Considering how much I love Evensong, I'm another for whom one Mattins goes a long way.
David felt the same way, and when I asked him why, he said it just doesn't have the perfect balance of Evensong, and I can see his point. The Venite adds an extra "bit" that sort of holds things up, and some of the prescribed canticles, while often set to the most excellent music*, are just that bit longer than the Evensong ones, exaggerating the unbalance.
Does that make any sense?
* Stanford in B flat, Howells Coll. Reg., and the Naylor Benedicite spring to mind.
I'm old enough to remember attending what I consider some "classic" Sunday Morning Prayer services at a nearby Episcopal (USA) parish that was the C-Suite at Prayer. Dark suits and perfect white haircuts on all the sidesmen, and some recognizable industry moguls. Most of the women were Mrs. Husband's Name IV or something like that.
Morning Prayer was every other Sunday at the time, without Communion, and it was indeed different from the monthly Choral Evensong. At Morning Prayer, the opening procession was a big deal, with flags. The psalm was said, responsively, by the officiant alternating whole verses with the congregation as we sat. Canticles were to Anglican chants in the hymnal, congregationally. A high point for me was Te Deum to a pair of chants by Crotch and Goss or something. Longish but really good sermon by handsome rector. Really big anthem after the third collect. Thrilling buildup of organ registration leading into the Doxology as a squadron of eight or ten corporate CEOs carried the day's collection to the high altar to be raised triumphantly (and rather cringeworthily). On the other hand, Evensong moved at a slower pace and was definitely choral, with only a hymn or two for the congregation to sing. Dreamy light through stained glass against the stone columns.
I used to love the service of Choral Mattins and am very disappointed that it no longer occurs. I actually see no need for every service to be communion which now seems to be the case. I don't recall Mattins being 'boring' and found it very uplifting.
I used to love the service of Choral Mattins and am very disappointed that it no longer occurs. I actually see no need for every service to be communion which now seems to be the case. I don't recall Mattins being 'boring' and found it very uplifting.
I attended a Choral Mattins in Westminster Abbey and remember being moved to tears by the W.H. Harris Benedicite (it was Advent Sunday). All the various parts of creation joining the whirl of praise carried me away. I did stay for the Abbey Eucharist, of course, and came back for Choral Evensong. During His Majesty's coronation, I kept an eye on the choir stall I sat in for Evensong. It was the stall of the Lord High Commissioner, IIRC.
I used to love the service of Choral Mattins and am very disappointed that it no longer occurs.
Go to St Mary-le-Tower in Ipswich, Suffolk which has it every Sunday.
So they do - much like a number of English cathedrals, but, in the absence of an actual Ipswich Cathedral (!), maybe St Mary-le-Tower fulfils that role.
Our Cathedral has 930am Choral Mattins on most Sundays, but it's the first service to be cancelled if, for example, the main 1030am Eucharist needs to be transferred to an earlier time.
IIRC, the service does not include the long penitential introduction, but begins with O Lord, open thou our lips, and ends with the Grace, after the Third Collect. There is usually an Anthem, and one congregational hymn, though I can't quite remember where the latter occurs.
Again, from memory (and it's been long years since I last went to Mattins), the service - held in the Quire - finishes at 1015am, at which point people are beginning to come into the Nave for the Eucharist.
I suspect that there are people in Ipswich who think that, being the County Town, it ought to have the Cathedral. Some folk in Maidstone might think the same - yet Kent has two other places with cathedrals!
The principal C of E church in Maidstone (All Saints) is certainly big enough to serve as a Cathedral!
I went to their 930am Eucharist one Sunday, hoping for a choral treat, but it was summer, and the choir was at Away™. So were many of the regular congregation, and IIRC even though there must have been 80 or so in the pews, the place felt empty...
