a bit slushy, I agree, but it means a great deal to one or two people I know, who have their own tales of misery to tell, but who have derived great comfort from receiving the Blessed Sacrament.
I myself am one of them.
Indeed it does. I prefer hymns to be more about Gods saving activity. They give me hope, whereas I find "misery" hymns do the opposite.
But then I prefer hymns that concentrate on "we" and "us," rather than "me."
Yes there are.
And? There's biblical precedent for that - the book of Lamentations springs to mind.
There are societal injustices, environmental destruction and so on that absolutely should be provoking lamentation and confession.
Unfortunately I find hymns about "God's saving activity" too theoretical and removed from my day to day existence to be of any meaning to me.
But hymnody does that all the time! If I had a quid for all the feelings expressed in hymns that I don't personally feel I'd be able to fund a trip to the pub after every service.
Or is it more a case of making us think about future choices when it comes to purchasing and voting. And of course one can always just not sing those bits.