Today 82 children from the village primary school ( church foundation) came into church for an hour and a half. As they walked in the choir was singing. Only six of us, but SATB. They were welcomed by our Vicar, who goes into school at least once a week so is well known to the children. The visit was part of their RE curriculum. Our choir leader, who has never been a teacher but is a natural communicator, led most of the session, together with input from a long-standing choir member who used to teach at the school. She wore her robes and dressed one of the girls in a children’s version. A variety of information was conveyed about the building, the choir, the organ, and groups went up into the ringing chamber to see the bells. The children had prepared questions too. All this was interspersed with singing from the children, with only one more piece by the choir. Whilst being an educational visit, it was also very entertaining, with lots of participation, including 3 Gospel songs sung as a round, with actions.
Children were invited, if they wished, to speak with their parents and the school if they want to join the choir. It remains to be seen if any do.
It was a very enjoyable occasion but we have two big reservations.
1. Our choir leader is only temporary, so who will train the children if he does not continue?
2. Our choir only sings traditional choral material, not Gospel or worship songs. There might occasionally be one congregational worship song in a service, apart from the monthly family service which the choir does not attend, but otherwise we are fairly formal.. We all hate action songs with a vengeance( though accept they are ok for children in family services). So maybe today’s visit was misleading.
Children don't have to sing only the stuff that primary school teachers think is age appropriate. Or there would be no cathedral choirs.
Kids love to be stretched and to feel they are doing grown up stuff with the grown ups.
I think action songs etc say more about the adults that pick them than the kids.
Our choir leader’s tenure depends on his wife’s tolerance of lack of family time. He has two other choirs, plays bass guitar in a tribute band, has his own recording studio and business, and currently a huge choral project fund-raising for a prostate cancer charity.
Very broad tastes.
Lord of beauty, thine the splendour - Regent Square Now the green blade riseth - Noel Nouvelet God, you meet us in our weakness - Kingdom Now let us from this table rise - The Truth from Above Love divine, all loves excelling - Blaenwern
Usually on the first Sunday of May, the vicar insists we sing “Mary’s Month of May” (an awful hymn sung to the tune of The Lincolnshire Poacher). We didn’t have it this morning. It may have been an oversight of the vicar, but I didn’t mention it in case he remembers and puts it on the list for next week.
Attendance at Our Place was very sparse this morning - as I've said elsewhere, it's a Ban Collie Day weekend, with lots of Trivial Entertainment Stuff going on around Our Town, so some of the Faithful might have given themselves over to Selfish Pleasure...
We have two services (10am and 730pm) on Thursday - Ascension Day - at both of which I daresay a suitable hymn or two will be sung (probably a capella). I hope my Spy will be able to give me details later this week.
I was surprised at our attendance, as most of our young people, children and leaders are away at an activity weekend. We still had 45 adults and 10 children which was quite good for an ordinary wee church!!
This is the first time I've posted on this particular thread as generally speaking it's the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom every week in Orthodoxy with a few varying troporia or prokeimenon depending on the season or what the theme is in the calendar.
At some point I may post links to some of the Holy Week chants and the Easter material which never fails to 'get' to me each time.
Or, as in the case of the 'Matins of The Bridegroom' for the first time as I'd not done that part of the Easter cycle before.
This year I was given an impromptu whistle-stop tour of the tones and thrown in the deep end with the choir. Sink or swim. Fortunately I swam. I can intone readings and Psalms and was surprised how many of the tomes and melodies I'd absorbed by osmosis.
I can't read a note of music but can hold a tune so now I'm in the choir.
Easter's always special but singing my way through the Good Friday, Holy Saturday and Easter Vigil with the more experienced choir members was both spine-tinglingly memorable and incredibly immersive.
Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of creation! (Lobe Den Herren)
All My Hope On God Is Founded (Michael)
Beneath The Cross Of Jesus (Townend)
In Heavenly Love Abiding (Seasons?)
I promised some links to the kind of thing we sing.
Firstly, this is a spine-tingling version of, 'Behold, the Bridegroom comes at midnight' from the 'Matins of The Bridegroom', which in typical wonky Orthodox upside down fashion is sung in the evening. Vespers move to a morning slot during 'Great Week'. Work that one out.
And a somewhat tinny version of 'Let God Arise' which is sung with gusto during the Easter Vigil. I'm sure there are recordings out there with more bass-notes.
Usually on the first Sunday of May, the vicar insists we sing “Mary’s Month of May” (an awful hymn sung to the tune of The Lincolnshire Poacher). We didn’t have it this morning. It may have been an oversight of the vicar, but I didn’t mention it in case he remembers and puts it on the list for next week.
Happily at our place we observed the principle that everything at Mass has to be addressed to God. So we very rarely have Marian stuff.
As it's the first Sunday of the month, we also had Evensong, at which we sang:
Soul of my Saviour - Anima Christi The Lord's my shepherd - Brother James' Air Love is his word - Cresswell* Round me falls the night - Recessional
Psalm 98 (part of)
* This one had far too many verses; we'd been told at choir practice yesterday that two or three of them would be omitted, but due to a lack of communication among J, who runs the choir, Rev'd Rosie, who was presiding and P, who was playing the organ, the omission didn't happen. It would have been hard to leave out verses in that particular hymn in any event, as the words sort of run from one verse to the next, and the sequence would be broken if you left any of them out. Probably just another example of J's lack of understanding when it comes to picking hymns ...
Am I alone in thinking that a sung Evensong (just chants, no settings of the Canticles) and no sermon really doesn't need four hymns? Isn't one at the start, an Office Hymn and one at the end more than enough?
Like BF's place, we were very thin on the ground this evening - it was literally just the members of the choir.
Am I alone in thinking that a sung Evensong (just chants, no settings of the Canticles) and no sermon really doesn't need four hymns? Isn't one at the start, an Office Hymn and one at the end more than enough?
In my youth, when I was an Anglican, at our village church, Sunday Evensong (BCP), sung as you describe, usually had five hymns added: one at the beginning, (no Office Hymn), one after the Third Collect in place of an anthem (unless there was an anthem, which occurred about four times a year). one after the intercessions (before the sermon), one after the sermon (for the collection), and one after a final prayer and blessing.
Sing we of the blessed Mother (Rustington)
Hail, holy Queen enthroned above (Salve Regina caelitum)
Ye who own the faith of Jesus (Daily, daily)
Sing of Mary, pure and lowly (Chadderton)
Ye watchers and ye holy ones (Lasst uns erfreuen)
Choral:
Marc'Antonio Ingenieri: Missa supra Salve Regina
Giovanni Battista Dulcino: Exivi a Patre
Peter Philips: Ave Maria
Am I alone in thinking that a sung Evensong (just chants, no settings of the Canticles) and no sermon really doesn't need four hymns? Isn't one at the start, an Office Hymn and one at the end more than enough?
In my youth, when I was an Anglican, at our village church, Sunday Evensong (BCP), sung as you describe, usually had five hymns added: one at the beginning, (no Office Hymn), one after the Third Collect in place of an anthem (unless there was an anthem, which occurred about four times a year). one after the intercessions (before the sermon), one after the sermon (for the collection), and one after a final prayer and blessing.
That was the general arrangement at the Tin Tabernacle Of My Youth, where BCP Evensong was the principal service.
As to the hymn Love is his word being rather lengthy, I well remember our officious churchwarden/head server coming to the organ and cantors at the Maundy Thursday Mass (LIHW was the Offertory Hymn) and peremptorily ordering us to stop singing, as the Priest Must Not Be Kept Waiting. There were still 3 or 4 verses to go.
The organist and cantors had Words with the churchwarden later...
Earth And All Stars (EARTH AND ALL STARS)
Alleluia, Alleluia, Give Thanks (ALLELUIA #1)
Come Ye Disconsolate (CONSOLATOR)
Sanctus from Schubert, Deutsche Messe
Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee (ODE TO JOY)
However, I was not there, as I was busy graduating from college, where, at the morning baccalaureate service, the hymns were All Creatures Of Our God And King, and O God Beyond All Praising (THAXTED), and I had the privilege of accompanying my choir when they sang Elaine Hagenberg's excellent "O Love."
Christ is the one who calls (Love Unknown)
God of mercy, God of grace (Heathlands)
Great is thy faithfulness
There is a Redeemer
Lord you give the great commission (Abbot's Leigh)
We were going to have "Love is his word" as the offertory hymn, but there weren't enough of those who knew it to sing it. (I regularly lose my confident singers to other tasks during the Offertory and I always have a back up plan as well as try to pick ones I know well enough to sing along to.)
It would have been hard to leave out verses in that particular hymn in any event, as the words sort of run from one verse to the next, and the sequence would be broken if you left any of them out.
Agreed. But it does get a bit ... tedious. And, theoretically, you could go back to verse 1 and simply keep on going ("Perpetuum mobile").
I spoke too soon. Having thought we’d got away with it, we had it as the Office Hymn at Choral Evensong. However, the choir sang Christ is our Cornerstone by David Thorne as an introit, Dyson in C Minor canticles and the anthem was Litany to the Holy Spirit by Peter Hurford.
and most of them are eucharistic. You need a new hymn picker now - one with a ghost of a liturgical clue.
Ain't that a fact?
My impression these days, is that other than in very High or liturgically-constipated Anglican churches (says he who has no room to talk), there is very little attention given to what fits the theme any more.
In fact, many non-conformist churches such as Baptists and the URC put more care and attention into selecting hymns for particular themes or emphases. Of course, many of the more 'lively' churches of any denomination simply string a few popular worship songs into a medley without any regard for any apparent theme or direction of travel.
Don't get me wrong. I think there's a place for that (as long as it isn't anywhere near me these days) but with a few honourable exceptions (sometimes reflected in the choices posted on these threads from widely differing traditions) the 'craft' of arranging something appropriate for public worship appears to be a dying art.
I won't embarrass them but FWIW it strikes me that many Shipmates here haven't lost that capacity.
Cresswell is a truly awful tune, and there are far too many verses. We used to do that one as the Entrance on Maundy Thursday until I took over picking hymns.
In fact, many non-conformist churches such as Baptists and the URC put more care and attention into selecting hymns for particular themes or emphases.
I spend a lot of time choosing the music - sometimes it's really difficult. The DoM in my last church (with whom I'd whittle down a longlist each week) thought that I was sometimes a bit too pernickety in sticking to my theme.
What I find hard to understand is how, in some churches, hymns are picked many weeks in advance by the DoM. I appreciate they'll look at the Lectionary readings but they won't know what the preacher will say and cannot know what world events may supervene. Conversely a music group shouldn't just put together a string of songs with no reference to those leading the rest of the worship - this can lead to a grating "gear change" halfway through!
As you say, there's a craft to service construction which I try hard to be good at.
Indeed so, and I use them. Nevertheless they can only, by their nature, be "generally" relevant. The sermoniser will, indeed should, reflect current events and concerns in their preparation and this, IMO, will in turn impinge on the choice of hymns.
The practice at Our Place these days is (AFAIK) a monthly or thereabouts meeting between priest, organist, and the lady who acts as cantor, at which music (mostly hymns - we tend to stick to a well-known congregational Mass setting or two) is planned for the next month.
FatherInCharge mostly preaches on the Gospel and/or other readings for the Sunday, and our default hymnbook has a very useful and comprehensive index to help with choosing suitable hymns or songs.
However, I take the point that flexibility is required, especially if something untoward happens in the parish, the town, or the world (IYSWIM). My Spy tells me that there have been one or two occasions when hymns or readings have been changed at the last minute. Current events can. of course, easily be incorporated into the prayers and/or the sermon, even at very short notice.
Be Still for the Presence of the Lord, the Holy One, is here I Love You, Lord, for your mercy never fails me Faithful One, so unchanging Turn your eyes upon Jesus
In fact, many non-conformist churches such as Baptists and the URC put more care and attention into selecting hymns for particular themes or emphases.
I spend a lot of time choosing the music - sometimes it's really difficult. The DoM in my last church (with whom I'd whittle down a longlist each week) thought that I was sometimes a bit too pernickety in sticking to my theme.
What I find hard to understand is how, in some churches, hymns are picked many weeks in advance by the DoM. I appreciate they'll look at the Lectionary readings but they won't know what the preacher will say and cannot know what world events may supervene. Conversely a music group shouldn't just put together a string of songs with no reference to those leading the rest of the worship - this can lead to a grating "gear change" halfway through!
As you say, there's a craft to service construction which I try hard to be good at.
FWIW and take this as a genuine compliment, it's clear to me from this thread and other posts you've made over the years that you are very good at it.
Mind you, if you are concerned about services being planned too far in advance, we Orthodox are operating with services planned hundreds of years in advance ... 😉 *
That's why I've only posted on this thread recently. I had nothing to post until I got behind the choir desk.
Otherwise, it would be a weekly post with 'Liturgy of St John Chrysostom' or 'Liturgy of St Basil' with the odd change of troporia or prokeimenon. Not to be confused with Pokemon ...
* That's not strictly true. There has been some development ...
Being in the country this Sunday is always kept as Rogation Sunday and today, as ever, they processed out of the church singing the Litany to a nearby farm to ask for a blessing on the crops. This is much less common now than it used to be but the Rogation theme was followed to a large degree during the seevice.
Parisn Communion
Litany on the way to the fields
Through the night of doubt and sorrow (St Oswald) on return
For the beauty of the earth (Noricum)
Psalm 65 (chant by Garrett)
Lord in thy name thy servants plead (Belmont)
To thee O God we fly (Gopsal)
Father who dost thy children feed (Stella)
Alleluia Alleluia (Lux Oei)
All rather enthusiastically sung even if some of the tunes were not those I might expect to play. This all seems like a different world from most reports I read 😏
Indeed so, and I use them. Nevertheless they can only, by their nature, be "generally" relevant. The sermoniser will, indeed should, reflect current events and concerns in their preparation and this, IMO, will in turn impinge on the choice of hymns.
We don't have sermons. We have homilies which are meant (mainly) to concentrate on the readings. Current events are for the intercessions.
Indeed so, and I use them. Nevertheless they can only, by their nature, be "generally" relevant. The sermoniser will, indeed should, reflect current events and concerns in their preparation and this, IMO, will in turn impinge on the choice of hymns.
We don't have sermons. We have homilies which are meant (mainly) to concentrate on the readings. Current events are for the intercessions.
What’s the difference? It’s very difficult to preach on the readings without reference to current events
Indeed so, and I use them. Nevertheless they can only, by their nature, be "generally" relevant. The sermoniser will, indeed should, reflect current events and concerns in their preparation and this, IMO, will in turn impinge on the choice of hymns.
We don't have sermons. We have homilies which are meant (mainly) to concentrate on the readings. Current events are for the intercessions.
What’s the difference? It’s very difficult to preach on the readings without reference to current events
Explaining the readings, putting them into context, drawing connections between them and inviting people to apply them to their own lives. And saving current events etc for intercessions.
Comments
I'm old enough to remember attending what I consider some "classic" Sunday Morning Prayer services at a nearby Episcopal (USA) parish that was the C-Suite at Prayer. Dark suits and perfect white haircuts on all the sidesmen, and some recognizable industry moguls. Most of the women were Mrs. Husband's Name IV or something like that.
Morning Prayer was every other Sunday at the time, without Communion, and it was indeed different from the monthly Choral Evensong. At Morning Prayer, the opening procession was a big deal, with flags. The psalm was said, responsively, by the officiant alternating whole verses with the congregation as we sat. Canticles were to Anglican chants in the hymnal, congregationally. A high point for me was Te Deum to a pair of chants by Crotch and Goss or something. Longish but really good sermon by handsome rector. Really big anthem after the third collect. Thrilling buildup of organ registration leading into the Doxology as a squadron of eight or ten corporate CEOs carried the day's collection to the high altar to be raised triumphantly (and rather cringeworthily). On the other hand, Evensong moved at a slower pace and was definitely choral, with only a hymn or two for the congregation to sing. Dreamy light through stained glass against the stone columns.
I attended a Choral Mattins in Westminster Abbey and remember being moved to tears by the W.H. Harris Benedicite (it was Advent Sunday). All the various parts of creation joining the whirl of praise carried me away. I did stay for the Abbey Eucharist, of course, and came back for Choral Evensong. During His Majesty's coronation, I kept an eye on the choir stall I sat in for Evensong. It was the stall of the Lord High Commissioner, IIRC.
So they do - much like a number of English cathedrals, but, in the absence of an actual Ipswich Cathedral (!), maybe St Mary-le-Tower fulfils that role.
Our Cathedral has 930am Choral Mattins on most Sundays, but it's the first service to be cancelled if, for example, the main 1030am Eucharist needs to be transferred to an earlier time.
IIRC, the service does not include the long penitential introduction, but begins with O Lord, open thou our lips, and ends with the Grace, after the Third Collect. There is usually an Anthem, and one congregational hymn, though I can't quite remember where the latter occurs.
Again, from memory (and it's been long years since I last went to Mattins), the service - held in the Quire - finishes at 1015am, at which point people are beginning to come into the Nave for the Eucharist.
Mind you, "The Tower" is the Civic Church.
I went to their 930am Eucharist one Sunday, hoping for a choral treat, but it was summer, and the choir was at Away™. So were many of the regular congregation, and IIRC even though there must have been 80 or so in the pews, the place felt empty...
Children were invited, if they wished, to speak with their parents and the school if they want to join the choir. It remains to be seen if any do.
It was a very enjoyable occasion but we have two big reservations.
1. Our choir leader is only temporary, so who will train the children if he does not continue?
2. Our choir only sings traditional choral material, not Gospel or worship songs. There might occasionally be one congregational worship song in a service, apart from the monthly family service which the choir does not attend, but otherwise we are fairly formal.. We all hate action songs with a vengeance( though accept they are ok for children in family services). So maybe today’s visit was misleading.
Kids love to be stretched and to feel they are doing grown up stuff with the grown ups.
I think action songs etc say more about the adults that pick them than the kids.
Just don't expose the poor innocent kiddies to Shine, Jesus, shine...
As to whether or not the choir leader stays for any length of time, that may well depend on how the choir progresses...
Listen: in this gloomy dreich spring we need any brightness we can get, meteorological or divine.
Very broad tastes.
*Eyes our two Cathedrals* size isn't important.
Lord of beauty, thine the splendour - Regent Square
Now the green blade riseth - Noel Nouvelet
God, you meet us in our weakness - Kingdom
Now let us from this table rise - The Truth from Above
Love divine, all loves excelling - Blaenwern
Jesus lives! thy terrors now (St Albinus)
Love is his word (Cresswell)
A new commandment (anon)
Thine be the glory (Maccabaeus)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEzc5-xikkk
Thank gods for forgetfulness...
I think I've heard it sung to Ellacombe, too.
“Lord, you sometimes speak in wonders” - Stuttgart.
“Thanks to God, whose word was spoken” - Regent Square.
“O Breath of life, come sweeping through us” - Spiritus Vitae.
“All hail the power of Jesus' name!” - Miles Lane.
Attendance at Our Place was very sparse this morning - as I've said elsewhere, it's a Ban Collie Day weekend, with lots of Trivial Entertainment Stuff going on around Our Town, so some of the Faithful might have given themselves over to Selfish Pleasure...
We have two services (10am and 730pm) on Thursday - Ascension Day - at both of which I daresay a suitable hymn or two will be sung (probably a capella). I hope my Spy will be able to give me details later this week.
This is the first time I've posted on this particular thread as generally speaking it's the Liturgy of St John Chrysostom every week in Orthodoxy with a few varying troporia or prokeimenon depending on the season or what the theme is in the calendar.
At some point I may post links to some of the Holy Week chants and the Easter material which never fails to 'get' to me each time.
Or, as in the case of the 'Matins of The Bridegroom' for the first time as I'd not done that part of the Easter cycle before.
This year I was given an impromptu whistle-stop tour of the tones and thrown in the deep end with the choir. Sink or swim. Fortunately I swam. I can intone readings and Psalms and was surprised how many of the tomes and melodies I'd absorbed by osmosis.
I can't read a note of music but can hold a tune so now I'm in the choir.
Easter's always special but singing my way through the Good Friday, Holy Saturday and Easter Vigil with the more experienced choir members was both spine-tinglingly memorable and incredibly immersive.
Other traditions will have their equivalents.
All My Hope On God Is Founded (Michael)
Beneath The Cross Of Jesus (Townend)
In Heavenly Love Abiding (Seasons?)
Firstly, this is a spine-tingling version of, 'Behold, the Bridegroom comes at midnight' from the 'Matins of The Bridegroom', which in typical wonky Orthodox upside down fashion is sung in the evening. Vespers move to a morning slot during 'Great Week'. Work that one out.
Nevertheless ...
https://youtu.be/gkW3MSGm4-E?si
And this is a rather prettier and lighter version of what we customarily sing when people line up to receive communion.
https://youtu.be/BZlue3jGlVU?si=dS13YxyIImpn2Mst
And a somewhat tinny version of 'Let God Arise' which is sung with gusto during the Easter Vigil. I'm sure there are recordings out there with more bass-notes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWjF5Q-vz0g
Anyhow, there's a flavour of it at least.
(I don't know how to do the short link thing. Perhaps a kindly host will oblige?)
Happily at our place we observed the principle that everything at Mass has to be addressed to God. So we very rarely have Marian stuff.
Soul of my Saviour - Anima Christi
The Lord's my shepherd - Brother James' Air
Love is his word - Cresswell*
Round me falls the night - Recessional
Psalm 98 (part of)
* This one had far too many verses; we'd been told at choir practice yesterday that two or three of them would be omitted, but due to a lack of communication among J, who runs the choir, Rev'd Rosie, who was presiding and P, who was playing the organ, the omission didn't happen. It would have been hard to leave out verses in that particular hymn in any event, as the words sort of run from one verse to the next, and the sequence would be broken if you left any of them out. Probably just another example of J's lack of understanding when it comes to picking hymns ...
Am I alone in thinking that a sung Evensong (just chants, no settings of the Canticles) and no sermon really doesn't need four hymns? Isn't one at the start, an Office Hymn and one at the end more than enough?
Like BF's place, we were very thin on the ground this evening - it was literally just the members of the choir.
In my youth, when I was an Anglican, at our village church, Sunday Evensong (BCP), sung as you describe, usually had five hymns added: one at the beginning, (no Office Hymn), one after the Third Collect in place of an anthem (unless there was an anthem, which occurred about four times a year). one after the intercessions (before the sermon), one after the sermon (for the collection), and one after a final prayer and blessing.
Sing we of the blessed Mother (Rustington)
Hail, holy Queen enthroned above (Salve Regina caelitum)
Ye who own the faith of Jesus (Daily, daily)
Sing of Mary, pure and lowly (Chadderton)
Ye watchers and ye holy ones (Lasst uns erfreuen)
Choral:
Marc'Antonio Ingenieri: Missa supra Salve Regina
Giovanni Battista Dulcino: Exivi a Patre
Peter Philips: Ave Maria
That was the general arrangement at the Tin Tabernacle Of My Youth, where BCP Evensong was the principal service.
As to the hymn Love is his word being rather lengthy, I well remember our officious churchwarden/head server coming to the organ and cantors at the Maundy Thursday Mass (LIHW was the Offertory Hymn) and peremptorily ordering us to stop singing, as the Priest Must Not Be Kept Waiting. There were still 3 or 4 verses to go.
The organist and cantors had Words with the churchwarden later...
Earth And All Stars (EARTH AND ALL STARS)
Alleluia, Alleluia, Give Thanks (ALLELUIA #1)
Come Ye Disconsolate (CONSOLATOR)
Sanctus from Schubert, Deutsche Messe
Joyful, Joyful We Adore Thee (ODE TO JOY)
However, I was not there, as I was busy graduating from college, where, at the morning baccalaureate service, the hymns were All Creatures Of Our God And King, and O God Beyond All Praising (THAXTED), and I had the privilege of accompanying my choir when they sang Elaine Hagenberg's excellent "O Love."
God of mercy, God of grace (Heathlands)
Great is thy faithfulness
There is a Redeemer
Lord you give the great commission (Abbot's Leigh)
We were going to have "Love is his word" as the offertory hymn, but there weren't enough of those who knew it to sing it. (I regularly lose my confident singers to other tasks during the Offertory and I always have a back up plan as well as try to pick ones I know well enough to sing along to.)
Agreed. But it does get a bit ... tedious. And, theoretically, you could go back to verse 1 and simply keep on going ("Perpetuum mobile").
I spoke too soon. Having thought we’d got away with it, we had it as the Office Hymn at Choral Evensong. However, the choir sang Christ is our Cornerstone by David Thorne as an introit, Dyson in C Minor canticles and the anthem was Litany to the Holy Spirit by Peter Hurford.
Ain't that a fact?
My impression these days, is that other than in very High or liturgically-constipated Anglican churches (says he who has no room to talk), there is very little attention given to what fits the theme any more.
In fact, many non-conformist churches such as Baptists and the URC put more care and attention into selecting hymns for particular themes or emphases. Of course, many of the more 'lively' churches of any denomination simply string a few popular worship songs into a medley without any regard for any apparent theme or direction of travel.
Don't get me wrong. I think there's a place for that (as long as it isn't anywhere near me these days) but with a few honourable exceptions (sometimes reflected in the choices posted on these threads from widely differing traditions) the 'craft' of arranging something appropriate for public worship appears to be a dying art.
I won't embarrass them but FWIW it strikes me that many Shipmates here haven't lost that capacity.
I think they're fine left as they are - they are not too long and you have helpfully described what they are.
I will post how I do the short link thing in Styx.
Nenya - Ecclesiantics Host
What I find hard to understand is how, in some churches, hymns are picked many weeks in advance by the DoM. I appreciate they'll look at the Lectionary readings but they won't know what the preacher will say and cannot know what world events may supervene. Conversely a music group shouldn't just put together a string of songs with no reference to those leading the rest of the worship - this can lead to a grating "gear change" halfway through!
As you say, there's a craft to service construction which I try hard to be good at.
FatherInCharge mostly preaches on the Gospel and/or other readings for the Sunday, and our default hymnbook has a very useful and comprehensive index to help with choosing suitable hymns or songs.
However, I take the point that flexibility is required, especially if something untoward happens in the parish, the town, or the world (IYSWIM). My Spy tells me that there have been one or two occasions when hymns or readings have been changed at the last minute. Current events can. of course, easily be incorporated into the prayers and/or the sermon, even at very short notice.
Be Still for the Presence of the Lord, the Holy One, is here
I Love You, Lord, for your mercy never fails me
Faithful One, so unchanging
Turn your eyes upon Jesus
FWIW and take this as a genuine compliment, it's clear to me from this thread and other posts you've made over the years that you are very good at it.
Mind you, if you are concerned about services being planned too far in advance, we Orthodox are operating with services planned hundreds of years in advance ... 😉 *
That's why I've only posted on this thread recently. I had nothing to post until I got behind the choir desk.
Otherwise, it would be a weekly post with 'Liturgy of St John Chrysostom' or 'Liturgy of St Basil' with the odd change of troporia or prokeimenon. Not to be confused with Pokemon ...
* That's not strictly true. There has been some development ...
Being in the country this Sunday is always kept as Rogation Sunday and today, as ever, they processed out of the church singing the Litany to a nearby farm to ask for a blessing on the crops. This is much less common now than it used to be but the Rogation theme was followed to a large degree during the seevice.
Parisn Communion
Litany on the way to the fields
Through the night of doubt and sorrow (St Oswald) on return
For the beauty of the earth (Noricum)
Psalm 65 (chant by Garrett)
Lord in thy name thy servants plead (Belmont)
To thee O God we fly (Gopsal)
Father who dost thy children feed (Stella)
Alleluia Alleluia (Lux Oei)
All rather enthusiastically sung even if some of the tunes were not those I might expect to play. This all seems like a different world from most reports I read 😏
We don't have sermons. We have homilies which are meant (mainly) to concentrate on the readings. Current events are for the intercessions.
What’s the difference? It’s very difficult to preach on the readings without reference to current events
Explaining the readings, putting them into context, drawing connections between them and inviting people to apply them to their own lives. And saving current events etc for intercessions.